Could the PS5 Be cartridge based? New patent from Sony.

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evilross

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#1 evilross
Member since 2003 • 2010 Posts

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/tech/playstation-5-game-cartridge-been-20860067.amp

I’m not saying it is, just ran across this and thought it would make for interesting discussion.

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locus-solus

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#2  Edited By locus-solus
Member since 2013 • 1146 Posts

nand flash is a lot more expensive than a blu ray disks. so no it won't use cartridge

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VFighter

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#3 VFighter  Online
Member since 2016 • 5596 Posts

Yeah...no.

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mrbojangles25

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#4 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 44968 Posts

I don't think any time soon, but in the next few gens, if all-digital hasn't become most of their business, I can see them going some sort of small SSD-based kind of cartridge maybe?

I mean games are already (and have been) too big for Blu-Ray discs as it is.

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watercrack445

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#5 watercrack445
Member since 2017 • 2090 Posts

This made me laugh.

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VFighter

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#6 VFighter  Online
Member since 2016 • 5596 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Pretty sure they already have disc bigger then bluray, maybe not consumer ready (price wise) but going to a card isn't going to happen unless they release a hybrid system.

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Archangel3371

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#7 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 28969 Posts

Probably not but I think that it would be very cool and better for the longevity of the system if consoles went back to a cartridge format. I think they have already said that the PS5 will use Blu-ray Discs that can hold up to 100GB of data.

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evilross

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#8 evilross
Member since 2003 • 2010 Posts

@Archangel3371:

Yea, I agree. This is obviously something, but who knows what.

I would like to see a return to carts, seeing how well they work on Switch.

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evilross

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#9 evilross
Member since 2003 • 2010 Posts

On a side note, I remember my Sega Master System had two media options, a cartridge that was somewhat smaller then the NES carts, and a card slot, that was in the front of the machine and played small, flat cards about 2.5 x 1.5 inches if I remember correctly.

Maybe this is some sort of optional media or storage device that plugs into a solid state port?

It’s just guesswork, but I did think it was interesting enough to warrant some good natured speculation.

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R-Gamer

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#10 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1128 Posts

Considering its officially confirmed to be supporting 4k bluray I'd say no.

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ButDuuude

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#11 ButDuuude
Member since 2013 • 1482 Posts

The cartridge could be for a handheld. Sony has only used cartridges on the Vita before.

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uninspiredcup

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#12 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36357 Posts

Perhaps its designed to accept whatever next handheld they putting out, just as it was possible to use converters on old systems like GG to MS or MS to GG.

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VFighter

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#13 VFighter  Online
Member since 2016 • 5596 Posts

@uninspiredcup: @ButDuuude: This would be my guess, Sony is said to be trying their hand at another handheld, so to get a Switch like hybrid feel they might just add a cart slot onto the ps5 to allow you to play their next handhelds games on the big screen.

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pyro1245

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#14  Edited By pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 5553 Posts

Hahah yeah I saw that.

Honestly I'd prefer a small flash cart over disc-based physical media any day, even with the higher cost.

Discs are loud and slow. They're friggin' garbage in terms of modern storage. Don't want 'em, don't need 'em.

Seeing as Sony owns the Bluray spec I don't see it happening tho.

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glez13

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#15 glez13
Member since 2006 • 9976 Posts

New PlayStation Portable?

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GoldenElementXL

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#16 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3607 Posts

Maybe Sony found a way to make their next system a console AND a handheld. Sony is known for their innovation, afterall...

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I_P_Daily

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#17 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 13507 Posts

Hopefully its a handheld, and see them waste all that money from the leg up MS gave them this gen.

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TJDMHEM

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#18 TJDMHEM
Member since 2006 • 2688 Posts

Yes

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Jag85

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#19  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13916 Posts

@locus-solus: NAND flash is actually getting quite cheap to manufacture. Now it only costs about 10 cents per GB, or 10 GB per dollar, to manufacture. For $5, they could manufacture the NAND flash equivalent of a 50 GB Blu-Ray.

As NAND flash prices further decrease (as per Moore's law), optical discs will become obsolete and NAND flash will dominate. Which means the potential comeback of cartridges making optical discs obsolete, ironically. Optical discs once made carts obsolete, and now it looks like carts may end up making optical discs obsolete in the near future.

While Nintendo paid the price for choosing carts over CDs with the N64, Nintendo this time made a smart choice picking flash carts over discs for the Switch. Flash memory technology is advancing to the point where carts would no longer be much more expensive than discs like they used to be.

