Controversy at GDC: Phil Fish developer of Fez say Japanese dev Your games s***

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ShadowriverUB

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#1 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts
....at Q&A session (didnt fit in title :p). Im not sure if it was already posted http://www.develop-online.net/news/40061/GDC-Japanese-dev-mocked-your-games-suck Reminder for those who dont know what Fez is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWUU0vvWLRo His words created little storm in GDC, specially that discussion if Japan is relevant or not anymore shows up time to time.
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savebattery

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#2 savebattery
Member since 2009 • 3626 Posts
Platinum Games is all I have to say.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#3 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

lol what a moron.

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DarkLink77

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#4 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

Western devs could learn a thing or two about respect from the Japanese.

First BioWare, and now some no-name indie dev? C'mon.

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#5 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts
Japan has essentially become irrelevant.
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#6 Dr_Corndog
Member since 2004 • 3245 Posts
A Western dev has no business insulting the Japanese.
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JLF1MarkII

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#7 JLF1MarkII
Member since 2012 • 1416 Posts

Meh, he might have a point but it's not like western indie devs are any better.

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#8 savebattery
Member since 2009 • 3626 Posts
Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer
Except, you know, Nintendo. And Sony, SEGA, Namco-Bandai, Capcom, Konami, Square Enix, and Tecmo-Koei. Those publishers may not be as big as they were last generation, but you're nuts if you think they're irrelevant.
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#9 JLF1MarkII
Member since 2012 • 1416 Posts

Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer


Except for Sony and a little company called Nintendo.

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#10 skanjos
Member since 2006 • 647 Posts

and still mgs iv is one of the few games that blew my mind. i prefer quality over call of duty so i like japanese games too, still cant find a game that compares to bayonetta/vanquish in terms of fast paced action,or an rpg like demon souls/dark souls or a srpg like valkyria chronicles . soooo this dude is wrong in my books

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#11 timmy00
Member since 2006 • 15360 Posts

Maybe he should actually release his first game before saying stupid sh*t.

Though he would still look dumb either way.

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#12 RavenLoud
Member since 2009 • 2874 Posts

And then somehow this thread will still shift to complaining about Japan being xenophonibc.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#13 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer
Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

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deactivated-61cf0c4baf12e

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#14 deactivated-61cf0c4baf12e
Member since 2006 • 6013 Posts

Fez looks awesome (never heard of it before).

Now BOT, I don't think I played a good japanese game this gen aside from Bayonetta, Lost odyssey, Dead rising and SF4... and if I did I'm not aware of it so yeah, I'd have to agree that the japanese market dropped the ball this gen.

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#15 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.JLF1MarkII



Except for Sony and a little company called Nintendo.

Which is why Sony has relied heavily on Western developers this generation, and Nintendo is going to move to bring Western developers as a focal point in the Wii U in regards to multiplats. Try again. :]

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#16 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Aljosa23

Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.
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#17 vtoshkatur
Member since 2011 • 1962 Posts

I agree with him on some level. Japan is no where near as important as it was in the 80s and 90s when it comes to games.

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#18 ShadowriverUB
Member since 2009 • 5515 Posts

Fez looks awesome (never heard of it before).

Now BOT, I don't think I played a good japanese game this gen aside from Bayonetta, Lost odyssey, Dead rising and SF4... and if I did I'm not aware of it so yeah, I'd have to agree that the japanese market dropped the ball this gen.

_TheJoker_
Hmmm i think they become more isolated, all those manga-ish what PS2 was full of kind don't go out outside Japan anymore
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#19 brennanhuff
Member since 2011 • 957 Posts

Good. So sick of everyone being PC. I love JRPGs so I don't agree but I agree with speaking your mind. Now watch all the little pu$$ies come crying.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#20 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer

Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.

No one will argue the opposite but it's hardly "irrelevant".

Why you gotta move goal posts for, Steven?!

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#21 eboyishere
Member since 2011 • 12681 Posts
OH NO HE DIDNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but it's true, japan hasn't been on the ball this gen.
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#22 lowkey254
Member since 2004 • 6031 Posts
Platinum Games is all I have to say.savebattery
Exactly. Not everything has to be a FPS.
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#23 gensigns
Member since 2007 • 1495 Posts

It's funny, 'cause it's true!

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#24 savebattery
Member since 2009 • 3626 Posts
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer

Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.

