Blizzard Workers Share Salaries in Revolt Over Wage Disparities

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uninspiredcup

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#51  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 41567 Posts

@phbz said:

@uninspiredcup: Also doesn't change the fact that humans have the natural capacity to debate and change dynamics within hierarchical structures, like they've done since forever.

Key word.

When structures change in pretty much every-case, it's specifically because they move up that hierarchical structure from "pleb" status with all the benefits that come with it.

Even someone like Oliver Cromwell who, was on-paper all about dismantling that idea of the privileged royal hierarchy, eventually went right into that mentality himself.

Gandhi as well, incredibly evil. Up there with Hitler.

If we didn't follow it, we'd still be a sex stain in a primordial pool, bubbling away. Because that's how we get shit done. "We are all equal" is really just an idealistic illusion that will never come to fruition, so, give up on that.

Regardless, if we are applying a "what is right" mentality rather "than what is efficient", on the initial argument, these people, directly or indirectly are helping with this kind of shit, along with a whole bunch of other shit.

The same wanted, natural capacity for empathy isn't being afforded towards their targeted audience, they operate part of that system, simply wanting a better piece of the pie.

So, eh. Fuckem. Let Bobby get a nice new Yacht.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#52  Edited By Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 1421 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@Archangel3371 said:

@phbz: Should probably eat other people’s children as well because you know, nature. 😅

It's funny you bring that hyperbole up, like it's ridiculous

We literally did and in extreme circumstance, do that. Even here on my doorstep, when Edward Bruce invaded Ireland, they were that desperate for food they dug up the dead to consume.

That's survival. And funnily enough ho-ho, is baked into nature right up until present day

Using earlier stages of development, or the most extreme example possible doesn't really change the simple argument that hierarchy is the norm. Everywhere.

It's a good point: total rule by union is unsustainable, and, in every historical case we have, has collapsed into dictatorship to combat falling production and globally uncompetitive economies. Personally, I don't think offshoring would at all be an unrealistic outcome of unrealistic pay demands. You're right - human nature isn't a factor you can just disregard in favour of idealism.

In the case of EA/Blizzard, though, we're talking about a company whose shortsighted, aggressive monetisation practices it is that have become the real threat to the overall health of the video game industry. When their revenue is so great and yet their product, as you point out, is massively unpopular among customers, I'm not sure who's going to fight for the survival of shareholders and upper management over the wage demands of employees who once made genuinely popular and enjoyable games. Industrial tension in mismanaged companies is also human nature, no matter how unhealthy the results might be in the long term.

*I meant Activision. Don't know why I keep writing EA.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#53 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Social animals have hierarchies, that's known. But that "fuckem" logic can be applied to slavery too. "Fuckem let him have his plantation".

This just to say that just because hierarchies are natural in our spices that doesn't mean we shouldn't question how they work. Slavery is pretty much something that occurred/occurrs naturally in our societies across the globe. It's also very efficient while not feeling right, should we do the efficient thing?

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uninspiredcup

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#54  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 41567 Posts

@phbz said:

@uninspiredcup: But that "fuckem" logic can be applied to slavery too. "Fuckem let him have his plantation".

Brutal 19th century slavery and a paid, comparatively luxurious-optional-well-paid job are two different things my beloved freind.

Indeed even using this strawman, the term "Uncle Tom" is used within such communities as a derogatory term.

Famously Muhammad Ali used the term to antagonize Joe Fraser, to which Joe Fraser responded by permanently ending his career.

Completely off topic here, but who cares really, this documentary is amazing -

Loading Video...

In general, wither this particular term is deserved or not, no comment. But something something...

Working for such companies who are, in no uncertain terms, predatory. Is either being complicit, or being willfully ignorant. Neither of which being excusable.

Having the gall to expect public sympathy? Get fucked.

Although sure gaming journos will line up to defend them, more so than they do the actual consumers being exploited, by them.

Jason Schierer obviously. The wiener.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#55 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

@uninspiredcup: But the fight for better working conditions and pay should, and historically is, applied for "optional" jobs too (some consider slavery optional too but I won't go there).

