Charging for On-line Gameplay is ridiculous

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JohnWinger

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#1 JohnWinger
Member since 2007 • 1903 Posts

On-line gaming has been free for many years on the PC, PS2, etc.

The Internet backbone as we've known it has been paid for about 1,000,000 times over with customers from around the world paying for monthly Internet bills.

So why is it that Microsoft has the conceit to put up toll booths on then Internet backbone and charge for On-line play?

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable, but that it not the case.

Most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues.

PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical, but it's free.

Microsoft is the only company that wants the milk the people for all its worth.

I'm not a fanboy. I love all the consoles. The 360 is still a great console with good games. I just think there is no reason to charge $50 a year for Xbox Live Gold.

It just goes to show you how low Microsoft will go.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#2 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative.  they provide a great service and game.  If you don't like it, don't play.
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musicalmac

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#3 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25098 Posts
While I don't agree with all your points, I'll defend to the death your right to say them.
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mgszelda1

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#4 mgszelda1
Member since 2004 • 7286 Posts
Some games had a lot of hackers though. But things r different with PS3 now b/c of home. Now they have a uniform online community and can share all their content of Home and put up advertising so that they can make money that way. Advertising is the biggest advantage Home has.
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Ontain

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#5 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
ps3 online is not nearly identical. and that's why it's free.
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kittykatz5k

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#6 kittykatz5k
Member since 2004 • 32249 Posts
$50 a year isn't that bad...MMORPG's cost $180 or so a year.
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Sparky04

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#7 Sparky04
Member since 2006 • 3390 Posts
The Ps3 online is not nearly identical because not all games have online support. On the 360 everygame has to have online connectivity of some sort and that's why I don't mind paying 50 dollars a year.
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88Ghost89

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#8 88Ghost89
Member since 2004 • 1618 Posts

Charging 11 dollars for batteries is rediculous.

XBL can charge you, I mean MS is a company and they need to make profit somewhere. Yeah it's better for it to be free, but what are you gonna do? Well...besides complain about it.

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phybaoptikz

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#9 phybaoptikz
Member since 2006 • 514 Posts

when you learn how to spell "rediculous" i will take you serious. 

 

 

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JohnWinger

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#10 JohnWinger
Member since 2007 • 1903 Posts

While I don't agree with all your points, I'll defend to the death your right to say them.musicalmac

 

I love Family Guy!!

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DaysAirlines

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#11 DaysAirlines
Member since 2006 • 9537 Posts
Don't pay for it then.
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dapmediainc

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#12 dapmediainc
Member since 2004 • 727 Posts

Here we go again. Another person that is cheap and does not know what the hell he's talking about.

I don't know if you noticed, but most of the multi platform games that came out for both consoles, PS3 had no online, but MS 360 did..

 

So I rather pay what, 4.19 a month for the best online game play.

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JohnWinger

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#14 JohnWinger
Member since 2007 • 1903 Posts

Xbox live offers many things that aren't available on PSN, and i strongly belive it is worth the $4.16 a month

If you cannot afford roughly $5 a month, then you shouldn't be playing video games, you have larger issues to handle.hummer700

Its not the idea of $50 being too much money. That's not my argument, but if you feel its okay for companys to keep throwing in miscellaneous charges here and there and screwing you over, then you win.

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Taz-Bone

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#15 Taz-Bone
Member since 2004 • 1388 Posts
Xbox Live is the best because people pay for it.
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musicalmac

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#16 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25098 Posts

[QUOTE="hummer700"]Xbox live offers many things that aren't available on PSN, and i strongly belive it is worth the $4.16 a month

If you cannot afford roughly $5 a month, then you shouldn't be playing video games, you have larger issues to handle.JohnWinger

Its not the idea of $50 being too much money. That's not my argument, but if you feel its okay for companys to keep throwing in miscellaneous charges here in there and screwing you over, then you win.

That's not exaclty what's going on. I'd rather pay a few bucks in order to get some first party dedicated servers.
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SecretPolice

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#17 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44368 Posts

     So please name a service that both protects and faciltates a great gaming invironment with a " Sure we give that for FREE " label and real world ethics?

     Here is a clue - To date, the PSU on MS seems to be the only on-line game of the PSO franchise to be ligit for the most part - lol;) ie. Not yet hacked to the max !

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foxhound_fox

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#18 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I am never going to pay to play games online. It should be included in the purchase of the software.

