Carmack: VR "coasting on novelty", Mobile is the future.

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loco145

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#1 loco145
Member since 2006 • 12226 Posts

John Carmack has impressed the need for developers to push beyond the "novelty" factor that continues to dominate the software content on VR platforms.

Speaking at the close of Oculus Connect last week, the company's CTO told the crowd that, as a community, VR developers, "need to be harder on ourselves." In particular, he implied that a lot of VR software doesn't offer the same value to consumer as a non-VR experience.

"We are coasting on novelty, and the initial wonder of being something people have never seen before," he continued. "But we need to start judging ourselves. Not on a curve, but in an absolute sense. Can you do something in VR that has the same value, or more value, than what these other [non-VR] things have done?"

Elsewhere in his closing keynote, Carmack also played booster for mobile VR, which he described as "the future" of the medium, reminding the audience that, "it's still not easy to make a Gear VR app."

Source.

The whole Note 7 fiasco might have given PSVR some borrowed time, but is just that.

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dynamitecop

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#2  Edited By dynamitecop
Member since 2004 • 6395 Posts

Flat out, VR needs real games, not VR games, real games with VR functionality.

VR is not a gimmick, what is a gimmick is the software being produced for it.

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deactivated-583c85dc33d18

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#3 deactivated-583c85dc33d18
Member since 2016 • 1619 Posts

It's why I'm not an early adopter of the tech. It looks like mostly shovelware releasing so far.

Coasting on novelty is also why the Wii and Kinect ultimately failed to last. Too few legitimate uses of the tech in between mountains of doodooberry game released.

My feeling though is that the Wii and Kinect were just not good techs, but had room for improvement. It'll be crucial for the VR device makers to really stick with improving the tech to ensure that devs can actually make legitimate high value games.

Right now VR is in a grey area. It's reminiscent of those consoles prior to the NES (and the Atari somewhat). Game devs were experimenting as best they could, but the tech ultimately was too poor to provide anything of substance.

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Shewgenja

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#5  Edited By Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

@dynamitecop said:

Flat out, VR needs real games, not VR games, real games with VR functionality.

VR is not a gimmick, what is a gimmick is the software being produced for it.

I.. I.. I. . . Agree? with. . . you?

Between this and Glenn Beck pledging support to Hillary today, I think the apocalypse is upon us.

I LOVE the novelty of VR and think that PSVR is launching on the right foot, but the overall picture is that we are a year into both Oculus and Vive being out and there is little in the way of a full game. There's a very real danger that "VR game" is going to go from nifty to stanky unless some big games step up and show what can be done with the medium. VR, as a technology, is great. The games for it need to be objectively compelling, or else the potential will be wrung out of it before people are willing to give it a chance again. I take heart in something like Resident Evil, Ace Combat, and Gran Turismo using VR. If developers and publishers can shift from treating VR like a low budget experiment, it will make that turn.

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#6 Pray_to_me
Member since 2011 • 4041 Posts

Amazingly I agree with NyaDC. VR should have been compatible with conventional gaming software. An innovation without a practical use is a gimmick.

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#7 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 45680 Posts

People should stop saying stuff like "X is the future"

It's really starting to bother me. It's not like people will stop PC or console gaming and move on to mobiles. This industry should get a clue.

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osan0

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#8 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17722 Posts

@dynamitecop: indeed. VR has a content problem at the moment. plenty of experiments but it needs full games made for it.

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#9  Edited By nygamespotter
Member since 2016 • 523 Posts

Absolutely agree. VR is a fad, it'll come and go. Mobile is here to stay.

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rollermint

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#10 rollermint
Member since 2010 • 632 Posts

I'm still not comfortable with the idea of having a bright display right in front of my eyeballs.

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oflow

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#11 oflow
Member since 2003 • 5185 Posts

These 'mobile is the future guys' need to give it a rest. It might be the future if cash grabbing but not gaming. No matter how good mobile hardware gets, desktop stuff will still be better.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#12 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26627 Posts

@Shewgenja said:
@dynamitecop said:

Flat out, VR needs real games, not VR games, real games with VR functionality.

VR is not a gimmick, what is a gimmick is the software being produced for it.

I.. I.. I. . . Agree? with. . . you?

Between this and Glenn Beck pledging support to Hillary today, I think the apocalypse is upon us.

I LOVE the novelty of VR and think that PSVR is launching on the right foot, but the overall picture is that we are a year into both Oculus and Vive being out and there is little in the way of a full game. There's a very real danger that "VR game" is going to go from nifty to stanky unless some big games step up and show what can be done with the medium. VR, as a technology, is great. The games for it need to be objectively compelling, or else the potential will be wrung out of it before people are willing to give it a chance again. I take heart in something like Resident Evil, Ace Combat, and Gran Turismo using VR. If developers and publishers can shift from treating VR like a low budget experiment, it will make that turn.