I mean, even overpaying higher structures while underpaying lower ones is an option taken by the higher ones, and the excuse of having to overpay to achieve higher results doesn't hold ground when the top people reward themselves with bonus even when underperforming. Damn, these people don't even get fired, they fail sideways or upwards because they protect each other.

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SecretPolice

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#56 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 36655 Posts

:P

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Maroxad

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#57 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.
  • WoW went from a growing MMO, to shrinking, to reaching its lowest mark. And only after a ton of pressure after years of campaigning from the fans. They finally released WoW classic, allowing the flailing mmo to see growth again.
  • StarCraft lost its relevance in the esports market.
  • Overwatch, came and went, started out good, but a series of bad decisions resulted in a loss of interest.
  • Heroes of the Storm came and died.
  • WarCraft 3 reforged, was a horribly mismanaged game, and sank as a result of it.

Kotick does not deserve 40 million a year, he deserves a pink slip. Blizzard's talented programmers and artists should not have to put up with a piece of crap like Kotick.

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Icarian

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#58 Icarian
Member since 2004 • 1941 Posts

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

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mrbojangles25

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#59 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 47879 Posts

@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.
  • WoW went from a growing MMO, to shrinking, to reaching its lowest mark. And only after a ton of pressure after years of campaigning from the fans. They finally released WoW classic, allowing the flailing mmo to see growth again.
  • StarCraft lost its relevance in the esports market.
  • Overwatch, came and went, started out good, but a series of bad decisions resulted in a loss of interest.
  • Heroes of the Storm came and died.
  • WarCraft 3 reforged, was a horribly mismanaged game, and sank as a result of it.

Kotick does not deserve 40 million a year, he deserves a pink slip. Blizzard's talented programmers and artists should not have to put up with a piece of crap like Kotick.

Not sure how long Kotick has been in charge, but I suggest you go look at Actision-Blizzard's stock. It was at 9.50/share coming out of the great recession around 2009 and is now at a high of about 87/share.

I dislike Kotick as much as anyone that appreciates games, but you can't deny the company has done well financially under his leadership.

He is not going anywhere.

With that said, a lot of that might be Activision, and not Blizzard.

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Maroxad

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#60  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.
  • WoW went from a growing MMO, to shrinking, to reaching its lowest mark. And only after a ton of pressure after years of campaigning from the fans. They finally released WoW classic, allowing the flailing mmo to see growth again.
  • StarCraft lost its relevance in the esports market.
  • Overwatch, came and went, started out good, but a series of bad decisions resulted in a loss of interest.
  • Heroes of the Storm came and died.
  • WarCraft 3 reforged, was a horribly mismanaged game, and sank as a result of it.

Kotick does not deserve 40 million a year, he deserves a pink slip. Blizzard's talented programmers and artists should not have to put up with a piece of crap like Kotick.

Not sure how long Kotick has been in charge, but I suggest you go look at Actision-Blizzard's stock. It was at 9.50/share coming out of the great recession around 2009 and is now at a high of about 87/share.

I dislike Kotick as much as anyone that appreciates games, but you can't deny the company has done well financially under his leadership.

He is not going anywhere.

With that said, a lot of that might be Activision, and not Blizzard.

I wouldnt be surprised if it was. Since a lot of blizzard's brands seem to be losing relevance rather than gaining it.

The company is doing well for sure, but I do fear that due to recent developments inthe company the Blizzard side might find itself sinking soon. And most of it being due to mismanagement from the higher ups.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#61 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 1421 Posts

@Icarian said:

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

That's lovely. Burglars can draw up a whole itinerary before even leaving the house.

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mrbojangles25

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#62 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 47879 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Maroxad said:

...

...

With that said, a lot of that might be Activision, and not Blizzard.

I think that is the thing.

It mostly comes down to Acitivision rather than the blizzard side. Because at least from a consumer perspective, I don't know how well blizzard are probbaly in quite a tight spot.

If we are lucky they'll pull a Bungie and become independent. Wouldn't that be nice lol?

A guy can dream, right?

I Don't think the other half of Activision-Blizzard would be OK with that, WoW is still a cash cow and Blizzard owns some super important franchises for gamin as a whole.

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Maroxad

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#63  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Maroxad said:

...

...

With that said, a lot of that might be Activision, and not Blizzard.

I think that is the thing.