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Addict187

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#20 Addict187
Member since 2008 • 1072 Posts

I think this could be Sonys new way to upgrade the internal SSD. A proprietary design that ensures that you can only upgrade to certified sony SSD. And thus making every SSD upgrade use the same specs

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lamprey263

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#21 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 36278 Posts

I would think such a thing would be more a hint at a potential handheld endeavor.

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2Chalupas

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#22 2Chalupas
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@Jag85 said:

@locus-solus: NAND flash is actually getting quite cheap to manufacture. Now it only costs about 10 cents per GB, or 10 GB per dollar, to manufacture. For $5, they could manufacture the NAND flash equivalent of a 50 GB Blu-Ray.

As NAND flash prices further decrease (as per Moore's law), optical discs will become obsolete and NAND flash will dominate. Which means the potential comeback of cartridges making optical discs obsolete, ironically. Optical discs once made carts obsolete, and now it looks like carts may end up making optical discs obsolete in the near future.

While Nintendo paid the price for choosing carts over CDs with the N64, Nintendo this time made a smart choice picking flash carts over discs for the Switch. Flash memory technology is advancing to the point where carts would no longer be much more expensive than discs like they used to be.

$5 equivalent for a blu-ray that surely costs <$1 per disc pressed at scale. That's actually still a massive difference. 5x cost difference. This is why it seems Sony is going with optical, and they also want to help push the last gasp of optical formats with UHD media. Publishers love optical media because pressing out additional copies is almost a negligible cost.

That "cartridge based" might happen next-next gen (PS6), but by then it might be a moot point as the market is going more and more digital. I do see maybe that as a possibility instead of a 100% "digital only" console they will go to 128GB cartridges which by then will probably be as cheap as optical disc. If there was price parity there would be no question to go with faster NAND memory.

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xantufrog

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#23 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11909 Posts

It's for their answer to the Switch

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hiphops_savior

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#24 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8484 Posts

@Addict187: That would be the most Sony thing ever.

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BenjaminBanklin

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#25 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 5254 Posts

I'm looking forward to blowing in my future Sony cartridges to get them to work.

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Guntster22

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#26 Guntster22
Member since 2019 • 44 Posts

After how Sony handled Vita, they can get fucked . No more Sony handhelds for me.

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DaVillain-

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#27 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 39342 Posts

It would be cool to see cartridges make a comeback, not going to lie.

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#28  Edited By npiet1
Member since 2018 • 2704 Posts

The patent doesn't specifically mention that it's for games, and judging by the size it's not. It looks more like an upgrade cart, Sega tried it. Could be instead of a mid gen upgrade just add more power.

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judaspete

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#29 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 3290 Posts

Sony tends to follow Nintendo's successful ideas. So yep, PS5 is a hybrid console with games on carts. You heard it here first folks ;).

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#30 SaltSlasher
Member since 2015 • 1389 Posts

I'd love a PS5/PSP 3.

I don't need a single format, but there should be a huge catalog of digital purchases that work on both, and get PS Now up on that bitch, etc.

I wouldn't mind traditional handheld again, I just wonder where the support will come from at this point, then again, they could push it with studios and maybe swoop on those who are opting for Switch/PC only.

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Jag85

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#31 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13916 Posts

@2Chalupas said:
@Jag85 said:

@locus-solus: NAND flash is actually getting quite cheap to manufacture. Now it only costs about 10 cents per GB, or 10 GB per dollar, to manufacture. For $5, they could manufacture the NAND flash equivalent of a 50 GB Blu-Ray.

As NAND flash prices further decrease (as per Moore's law), optical discs will become obsolete and NAND flash will dominate. Which means the potential comeback of cartridges making optical discs obsolete, ironically. Optical discs once made carts obsolete, and now it looks like carts may end up making optical discs obsolete in the near future.

While Nintendo paid the price for choosing carts over CDs with the N64, Nintendo this time made a smart choice picking flash carts over discs for the Switch. Flash memory technology is advancing to the point where carts would no longer be much more expensive than discs like they used to be.

$5 equivalent for a blu-ray that surely costs <$1 per disc pressed at scale. That's actually still a massive difference. 5x cost difference. This is why it seems Sony is going with optical, and they also want to help push the last gasp of optical formats with UHD media. Publishers love optical media because pressing out additional copies is almost a negligible cost.

That "cartridge based" might happen next-next gen (PS6), but by then it might be a moot point as the market is going more and more digital. I do see maybe that as a possibility instead of a 100% "digital only" console they will go to 128GB cartridges which by then will probably be as cheap as optical disc. If there was price parity there would be no question to go with faster NAND memory.

