David Jaffe is completely right about turning Kratos into someone he never was meant to be

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Warm_Gun

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#1 Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts

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SolidGame_basic

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#2  Edited By SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 45660 Posts

Um... pretty sure the new Kratos received tons of praise and the new God of War games are extremely successful.

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Gifford38

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#3 Gifford38
Member since 2020 • 7351 Posts

Kratos best video game character of all time. New and old. 100 percent better than Mario and master chief. Mario games are great but the character lmao.

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#4 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56593 Posts

I'm sorry but the angry Kratos got really boring and he tried way too hard to not care about anything but at least I felt sorry for him after God of War 3. Seeing Kratos showing no anger and a bit of Humanity in him made the character more Human as it shows Kratos is getting old and more self-aware is what the 2018 needed and he was massive well receive as God of War 2018 did won GOTY over RDR2.

Glad Santa Monica made great changes to the character, him being angry just got old fast.

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hardwenzen

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#5  Edited By hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 40132 Posts

I didn't watch the video, but i will, i am kinda interested to see his view. But i gotta say, the gow2018 kratos was amazing. Loved him from the very beginning until the very end. What he became in Ragnarok is NOT Kratos. He is a superhero now, and that's complete dogshit. The guy writing Ragnarok should gtfo from writing the story.

edit: watched it, and i agree with his statement, and it looks like he too loved gow2018 but not ragnarok.

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Willy105

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#6  Edited By Willy105
Member since 2005 • 26128 Posts

Turning a murderous god into a father that has to teach morality to his boy is literally what made Kratos a good character.

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deactivated-65dd04f21decf

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#7 deactivated-65dd04f21decf
Member since 2022 • 3769 Posts

Didn't like him before, don't like him now. Dumbass war god loser.

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SargentD

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#8 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8503 Posts

I agree with him. New Kratos sucks.

Kratos 1-3 way cooler

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Chutebox

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#9 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50743 Posts

Heh, wish there was a middle ground between the two versions. OG was too mad too much, new one wasn't mad enough.

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Archangel3371

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#10 Archangel3371  Online
Member since 2004 • 44760 Posts

Eh. I would say new Kratos is definitely better then old Kratos although he’s still pretty far down my list of good characters.

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Pedro

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#11 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70825 Posts

God of War was great and ended.

God of War 2 was a fantastic game that was crippled with an asinine story.

God of War 3 continued the stupidity. (Stop caring after this tripe)

God of War 2018 was a solid game and attempted to redeem Kratos but they already wrote a shitty character

God of War Ragnorak, I played for 1 hour but they did too much of the following with a story I didn't care for

Open your mouth
Open your mouth

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Life-is-a-Game

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#12 Life-is-a-Game
Member since 2005 • 970 Posts

@hardwenzen said:

I didn't watch the video, but i will, i am kinda interested to see his view. But i gotta say, the gow2018 kratos was amazing. Loved him from the very beginning until the very end. What he became in Ragnarok is NOT Kratos. He is a superhero now, and that's complete dogshit. The guy writing Ragnarok should gtfo from writing the story.

edit: watched it, and i agree with his statement, and it looks like he too loved gow2018 but not ragnarok.

Exactly. Ragnarok was basically a Disney movie. I love all GoW games except for the last one.

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BassMan

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#13  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17977 Posts

I love the old Kratos who was a raging bad ass and I prefer the old style of games to the new style. However, I will admit they handled the character well with the new direction they took and I do enjoy the new games too.

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rmpumper

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#14  Edited By rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2161 Posts

Who cares what some has-been has to say? The numbers show that the new Kratos is more popular with current gamers, and that's the only metric that matters.

How would keeping the character the same for decades benefit anyone (both devs and gamers)? The IP would just die from staleness.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#15 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 11282 Posts

Oh no, Kratos actually got some character growth. How horrible!

Sorry, Jaffe. You abandoned video games to go yell at clouds. They moved on.

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Warm_Gun

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#16 Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts

@rmpumper: That's why they should have rebooted it with a new protagonist in a new pantheon. What they chose to do instead is so pretentious and conceited.

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Vaasman

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#17  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15615 Posts

Famed director of Drawn to Death and nothing since, David Jaffe, is mad that they gave his character character.

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freedomfreak

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#18 freedomfreak
Member since 2004 • 52452 Posts

Was fine. Went overboard in Ragnarok. It's why I prefer nu-metal Kratos. Those games also have gameplay.