It mostly comes down to Acitivision rather than the blizzard side. Because at least from a consumer perspective, I don't know how well blizzard are probbaly in quite a tight spot.

If we are lucky they'll pull a Bungie and become independent. Wouldn't that be nice lol?

A guy can dream, right?

I Don't think the other half of Activision-Blizzard would be OK with that, WoW is still a cash cow and Blizzard owns some super important franchises for gamin as a whole.

WoW is still a cash cow, but its subscriber base was falling heavily, since mid WotLK. To the point where they didn't even show the subscription numbers for the game anymore leading some people to suspect that competitors like FF14 had surpassed it in active subscriptions.

Now with WoW Classic, WoW should be at the top again, regardless of whether it was in the lead before or not. And that was a product the Company insisted on NOT releasing.

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Mozelleple112

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#64 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7642 Posts

What kind of BS article is this? Of course the CEO of one of the largest companies in the world makes an 8 figure salary, and what the heck do game testers expect to get paid? Get educated and get a better job lol.

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mrbojangles25

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#65 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 47879 Posts

@Mozelleple112 said:

What kind of BS article is this? Of course the CEO of one of the largest companies in the world makes an 8 figure salary, and what the heck do game testers expect to get paid? Get educated and get a better job lol.

normally I'd agree with you, but some of the people there make it sound especially bad.

Like I said earlier, I'd need to see the list. Being "California broke" is a lot different than being "Everywhere else poor".

You can't afford a house making 60k a year here. If these people are still pursuing the American Dream making so little, that would explain why they're skipping meals.

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Mozelleple112

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#66 Mozelleple112
Member since 2011 • 7642 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Yeah, well don't move to California and expect to buy a house in down town LA or San Francisco worker as a GAME tester or customer service...

I live in an area where I paid $12 750 per square foot of living space... (How does that compare to California?) but I wouldn't move here if I was working in customer service, and wouldn't complain about engineers making $100k or CEO making $40m

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TheGreatChomp

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#67 TheGreatChomp
Member since 2020 • 1067 Posts

@uninspiredcup: weak argument, try better.

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dzimm

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#68  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.

I just want to make a note here: the only people who think Path of Exile "trounced" Diablo 3 are Path of Exile fanboys. The fact is, Diablo 3 is one of Blizzard's biggest critical and financial successes. It has received consistently positive reviews, not just for its original PC release but on every subsequent release on multiple platforms, It was at the time of release Blizzard's most successful launch title and the fastest selling PC game in video game history selling nearly 4-million copies in the first 24-hours, and by 2015, it had already sold a whopping 30-million copies worldwide across all platforms. I would not be the least bit surprised if that number is over 40-million today (it was most recently released on the Nintendo Switch where it saw brisk sales). It also continues to be one of the top live-streamed games.

So, yeah, if that's getting "trounced", I wonder what success looks like?

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Maroxad

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#69  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

@dzimm said:
@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.

I just want to make a note here: the only people who think Path of Exile "trounced" Diablo 3 are Path of Exile fanboys. The fact is, Diablo 3 is one of Blizzard's biggest critical and financial successes. It has received consistently positive reviews, not just for its original PC release but on every subsequent release on multiple platforms, It was at the time of release Blizzard's most successful launch title and the fastest selling PC game in video game history selling nearly 4-million copies in the first 24-hours, and by 2015, it had already sold a whopping 30-million copies worldwide across all platforms. I would not be the least bit surprised if that number is over 40-million today (it was most recently released on the Nintendo Switch where it saw brisk sales). It also continues to be one of the top live-streamed games.

So, yeah, if that's getting "trounced", I wonder what success looks like?

Diablo 3 initially sold well because of its marketing and brand recongition due to Diablo 2. It was HEAVILY panned by the playerbase.

Top viewed games? Really, let's see here, at the type of typing this

Diablo 3 has 569 viewers,

Path of Exile has 6300 viewers.

Path of exile has over 10 times more viewers. Blizzard thanks to a lot of bad decisions, lost their crown to a group of fans, who despite being significantly less technically proficient, wasn't hammered down by decisions no one really wanted.

On a personal anecdote, I have been playing D3 lately after someone wanted to play it with me. On the switch, the online is pretty much dead. Even when I played on PC a few years ago, I barely saw any other players. It really felt like a single player game.

