Console are not cheaper than PC.

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I_P_Daily

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#101 I_P_Daily
Member since 2015 • 16799 Posts

@latech84 said:
@i_p_daily said:

Well this thread backfired real quick, great job OP showing that not only are consoles cheaper they are also better lol.

How is it showing they(consoles) are better?, I have read every post and have not seen anything that proves that. A bunch of console fans saying they like consoles better does not mean or show they are better(what do you expect console fans to say?). What are you referring too with that claim?, other than your strong dislike for PC gaming making you say it.

Also can you at least admit that no matter what I think or you think, that which one is better is always going to be an opinion so nothing anyone says on here is going to show or prove one is better than the other as it depends on what you like and Consoles are better to you and PC is better to me, but not a universal fact as to which one is better than the other, as it will always be an opinion.

No, that's your opinion.

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Bluestars

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#102 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@MonsieurX:

Nothing is impossible

But pc gaming is rife,I know it,you know it

There is a reason pc online is free

HaH

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MonsieurX

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#103 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39515 Posts

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Nothing is impossible

But pc gaming is rife,I know it,you know it

There is a reason pc online is free

HaH

Because it's not a single company behind it wanting to suck people dry?

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Zaryia

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#104 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 12638 Posts

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Nothing is impossible

But pc gaming is rife,I know it,you know it

There is a reason pc online is free

HaH

PC online is by far the best online.

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IMAHAPYHIPPO

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#105 IMAHAPYHIPPO
Member since 2004 • 3614 Posts

@Pedro said:
@fedor said:

$240 for the monitor? What kind of 1080p bs is this?

$1 for every Hz. 😎

Alright, now that was just clever. Kudos.

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PinchySkree

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#106 PinchySkree
Member since 2012 • 1315 Posts

Regardless of cost, being stuck in a childproof operating system that can only do about 1% of the things I'm interested in would be like going back to the dark ages of gaming

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Ezekiel43

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#107 Ezekiel43
Member since 2017 • 2552 Posts

@PinchySkree said:

Regardless of cost, being stuck in a childproof operating system that can only do about 1% of the things I'm interested in would be like going back to the dark ages of gaming

You don't need a gaming PC to do 99 percent of the stuff you do, though. A toaster can do most of those things.

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Bluestars

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#108 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@zaryia:

HaH

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sealionact

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#109 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@zaryia: I'd pay to have a closed pc system to get rid of cheats....as it is, I'll pay for a cheat free console online experience. Except when I'm forced to cross play with PC players.

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Bluestars

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#110 Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@MonsieurX:

Riddled with cheaters,denial is futile

No bu bu bu buts,a “you right pc online gaming has a real problem with hackers” is the only correct reply

HaH

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joebones5000

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#111 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3063 Posts

@IMAHAPYHIPPO: my shit PC cpu is older than the console.

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Zaryia

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#112  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 12638 Posts

@bluestars said:

@zaryia:

HaH

@sealionact said:

@zaryia: I'd pay to have a closed pc system to get rid of cheats....as it is, I'll pay for a cheat free console online experience. Except when I'm forced to cross play with PC players.

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Riddled with cheaters,denial is futile

No bu bu bu buts,a “you right pc online gaming has a real problem with hackers” is the only correct reply

HaH

Well it's not that wide spread. If it was as much of an issue a significant majority of core competitive gaming and/or e-sports wouldn't be done on PC. Neither would MMOs or BR. At least one console would start eating PC's online market in a big way, but none do. Nothing comes remotely close to PC's mp revenue or player numbers.

Considering PC online has exponentially more players, exponentially more actively played competitive games, and a significantly higher skill ceiling - it's not a surprise it has the most cheaters. That's just simple stats.

It's like complaining about the MLB having more people juicing than your 12 year olds little league team.

It's not even fair how much better PC online is.

