Dark Souls 2: "Other Take" Review. 5/10

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#101 Edited by silversix_ (26347 posts) -

@AznbkdX said:

@silversix_ said:

@AznbkdX said:

If there is one thing I could agree on with DS when it comes to the haters... its the way they explain (or don't explain) certain things. A lot of it is very touch and go which is cool but definitely kind of annoying when you are new to the series (I started on DS1 personally, but I had some slight issues). They do teach you the very basics: attack, dodge, run, shield, but when it comes to items and what they do, resistances, stats and what they do, and all those weapon rankings from stats, you are pretty much in the dark. Some are very cut and dry on what they do, but then a lot of it is just stuff that can be fairly vague on description (wtf is humanity, invasions, covenants, etc.). There is a crap ton of stat modifiers (not just faith, strength, etc. but the big list of stuff they increase for each point) but you have very little clue what the symbols mean for a lot of it at first. After awhile you figure out what stuff does, but not without having to read about it first, or getting killed a few times due to inexperience.

I guess that is why some people like it, but it's also why I think it will always remain niche.

For once a none casual bs rpg with three stats -Vitality -Mana and -Damage. If The Souls series was as simplified i bet the majority of vets would quit simply because you'd try every build possible in under a week n then what? Instead we have tones of shit to try and this adds TONES of longevity.

Oh I do agree on that. I'm not entirely sure they are doing a great job in spelling that out though. They could have done a little bit more explanation on that tons of shit to try is all. Not everything has to be annoying or hard to understand just because the game is difficult at times.

One example I can make is the first covenant you usually run into in DS2 is that Champions one in Majula. Most would take it, but of course there is very little reason not to since it doesn't tell you that it makes everything slightly harder. It sort of implies it, but doesn't tell you anything else beyond that, so most newcomers to the series would take it just because they think something will happen with it later.

If some1 doesn't understand English that'd be a good excuse but come on now, there's nothing cryptic in the messaging.

Avatar image for AznbkdX
#102 Edited by AznbkdX (4179 posts) -

@silversix_ said:

@AznbkdX said:

@silversix_ said:

@AznbkdX said:

If there is one thing I could agree on with DS when it comes to the haters... its the way they explain (or don't explain) certain things. A lot of it is very touch and go which is cool but definitely kind of annoying when you are new to the series (I started on DS1 personally, but I had some slight issues). They do teach you the very basics: attack, dodge, run, shield, but when it comes to items and what they do, resistances, stats and what they do, and all those weapon rankings from stats, you are pretty much in the dark. Some are very cut and dry on what they do, but then a lot of it is just stuff that can be fairly vague on description (wtf is humanity, invasions, covenants, etc.). There is a crap ton of stat modifiers (not just faith, strength, etc. but the big list of stuff they increase for each point) but you have very little clue what the symbols mean for a lot of it at first. After awhile you figure out what stuff does, but not without having to read about it first, or getting killed a few times due to inexperience.

I guess that is why some people like it, but it's also why I think it will always remain niche.

For once a none casual bs rpg with three stats -Vitality -Mana and -Damage. If The Souls series was as simplified i bet the majority of vets would quit simply because you'd try every build possible in under a week n then what? Instead we have tones of shit to try and this adds TONES of longevity.

Oh I do agree on that. I'm not entirely sure they are doing a great job in spelling that out though. They could have done a little bit more explanation on that tons of shit to try is all. Not everything has to be annoying or hard to understand just because the game is difficult at times.

One example I can make is the first covenant you usually run into in DS2 is that Champions one in Majula. Most would take it, but of course there is very little reason not to since it doesn't tell you that it makes everything slightly harder. It sort of implies it, but doesn't tell you anything else beyond that, so most newcomers to the series would take it just because they think something will happen with it later.

If some1 doesn't understand English that'd be a good excuse but come on now, there's nothing cryptic in the messaging.

That's pretty cryptic man. It said it sets you down an arduous path, but it doesn't even give you any clue on how or what it will do at all. Iirc what it does is makes enemies hit harder and summons not work or something like that. Do you honestly think that anyone would think that if they took it? Or even if they did, would they know enough about covenants to understand how they work?