The only things the game got over PoE is the Paragon levelling system and the smooth the engine is.

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plageus900

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#70 plageus900
Member since 2013 • 3065 Posts

I had a shitty job once. I left and got a better job.

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#71 SOedipus
Member since 2006 • 12521 Posts
@plageus900 said:

I had a shitty job once. I left and got a better job.

You can do that?!?

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Icarian

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#72 Icarian
Member since 2004 • 1941 Posts

@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

That's lovely. Burglars can draw up a whole itinerary before even leaving the house.

Lucky for us then that we don't have burglars. Not every country is like wild wild west.

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Archangel3371

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#73 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 32010 Posts

Nothing wrong with people at that top making more then people at the bottom. The problem is that the wage disparity is so obscenely disproportionate. What ever happened to “trickle down economics”, “a high tide raises all boats”, etc., etc.? Oh yeah it’s just more bullshit that the have all’s tell to the have not’s so that they can keep hoarding all the money, more money then they could ever spend in a lifetime.

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dzimm

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#74 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@dzimm said:
@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.

I just want to make a note here: the only people who think Path of Exile "trounced" Diablo 3 are Path of Exile fanboys. The fact is, Diablo 3 is one of Blizzard's biggest critical and financial successes. It has received consistently positive reviews, not just for its original PC release but on every subsequent release on multiple platforms, It was at the time of release Blizzard's most successful launch title and the fastest selling PC game in video game history selling nearly 4-million copies in the first 24-hours, and by 2015, it had already sold a whopping 30-million copies worldwide across all platforms. I would not be the least bit surprised if that number is over 40-million today (it was most recently released on the Nintendo Switch where it saw brisk sales). It also continues to be one of the top live-streamed games.

So, yeah, if that's getting "trounced", I wonder what success looks like?

Diablo 3 initially sold well because of its marketing and brand recongition due to Diablo 2. It was HEAVILY panned by the playerbase.

Top viewed games? Really, let's see here, at the type of typing this

Diablo 3 has 569 viewers,

Path of Exile has 6300 viewers.

Path of exile has over 10 times more viewers. Blizzard thanks to a lot of bad decisions, lost their crown to a group of fans, who despite being significantly less technically proficient, wasn't hammered down by decisions no one really wanted.

On a personal anecdote, I have been playing D3 lately after someone wanted to play it with me. On the switch, the online is pretty much dead. Even when I played on PC a few years ago, I barely saw any other players. It really felt like a single player game.

The only things the game got over PoE is the Paragon levelling system and the smooth the engine is.

Yeah, the "it only sold well because of hype" rationalization would explain initial sales but not the continued success nearly a decade after its initial release. And panned by players? So what when it sold an average of 10-million copies a year for its first three years and continues to sell well today? PC games are almost non-existent on store shelves these days, but you can still find brand new boxed copies of Diablo III selling for $20. That's extraordinary for an 8-year old game! Stores wouldn't stock it if it wasn't making a profit. And, of course, it continues to be available for every other major platform.

I don't know where you're getting your streaming view numbers from, so no comment.

As for online play, yeah, it's pretty dead on consoles because the console version is intended primarily for offline and couch co-op play, and most people who do play online only play with their friends. But on the PC side, there are no shortage of people to play with in public games, especially if you're a high level player. Newbies just starting out at level one might have a tough time finding a pick-up game, but folks running high level bounties and greater rifts have plenty of company.

The point, of course, is that Diablo 3 was hardly "trounced" by Path of Exile and is one of Blizzard's biggest successes. That's a fact.

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#75 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 1421 Posts

@Icarian said:
@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

That's lovely. Burglars can draw up a whole itinerary before even leaving the house.

Lucky for us then that we don't have burglars. Not every country is like wild wild west.

I'm just messing. Finland's a very fine country and much respected where I'm at. Never personally had the chance to visit but my family's in awe of the place and has spent a good amount of time out there. One of us even went as far as to import a Karelian Bear Dog as a historical tribute. Beautiful animal, and half Laika too.

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Icarian

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#76 Icarian
Member since 2004 • 1941 Posts

@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:
@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

That's lovely. Burglars can draw up a whole itinerary before even leaving the house.