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MonsieurX

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#113 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39515 Posts

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Riddled with cheaters,denial is futile

No bu bu bu buts,a “you right pc online gaming has a real problem with hackers” is the only correct reply

HaH

Your experience =\= reality

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sealionact

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#114 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@zaryia: Sorry, that's just nonsense. Cheating on PC does not happen because theres more players, it happens because theres an entire industry dedicated to selling cheats for online PC games, and cheats play on PC not console because its virtually impossible to use aimbots/wallhacks etc on a system that doesnt allow side loading.

Even apart from the cheating issue, pc online is a pain in the butt. How many stores are there? Exclusives on each store? Once you've downloaded them, and put your credit card details into each, opened accounts and so on, you then cant crossplay between stores if theres exclusivity deals and it's much more involved to make parties. It's an actual minefield, and has gotten worse since I gave up on PC years ago.

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Zaryia

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#115  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 12638 Posts

@sealionact said:

@zaryia: Sorry, that's just nonsense. Cheating on PC does not happen because theres more players, it happens because theres an entire industry dedicated to selling cheats for online PC games, and cheats play on PC not console because its virtually impossible to use aimbots/wallhacks etc on a system that doesnt allow side loading.

Even apart from the cheating issue, pc online is a pain in the butt. How many stores are there? Exclusives on each store? Once you've downloaded them, and put your credit card details into each, opened accounts and so on, you then cant crossplay between stores if theres exclusivity deals and it's much more involved to make parties. It's an actual minefield, and has gotten worse since I gave up on PC years ago.

An entire industry dedicated to it because PC has exponentially more players, is played at an exponentially higher level, is viewed by exponentially more people, and has exponentially more active competitive games and e-sports scenes. Yes the open nature also is one of the reasons.

More stores means more competition. Better sales, more games, more players.

I simply can not make the switch to console online. I am not interested in playing pretty much only the latest casual military shooter and then waiting for the next one. I like having dozens of highly active MP games. Thumbstick on Shooters and MMO blows. Low FPS in MP blows (under 100fps). No competitive gaming blows. No e-sports scenes in the games I'm also playing blows. No good mmo, rts, tbs, sim, moba, blows.

It's just too many things to give up just to have a few less cheaters. I barely come across cheaters in the first place, so why give up 99% of the stuff I have just to play CoD with thumbsticks?

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Fedor

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#116 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 6877 Posts

ITT two insecure lems afraid of the PC platform. It's 2017 all over again.

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SolidGame_basic

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#117  Edited By SolidGame_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 26480 Posts

Someone can buy a Google Chromebook for $200 that plays Bejeweled. There you go, cheaper than consoles.

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Wizard

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#118 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 912 Posts

@NathanDrakeSwag: first of all, neither console is out yet. Compare prices when they release. There will be a $800-1200 build that will match the XSX. Even less if you buy used or shop smart.

Also, do you include the price of the TV with the consoles? No. So why include peripherals people already likely have? Especially because console players will be the ones having to upgrade their peripherals this time around. Fewer of them have high refresh rate or high resolution displays than PC enthusiasts.

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Bluestars

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#119  Edited By Bluestars
Member since 2019 • 1043 Posts

@MonsieurX:

Riddled,you know it,I know it

HaH

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joebones5000

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#121 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3063 Posts

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Riddled,you know it,I know it

HaH

Absolutely rife with cheating. I play sfv online and when I see master level players with 97% win rates when even capcom evo champs struggle to hit 70% win rates, I know they're using some sort of bots. It's demoralizing how much cheating there is in PC gaming.

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NathanDrakeSwag

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#122  Edited By NathanDrakeSwag
Member since 2013 • 13131 Posts

@wizard said:

@NathanDrakeSwag: first of all, neither console is out yet. Compare prices when they release. There will be a $800-1200 build that will match the XSX. Even less if you buy used or shop smart.

Also, do you include the price of the TV with the consoles? No. So why include peripherals people already likely have? Especially because console players will be the ones having to upgrade their peripherals this time around. Fewer of them have high refresh rate or high resolution displays than PC enthusiasts.

There will not be an $800 build this year that matches the XSX. $1200 maybe, but that's over twice the cost of the console and you don't have to build it yourself and you would have to constantly be looking out for part prices to go on sale. Fun...

