Could a 2019 "Lockhart" be true 4K/60FPS this gen, 1440p/30FPS next gen, $ 499?

Bump. I'd appreciate more numbers in the poll. Thank you.

120fps isn't going to happen since many people don't have 120hz TVs. It isn't worth the work required.

The rest I can see happening. I'm more excited about the gameplay related prospects of a drastically upgraded CPU and SSD than the resolution increase. I'd expect that to be the main selling point next gen.

120 fps lol

The performance in a game is dependent on the developer. So, this notion of 4k/60fps machine is just silly.

Probably still a sub 30 fps experience with options for a sub 60 fps experience.

It'll be close to the Pros specs except a better CPU.

Frame rates above 60 for consoles played on TV doesn’t make sense. But why don’t we worry about hitting 60fps first. 30 is looking to be the standard again next gen.

If you want 120fps+ you need to start PC gaming. That’s the only place you’re getting it

They'll double down in Sony's BS and mention 8k/120fps randomly during the presentation.

If ms had any brains they would release the Lockhart with the power for 1080/60 hdr ultra settings

100’s of millions of gamers still have 1080 tv’s

And that’s what I think they will do

You are a million years away from 120FPS on console, if they stop putting the CPU as the highest end chip and a video card at the same level, then rest assured it may be possible, but consoles are made to be power efficient, targeting 60FPS is far harder than 30FPS even on a console.

Xbox Lockhart specs:

CPU: Custom 8 Cores – 16 zen threads 2

GPU: Custom NAVI 4+ Teraflops

RAM: 12GB of GDDR6 memory

Storage: 1TB NVMe 1 + GB / s SSD hard drive

Xbox Anaconda specs:

CPU: Custom 8 Cores – 16 zen threads 2

GPU: Custom NAVI 12+ Teraflops

RAM: 16GB of GDDR6 memory

Storage: 1TB NVMe 1 + GB / s SSD hard drive

Doesn't the Xbox One S and X already support 120hz? It makes me think that the next step would be to actually support those for actual game framerates albeit at 900-1080p, at least for some titles.

I also believe that the next gen Xbox as well as Sony will support 8K even if that's even far more rare than 120hz. That may have more to do with media playback though.

Another possible reason for 120hz support might be for VR more baked in or incidentally built in unless the reprojection like the VR is cheap (not sure if that's true 120hz?).

120hz, mid range TVs have been common for at least 2 years now but I do agree that it isn't really that mainstream or high market share.

I agree with the last one but I'm not sure until when the transitional games will truly get cut-off to makeway for true 9th gen game designs or they could do it ala PC where you can dial down the setting to super bad graphics and framerate and let the base 8th gen consoles play them at least it gives people an option but I have a feeling they'll have some "standard"/arbitrary standard where they'll just eventually cut-off 8th gen.

Some interesting cases might be 6th-7th gen titles like Dragon Age: I, CoD, BF, TF1.

I hope for better RAM and storage but I guess price also determines this.

After watching AMD’s computex I believe anything is possible at this point.

Console developers aren't gonna bother with 120Hz, they know console gamers only care for higher resolution as evidence shown this gen and so with that, I expect more on 4K/30fps into next-gen consoles. And besides, console gamers know if they care about higher framerates, they'll go to PC for that on their own choice.

I don't see a good reason to release Lockhart before Anaconda. What market exists between the Xbox One (S/X) and Anaconda and, how would it be truly supported? They should focus on getting people on XCloud and, Gamepass this year.

@rzxv04: Xbox One X and S also support native 4K but that doesn't mean it's feasible for the vast majority of games. 60fps isn't even close to standardized let alone a 120fps option. Many of the game's systems would need to be modified to allow that to be an option, and I don't believe that's worth it.

120hz TVs are also often resolution limited (4k TVs touting 120hz often can only do 120hz at 1080p and 60hz at 4k). Your potential customers would be a small subset of the TV market and for a "dying" resolution. I just can't see devs delegating already limited resources for such a thing. 8K support will almost certainly be for media playback or limited indie games. Even the 2080 Ti struggles with 4K at 60fps and that's many times more expensive than a console.

@slimdogmilionar: I didn't paid much attention but the improvement isn't about 15% over a high-end setup?

@XVision84: the 4k 120hz is mainly limitation of HDMI as it stands not even 2.0 can push it through, it's the same with high end monitors which require displayport. My C8 at least can do 4k 120hz but you are limited to internal sources

This is absolutely the case... My Q8FN is limited to 120 @1080/1440, and 60 @4K. That being said, the 1440/120 option is often tempting in certain games, especially given running 4K/60 is a bitch lol.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/3d-realms-xbox-anaconda-ps5-google-stadia-comparson/

One developer expects next Xbox and PS5 to be more powerful than Google Stadia.

GamingBolt spoke with 3D Realms vice president Frederik Schreiber and he expects the PS5 and Xbox Anaconda will exceed Stadia by far.

Google Stadia's GPU has 56 CUs and 10.7 TFLOPS with Vega 64's memory bandwidth.

NAVI RX-5700 has enhanced memory compression to beat Vega 64.