Lucky for us then that we don't have burglars. Not every country is like wild wild west.

I'm just messing. Finland's a very fine country and much respected where I'm at. Never personally had the chance to visit but my family's in awe of the place and has spent a good amount of time out there. One of us even went as far as to import a Karelian Bear Dog as a historical tribute. Beautiful animal, and half Laika too.

Okay. That's great. We've our own issues, but transparency in salaries isn't one of them in my opinion. I believe in Finnish idea that if two people have similar experience and education and are doing same job, they should make the same. Only reason for one of them to make more is if he has more experience or extra responsibilities.

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dzimm

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#77 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Archangel3371 said:

Nothing wrong with people at that top making more then people at the bottom. The problem is that the wage disparity is so obscenely disproportionate. What ever happened to “trickle down economics”, “a high tide raises all boats”, etc., etc.? Oh yeah it’s just more bullshit that the have all’s tell to the have not’s so that they can keep hoarding all the money, more money then they could ever spend in a lifetime.

"Wage disparity" is what someone says when they're jealous of someone who makes more than them, but to be honest, anybody can live comfortably on a modest wage if you manage your money, exercise discipline, and live within your means (in other words, avoid debt like your life depends on it, because it does!). If I can take care of my family's needs on $40,000 a year, then I could care less if a CEO of an international business empire is making $40-million. The easiest way to have a miserable life is to look at other people and grumble about how you don't have what they have.

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Sancho_Panzer

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#78 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 1421 Posts

@Icarian said:
@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:
@sancho_panzer said:
@Icarian said:

In Finland all it takes is a phone call to find out how much your neigbour earned last year

That's lovely. Burglars can draw up a whole itinerary before even leaving the house.

Lucky for us then that we don't have burglars. Not every country is like wild wild west.

I'm just messing. Finland's a very fine country and much respected where I'm at. Never personally had the chance to visit but my family's in awe of the place and has spent a good amount of time out there. One of us even went as far as to import a Karelian Bear Dog as a historical tribute. Beautiful animal, and half Laika too.

Okay. That's great. We've our own issues, but transparency in salaries isn't one of them in my opinion. I believe in Finnish idea that if two people have similar experience and education and are doing same job, they should make the same. Only reason for one of them to make more is if he has more experience or extra responsibilities.

Okay. Fantastic. I suppose different nations have different values. I don't know that every culture would love the idea of publicly sharing income details, but if it works for Finns, that's superb.

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Archangel3371

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#79 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 32010 Posts

@dzimm: Not when there is such a huge and obvious pay discrepancy. Telling people to “get better jobs” or “manage your money better” is just horseshit.

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Maroxad

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#80 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

@dzimm said:
@Maroxad said:
@dzimm said:
@Maroxad said:

Under Bobby Kotick

  • Diablo 3 came out, and got completely trounced by its competitor Path of Exile. Losing the crown and dominance the franchise had in the genre. Let alone subgenre.

I just want to make a note here: the only people who think Path of Exile "trounced" Diablo 3 are Path of Exile fanboys. The fact is, Diablo 3 is one of Blizzard's biggest critical and financial successes. It has received consistently positive reviews, not just for its original PC release but on every subsequent release on multiple platforms, It was at the time of release Blizzard's most successful launch title and the fastest selling PC game in video game history selling nearly 4-million copies in the first 24-hours, and by 2015, it had already sold a whopping 30-million copies worldwide across all platforms. I would not be the least bit surprised if that number is over 40-million today (it was most recently released on the Nintendo Switch where it saw brisk sales). It also continues to be one of the top live-streamed games.

So, yeah, if that's getting "trounced", I wonder what success looks like?

Diablo 3 initially sold well because of its marketing and brand recongition due to Diablo 2. It was HEAVILY panned by the playerbase.

Top viewed games? Really, let's see here, at the type of typing this

Diablo 3 has 569 viewers,

Path of Exile has 6300 viewers.

Path of exile has over 10 times more viewers. Blizzard thanks to a lot of bad decisions, lost their crown to a group of fans, who despite being significantly less technically proficient, wasn't hammered down by decisions no one really wanted.