People use TV's to watch movies, sports and shows. You can't just pretend it's only bought for gaming.

Monitors are primarily used for gaming. They are not considered a necessity electronic for most people anymore.

Peripherals have to be factored in for PC because consoles include a controller. You're not going to build an expensive PC to game with a Dollar Tree keyboard and mouse are you?

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sealionact

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#123 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@zaryia: That's an incredibly blinkered view... "An entire industry dedicated to it because PC has exponentially more players, is played at an exponentially higher level, is viewed by exponentially more people, and has exponentially more active competitive games and e-sports scenes. Yes the open nature also is one of the reasons."

The hacking industry would exist on PC and not console regardless of how many players were on either.....because it's only possible on pc. It's getting worse, and software houses can do very little about it as hacks become more and more subtle and sophisticated.

It's ridiculous to suggest having all those stores is somehow an advantage, when you can't even play a mp game with your friend if you bought it on different stores!

Another thing is parity, yes...playing at 4k 100fps is no doubt the way you prefer playing....but for the vast, vast majority of pc gamers who dont have a powerful rig, they start an mp game not only wondering if that headshot someone dropped them with was a cheat, but they start the game at a disadvantage because they have lower fps, draw distances and resolutions.

Dont take my word for it...ask yourself why streamers like Westie and Squid are saying they're meeting about 3-4 cheats every session they play, when they are dedicated PC gamers.

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Zaryia

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#124  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 12638 Posts

@sealionact said:

@zaryia: That's an incredibly blinkered view... "An entire industry dedicated to it because PC has exponentially more players, is played at an exponentially higher level, is viewed by exponentially more people, and has exponentially more active competitive games and e-sports scenes. Yes the open nature also is one of the reasons."

The hacking industry would exist on PC and not console regardless of how many players were on either.....because it's only possible on pc. It's getting worse, and software houses can do very little about it as hacks become more and more subtle and sophisticated.

It's ridiculous to suggest having all those stores is somehow an advantage, when you can't even play a mp game with your friend if you bought it on different stores!

Another thing is parity, yes...playing at 4k 100fps is no doubt the way you prefer playing....but for the vast, vast majority of pc gamers who dont have a powerful rig, they start an mp game not only wondering if that headshot someone dropped them with was a cheat, but they start the game at a disadvantage because they have lower fps, draw distances and resolutions.

Dont take my word for it...ask yourself why streamers like Westie and Squid are saying they're meeting about 3-4 cheats every session they play, when they are dedicated PC gamers.

Good for "westie and squid". But I barely come accross hackers.

I'm not willing give up having countless more active online games to play, far more online genres, far more competitive scenes, far more active communities, exponentially more e-sports, far higher fps, and kb/mouse just to reduce my 2% hacker rate to .5%.

Like I said before, It clearly can't be that big of a problem when the platform holds almost all of competitive and e-sports gaming. If it was, a large amount would bleed to consoles. But it doesn't.

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miiiiv

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#125  Edited By miiiiv
Member since 2013 • 931 Posts

PC gaming can be cheaper in the long run when factoring in online fees . You could have bought a PC with a i7 3770K coupeld with a Radeon 7970 (at the time both were previous gen from Intel and AMD) back in 2013 when the ps4/xbone released.

Given such PC would probably have cost twice as much as getting a console back then but factoring in online fees over the years as I said it could even out to the PC's advantage. And that PC is way superior to the consoles in terms of performance which equals better gameplay and graphics.

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sealionact

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#126 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@zaryia: Competive and esports on PC is no indication that there aren't huge issues. They're closely monitored, and often scrutinised by a live public...and even then theres been cheats in public arenas, and many players have been banned for trying to get an advantage.

If cheating was the only issue, that would be...well, a pretty big issue but as I've pointed out, theres numerous issues with PC online gaming, which makes your original claim extremely hard to back up.