Well, the big problem is that it's such a niche market, and adapting a full-fledged game to VR might result in a loss of time and budget. The market just isn't there, and with that, it'll probably just remain a novelty.

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aigis

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#13 aigis
Member since 2015 • 7355 Posts

If mobile is the future, its a very dim one

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DragonfireXZ95

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#14 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26627 Posts

@aigis said:

If mobile is the future, its a very dim one

He only said it was the future for VR. You are taking it out of context.

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aigis

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#15  Edited By aigis
Member since 2015 • 7355 Posts

@DragonfireXZ95 said:
@aigis said:

If mobile is the future, its a very dim one

He only said it was the future for VR. You are taking it out of context.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but I wouldnt want vr to focus on mobile right now. They are trying to hit a big audience, but they should start with a reliable base first and I think thats what standard pc/console games can offer. Even later though, I feel like it would be weird

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#16  Edited By Mr_Huggles_dog
Member since 2014 • 7805 Posts

There's potential passed games for VR.

Besides mobile isnt the future...it's the now. So he's no Nostrodomus.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#17 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26627 Posts

@aigis said:
@DragonfireXZ95 said:
@aigis said:

If mobile is the future, its a very dim one

He only said it was the future for VR. You are taking it out of context.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but I wouldnt want vr to focus on mobile right now. They are trying to hit a big audience, but they should start with a reliable base first and I think thats what standard pc/console games can offer. Even later though, I feel like it would be weird

That's only what he thinks. It's currently being marketed to PC and console gamers, but Carmack thinks it'll be only successful on the mobile front. It's really just a prediction.

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#18  Edited By QuadKnight
Member since 2015 • 12916 Posts

Eh, I think he should stick with software side of things and leave hardware prediction to the experts. He's a genius and I respect him but he's no Nostradamus.

VR's problem is a software problem, once devs finally get comfortable making VR games we should get some killer apps and quality titles. Mobile isn't the future, it's the present. I do agree with him that a lot of tech demos are being made now instead of actual games. I think that's devs testing the waters to see what works and what they can get away with. With time real fully featured games will arrive.

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#19 babyjoker1221
Member since 2015 • 1313 Posts

It's kind of a cycle with this isn't it?

VR needs good full fledged games in order to thrive.

Publishers and developers need a populated platform to develop games for.

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#22  Edited By nutcrackr
Member since 2004 • 13032 Posts

No gamers => No budget => No big budget games => No gamers.

VR needs to get away from gimmicks, but I only see that happening in isolated cases.

We're at 6 months and Steam has VR at 0.31% which is abysmal when many industry experts expected 2-5% by year one. For those playing at home, that means that to meet their worst predictions it needs to sell roughly 6x more units than it has to date. Some even said 10% rofl.

VR units are in abundance, people aren't buying.

PSVR could break the trend, the lower price might help. We will see in early 2017.

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#23  Edited By deactivated-60bf765068a74
Member since 2007 • 9558 Posts

YES if carmack says Gear mobile VR is the future I BELIEVE carmack i grew up with carmack and doom.

What he says goes imo. PSVR will fail Gear VR from samsung will succeeed im with carmack im with samsung not sony.

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#24 FLOPPAGE_50
Member since 2004 • 4500 Posts

@dynamitecop said:

Flat out, VR needs real games, not VR games, real games with VR functionality.

VR is not a gimmick, what is a gimmick is the software being produced for it.

Agree.

I was on the Sony bandwagon until they split up the development of games.. why split PS4/VR games.. combine them you dumb fools, you have the money.

don't let this forum fool you, most consumers assume the worst and try to be safe, at the moment VR is just a gimmick, a phase.. something new.. entry technology... In canada, that shit costs 700 dolllars, none of my hardcore cow friends are going to buy it.

Sony should have said **** the VR, and put all their money and dev power to making more PS4 exclusives.

There is still time, **** VR.. put it in the backburner and make PSPro your priority with games.

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#25 gago-gago
Member since 2009 • 12138 Posts

I agree with VR is a novelty and it will wear off sooner or later. But I don't agree with mobile gaming is the future.

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#26 Litchie  Online
Member since 2003 • 34330 Posts

It's also too expensive and needs too powerful hardware.

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#27  Edited By pelvist
Member since 2010 • 8988 Posts

Carmack is hyping mobile vr because its the way Oculus are going and he put all his eggs in Oculus basket.

Im pretty sure either HTC or Valve have a patent on wireless VR to PC so that could be why Oculus have taken the mobile route for wireless VR.