@XVision84 said:

@rzxv04: Xbox One X and S also support native 4K but that doesn't mean it's feasible for the vast majority of games. 60fps isn't even close to standardized let alone a 120fps option. Many of the game's systems would need to be modified to allow that to be an option, and I don't believe that's worth it.

120hz TVs are also often resolution limited (4k TVs touting 120hz often can only do 120hz at 1080p and 60hz at 4k). Your potential customers would be a small subset of the TV market and for a "dying" resolution. I just can't see devs delegating already limited resources for such a thing. 8K support will almost certainly be for media playback or limited indie games. Even the 2080 Ti struggles with 4K at 60fps and that's many times more expensive than a console.

I would like to emphasize "8th gen/current gen" and its theoretical slightly longer extension towards next gen gaming.

My thinking is that almost the entire aspects of the current gen are lifted, mostly when it comes to current gen gaming.

If I am also being optimistic we will see more "modes" bleed into titles thanks to this phenomenon. Something like "8th gen mode", "performance mode", "9th gen graphics mode", "very high performance mode". I'll explain what these exactly mean to me later.

Currently, the Xbox One/S and PS4 have "soft targets" of 900p and 1080p while the PS4 Pro has mostly been at 4K checkerboarding (CB) and the Xbox One X having more native 4K. Of course in the strictest sense these are just the resolutions of the respective consoles but let's keep it simpler by not averaging all the resolution entries of each of the four systems or counting exact averages of 30 FPS target games as 30 FPS haven't been perfected in the strictest sense as DF have mentioned in their Crysis 2 video that we are only closer to the 30 FPS target this gen because the PS3 360 generation was more mid 20s. The target is still 30 FPS. I hope the thread does not devolve to counting those kinds of averages.

You can see here that 900p Xbox One is common to the 1080p PS4 counterpart.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/could-a-2019-lockhart-be-true-4k60fps-this-gen-144-33460204/#js-message-20

So to keep things simpler:

8th GEN:

Xbox One/S = more 900p than base PS4, 8th gen gaming

PS4 = more 1080p than Xbox One/S, 8th gen gaming

Xbox One X = more 4K native than PS4 Pro, 8th gen gaming

PS4 Pro = more 4K CB than Xbox One X, 8th gen gaming

30 FPS "soft target" for "graphics heavy games" like RDR2 SP, TW3 "8th graphics mode", God of War 4, etc.

60 FPS "soft target" for "action heavy games" NBA, DMC5, 8th gen fighters, some 8th gen shooters, etc.

This generation has quite showed of PC-like modes where you can choose to drop visuals for performance and vice versa, mostly due to the introduction of Pro and X.

Xbox S and X has introduced Variable Refresh Rate and 120hz support. Even though most displays don't have VRR nor 120hz Sony and MS may feature a little bit of near future forward thinking bonuses specially if the product is to be a mainstay for 6-9 years. It seems games do not have to show full 120 unique frames per second to produce less feelings of stutter and judder thanks VRR/120FPS modes:

Sekiro Digital Foundry:

https://youtu.be/vmVM1LsbHvA?t=626

PSVR has 90/120 Refresh Rates

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/playstation-vr/tech-specs/

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/a2cv7e/can_someone_explain_psvr_refresh_rate_to_me_60hz/

9th GEN:

Next Gen "Lockhart" = far more native 4K entries than Xbox One X, 8th gen "graphics heavy games" up to 60 FPS, 8th gen "action heavy games/performance modes" past 60, maybe 90 full frames with VRR/120hz mode that helps smooths judder/stutter.

The theoretical next gen Xbox Lockhart (and Anaconda) may improve upon most these like higher or more stable framerates, higher resolution and/or higher image quality, not too dissimilar to how 7th gen to 8th gen Remasters, Crossplatforms have shown themselves but thanks to 9th gen supposedly having full b/c, "Remasters" might be appear differently here which deserves a new topic.

Cross-gen games are going to be popular for a while and with current 8th gen still being targets, I see some devs leveraging next gen's (9th gen's) strengths while strongly keeping in mind limitations of current gen (8th).

The Witcher 3 might be an interesting case to look at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ3zCgwxf3w

1080-1332p dynamic resolution in performance mode, about 50-60 fps in combat in certain places, ~40 fps near or in towns.

4K mode (I'd consider this a "graphics mode") is dynamic 1800p-2160p, 30 fps, better graphics settings.

As for much increase framerates, A much better CPU will need to play a huge part in this and thankfully this could be the ZEN 2 (3rd generation Ryzen) of 9th gen. While Xbox has yet to announce their specs, I think it would be also 8 cores minimum like Sony's.

Here's Digital Foundry testing a 1st generation Ryzen at 4 cores and 8 threads at 3 Ghz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjjRdrVAHCQ

Witcher 3's base console target is at 900p/1080p/30 FPS and this is how it usually performs while the Ryzen goes up to 1080p/122fps for the CPU test.

"Witcher 3 based on current gen constraints targetting 30 hz on consoles.... in general gameplay on the open world, our Ryzen candidate moves north of one hundred frames per second: a three to four X improvement even before we factor in processor specific optimizations in a fixed box like a console.