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dimebag667

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#19 dimebag667
Member since 2003 • 3156 Posts

They did a good job humanizing Kratos in the newer ones, but my problem is I don't want to humanize the God of War. I want over-the-top hyper violence with that character, not life lessons. But even saying that, he had plenty of moments in the old games that showed remorse, pain and torment for the choices he made. Maybe that would've worn thin over time, but I still prefer the first three games.

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Warm_Gun

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#20  Edited By Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts

Good comments.

"Since I don't see this posed. I think it's relevant. One of the og creators of GoW doesn't like what the new God of Wars are, he doesn't like the fact that Kratos is the writers self-insert and they broke the lore to do whatever the **** they want without respecting the ground rules of the franchise. And you can see the respect he is getting from the wankers in the comments section.

"As long as it personally please them, people are fucking cunts, they'll take everything and change it to whatever the **** they want it to be.

"Nothing is sacred."

"He has a point but he formulates in a very shaky way. He talks about franchises and character growth but none of those really apply to Kratos or God of War. Its the right point presented in the wrong way.

"Kratos as a character stood out and was interesting to follow even in the first game because he was so distinctly not a hero, not a father and definitely not a role model. Kratos is the product of a classic greek tragedy, a man who is no longer a man but a monster. So as far as videogames a extremely non-standard protagonist, borderline a antagonist(borderline because of the convenience of pandora's box).

"Modern Kratos is just a slightly less friendly protagonist number 547. He is essentially an extra in his own game as you could easily replace him with any other "Dad character" from the last 10 years and it would make barely any difference. The original games could not exist without Kratos, there was no swapping him for Dante or Bayonetta and the game still being the same but you absolutely can swap Baerdos for Joel or Corvo or even big Daddy and it would basically only affect the aesthetics."

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R4gn4r0k

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#21 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@gifford38 said:

Kratos best video game character of all time. New and old. 100 percent better than Mario and master chief. Mario games are great but the character lmao.

I agree, I love both the old and new Kratos.

I would never have thought I would've enjoyed "woodcutter axe" nu-Kratos but I totally ended up loving him.

Both in his cold hearted 2018 role as his more emotional 2022 rendition.

It seems like all David Jaffe does is make irate videos about modern games and reminiscing about the past.

He's a washed-up loser. Rather go out in a burning flame than end up like him. What a shame.

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#22 Litchie  Online
Member since 2003 • 34838 Posts

He's probably right. Tried playing the 2018 game, but the first two hours was a movie, so I uninstalled it.

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palasta

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#23 palasta
Member since 2017 • 1410 Posts

We are living in woke-times. No place for a raging, intercoursing demigod. Although GoW2018 still feels like a natural evolution of the character. I mean, Kratos was a 'family man' before.

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#24  Edited By Lavamelon
Member since 2016 • 900 Posts

Are the new Kratos and old Kratos two seperate characters? I keep hearing that the new GoW is a “soft reboot” of the classic GoW games, whatever that is supposed to mean?

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#25 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@lavamelon said:

Are the new Kratos and old Kratos two seperate characters? I keep hearing that the new GoW is a “soft reboot” of the classic GoW games, whatever that is supposed to mean?

Old Kratos was always angry, voiced by TC Carson

New Kratos is more fleshed out, has a wider range of emotions, has a son and deep intellectual relationships, voiced by Christopher Judge

He is still the same character, it's just a rebooted character, as you say.

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#26 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 23163 Posts

I was only partially interested in Jaffes God of War... I find the new god of war to be totally epic. I enjoy his tempered rage.... He's more stoic and relatable.

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TheEroica

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#27  Edited By TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 23163 Posts
@lavamelon said:

Are the new Kratos and old Kratos two seperate characters? I keep hearing that the new GoW is a “soft reboot” of the classic GoW games, whatever that is supposed to mean?

Dude, please go play the game. You're gonna ruin an amazing ending if you keep asking questions. Truly one of the better endings to an action game in a very long time. Go play the first game (2018) and ask no more questions boy...

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#28  Edited By Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49615 Posts

The 2018 God of War was definitely a snooze-fest for me, so I'm inclined to agree. I think I put in about a couple hours into it and just got bored.

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#29  Edited By Fairmonkey
Member since 2011 • 2316 Posts

Older god of war games were more fun

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uninspiredcup

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#30  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59546 Posts

He shot himself in the foot with his Indiana Jones argument. Last Crusade is about Indy and his father. That's like, the entire point of the movie, you idiot.

Loading Video...

Clip from Indie movie nobody has ever seen.