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Zaryia

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#127  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 12638 Posts

@sealionact said:

@zaryia: Competive and esports on PC is no indication that there aren't huge issues. They're closely monitored, and often scrutinised by a live public...and even then theres been cheats in public arenas, and many players have been banned for trying to get an advantage.

If cheating was the only issue, that would be...well, a pretty big issue but as I've pointed out, theres numerous issues with PC online gaming, which makes your original claim extremely hard to back up.

There are issues. They aren't huge.

If the issues were huge, core competitive or e-sports on PC wouldn't be going up like a rocket and be 99% on PC. It would bleed off onto other platforms. But instead those platforms are just "wait for the newest military shooter (or BR) and then it dies off when the new one comes out". And even then you gotta play them on controller and low fps, ouch.

@sealionact said:

If cheating was the only issue, that would be...well, a pretty big issue but as I've pointed out, theres numerous issues with PC online gaming, which makes your original claim extremely hard to back up.

My original claim is extremely easy to back up due to numerical data. PC is free, it has far more active games, far more highly played online genres, far higher fps, far better gfx, far more gamers, far more competitive games, far larger and more communities, far more viewers, and controls 99% of e-sports.

I could reduce literally everything to do console online, just to experience a few less hackers. But I barely see them, so I don't care enough to play that shitty super bad online.

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xantufrog

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#128  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 13047 Posts

This cheating business always confuses me. I think its way blown out of proportion - I can't recall the last time I noticed a cheater. I want to say some games in the early 2000s. Maybe it's going on in the background of the games I play... but nothing that caught my eye or interfered with my experience. I'm assuming it's rampant on a handful of high profile mindless competitive trash games (Fortnite? Does that have a cheating problem?) - the type of game that draws a younger crowd and puts a lot of emphasis on trophies and rankings and shit (and thus encourages someone to steal evidence of experience rather than accrue it by just playing the game and having fun), and that's given the whole platform a bad rap.

If you want to just play a game online with friends - it's free (unlike consoles) and a clean experience. No issues for me. I refuse to pay for PSN and people who don't game on PC trying to tell me there's a cheating pandemic isn't going to get me to throw my money away on it.

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MonsieurX

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#129 MonsieurX
Member since 2008 • 39515 Posts

@bluestars said:

@MonsieurX:

Riddled,you know it,I know it

HaH

Cool opinion

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mrbojangles25

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#130  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 46929 Posts

A good PC is not cheaper than a console...

...but it is still a better value nonetheless.

@FinalFighters said:

i remember when i had an emachines PC too...good times.

Yeah me too. Went down to COSTCO and got the version with the zip drive lol. Could store a whopping 100 MB on those puppies.

@NathanDrakeSwag said:

I put a quick build together with XSX equivalent specs and it would be over $1700 minimum.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dGtrjp

This is before a monitor, desk, peripherals. And keep in mind consoles have 4K disc drives and come with a controller.

You think the xbox is coming with an 850 W power supply? Or will have as much performance as a $700 video card?

@dimebag667 said:

I've said it before and I guess I'll say it again; the PC vs console game is a waste of time and potential. Instead of consoles just being watered down budget PC's, they should put more emphasis on what they can do better... like LANs.

This is also how I feel.

To each their own. Consoles do some things better than PC (not sure what other than cost), PC better than consoles in other areas.

Consoles really need to stop trying to compete with PC though.

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EG101

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#131 EG101
Member since 2007 • 2090 Posts

If you're going to nickel and dime everything you spend on the console make sure you add the difference in your power bill for running that beast.

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rzxv04

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#132 rzxv04
Member since 2018 • 856 Posts

Never bought PS+ above $ 40 and also had a PS3 and VITA.

$ 400 + $ 180 PS+.

Protected my DS4 sticks immediately.

I've had much better time on my old PC but that's thanks to f2p mp games and mods and little to do with hardware power.

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Wizard

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#133 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 912 Posts

@NathanDrakeSwag:

There will not be an $800 build this year that matches the XSX.