On a personal anecdote, I have been playing D3 lately after someone wanted to play it with me. On the switch, the online is pretty much dead. Even when I played on PC a few years ago, I barely saw any other players. It really felt like a single player game.

The only things the game got over PoE is the Paragon levelling system and the smooth the engine is.

Yeah, the "it only sold well because of hype" rationalization would explain initial sales but not the continued success nearly a decade after its initial release. And panned by players? So what when it sold an average of 10-million copies a year for its first three years and continues to sell well today? PC games are almost non-existent on store shelves these days, but you can still find brand new boxed copies of Diablo III selling for $20. That's extraordinary for an 8-year old game! Stores wouldn't stock it if it wasn't making a profit. And, of course, it continues to be available for every other major platform.

I don't know where you're getting your streaming view numbers from, so no comment.

As for online play, yeah, it's pretty dead on consoles because the console version is intended primarily for offline and couch co-op play, and most people who do play online only play with their friends. But on the PC side, there are no shortage of people to play with in public games, especially if you're a high level player. Newbies just starting out at level one might have a tough time finding a pick-up game, but folks running high level bounties and greater rifts have plenty of company.

The point, of course, is that Diablo 3 was hardly "trounced" by Path of Exile and is one of Blizzard's biggest successes. That's a fact.

Look at the metacritic user score, how incredibly negative people were towards the game at launch. Yes, it sold well, after they practically redeemed the game with its expansion. But how good was the game's retention rate, how many people will buy Diablo 4 when it comes out?

PC games non-existant on store shelves? News to me, whenever I go to an electronics store, I see shelves full of PC games.

I got them off Twitch.tv.

Currently the numbers are 7.3k for PoE and 814 for Diablo.

Keep telling yourself that. Diablo lost its relevance compared to Path of Exile. It was trounced. Maybe Diablo 4 will take it back, but if PoE2 fixes its awful engine, I doubt Kotick's short sighted business strategies will take it back.

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Sevenizz

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#81 Sevenizz  Online
Member since 2010 • 5706 Posts

A $40 million dollar salary is pretty ridiculous for any non-ownership position. I don’t care what it is. Cut that by just 5 million and all bottom tier employees can share a decent wage.

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Star67

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#82 Star67
Member since 2005 • 4781 Posts

@vfighter: great argument buddy, we'll get this solved with conversation like that for sure!

You have a PHD or something?

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#83  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts

@Maroxad said:

Look at the metacritic user score, how incredibly negative people were towards the game at launch. Yes, it sold well, after they practically redeemed the game with its expansion. But how good was the game's retention rate, how many people will buy Diablo 4 when it comes out?

PC games non-existant on store shelves? News to me, whenever I go to an electronics store, I see shelves full of PC games.

I got them off Twitch.tv.

Currently the numbers are 7.3k for PoE and 814 for Diablo.

Keep telling yourself that. Diablo lost its relevance compared to Path of Exile. It was trounced. Maybe Diablo 4 will take it back, but if PoE2 fixes its awful engine, I doubt Kotick's short sighted business strategies will take it back.

Who gives a shit about user scores when the game has sold in the tens of millions and continues to sell to this day?

And, yes, PC games are virtually non-existent on store shelves compared to years ago. They're usually relegated to a single, small shelf or endcap, and they only stock the biggest sellers, one of which continues to be Diablo 3.

Streaming goes in peaks and valleys depending on a number of factors, but the fact is, Diablo 3 continues to be a popular subject matter for streams and YouTube videos.

Seriously, man, it's just laughable to claim that one of the most popular and successful games in gaming history was "trounced". lol

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#84  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Archangel3371 said:

@dzimm: Not when there is such a huge and obvious pay discrepancy. Telling people to “get better jobs” or “manage your money better” is just horseshit.

Like Dave Ramsey says, "Never take financial advice from a broke person."

A person can live very comfortably on a modest salary with proper financial discipline. They may not have the nicest house in the nicest neighborhood with the nicest car in the driveway, but they'll have clothes on their back, a roof over their head, food on the table, and money in the bank. Managing your finances and living within your means (no debt!) is really not as hard as people think. Do an internet search for "baby steps to financial freedom".

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#85 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 42718 Posts

@dzimm said:
@Archangel3371 said:

@dzimm: Not when there is such a huge and obvious pay discrepancy. Telling people to “get better jobs” or “manage your money better” is just horseshit.