Hell... I would take it just because it sounds cool. Even if it says arduous path, most newbies may think that it is just how the game likes to do things when it comes to covenants.

Avatar image for uninspiredcup
#103 Edited by uninspiredcup (24920 posts) -

The reviewer would have it to the point that it's stripped of any thinking, mystery or sense of wonder in order to accommodate the stupid and/or lazy.

Avatar image for Pffrbt
#104 Edited by Pffrbt (6612 posts) -

@AznbkdX said:

That's pretty cryptic man. It said it sets you down an arduous path, but it doesn't tell you how or what it will do at all. Iirc what it does is makes enemies hit harder and summons not work or something like that. Do you honestly think that anyone would think that if they took it?

The implication that it makes the game more difficult is pretty clear.

Avatar image for Krelian-co
#105 Edited by Krelian-co (13274 posts) -

Gamespot never fails to impress me with reviews, just look at the negatives, LOL, what a joke gamespot is.

Avatar image for princeofshapeir
#106 Posted by princeofshapeir (16593 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

That's pretty cryptic man. It said it sets you down an arduous path, but it doesn't tell you how or what it will do at all. Iirc what it does is makes enemies hit harder and summons not work or something like that. Do you honestly think that anyone would think that if they took it?

The implication that it makes the game more difficult is pretty clear.

I admit I joined this covenant by mistake when I first started. But when I was in human form and noticed there weren't any player summon signs appearing behind boss fogs I realized something was wrong. This was also the first day of the PC release so there weren't any messages on the ground, but in hindsight the game's warning should have been enough.

Avatar image for nvidiaking
#107 Posted by NVIDIAking (34 posts) -

GS further proves how much of a joke their reviews are.

Avatar image for AznbkdX
#108 Edited by AznbkdX (4179 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

That's pretty cryptic man. It said it sets you down an arduous path, but it doesn't tell you how or what it will do at all. Iirc what it does is makes enemies hit harder and summons not work or something like that. Do you honestly think that anyone would think that if they took it?

The implication that it makes the game more difficult is pretty clear.

Yes that could be implied like I said, but all in all I'm trying to say that the game doesn't explain things well enough. You have to imply that, and as for its features as evidence from prince you have to have known about summons to begin with (also very unclear in the game, but at least its easy to know how it works since a guy helping you=not much more to be said in a game like this). As a probable aside, a newbie probably could have been hollowfied coming to Majula (fighting one of those big orcs will probably do it, and we all know we fought that one big guy in the beginning in both DS1 and 2 as beginners) and may not have seen a summon in his life. This certainly isn't helping him. Iirc it even increases damage but you would not have known that either without literally going to a place getting hit, doing the covenant, then coming back and getting hit again by the same kind of enemy.

"Arduous path" could mean anything in games. Maybe it is an event somewhere in the game? Maybe it is something that is just wording for a covenant in general? Maybe a secret will show up somewhere and you have to fight tough guys to get to it? I mean seriously... the whole game is filled with stuff like this.

Hell this was just one of the examples I remembered. I already went through a laundry list of them that are not nearly as easy to think about.

Avatar image for Pffrbt
#109 Edited by Pffrbt (6612 posts) -

@AznbkdX said:

"Arduous path" could mean anything in games.

It means it makes the game more difficult. There's no other way to interpret it.

Avatar image for AznbkdX
#110 Edited by AznbkdX (4179 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

"Arduous path" could mean anything in games.

It means it makes the game more difficult. There's no other way to interpret it.

Overall yes. But in what way?

That's the point I've been trying to make. What does it do to make it harder? Why must I try to guess at it? Why couldn't they say anything about "enemies have more brawn" or something DSey like that? If you read my questions you would know I'm trying to find out what it is, not that it is just more difficult.

I guess that means what I said about implying things isn't entirely correct at the beginning of my argument since no matter what "path" would probably indicate that it will get harder and maybe things will change for the worst at some point or time, but that is really not the argument I'm trying to make.