A mid range ~$300 Ampere GPU + a Ryzen 3300x & MB + RAM/PSU and a 2.5 inch drive would be in the $800 dollar range and would be well competitive or better than the XSX.

I'm going to walk through the rest of your double standards.

"TV should not be included in cost because it's multi-purpose and most people have them."

You're Ignoring that TV's are actually pretty expensive if you want a decent one that offers playable input lag, far more expensive than a monitor. Yes, most people have a TV, but do they have a TV that will utilize the XSX's 4K capabilities and provide a smooth experience? Many do not, most are on 1080p 30/60hz cheapo panels. So yes, TV upgrades are a plenty going to be an expense for users this cycle. Also, you can use a TV as a monitor!

"You shouldn't use cheap peripherals on PC."

PC users can use virtually any controller from the previous two console generations with ease and acquire good ones for cheaper than a new controller.

"You can't just pretend TV's are for gaming."

Proceeds to claim monitors are mostly used for gaming, which is horribly, horribly incorrect.

Monitors aren't essential as much because people are buying laptops in home usage. Office usage is desktop dominated and is still the largest market for desktops and PC monitors.

The most realistic user is a console + TV + laptop. That's far more expensive than PC + monitor.

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Crimson_V

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#134 Crimson_V
Member since 2014 • 139 Posts
@sealionact said:

There isn't a console that costs 450 bucks today. An x1x runs games at 4k 60fps in some instances and costs...what...250 bucks? Find me an equivalent pc build for 250 bucks.

You'd struggle to find a semi-modern PC as bad as the x1x's, for example for the CPU you'd have to buy some ancient outdated pre phenom II amd CPU to achieve x1x's level of performance, +you'd struggle to find a PC that runs on VRAM as system RAM (i have only seen 1 once on linus tech tips)

If you want to find an x1x equivalent pc buy some ancient rig (were talking 50-100€ bargain bin used stuff), toss out the gpu and replace it with a x580 and bam you have your x1x levels of performance for a sub 250 (but used with the benefits of it being PC)

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sealionact

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#135 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@crimson_v: You're buying used stuff to match a new console?

I mean, if you people to take you seriously, be serious.

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sealionact

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#136 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@wizard: "A mid range ~$300 Ampere GPU + a Ryzen 3300x & MB + RAM/PSU and a 2.5 inch drive would be in the $800 dollar range and would be well competitive or better than the XSX."

You're not matching an xsx with that build, even allowing for all the components and peripherals you've omitted.

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LAtech84

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#137 LAtech84
Member since 2017 • 216 Posts

@sealionact said:

@wizard: "A mid range ~$300 Ampere GPU + a Ryzen 3300x & MB + RAM/PSU and a 2.5 inch drive would be in the $800 dollar range and would be well competitive or better than the XSX."

You're not matching an xsx with that build, even allowing for all the components and peripherals you've omitted.

It might or it might not, we will not know until they are both released, the rest is just speculation at this point.

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sealionact

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#138 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@latech84: Sorry, that's nonsense. Your build wont even work, and is still nowhere near a 12tflp machine. A $300 gpu?

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LAtech84

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#139 LAtech84
Member since 2017 • 216 Posts

@sealionact said:

@latech84: Sorry, that's nonsense. Your build wont even work, and is still nowhere near a 12tflp machine. A $300 gpu?

I think he was implying the rest of the parts would be in the build. Can you prove that with benchmarks? How do you know the performance of the not yet release $300 GPU? or the console for that matter? Until you can prove what you say with facts such as benchmarks, I will stand by what I said. If I end up being wrong I am OK with that, but that remains to be seen.

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clone01

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#140 clone01
Member since 2003 • 27954 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:
@NathanDrakeSwag said:

What GPU will you get? And what resolution/hz is your monitor?

totally irrelevant.

what im saying is, PC is in your hand. if you wanna play game on cheaper. can play, if you wanna need full performance, get expensive one.

Nvidia cards are more expensive but AMD cards are very affordable yet provide similar performance.

you will buy a PS5 to play Resident Evil 8. we wont.