Like Dave Ramsey says, "Never take financial advice from a broke person."

A person can live very comfortably on a modest salary with proper financial discipline.

Someone doesn't know how little some people are paid.
Someone doesn't know how little some people are paid.

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Archangel3371

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#86 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 32010 Posts

@dzimm: I’m not saying that people shouldn’t be fiscally responsible. This thread is specifically talking about the wage discrepancies and blatant corporate greed happening at Activision/Blizzard and that is specifically what I have a problem with. Also just because you can manage on a modest salary doesn’t make the stuff that goes on at places like Activision/Blizzard right. Everyone should benefit from a company’s success appropriately but that obviously isn’t happening there and at other places.

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#87 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Archangel3371 said:

@dzimm: I’m not saying that people shouldn’t be fiscally responsible. This thread is specifically talking about the wage discrepancies and blatant corporate greed happening at Activision/Blizzard and that is specifically what I have a problem with. Also just because you can manage on a modest salary doesn’t make the stuff that goes on at places like Activision/Blizzard right. Everyone should benefit from a company’s success appropriately but that obviously isn’t happening there and at other places.

Yeah, like I said, "wage discrepancy" is what people say when they're jealous of what someone else earns.

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#88 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Pedro said:
@dzimm said:
@Archangel3371 said:

@dzimm: Not when there is such a huge and obvious pay discrepancy. Telling people to “get better jobs” or “manage your money better” is just horseshit.

Like Dave Ramsey says, "Never take financial advice from a broke person."

A person can live very comfortably on a modest salary with proper financial discipline.

Someone doesn't know how little some people are paid.
Someone doesn't know how little some people are paid.

I said a modest salary, not a pauper's salary.

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#89 WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 6505 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

Should a paperboy be paid as much as the shop owner?

This. End thread.


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#90  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16133 Posts

@dzimm said:
@Maroxad said:

Look at the metacritic user score, how incredibly negative people were towards the game at launch. Yes, it sold well, after they practically redeemed the game with its expansion. But how good was the game's retention rate, how many people will buy Diablo 4 when it comes out?

PC games non-existant on store shelves? News to me, whenever I go to an electronics store, I see shelves full of PC games.

I got them off Twitch.tv.

Currently the numbers are 7.3k for PoE and 814 for Diablo.

Keep telling yourself that. Diablo lost its relevance compared to Path of Exile. It was trounced. Maybe Diablo 4 will take it back, but if PoE2 fixes its awful engine, I doubt Kotick's short sighted business strategies will take it back.

Who gives a shit about user scores when the game has sold in the tens of millions and continues to sell to this day?

And, yes, PC games are virtually non-existent on store shelves compared to years ago. They're usually relegated to a single, small shelf or endcap, and they only stock the biggest sellers, one of which continues to be Diablo 3.

Streaming goes in peaks and valleys depending on a number of factors, but the fact is, Diablo 3 continues to be a popular subject matter for streams and YouTube videos.

Seriously, man, it's just laughable to claim that one of the most popular and successful games in gaming history was "trounced". lol

It is laughable that you assert that a game is not getting trounced, by throwing around various metrics, when using those metrics you proposed, the game is losing to PoE by a LARGE margin, losing by factor.

According to this site, https://playercounter.com/diablo-3/

Diablo 3 has 15k people currently playing. I dont know how reliable it is, but 15k is not too bad. Until you compare it to Path of Exile, which on Steam Alone, averages around 34k in the last 30 days. And to repeat, that is on Steam alone. I wouldnt be surprised if you could at the very least double that number if you counted people playing PoE outside Steam.

Face it, Activision Blizzard messed up... bad.

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Archangel3371

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#91 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 32010 Posts

I find it funny how some people will piss and moan about game prices, micro transactions, loot boxes, etc., yet somehow feel the need to defend or justify this kind of obscene corporate greed and inequity. 🤦‍♂️

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#92 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 42718 Posts

@dzimm said:

I said a modest salary, not a pauper's salary.

Once modest salary is mingling with the pauper salaries. 😥

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#93 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 13391 Posts

@plageus900 said:

I had a shitty job once. I left and got a better job.