Especially with new games that cost $70 CAD.
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VoodooHak

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#19 VoodooHak
Member since 2002 • 15989 Posts

[QUOTE="hummer700"]Xbox live offers many things that aren't available on PSN, and i strongly belive it is worth the $4.16 a month

If you cannot afford roughly $5 a month, then you shouldn't be playing video games, you have larger issues to handle.JohnWinger

Its not the idea of $50 being too much money. That's not my argument, but if you feel its okay for companys to keep throwing in miscellaneous charges here and there and screwing you over, then you win.

If those "miscellaneous" charges go toward features that are worthwhile, then it's totally ok.

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rybe1025

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#20 rybe1025
Member since 2004 • 6362 Posts
360 has free online also called silver. .
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covhunter

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#21 covhunter
Member since 2004 • 946 Posts

when you learn how to spell "rediculous" i will take you serious.

 

 

phybaoptikz

 

No it actually is "Ridiculous".

 

On Topic: I don't have a problem paying for a decent online service. If it's stable and has good content then what's the problem? Sure free is nice but you shouldn't complain about paying a small fee for something like this. 

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Darth_Stalin

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#22 Darth_Stalin
Member since 2005 • 8681 Posts
If you think it is a rip-off. Then don't buy it. Stop telling yourself it is not worth it. PSN is not nearly identical. I don't mind paying 50 bucks a year.
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Vandalvideo

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#23 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative.  they provide a great service and game.  If you don't like it, don't play.sonicare
The methodology behind paying for wow and paying for xbox live are a little different. WIth WoW, you're paying for server upkeep which is required to even play the game. With xbox live yuo're pretty much paying for services and features found free on other platforms.
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VoodooHak

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#24 VoodooHak
Member since 2002 • 15989 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicare"]If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative. they provide a great service and game. If you don't like it, don't play.Vandalvideo


The methodology behind paying for wow and paying for xbox live are a little different. WIth WoW, you're paying for server upkeep which is required to even play the game. With xbox live yuo're pretty much paying for services and features found free on other platforms.

On other platforms but not standard or required across the whole platform... that's the difference. 

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donalbane

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#25 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your preferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, you should know that when the 360 launched, Live got dramatically better. 

Everyone wishes the things we want were free.  If Sony can deliver the same service free of charge, they should, but until they do, their service has to be free because nobody in their right mind would pay money for it's limited feature set.

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musicalmac

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#26 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25098 Posts

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PDR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight. 

donalbane
I quoted u, because it needed to be said again.
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alfy13

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#27 alfy13
Member since 2004 • 3600 Posts

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight. 

donalbane


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

 i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.

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TurboGuru

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#28 TurboGuru
Member since 2006 • 192 Posts

On-line gaming has been free for many years on the PC, PS2, etc.

The Internet backbone as we've known it has been paid for about 1,000,000 times over with customers from around the world paying for monthly Internet bills.

So why is it that Microsoft has the conceit to put up toll booths on then Internet backbone and charge for On-line play?

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable, but that it not the case.

Most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues.

PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical, but it's free.

Microsoft is the only company that wants the milk the people for all its worth.

I'm not a fanboy. I love all the consoles. The 360 is still a great console with good games. I just think there is no reason to charge $50 a year for Xbox Live Gold.

It just goes to show you how low Microsoft will go.

JohnWinger
A point to clarify .... the backbones are not 'bought' - instead ISPs pay a fee per month to use and recieve allocated bandwidth ... hence you as as a paying customer help the ISP make its payments on leasing the backbone! and no PSN isnt even nearly as close as to what xbl is ...
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2largeadults

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#29 2largeadults
Member since 2007 • 1608 Posts

On-line gaming has been free for many years on the PC, PS2, etc.

The Internet backbone as we've known it has been paid for about 1,000,000 times over with customers from around the world paying for monthly Internet bills.

So why is it that Microsoft has the conceit to put up toll booths on then Internet backbone and charge for On-line play?

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable, but that it not the case.

Most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues.

PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical, but it's free.

Microsoft is the only company that wants the milk the people for all its worth.

I'm not a fanboy. I love all the consoles. The 360 is still a great console with good games. I just think there is no reason to charge $50 a year for Xbox Live Gold.

It just goes to show you how low Microsoft will go.

JohnWinger
People will always pay for quality. I agree with you that free is the best price. But if you make a quality good, people will be willing to pay any price for it.
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phybaoptikz

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#30 phybaoptikz
Member since 2006 • 514 Posts
[QUOTE="phybaoptikz"]

when you learn how to spell "rediculous" i will take you serious.