Avatar image for Pffrbt
#111 Edited by Pffrbt (6612 posts) -

@AznbkdX said:

Overall yes. But in what way?

I don't see why it'd matter if it told you in what way. Either you want the game more difficult or you don't.

Avatar image for tubbyc
#112 Edited by tubbyc (3893 posts) -

@silversix_ said:

@AznbkdX said:

@silversix_ said:

@AznbkdX said:

If there is one thing I could agree on with DS when it comes to the haters... its the way they explain (or don't explain) certain things. A lot of it is very touch and go which is cool but definitely kind of annoying when you are new to the series (I started on DS1 personally, but I had some slight issues). They do teach you the very basics: attack, dodge, run, shield, but when it comes to items and what they do, resistances, stats and what they do, and all those weapon rankings from stats, you are pretty much in the dark. Some are very cut and dry on what they do, but then a lot of it is just stuff that can be fairly vague on description (wtf is humanity, invasions, covenants, etc.). There is a crap ton of stat modifiers (not just faith, strength, etc. but the big list of stuff they increase for each point) but you have very little clue what the symbols mean for a lot of it at first. After awhile you figure out what stuff does, but not without having to read about it first, or getting killed a few times due to inexperience.

I guess that is why some people like it, but it's also why I think it will always remain niche.

For once a none casual bs rpg with three stats -Vitality -Mana and -Damage. If The Souls series was as simplified i bet the majority of vets would quit simply because you'd try every build possible in under a week n then what? Instead we have tones of shit to try and this adds TONES of longevity.

Oh I do agree on that. I'm not entirely sure they are doing a great job in spelling that out though. They could have done a little bit more explanation on that tons of shit to try is all. Not everything has to be annoying or hard to understand just because the game is difficult at times.

One example I can make is the first covenant you usually run into in DS2 is that Champions one in Majula. Most would take it, but of course there is very little reason not to since it doesn't tell you that it makes everything slightly harder. It sort of implies it, but doesn't tell you anything else beyond that, so most newcomers to the series would take it just because they think something will happen with it later.

If some1 doesn't understand English that'd be a good excuse but come on now, there's nothing cryptic in the messaging.

Yeah I got the message. Once I saw that, I could tell it meant putting the game into hard mode and selected NO thanks.

Avatar image for AznbkdX
#113 Edited by AznbkdX (4179 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

Overall yes. But in what way?

I don't see why it'd matter if it told you in what way. Either you want the game more difficult or you don't.

Like I said, it's an example of not explaining things clearly. Yes it is simply wanting the game more difficult or not, but going all the way back to talking about the review, he says that some things weren't explained clearly, which is what I agree with. You only know the basic "its harder" of the situation, nothing more, which is not indicative of good design imo.

Eh I'm tired of people completely skipping the point. If you get hung up on the simplicities then of course it wouldn't matter.

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#114 Edited by jman1553 (1332 posts) -

@freedomfreak:

My major gripes with the game are:

1.Enemy tracking. Seriously. Enemies will spin like records just to follow your character. Sometimes they don't even move their legs!
2.Enemy hit-boxes. There have been MULTIPLE times where I have been hit by an enemy that was at least 5 feet away from me. The hit-boxes get absolutely absurd. That, combined with the tracking, makes the game seem like it's not playing by the rules the player uses. It's like the enemies are given cheap advantages rather than making them intelligent.

Avatar image for WilliamRLBaker
#115 Edited by WilliamRLBaker (28915 posts) -

@Ballroompirate said:

Oh man they are desperate to get some site traffic going.

pretty much system wars and off topic the most visited parts of the website now receive more than 50% less traffic since the website change, this place is pretty much dying.

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#116 Posted by MlauTheDaft (5189 posts) -

I wonder if he ever found out what SELECT does in the menues.

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#117 Edited by ShepardCommandr (4820 posts) -

@princessgomez92 said:

Sounds about right.