Shutup or Diablo4 and Shadowlands will be delayed very long time due to no man power.

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#94 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 3991 Posts

Alright, people seem pretty set in their opinions about wage disparity, so I'm going to put that aside and say; Is there really no one who could do Bobby's job for say $10 million a year? There would be enough money left over to put out an extra AAA annual franchise, or like five ios games. Hell, they could find a Japanese CEO and only have to shell out $5 million.

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#95 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26132 Posts

While the difference between pay is total BS, the prime suspect that people are ignoring is the fact the cost of living in California (the state Blizzard HQ is located) is retarded to live in.

The Avg cost of a house in Cali is 552k

If you have a spouse or roommate (2 adults) with 0 kids you need to average 5,335 a month or 64k a year and that's in Irvine California.

The number one thing that costs so much is rent or mortgages, there's no reason why Apartments should cost as much as a house mortgage in ANY STATE.

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#96 dxmcat  Online
Member since 2007 • 3344 Posts

while I wouldnt mind a few extra bucks, I've lived in 4 of the 10 most expensive towns to live in (per lending tree), on sub 12 bucks an hour and lived quite comfortably, (and PC game, LOL).

:P

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#97  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts

@Maroxad said:

It is laughable that you assert that a game is not getting trounced, by throwing around various metrics, when using those metrics you proposed, the game is losing to PoE by a LARGE margin, losing by factor.

According to this site, https://playercounter.com/diablo-3/

Diablo 3 has 15k people currently playing. I dont know how reliable it is, but 15k is not too bad. Until you compare it to Path of Exile, which on Steam Alone, averages around 34k in the last 30 days. And to repeat, that is on Steam alone. I wouldnt be surprised if you could at the very least double that number if you counted people playing PoE outside Steam.

Face it, Activision Blizzard messed up... bad.

"I dont know how reliable it is" ... right, so it's worthless. And while Diablo 3 might have a certain number of people playing online at any given moment, how many more people are playing offline? Remember, the console version can be without connecting to servers.

Look, if you think creating one of the most popular and successful games ever with over 40-million sold at retail (and who knows how many more units sold digitally) and an active online presence nearly a decade later with a highly anticipated 4th game in the series currently in development is "messing up" then I guarantee that every developer in the industry wishes they could "mess up" just as badly.

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#98  Edited By dzimm
Member since 2006 • 5992 Posts
@Ballroompirate said:

While the difference between pay is total BS, the prime suspect that people are ignoring is the fact the cost of living in California (the state Blizzard HQ is located) is retarded to live in.

The Avg cost of a house in Cali is 552k

If you have a spouse or roommate (2 adults) with 0 kids you need to average 5,335 a month or 64k a year and that's in Irvine California.

The number one thing that costs so much is rent or mortgages, there's no reason why Apartments should cost as much as a house mortgage in ANY STATE.

I don't know who in their right mind would choose to live in California. It's one of the most messed up states in the US.

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#99 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 26389 Posts

@judaspete said:

Is there really no one who could do Bobby's job for say $10 million a year?

Of course there is. No man on earth needs to earn 40 million a year. In fact, it's completely fucked up that one guy can earn that kind of money. And only a fucking asshole can accept to earn that much money. To think you're worth an amount that could help or save thousands of other people's lifes.. Nah, who cares about others? I need my 3 mansions and 10 cars, damn it!

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#100 Sancho_Panzer  Online
Member since 2015 • 1421 Posts

@Ballroompirate said:

While the difference between pay is total BS, the prime suspect that people are ignoring is the fact the cost of living in California (the state Blizzard HQ is located) is retarded to live in.

The Avg cost of a house in Cali is 552k

If you have a spouse or roommate (2 adults) with 0 kids you need to average 5,335 a month or 64k a year and that's in Irvine California.

The number one thing that costs so much is rent or mortgages, there's no reason why Apartments should cost as much as a house mortgage in ANY STATE.

Fair point. Why does all software development have to be located in one place? And why particularly California? Moon Studios has done a fine job with its team located all over the world. I suppose it might be a different case with vast development teams, but could well be that is a big part of Blizzard's problem.

Here's a nice interview with Thomas Mahler on how Moon met the challenge of distributed working.