 

 

covhunter

 

No it actually is "Ridiculous".

 

On Topic: I don't have a problem paying for a decent online service. If it's stable and has good content then what's the problem? Sure free is nice but you shouldn't complain about paying a small fee for something like this. 

yea, i know that. that is why i put it in quotes, i spelled it the way he spelled it.
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Vandalvideo

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#31 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="sonicare"]If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative. they provide a great service and game. If you don't like it, don't play.VoodooHak



The methodology behind paying for wow and paying for xbox live are a little different. WIth WoW, you're paying for server upkeep which is required to even play the game. With xbox live yuo're pretty much paying for services and features found free on other platforms.

On other platforms but not standard or required across the whole platform... that's the difference. 

Actually, these services are beginning to come standard on all PCs. Xfire comes standard with all new games, and most games have a ventrillo installer as well. Whether ot not its standard hardly constitutes a fee though. Paying for standardization is a BAD THING. They aren't giving you any choice in the matter.
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bezaire2005

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#32 bezaire2005
Member since 2005 • 3635 Posts

On-line gaming has been free for many years on the PC, PS2, etc.

The Internet backbone as we've known it has been paid for about 1,000,000 times over with customers from around the world paying for monthly Internet bills.

So why is it that Microsoft has the conceit to put up toll booths on then Internet backbone and charge for On-line play?

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable, but that it not the case.

Most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues.

PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical, but it's free.

Microsoft is the only company that wants the milk the people for all its worth.

I'm not a fanboy. I love all the consoles. The 360 is still a great console with good games. I just think there is no reason to charge $50 a year for Xbox Live Gold.

It just goes to show you how low Microsoft will go.

JohnWinger

Find me a more popular online console service that is cheaper than xbox live and I'll agree with you.  Until then, XBOX live is clearly doing what it needs to do to succeed.

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donalbane

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#33 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts
[QUOTE="donalbane"]

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight. 

alfy13


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

 i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.


You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.
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VoodooHak

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#34 VoodooHak
Member since 2002 • 15989 Posts

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running. (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.)

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system. Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality. You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like "PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood. Have you played 'most of the games?.' I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies. Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your preferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system. TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users. Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it. You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, you should know that when the 360 launched, Live got dramatically better.

Everyone wishes the things we want were free. If Sony can deliver the same service free of charge, they should, but until they do, their service has to be free because nobody in their right mind would pay money for it's limited feature set.

donalbane

To add to that....

Building an infrastructure where the community can regulate itself is great.  But in the offchance we need extra moderation, we know for sure that there are people actively monitoring feedback.  One thing not specifically stated is the matchmaking system that uses rep, zone and ignore/prefer status to match you up.

We also know that XBL is a closed, secure network that actively checks for modded consoles.

Also consider XBL's connectivity to the web.  I like being able to log into my account on xbox.com to check my messages and see what my friends are up to. 

I like that MS has resources whose job is to specifically connect with the community.  Major Nelson, Trixie... and the support they give to fan sites.

With all that, the fee is well justified

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xBALOx

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#35 xBALOx
Member since 2005 • 1194 Posts
a player of free MMORPGs and FPS says hello to MS fanboys and laughs later!
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#36 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25098 Posts
[QUOTE="donalbane"] Once again, I use facts and you respond with opinions because my facts are irreproachable. You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.

This is what you'll get from the aformentioned poster, and posters of the sort. Uneducated dribble. XBL is superior in ways peopel cannot understand until it's beaten into them with the words of the educated. And even then illumination manages to escape them...:?
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Pangster007

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#37 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

On-line gaming has been free for many years on the PC, PS2, etc.

The Internet backbone as we've known it has been paid for about 1,000,000 times over with customers from around the world paying for monthly Internet bills.

So why is it that Microsoft has the conceit to put up toll booths on then Internet backbone and charge for On-line play?

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable, but that it not the case.

Most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues.

PlayStation 3's On-line is nearly identical, but it's free.

Microsoft is the only company that wants the milk the people for all its worth.

I'm not a fanboy. I love all the consoles. The 360 is still a great console with good games. I just think there is no reason to charge $50 a year for Xbox Live Gold.

It just goes to show you how low Microsoft will go.