Dimished importance is far from irrelevance. Are you really saying that it wouldn't matter at all if Nintendo, Sony Computer Entertainment, Capcom, SEGA, Atlus, Konami, Namco, Tecmo-Koei, and Square Enix suddenly disappeared? The size of the Western markets far dwarfs that of the Japanese market, so anyone with a brain had to expect that Western publishers would eventually begin to eclipse Japanese ones. But Japan is still extremely relevant. It's where the majority of the support for dedicated handhelds comes from, it's where two of the three console manufacturers are headquartered, and it's still home to roughly half of the 20 biggest game publishers in the world.
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#25 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
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No one will argue the opposite but it's hardly "irrelevant".

Why you gotta move goal posts for, Steven?!

Aljosa23

It is quite irrelevant. The biggest games this generation are 99% Western. Heck, even Sony has realized it. Nintendo seems to be the only company trying to keep the last string attached.

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#26 GameFan1983
Member since 2004 • 2189 Posts

sure quality from J-dev these days aren't as high quality as they used to be, but some most innovative, largest projects are still come from Japan, Western games these days are more or less under the influence of Geow, GOW, cod, halo unfortunately, but all time classic and epic project such as Demon's souls/Dark souls, Monster hunter, ICO/Last guardian etc.(dead rising is also 1 of the most innovative design in gaming i have ever seen) would make most western devs dream to reach these standards.

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#27 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 63512 Posts
His game better be good. No one likes a smack talker who can't back it up.
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#28 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

Guy is a moron. Clear racism and people will defend it. That is what is amazing

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#29 JLF1MarkII
Member since 2012 • 1416 Posts

[QUOTE="JLF1MarkII"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer



Except for Sony and a little company called Nintendo.

Which is why Sony has relied heavily on Western developers this generation, and Nintendo is going to move to bring Western developers as a focal point in the Wii U in regards to multiplats. Try again. :]


So you're telling me that western devs on the Wiiu is somehow proof that Japanese devs are irrelevant? Sony and Nintendo are still Japanese companies aren't they ;)

It's true that most of the mega franchises are from the western side but it's not like any indie dev ever has reached any form of importance either. Well, I guess Minecraft but that's it.

If Phil Fish means in terms of money he's right but that will also mean that every indie dev is irrelevant in his eyes. If he's talking about innovation then he is very wrong.

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shinrabanshou

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#30 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

It is quite irrelevant. The biggest games this generation are 99% Western. Heck, even Sony has realized it. Nintendo seems to be the only company trying to keep the last string attached.

Stevo_the_gamer

The comment by this dev at a glance, isn't about the "biggest games." It's about the quality of games.

And there are as many sh*t games coming out by Western developers as there are Japanese ones frankly.

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#31 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

savebattery

The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.

Dimished importance is far from irrelevance. Are you really saying that it wouldn't matter at all if Nintendo, Sony Computer Entertainment, Capcom, SEGA, Atlus, Konami, Namco, Tecmo-Koei, and Square Enix suddenly disappeared? The size of the Western markets far dwarfs that of the Japanese market, so anyone with a brain had to expect that Western publishers would eventually begin to eclipse Japanese ones. But Japan is still extremely relevant. It's where the majority of the support for dedicated handhelds comes from, it's where two of the three console manufacturers are headquartered, and it's still home to roughly half of the 20 biggest game publishers in the world.

Square Enix... Konami... Namco... Tecmo... even Capcom; merely shadows of their former companies. SCE has releazed Japan has little importance now, just look at the biggest games on the PS3. God of War, Infamous, Killzone, Motorstorm, Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet... need I go on? Are we seeing a common theme here? Where they are headquartered matters little if both of them are striving to bring in the biggest markets in gaming.

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#32 JLF1MarkII
Member since 2012 • 1416 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]No one will argue the opposite but it's hardly "irrelevant".

Why you gotta move goal posts for, Steven?!

Stevo_the_gamer

It is quite irrelevant. The biggest games this generation are 99% Western. Heck, even Sony has realized it. Nintendo seems to be the only company trying to keep the last string attached.



Yep your right, Japanese gaming companies are almost as sad as USA gaming companies.

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#33 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 63512 Posts

[QUOTE="JLF1MarkII"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer



Except for Sony and a little company called Nintendo.