No, I'll buy a PS5 to play games on a PS5.

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Wizard

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#141 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 912 Posts

@sealionact: If you think that the XSX it outperforming a $300 Ampere card I've got a condo to sell you.

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sealionact

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#142 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@wizard: Sounds interesting. Show me how a 300 buck Ampere card outperforms an xsx and I'll pick the keys up soon.

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Wizard

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#143 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 912 Posts

@sealionact: I'll show you a $50 dollar GPU that outperforms the XSX right now by that logic.

Moving past the "iTs nOt oUt yEt dUr", sorry buddy, a console has neither the cooling nor power to surpass an Nvidia xx60 series card from the current or forward generations. Your console is mid-low tier AMD hardware.

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#144 marleygamer  Online
Member since 2020 • 67 Posts

xbox = proper

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mtron32

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#145 mtron32
Member since 2006 • 4068 Posts

@joebones5000 said:

I'm not falling for the console is cheaper line of bull again this gen. Since dec 2013, my Xbox has cost me:

$400 for the console.

$300 for Xbox live.

$120 for game pass

$60 to replace a controller that stopped working.

$85 for new hdd for Xbox one to replace broken drive.

$30 for a new power supply for the if Xbox one.

My PC cost me $450 and still plays games better than my Xbox one.

My PC cost me about 4000 and I don't even game with it. ;)

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sealionact

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#146 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@wizard: Meh, I know an xsx will outperform anything you've mentioned, because the specs have been out quite a while. When your superior 300 buck gpu comes out, give me a call....until then, continue to speculate.

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#147 Crimson_V
Member since 2014 • 139 Posts

@sealionact said:

You're buying used stuff to match a new console?

I mean, if you people to take you seriously, be serious.

Over your head is where what i said went, as i said there's no modern equivalent that could match the X1X's terrible performance on the CPU side, even modern intel atoms and celerons are way better than it, and even if you managed to find one that's clocked low enough it still wouldn't be the same because of the single core/quad c performance to simple multi core performance ratio wouldn't match up the the consoles. (so in the real world it would perform differently (better) in most cases)

(or to be more precise there's no equivalent to it because the only machine on the market that uses vram as system ram has a way different CPU and iGPU than the x1x, and they can't be replaced with just anything)

so yeah if it has to be non used you'd have to look for some old stock low clock piledriver CPU that didn't sell for some reason (if you manage to find one it would most likely be sold for few euros).

If you are looking for garbage grade performance you have to look in the garbage bins that's how this works.

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sealionact

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#148  Edited By sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@crimson_v: Wow...the pc scene sounds so complicated. So what you're saying is that any modern low level PC sub 250 buck will run games at x1x level?

I asked you show me a pc that can run games at 4k for 250 bucks, with equivalent components. So far, you tried to sell me second hand pc parts....and even if you managed to trace them and build it, you'd still end up with an uglier, noisier second hand pc with components and/or peripherals missing.

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#149  Edited By lundy86_4  Online
Member since 2003 • 56002 Posts

@sealionact said:

@crimson_v: Wow...the pc scene sounds so complicated. So what you're saying is that any modern low level PC sub 250 buck will run games at x1x level?

Not from what I read. It's that you need to buy a second-hand CPU to be able to closely match X1X CPU performance... Otherwise, pay higher prices for a new, and discontinued product, as prices for outdated hardware tend to increase.

Still, you can't buy an X1X for around USD250. In the States, they cost USD400. If you weren't talking US, what currency were you talking?

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sealionact

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#150 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 5396 Posts

@lundy86_4: Yes, I was off with the price...I thought they dropped off since launch, but I could have sworn i saw them for 250 in a sale, may be wrong.

Cheapest i found now was 369 with a game, and it would still be a challenge to build a functional pc - with equivalent performance and components and gamepad.

Arguing that an x1x is so poor that you need to buy second hand parts to match it's performance is nonsense, because I asked him to provide a build....if you cant do it on budget using current components....well, I guess you cant do it, although 369 should get you pretty close.