JohnWinger
As someone who's been PC gaming online, i'll have to agree.
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Redmoonxl2

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#38 Redmoonxl2
Member since 2003 • 11059 Posts

$50 a year isn't that bad...MMORPG's cost $180 or so a year.kittykatz5k

Neither is bad, telling you the truth. Playing a MMO is actually cheaper than buying 4 new games a year.

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VoodooHak

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#39 VoodooHak
Member since 2002 • 15989 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="sonicare"]If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative. they provide a great service and game. If you don't like it, don't play.Vandalvideo



The methodology behind paying for wow and paying for xbox live are a little different. WIth WoW, you're paying for server upkeep which is required to even play the game. With xbox live yuo're pretty much paying for services and features found free on other platforms.

On other platforms but not standard or required across the whole platform... that's the difference.



Actually, these services are beginning to come standard on all PCs. Xfire comes standard with all new games, and most games have a ventrillo installer as well. Whether ot not its standard hardly constitutes a fee though. Paying for standardization is a BAD THING. They aren't giving you any choice in the matter.

that's a matter of opinion.

When it comes to infrastructure of online gaming, I place standardization at a high premium.  Why?  Because I just want to put any game on a given platform into my disc tray and have it work.  And that's it.

Sure Xfire may come with new games, but is it a requirement?

The simple fact that you say "most" games use ventrillo is hardly a standard.  On the other hand, 360 games all support voice through the exact same service, all built into the games.... guaranteed. 

Again... when put in a brand new game, it should just work. 

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alfy13

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#40 alfy13
Member since 2004 • 3600 Posts
[QUOTE="alfy13"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight. 

donalbane


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

 i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.


You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.


see taht is why i quoted you to begin wiht. alot of the stuff you posted can be done free but yet you still defend it. i just do not understand why but you do. and once again you act as if nothing can improve over time. Your always acting like XBL never had problems. which i know for a fact alot of stuff i can do on my 360, i couldnt do it at launch but yet i still paid for it.

Look to me PSN has lots to improve but over the time psn has been out, you cant tell me that they havent done a good job improving their service which is still free.

I wish you let the fanboyism go man its not worth it. But being a pc gamer for 10yrs now and seeing what xbl offers for fee , should be free. will i contiunue paying for a gold account? the answer is yes but do i think i could be done free? yes .  do i think xbl is godly? the answer is no

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2largeadults

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#41 2largeadults
Member since 2007 • 1608 Posts
[QUOTE="donalbane"][QUOTE="alfy13"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running. (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.)

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system. Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality. You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood. Have you played 'most of the games?.' I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies. Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system. TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users. Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it. You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight.

alfy13


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.


You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.

see taht is why i quoted you to begin wiht. alot of the stuff you posted can be done free but yet you still defend it. i just do not understand why but you do. and once again you act as if nothing can improve over time. Your always acting like XBL never had problems. which i know for a fact alot of stuff i can do on my 360, i couldnt do it at launch but yet i still paid for it. Look to me PSN has lots to improve but over the time psn has been out, you cant tell me that they havent done a good job improving their service which is still free. I wish you let the fanboyism go man its not worth it. But being a pc gamer for 10yrs now and seeing what xbl offers for fee , should be free. will i contiunue paying for a gold account? the answer is yes but do i think i could be done free? yes .

Agreed. Since its inception, PSN has improved greatly and again, it's free. I'm sure a lot of people are willing to work through these growing pains because it is (key word here students) free!
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donalbane

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#42 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts

[QUOTE="kittykatz5k"]$50 a year isn't that bad...MMORPG's cost $180 or so a year.Redmoonxl2

Neither is bad, telling you the truth. Playing a MMO is actually cheaper than buying 4 new games a year.

I agree with that completely. WoW, for example, adds new content and balances gameplay consistently. The game never ends, and continues to improve over time, so it totally justifies the fee.
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dhjohns

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#43 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts
[QUOTE="alfy13"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running. (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.)

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system. Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality. You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood. Have you played 'most of the games?.' I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies. Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system. TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users. Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it. You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight.

donalbane


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.


You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.

Excellent! Great thought out posts that speak the truth. XBL rocks. It destroys PSN. I can see what my friends are doing, I can jump into their games. I was at home playing today and got a message from my friend who was at work. Can you do these things on PSN? Excellent post donalbane!
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Vandalvideo

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#44 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="sonicare"]If Blizzard wants to charge for WOW, that's their perrogative. they provide a great service and game. If you don't like it, don't play.VoodooHak



The methodology behind paying for wow and paying for xbox live are a little different. WIth WoW, you're paying for server upkeep which is required to even play the game. With xbox live yuo're pretty much paying for services and features found free on other platforms.