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#31  Edited By my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 1293 Posts

RIP Kratos 2005- 2016.

Dad of Boy is targeted at "gamers" who were too machur to give it a shit about the hobby in the good ol days.

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#32  Edited By Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

He shot himself in the foot with his Indiana Jones argument. Last Crusade is about Indy and his father. That's like, the entire point of the movie, you idiot.

Loading Video...

Clip from Indie movie nobody has ever seen.

He shot himself in the foot when he implied that The Last Crusade is good. The Indiana Jones series is Raiders and Doom. And yes, making Indi more of a character and explaining how he became what he is certainly was one of the things that sucked about Last Crusade. He never needed a dog and a father.

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#33  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59546 Posts
@warm_gun said:
@uninspiredcup said:

He shot himself in the foot with his Indiana Jones argument. Last Crusade is about Indy and his father. That's like, the entire point of the movie, you idiot.

Loading Video...

Clip from Indie movie nobody has ever seen.

He shot himself in the foot when he implied that The Last Crusade is good. The Indiana Jones series is Raiders and Doom. And yes, making Indi more of a character certainly was one of the things that sucked about Last Crusade. He never needed a dog and a father.

You're arguing subjective stuff.

Was arguing objective stuff. He doesn't understand a basic thing of the movie a child can comprehend.

He's completely free not to not like this or that, likewise with yourself, but he lacks the comprehension ability of a literal child.

Overall, I hate Jaffe Cake. And actively wish ill upon him.

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Warm_Gun

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#34  Edited By Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts

Oh, I remembered the third one. A father, a dog and a childhood. So The Last Crusade is kind of like new God of War in that respect, degrading the character by making him more (quoting the video title) personal.

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#35 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59546 Posts

@warm_gun said:

Oh, I remembered the third one. A father, a dog and a childhood. So The Last Crusade is kind of like new God of War in that respect, degrading the character by making him more (quoting the video title) personal.

That's the first time in the history of man i've heard anyone make this argument. But again, you're free to like what you like.

Not what I was arguing, and if we take you're comment here as some fact, then it makes him look even more dim.

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PSP107

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#36 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18841 Posts

@davillain: "made the character more Human"

Thought he was a god?

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#37 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17903 Posts

Overall ive only played the series a little bit. Some 1 and 3 (which i still have floating around somewhere). I have also just started into 2018.

But so far the 2018 version looks like a tired version of the original which is a fairly natural evolution i think. He ran out of rage a bit. I even chuckled at one of his lines regarding the direction of deer :P.

There is only so much "Tearing the world apart cause Grr....do stupid stuff cause grrrrr.....the consequences of my stupidity are not severe enough due to my SHEER AMOUNT OF GRRRRR!!!!" before it gets real boring. It's a good gag but 3 games is more than enough.

As for the styles of gameplay: As I say, I have only really started into 2018 so i'm not really going to compare them yet. I can see why some would have a preference for the older style though.

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#38 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56593 Posts

@PSP107: Oh, how did you guess?

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#39  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19728 Posts

Never liked the old Kratos anyway. He's a very shallow character and a psychopathic scumbag. There's nothing "cool" or "badass" about murdering innocent people or sleeping with prostitutes. He might be "cool" or "badass" to teenage boys, but just comes off cringe to adults. That's why they changed Kratos as his teenage fans grew up into adults.

So yeah, the new Kratos is an infinitely better character than the old Kratos. Not because the new Kratos is a great character or anything, but simply because of how terrible the old Kratos was.

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#40 onesiphorus
Member since 2014 • 5308 Posts

@PSP107 said:

@davillain: "made the character more Human"

Thought he was a god?

Kratos is actually a demi-god, who is part divine (from his father Zeus) and part human (from his human mother).

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#41  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41611 Posts

@davillain said:

I'm sorry but the angry Kratos got really boring and he tried way too hard to not care about anything but at least I felt sorry for him after God of War 3. Seeing Kratos showing no anger and a bit of Humanity in him made the character more Human as it shows Kratos is getting old and more self-aware is what the 2018 needed and he was massive well receive as God of War 2018 did won GOTY over RDR2.

Glad Santa Monica made great changes to the character, him being angry just got old fast.

Same. Like old Kratos was typical 2000s "edge", same way emo Prince of Persia and anti-Sonic with guns were born...

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#42  Edited By ___gamemaster__
Member since 2009 • 3359 Posts

Young kratos is cool and all but it gets abit boring. There is no way old gow can compare to games like dmc and bayo. The reboot is a much needed for the franchise.