Which is why Sony has relied heavily on Western developers this generation, and Nintendo is going to move to bring Western developers as a focal point in the Wii U in regards to multiplats. Try again. :]

Sony's first party devs have always primarily been western developers. The difference this gen is that they have had to put more faith in their own first party, and less on third party. As for the Wii U, they try to do that every gen since getting spanked in the 64 gen.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#34 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]No one will argue the opposite but it's hardly "irrelevant".

Why you gotta move goal posts for, Steven?!

Stevo_the_gamer

It is quite irrelevant. The biggest games this generation are 99% Western. Heck, even Sony has realized it. Nintendo seems to be the only company trying to keep the last string attached.

I'll need some facts before I trust your system warrior hyperbole.

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shinrabanshou

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#35 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

Square Enix... Konami... Namco... Tecmo... even Capcom; merely shadows of their former companies. SCE has releazed Japan has little importance now, just look at the biggest games on the PS3. God of War, Infamous, Killzone, Motorstorm, Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet... need I go on? Are we seeing a common theme here? Where they are headquartered matters little if both of them are striving to bring in the biggest markets in gaming.

Stevo_the_gamer

Gran Turismo 5 is technically the biggest game on the PS3, with regard to how you seem to be using the term "biggest" in this sentence.

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#36 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
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So you're telling me that western devs on the Wiiu is somehow proof that Japanese devs are irrelevant? Sony and Nintendo are still Japanese companies aren't they ;)

It's true that most of the mega franchises are from the western side but it's not like any indie dev ever has reached any form of importance either. Well, I guess Minecraft but that's it.

If Phil Fish means in terms of money he's right but that will also mean that every indie dev is irrelevant in his eyes. If he's talking about innovation then he is very wrong.

JLF1MarkII

No, it's a theme however because even Nintendo has realized their next console won't survive without western developers. Japanese or not, they do not have the influence on gaming like they had years ago. Japan has essentially became irrelavant.

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#37 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

Gran Turismo 5 is technically the biggest game on the PS3, with regard to how you seem to be using the term "biggest" in this sentence.

shinrabanshou

How often do PD make games? Exactly.

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#38 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

[QUOTE="JLF1MarkII"]

So you're telling me that western devs on the Wiiu is somehow proof that Japanese devs are irrelevant? Sony and Nintendo are still Japanese companies aren't they ;)

It's true that most of the mega franchises are from the western side but it's not like any indie dev ever has reached any form of importance either. Well, I guess Minecraft but that's it.

If Phil Fish means in terms of money he's right but that will also mean that every indie dev is irrelevant in his eyes. If he's talking about innovation then he is very wrong.

Stevo_the_gamer

No, it's a theme however because even Nintendo has realized their next console won't survive without western developers. Japanese or not, they do not have the influence on gaming like they had years ago. Japan has essentially became irrelavant.

Nintendo is by far and away the biggest video game company in the world. And they are exclusively japanese. They probably alone own more than a quarter of all video game sales. This is simply not true. It is such **** I don't even bother why I am even commenting.

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#39 JLF1MarkII
Member since 2012 • 1416 Posts

No, it's a theme however because even Nintendo has realized their next console won't survive without western developers. Japanese or not, they do not have the influence on gaming like they had years ago. Japan has essentially became irrelavant.

Stevo_the_gamer



In what way? Innovation or money?

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#40 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

Gran Turismo 5 is technically the biggest game on the PS3, with regard to how you seem to be using the term "biggest" in this sentence.

Stevo_the_gamer

How often do PD make games? Exactly.

I don't deny that SCEJ is in shambles.

I still don't see how diminished importance equates to irrelevance.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#41 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_360_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_DS_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games#PlayStation_3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games#PlayStation_Portable

buh buh da japuneze gaymes are irrelevant!!1 :(

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#42 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

Sony's first party devs have always primarily been western developers. The difference this gen is that they have had to put more faith in their own first party, and less on third party. As for the Wii U, they try to do that every gen since getting spanked in the 64 gen.

jg4xchamp

Always, no, not last generation, and not the generation previous. Japan's influence on gaming was huge in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. It has since dropped off the cliff, practically.

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#43 Assassin_87
Member since 2004 • 2349 Posts

Guy is a moron. Clear racism and people will defend it. That is what is amazing

nhh18

Clear racism? Show me what part of his own quoted speech is racist. Please, reply and show me. "Your games suck" isn't racism. Maybe he just doesn't think that what comes out of Japan these days is any good. Is that racism?