On other platforms but not standard or required across the whole platform... that's the difference.



Actually, these services are beginning to come standard on all PCs. Xfire comes standard with all new games, and most games have a ventrillo installer as well. Whether ot not its standard hardly constitutes a fee though. Paying for standardization is a BAD THING. They aren't giving you any choice in the matter.

that's a matter of opinion.

When it comes to infrastructure of online gaming, I place standardization at a high premium.  Why?  Because I just want to put any game on a given platform into my disc tray and have it work.  And that's it.

Sure Xfire may come with new games, but is it a requirement?

The simple fact that you say "most" games use ventrillo is hardly a standard.  On the other hand, 360 games all support voice through the exact same service, all built into the games.... guaranteed. 

Again... when put in a brand new game, it should just work. 

And for the most part these services are standardized on the PC by now. But thats beside the point. I could make the observation that you aren't guarenteed that every 360 owner uses live, as there is also Xbox Connect. The fact of the matter is that standardization comes at a price. Quality is greatly reduced. The features on the PC are much better using better codecs.
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SecretPolice

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#45 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44368 Posts
[QUOTE="donalbane"][QUOTE="alfy13"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

If there was a real good reason such as Quality of Service, then it would be quite understandable.

The main thing Microsoft's system has over Sony's is the fact that the guide button allows you to bring up friends lists whenever you like, see what your pals are playing, and chat with them no matter what they're doing, and all of this can be accomplshed without exiting whichever app you are running.  (I wont even go into the ability to access custom soundtracks no matter what you're doing, or the fact that you can stream your music from your computer's sizable hard drive without copying over a single megabyte to your console.) 

Furthermore, there are 3 levels of screening out obnoxious people: The Zone system, the Feedback system, and the Reputation system.  Thanks to these marvelous features, I play with a greater percentage of like-minded players than any online service I have ever used, and I come from the PC gaming world which was in fact free, but inferior to Live in all other respects.

The service is of a higher quality.  You would know this if you had a Live account and a 360, which I'm assuming you don't because you make ridiculous claims like  "layStation 3's On-line is nearly identical,"which it's most certainly not, and "most of the games on Xbox Live have lag issues," which is another falshood.  Have you played 'most of the games?.'  I have, and aside from the occasional slowdown (typically resulting from a player with a crappy broadband connection,) there are practically no problems.

 The Live vs PSN paradigm is much like the difference between honest to goodness TiVo and the PVR services offered by cable companies.  Sure the cable companies offer you the ability to record shows, but for a fee TiVo adapts to your prefferences and recommends shows based on an elaborate feedback system.  TiVo service costs money ($13/month,) but is superior in most respects, and you never hear about disatisfied TiVo users.  Just like I can tell you don't have Live... if you did, you'd have nothing but nice things to say about it.  You may have had Live back in the Xbox days, and are basing these statements off of those experiences, but lemme' tell ya', when the 360 launched, Live got a whole lot better overnight. 

alfy13


i quoted you because alot of the stuff you posted can improve over time for psn. psn right now is basically xbl when i got my 360 at launch. also i do recieve lag time to time while playing MP online, but then again pc, or any MP online will have lag time to time.

also i quoted you because you act as if no other service can improve or over time. if you did own a 360 at launch you know xbl was not as good as it is today. but yah i guess short term memory can do that to you. alot of the stuff that xbl offers can be done free, you know and i know it.

 i dont own a ps3 yer (saturday i will) but i have played RFOM on a friends ps3 , and did play online. the lag i recieved is the same lag i would get from playing any game on xbl which is a little lag at times. but i stll pay for xbl , but i tihnk it can be done free also.


You can't address my points on any real level, so you just spew more talk about the PS3's 'potential.' Live was better on day one of the 360 than PSN is 6 monthes later, if you want to go there. And my memory is just dandy, thanks. I'd be happy to denigrate your faculties in a future post if that's how you want conversations about the relative merits of competing online services to go down. When PSN is as good as Live, but free, I will praise it as superior. But until that day comes, anyone who has both services and uses them with any regularity agrees with me. The only people who bemoan Live are people who don't have it, or won't try it out of principle. Their loss... I just think of it as a fourth way of screening out obnoxious players.


see taht is why i quoted you to begin wiht. alot of the stuff you posted can be done free but yet you still defend it. i just do not understand why but you do. and once again you act as if nothing can improve over time. Your always acting like XBL never had problems. which i know for a fact alot of stuff i can do on my 360, i couldnt do it at launch but yet i still paid for it. Look to me PSN has lots to improve but over the time psn has been out, you cant tell me that they havent done a good job improving their service which is still free. I wish you let the fanboyism go man its not worth it. But being a pc gamer for 10yrs now and seeing what xbl offers for fee , should be free. will i contiunue paying for a gold account? the answer is yes but do i think i could be done free? yes .