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Warm_Gun

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#43  Edited By Warm_Gun
Member since 2021 • 2539 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Of course what I said is fact. You don't "humanize" an adventure serial hero. He must stay simple, like the protagonists of the stories he is inspired by. The first two Indiana Jones movies got that right. Many people share my view. The Last Crusade and new God of War are both snoozers. "Deepening" the protagonist is how they messed up James Bond, in part anyway. Sore about Vesper, whom he knew for a few days, even three movies later, Jesus. Jaffe is right in essence, but the way he argued it is somewhat flawed.

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#44 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8503 Posts
@R4gn4r0k said:
@lavamelon said:

Are the new Kratos and old Kratos two seperate characters? I keep hearing that the new GoW is a “soft reboot” of the classic GoW games, whatever that is supposed to mean?

Old Kratos was always angry, voiced by TC Carson

New Kratos is more fleshed out, has a wider range of emotions, has a son and deep intellectual relationships, voiced by Christopher Judge

He is still the same character, it's just a rebooted character, as you say.

They aren't the same tho, the only thing similar is that they call him Kratos but it's like 2 completely different people.

Old one was a super pissed off roid raged demi God that only enjoyed slaughtering demons, scaling huge beats, and banging broads, ripping peoples heads off, and was willing to do what ever it took to get his revenge, everyone else be damned, because he was tricked by the God of War to murder his own family, and hes super pissed off about that.

New one is sensitive old man who's raising his son and no longer can jump.

He's harvest materials with his boy in the woods, teach him how to hunt animals.

It's a totally different guy and vibe. People can say it's more serious and stuff, but that's only because it's trying to be a drama when the original 3 games were strictly action.

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#45  Edited By Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 7041 Posts

The character is generic/boring. But at least the older games didn't have you babysitting a kid.

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#46 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@sargentd said:
@R4gn4r0k said:
@lavamelon said:

Are the new Kratos and old Kratos two seperate characters? I keep hearing that the new GoW is a “soft reboot” of the classic GoW games, whatever that is supposed to mean?

Old Kratos was always angry, voiced by TC Carson

New Kratos is more fleshed out, has a wider range of emotions, has a son and deep intellectual relationships, voiced by Christopher Judge

He is still the same character, it's just a rebooted character, as you say.

They aren't the same tho, the only thing similar is that they call him Kratos but it's like 2 completely different people.

Old one was a super pissed off roid raged demi God that only enjoyed slaughtering demons, scaling huge beats, and banging broads, ripping peoples heads off, and was willing to do what ever it took to get his revenge, everyone else be damned, because he was tricked by the God of War to murder his own family, and hes super pissed off about that.

New one is sensitive old man who's raising his son and no longer can jump.

He's harvest materials with his boy in the woods, teach him how to hunt animals.

It's a totally different guy and vibe. People can say it's more serious and stuff, but that's only because it's trying to be a drama when the original 3 games were strictly action.

Calling them completely different is bonkers.

That's like saying Ellie in TLOU 1 is completely different from Ellie in TLOU 2.

Let's see, he's lost the ability to jump(white men can't jump anyway, so...)

  • He got older and more protective of his family after already losing it once
  • He still beats up and destroys gods and large monsters
  • There are constant references to his old life and many of his new actions are inspired by the old.

Just because Resident evil switched from a fixed cam to behind the shoulders doesn't make them drastically different games. Nor is this true for God of War.

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#47  Edited By Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

Kratos is top 3 best videogame character. of all time.. New Kratos > Old Kratos

  1. Solid Snake
  2. Arthur Morgan
  3. Kratos
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#48 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 11293 Posts

@R4gn4r0k: Thank god Kratos can't jump in the GoW. Would be completely goofy and less grounded / immersive / engaging.

Roll/dodge is much better.

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#49 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46767 Posts

@Mozelleple112 said:

@R4gn4r0k: Thank god Kratos can't jump in the GoW. Would be completely goofy and less grounded / immersive / engaging.

Roll/dodge is much better.

Realistic jumps are the worst. Have you seen how high Nathan Drake can jump when standing idle?

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#50  Edited By PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18841 Posts

@davillain said:

@PSP107: Oh, how did you guess?

That he was able to take on other gods.

@onesiphorus said:
@PSP107 said:

@davillain: "made the character more Human"

Thought he was a god?

Kratos is actually a demi-god, who is part divine (from his father Zeus) and part human (from his human mother).

So he's more divine than human since the father was?