I think about $5 is about how much CD, DVD and BD each cost at the start of generations 5, 6, and 7, respectively. So $5 isn't that much. Nevertheless, as NAND prices half every 18 months (outpacing Moore's law), 50 GB NAND should eventually drop down to $1 over the next several years.

In a "digital only" future, NAND flash would be important, whether in the form of an internal solid-state drive (SSD) or removable memory card (cartridge), as NAND would serve as the storage medium for downloading and streaming games. Sony may adopt both approaches to NAND tech in future, with a flash SSD internally and flash carts externally.

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#32  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 36357 Posts

@davillain- said:

It would be cool to see cartridges make a comeback, not going to lie.

I agree, just from a physical aesthetic perspective they they were always more gratifying than disks, disks are hollow, soulless husks.

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#33 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13916 Posts

@uninspiredcup: It's only a matter of time before cartridges make a comeback, thanks to rapidly advancing NAND flash technology. Even Sony might have its first cartridge-based console with either the PS5 or PS6.

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#34 VFighter  Online
Member since 2016 • 5596 Posts

@Jag85: It aint happening anytime soon.

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evilross

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#35  Edited By evilross
Member since 2003 • 2010 Posts

Lots of good speculation going on here, I thought it would be an interesting topic.

I’m hoping it’s somehow part of the PS5, I liked the theory that it could be some sort of external storage for downloads or a storage expansion.

The idea of game carts on a dedicated machine sure sounds nice though.

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#36 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 11419 Posts

The PS5 is going to be faster than a PC. Hermits Hahahahahahaah

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#37  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 13916 Posts

@vfighter: In a few years time, NAND flash prices will almost reach parity with Blu-ray. And even right now, NAND prices are comparable to what Blu-ray cost when it first launched. Sony could decide to go with flash carts for either PS5, or PS5 Pro, or PS6.

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lundy86_4

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#38 lundy86_4
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@xhawk27 said:

The PS5 is going to be faster than a PC. Hermits Hahahahahahaah

PC users have NVMe. My brother just bought a 1GB.

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Zero_epyon

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#39 Zero_epyon
Member since 2004 • 13493 Posts

I see this happening for a portable device. PSP might make a comeback!

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#40 raugutcon
Member since 2014 • 5503 Posts

@BenjaminBanklin: just be sure to take a deep breath for real good cleanin blow !

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MirkoS77

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#41 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14668 Posts

What’s the point?

Gone are the days of true plug and play like the Genesis and SNES. We’re not going to get that again. Software is continually growing in size, installations are now mandatory even when cartridges are utilized, and disc technologies have far advanced past their infancy to hold par.

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#43  Edited By MclarenMaster18
Member since 2014 • 1994 Posts

To me, it's not a good idea for PS5's physical copy games to be cartridge.

In my opinion, CDs are better because of the larger capacity also I wanted Xbox Scarlett's physical copy games to be CD too!

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#44  Edited By Bond007uk
Member since 2002 • 939 Posts

@xhawk27: How have you come to that conclusion?? You do realise we (PC users) have had super fast SSD tech for some time now right? You guys just catching up.

And no, it won't be faster.

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#45 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 3607 Posts

@xhawk27: What a mark...

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#46 pyro1245
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@xhawk27 said:

The PS5 is going to be faster than a PC. Hermits Hahahahahahaah

  1. PS5 is a PC
  2. PS5 is a cheap PC
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Bond007uk

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#47 Bond007uk
Member since 2002 • 939 Posts

Anyhow, what possible use could Flash storage for games be with their relatively slow read speed?

The fastest Flash storage has speeds of 90M/s while SSD is at least 10x faster in real world terms.

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osan0

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#48 osan0
Member since 2004 • 15501 Posts

I wonder is this to house the custom storage solution sony have talked about.

One concern i have for next gen is that MS and/or sony stop using industry standard storage and change to a completely custom solution where they then charge a small fortune.

Ideally both consoles would be using some nvme based M.2 SSD with 5GB/s transfer speeds where the user could just stick a new off the shelf part in to upgrade it. (like the HDD setup for the PS3 and 4: i love that).

I really really hope this isn't a proprietary SSD basically for the PS5.

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#49  Edited By 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23267 Posts

I think these cartridges may be an upgrade of the total ssd storage amount. If they are going with a custom solid state solution that isnt using PC standards with SSD's 2.5" or M.2's . Sony may have to include an expansion slot to minimize the issues of limited ssd space inside..... while using an external harddrive solution messing up the access speeds from solid state storage.

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#50 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1128 Posts

If this is a memory expansion this is genius.