          If someone has not put it to you bluntly - I will - Nothing in this world worthwhile is FREE !!  Yet for some unknown reason you are trying to put forth a notion that both $ony & Nintendo$ love you so much; they feel the need to give you the Free Bee - just wake up and use some common sense !;)

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2largeadults

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#46 2largeadults
Member since 2007 • 1608 Posts
If someone has not put it to you bluntly - I will - Nothing in this world worthwhile is FREE !! Yet for some unknown reason you are trying to put forth a notion that both $ony & Nintendo$ love you so much; they feel the need to give you the Free Bee - just wake up and use some common senseSecretPolice
You ought to tell that to the PC gamers who have enjoyed free online gaming for the better part of the last decade...
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dhjohns

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#47 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts
[QUOTE="SecretPolice"] If someone has not put it to you bluntly - I will - Nothing in this world worthwhile is FREE !! Yet for some unknown reason you are trying to put forth a notion that both $ony & Nintendo$ love you so much; they feel the need to give you the Free Bee - just wake up and use some common sense2largeadults
You ought to tell that to the PC gamers who have enjoyed free online gaming for the better part of the last decade...

A question, not an assumption 2 large: Does PC gaming offer everything XBL does? I don't think so. DO you have a unified friends list, can you see what games they are playing, can you join in on their games, can you send messages to gamers (I guess IM would cover this). There are several other things XBL does, but you get my point. Again these are questions 2large. I don't pretend to be a PC gamer (my lose, I know *damn you Crysis!!*) so that is why I ask, my initial reaction to these questions is that most answers are no.
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dhjohns

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#48 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts
[QUOTE="SecretPolice"] If someone has not put it to you bluntly - I will - Nothing in this world worthwhile is FREE !! Yet for some unknown reason you are trying to put forth a notion that both $ony & Nintendo$ love you so much; they feel the need to give you the Free Bee - just wake up and use some common sense2largeadults
You ought to tell that to the PC gamers who have enjoyed free online gaming for the better part of the last decade...

A question for you 2large: Does PC gaming offer everything XBL has? Do you have a unified friends list, can you see what games they are playing, can you join their games, can you send them messages (I guess IM would cover this). XBL offers much more than this but you get my point. Again it is a question. I do not pretend to be a PC gamer but I think the answer to most of my questions is no.
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Redmoonxl2

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#49 Redmoonxl2
Member since 2003 • 11059 Posts

[QUOTE="2largeadults"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"] If someone has not put it to you bluntly - I will - Nothing in this world worthwhile is FREE !! Yet for some unknown reason you are trying to put forth a notion that both $ony & Nintendo$ love you so much; they feel the need to give you the Free Bee - just wake up and use some common sensedhjohns


You ought to tell that to the PC gamers who have enjoyed free online gaming for the better part of the last decade...


A question, not an assumption 2 large: Does PC gaming offer everything XBL does? I don't think so. DO you have a unified friends list, can you see what games they are playing, can you join in on their games, can you send messages to gamers (I guess IM would cover this). There are several other things XBL does, but you get my point. Again these are questions 2large. I don't pretend to be a PC gamer (my lose, I know *damn you Crysis!!*) so that is why I ask, my initial reaction to these questions is that most answers are no.

So standardization equals better? Personally I find that personalization is better on all fronts. I want to be able to control who enters my voice chat server, who messages me and I love the fact I can access a personal gaming website/forum created by me on the fly to get friends together. I like control and I like to be in an environment that lets me feel like I'm in control.

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Pangster007

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#50 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
A question, not an assumption 2 large: Does PC gaming offer everything XBL does? I don't think so. DO you have a unified friends list, can you see what games they are playing, can you join in on their games, can you send messages to gamers (I guess IM would cover this). There are several other things XBL does, but you get my point. Again these are questions 2large. I don't pretend to be a PC gamer (my lose, I know *damn you Crysis!!*) so that is why I ask, my initial reaction to these questions is that most answers are no.dhjohns
Yes, PC gaming does offer all those.