Remember we're using code here that was never designed with Ryzen in mind, game makers code to the silicon on a console, one of the key advantages of the boxes have.."

Just Cause 3

"More than double the framerate"

AC Unity

"General gameplay easily hits 80 frames here", Shows about 25 FPS for base PS4 earlier.

With that video, and 2 generation Ryzens later with double the actual cores, I think that doubled framerate in general would be achievable for a lot of cross-gen titles in their performance modes.

For "purely" 9th gen games that have heavy graphics like a theoretical Gears of War 7, I can see the Lockhart doing 1440p+ advanced upscaling like CB or advanced forms of it to 4K just how 1080p30 FPS was on the base Xbox One.

As some devs get more and more used to consoles having dual modes on current gen, I see this becoming a staple and even expanded upon 9th gen something like:

Xbox "Lockhart Modes" in some "transitional/cross-platform 8-9th gen games":

"8th Performance/*VR/AR Modes" = 90-120 FPS (VRR/120hz support), 900p/1080p/1440p. *if MS does VR/AR.

"8th gen Graphics Mode" = 60 FPS common, 4k native (more frequent that Xbox One X 4K native entries)

"9th gen Graphics Mode" = 1440p/CB4K, raytracing, much better graphics than 8th gen Graphics Mode.

By the time 9th gen graphics mode starts, if it ever happens, might be the time where 8th gen gets cut off soon.

On a side note. It seems Pro/X have better frame rate online BF in the DF video yet they compete in the same spaces in games. It seems they're fine with that kind of advantage against base owners instead of limiting base owners to compete with themselves only. Then again, thats common with PC.

I do wonder if there's a chance of devs locking out the higher fps/much better graphics for extra $. I guess they likely won't as this isn't done with current gen.

@rzxv04: I'm still not sold on this idea that future games will have graphics and performance modes. During this generation, the 4K market grew very quickly. It made sense to create a new line of consoles geared towards these customers (Ps4Pro/X1X) while offering incentives for people who haven't upgraded their TVs yet (performance modes).

This will not be the case next generation, I doubt we'll see 8K gain precedence over the next few years. At most it might happen the generation after. Therefore I don't view the existence of multiple modes as the future, more like an anomaly that only temporarily existed (with limited support, mind you) in this current generation.

That being said, there are rumors that Microsoft will have two xbox consoles so I could easily be wrong. I'll believe it when I see it, I still hold my reservations. I don't think devs want to waste resources or time creating games with multiple modes in mind. Especially since every generation contains advancements that simply aren't possible on previous generation hardware (even with "lower settings") without fundamentally changing the experience.

Considering the microtransaction controversies today, charging for higher fps and graphics would be PR suicide.

You could be right to the extent that it won't have "more" modes of currently mostly only having 2 modes. It might be a trapping standard for consoles but I don't know (vocal minority goes waahh not 60/90/120 fps... waahh!). Sometimes, I kinda feel like it's gonna be more and more open in options like a PC at least in this aspect but yeah, might be a waste of time to expand it like PC options but if anyone can do it, I think it's MS at this point.

To be honest I think 8K would be for a rare few games maybe like Xbox OG (Halo 1, etc.) doing 8K or RType simple graphics games or 2D-ish high quality games. I honestly mostly 8K mostly for media/ui, less about native 3D renders. On a sidenote, 8K might become cheaper fast since that won't be a good metric for tvs later on like how you can get $ 200 55 inch 4K tvs last year. I do wonder how long until 8K becomes close to that.

I think that the "3 modes" I mentioned would be much rare compared to current standard of just "2 modes". Say a hypothetical BF 6 for 8th gen and 9th gen. 8th gen will have base lower res, lower assets, less table framerates, pro/x will have higher res/assets, Lockhart/Anaconda will have even better graphics ala ultra and higher or rock solid framerates unless for some reason Dice/EA has some strategy where they'd want to milk for those 9th gen graphics/fps. You could be right that devs will play it easy and still maintain that 60fps for such game then just use ultra/rt when 9th gen is detected; no uber high performance (90-120fps), low graphics mode (looks closer to 8th gen in quality).

I also honestly believe that there's not much effort into patching for any big development team worth their salt to patch for the recent 8th gen games to get simple next gen boosts for pc/res/assets if the games don't allow it automatically allow it like how Richard in DF said HZD WILL require a patch since the game was designed for 30. I think that'll be less of an issue with big 3rd parties that have long tracks of dealing with PC and consoles, and MS too since MS is basically Windows/DirectX/XR.

I really hope you're right about that MT. I hope it doesn't sound too much of a corporate apologist but I might not mind paying extra $ 10 for a substantial asset quality and lighting boost, not something like "ultra" on PC which seem like a waste of resources, more like a "Remaster" or some of those beautiful Skyrim mods.

As a Sony fan, I am just very, very excited for next gen MS as I really believe they'll have more output similar to Sony soon. I want to see them do a truly next gen Gears of War as it seems to be their premiere TPS as 4 was looks far less evolved mechanically and animation-wise compared to other shooter peers. Same with Halo, really excited for more openworld/sandbox AAA budget 1st party title. Ugghh much OT, sorry.