:|

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#44 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Xbox_360_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_DS_video_games
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games#PlayStation_3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_games#PlayStation_Portable

buh buh da japuneze gaymes are irrelevant!!1 :(

Aljosa23

Wikipedia. lol

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#45 rumbalumba
Member since 2011 • 2445 Posts

Pokemon

Gran Turismo

Mario

Metal Gear

Zelda

Biohazard

Final Fantasy

wake me up when the West can come up with classics.

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#46 WiiCubeM1
Member since 2009 • 4735 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]Japan has essentially become irrelevant.Stevo_the_gamer

Maybe to disgruntled nerds on SW.

The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.

Just like how in the East, Western devs mean very little to anyone. Only one console is actually developed by a Western developer.

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#47 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
Member since 2004 • 47819 Posts

I don't deny that SCEJ is in shambles.

I still don't see how diminished importance equates to irrelevance.

shinrabanshou

Because I believe the diminished importance has progressed to the essentially irrelevant stage.

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#48 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

Guy is a moron. Clear racism and people will defend it. That is what is amazing

Assassin_87

Clear racism? Show me what part of his own quoted speech is racist. Please, reply and show me. "Your games suck" isn't racism. Maybe he just doesn't think that what comes out of Japan these days is any good. Is that racism?

:|

A generalization and a stereo type about a certain culture of games isn't racism? Then what is? It sounds like he assaulted a japanese game developer in that article

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#49 savebattery
Member since 2009 • 3626 Posts

[QUOTE="savebattery"][QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"] The facts don't lie--Japan is not what it used to be in regards to its influence on gaming.Stevo_the_gamer

Dimished importance is far from irrelevance. Are you really saying that it wouldn't matter at all if Nintendo, Sony Computer Entertainment, Capcom, SEGA, Atlus, Konami, Namco, Tecmo-Koei, and Square Enix suddenly disappeared? The size of the Western markets far dwarfs that of the Japanese market, so anyone with a brain had to expect that Western publishers would eventually begin to eclipse Japanese ones. But Japan is still extremely relevant. It's where the majority of the support for dedicated handhelds comes from, it's where two of the three console manufacturers are headquartered, and it's still home to roughly half of the 20 biggest game publishers in the world.

Square Enix... Konami... Namco... Tecmo... even Capcom; merely shadows of their former companies. SCE has releazed Japan has little importance now, just look at the biggest games on the PS3. God of War, Infamous, Killzone, Motorstorm, Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet... need I go on? Are we seeing a common theme here? Where they are headquartered matters little if both of them are striving to bring in the biggest markets in gaming.

The fact of the matter is that there are still many franchises developed IN JAPAN that are successful worldwide, including: Super Mario Mario Kart The Legend of Zelda Gran Turismo Sonic the Hedgehog Street Fighter Tekken Virtua Fighter Dead or Alive Final Fantasy Animal Crossing Yakuza Metal Gear Resident Evil Demon's/Dark Souls Hot Shots Golf Kingdom Hearts Cooking Mama Super Monkey Ball Kirby Dead Rising Dynasty Warriors etc, etc, etc I accept that the importance and influence of Japanese publishers has diminished, but the above list of franchises alone should prove that it isn't irrelevant. In fact, in the handheld space Japanese developers are FAR MORE relevant than Western ones.
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jg4xchamp

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#50 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 63512 Posts

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

Gran Turismo 5 is technically the biggest game on the PS3, with regard to how you seem to be using the term "biggest" in this sentence.

Stevo_the_gamer

How often do PD make games? Exactly.

That doesn't suddenly negate his point. Poor time management aside GT5 did extremely well(and it's considered a disappointment to boot). Final Fantasy 13 and its awfulness(**** anyones opinion on this board, that game sucks) did very well sales wise. Resident Evil 5, Metal Gear Solid 4, Nintend's franchises, etc etc. Street Fighter 4 more or less kick started a fighting game renaissance.

If we're talking sales: The same japanese franchises that did great last gen, did great this gen. Hell some of em have benefited even more because they went multiplat. Do the major third parties have their own Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed in terms of sales? No not necessarily, but it's not like they are completely nonexistent.

If we're talking quality of the game design: Then you can definitely make a convincing argument for plenty of japanese designed videogames being exceptionally well made. But sure I would agree with you that clearly a bunch of japanese studios have been behind the curve, and I say that while still arguing the west isn't all that either. But it's clearly been doing better.