Avatar image for jhonMalcovich
#118 Edited by jhonMalcovich (7090 posts) -

@AznbkdX said:

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

"Arduous path" could mean anything in games.

It means it makes the game more difficult. There's no other way to interpret it.

Overall yes. But in what way?

That's the point I've been trying to make. What does it do to make it harder? Why must I try to guess at it? Why couldn't they say anything about "enemies have more brawn" or something DSey like that? If you read my questions you would know I'm trying to find out what it is, not that it is just more difficult.

I guess that means what I said about implying things isn't entirely correct at the beginning of my argument since no matter what "path" would probably indicate that it will get harder and maybe things will change for the worst at some point or time, but that is really not the argument I'm trying to make.

This is the game's main allure: to discover things by yourself. This is why I love this game in the first place. You need to try and see the things by yourself. The excitement of undertsanding these cryptic messages is equal to the excitement of solving puzzles in a point-&-click adventure. Explain it too much and it will immediately lose its appeal. Without its secrets Dark Souls woud be just another action RPG.

Avatar image for jsmoke03
#119 Edited by jsmoke03 (13696 posts) -

i saw the negative section....isnt that what most retro/older gens are all about? you sw guys must love dark souls 2

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#120 Posted by dommeus (9433 posts) -

@freedomfreak said:

I thought this was good. Might as well post it.

Gamespot's been doing these "other take" and "updated" reviews, and I'm totally okay with that. This one caught my interest though.

I haven't played it myself, but I wonder what people think that did play it. Is he coming from a reasonable angle, or is this just fishing for hits?

Review

Comment section is going!

He makes some good points about the accessibility. The challenge is daunting and exciting, but the stats screens and some of the other stuff is still hard to decipher. Also the vague directionless of where you should go next can be pretty annoying. Yes it's fun to explore, but when death can mean the difference between losing 1000's of souls or not, it encourages you not to.

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#121 Edited by Dire_Weasel (16681 posts) -

Well, I disagree but it's just an opinion. I can see where some people would find some of the game mechanics confusing and frustrating.

I'm loving the game so far, myself. I don't think it's as good as the original Dark Souls but it's for none of the reasons listed in that review.

Avatar image for AznbkdX
#122 Posted by AznbkdX (4179 posts) -

@jhonMalcovich said:

@AznbkdX said:

@Pffrbt said:

@AznbkdX said:

"Arduous path" could mean anything in games.

It means it makes the game more difficult. There's no other way to interpret it.

Overall yes. But in what way?

That's the point I've been trying to make. What does it do to make it harder? Why must I try to guess at it? Why couldn't they say anything about "enemies have more brawn" or something DSey like that? If you read my questions you would know I'm trying to find out what it is, not that it is just more difficult.

I guess that means what I said about implying things isn't entirely correct at the beginning of my argument since no matter what "path" would probably indicate that it will get harder and maybe things will change for the worst at some point or time, but that is really not the argument I'm trying to make.

This is the game's main allure: to discover things by yourself. This is why I love this game in the first place. You need to try and see the things by yourself. The excitement of undertsanding these cryptic messages is equal to the excitement of solving puzzles in a point-&-click adventure. Explain it too much and it will immediately lose its appeal. Without its secrets Dark Souls woud be just another action RPG.

I totally understand that, but there is a line to be drawn. I haven't complained about its world, its characters, bosses and fighting so overall I feel it is decent. There is a lot of mysterious things going on and its all about caution, which is great.

There are actual systems that are needlessly obtuse though outside of the main draws of the game. There is no reason to make things sound or look more difficult then they are. The world does the whole allure thing fine enough.

Avatar image for Ballroompirate
#123 Edited by Ballroompirate (25858 posts) -

@WilliamRLBaker said:

@Ballroompirate said:

Oh man they are desperate to get some site traffic going.

pretty much system wars and off topic the most visited parts of the website now receive more than 50% less traffic since the website change, this place is pretty much dying.

I'd say it's more than 75% less traffic if not 85%. I'm still betting this site ether shuts down by the end of 2015/early 2016 or some sad fool buys it (probably Giantbomb).