Bioshock Infinite A game with so much potential,yet fails to reach it (spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc15KgfNJsw

A Video that Sums up nicely the problems of Infinite.

Major Spoilers for anyone that HAS NOT FINISHED THE GAME. This is also a long Thread sooo basically I don't expect a whole host of people to read it :P

Anyone else agree with me or are most people still Honeymooning with the game ? Ok Ok before im beheaded for this blasphemy let me first explain myself. In no way do I think Bioshock Infinite is a bad game it is probably one of my most beloved games in awhile now. (It doesn't hold a candle in regards to the first Bioshock) However I do believe it COULD have been one of the greatest games ever created the game OOZES potential it gushes out like a severed limb, but ultimately fails to meet it due to them realizing after pouring Millions of dollars into this game *How the **** are we going to make our money back ?* by sacrificing elements of the game to reach out to a larger audience of course.

The Evolution Of Bioshock Infinite

Debut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDQ4FhslSk

Debut gameplay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU

E3 2011 demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU

VGA 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvIU1e7k7Oc

Launch trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wq5KHPYWWY

At the onset, the player is thrust -- on more than one level -- into an exciting and wonderful place, but there is already some sense of awkwardness before the combat inevitably takes hold. The citizens of Columbia make eye contact with you and track your movements, from carefully realized stationary positions, mostly without ever communicating with you. They're equal parts wax museum specimen and carnival ride prop. 

When the non-violent layer is stripped away after the initial hour, the rest of the game is spent with the city's forces running at you in endless waves. There are brief respites, but, again, despite sometimes being surrounded by civilians who stare and track you, your communication is mostly limited to back and forth quips with Elizabeth as you wander past.

My issue is Columbia while VERY Visually appealing feels empty, my favorite parts about Bioshock Infinite were simply just walking around Columbia during the downtime moments, however im almost always pulled out of the world by the god awful NPCs. NPCs just dissapear when Combat happens they don't hide in cover they don't go into the safety of their homes they just *Poof*.

Story:

I actually prefer Bioshock Infinites story compared to Bioshock one, so much thought was put to infinite its almost mind boggling how much stuff you shrug off at the start because you don't know what they mean until more of the pieces start to fit together.

The ending is probably one of my favorites in recent Video game memory, soo much better then Bioshock 1 and its horrible Final Boss. Really I don't have any complaints about the main story.

Powerful stuff.

Backstory:

Bioshock 1s Backstory was however sooo much better then Infinites. Im presented with this breathtakingly beautiful world yet Voxaphones are a joke compared to the Audio Daries of Rapture why is such a amazing place given almost no backstory along with its inhabitants ?

Listening to Audio Diaries presented you with little stories of certain civilians and all kinds of interesting back story on Rapture. One example in Bioshock 2 you can find a Audio Diary of a man coming to Rapture to try and find his daughter who was taken to be turned into a little sister, going off the beaten track you find Audio Diaries of this mans experience with Rapture and its inhabitants. Near the end of the game you go about your merry way killing Big Daddies but you stop and loot this *Named* Big Daddy carrying a Audio Diary. It was that very some farther, I don't know if anyone played Bioshock 2 but that part really struck me, rather then giving up his daughter he chooses to be with her forever turning himself into a Big Daddy to protect her. (Correct me if im wrong its been awhile) 

Looking back at Bioshock Infinite I don't remember coming across anything as interesting or as shocking as some of the Audio Diaries in Rapture.

Undeveloped Characters: 

Daisy Fitzroy:

Horribly under developed character with a farewell that was mind numbingly bad. Vox Populli were turned into nothing but mindless murders that attack you for no reason the first thing they say when they see you *Its Booker Dewit !* and start shooting you..really ? Wasn't Booker a Hero to them ?

SongBird:

Why the hell did probably the most interesting character (Besides Elizabeth) get almost no backstory at all ? Songbird was so underused it hurts. All we know is that Fink constructed him after *supposedly* looking into a tear and gained inspiration (We can assume or at least guess that it was Rapture) Apart from that..nothing at all ? WHY !

Boys Of Silence:

Used very briefly in one of the later levels and..that's it ? I don't remember a Voxaphone going into detail about the Boys Of Silence yet they are visually one of the interesting Characters/NPCs in the game.

Gameplay: It feels worse then Bioshock 1. I know I know im going to get alot of shit for this one. Bioshock Infinite's Gameplay/Controls are more fluid there is no denying this, playing the game is a overall better *Shooting* experience then Bioshock1. However it feels stripped down and taken apart compared to Bioshiock it feels more like a spectical shooter then what Bhoshock was. (I would argue that they didn't need to strip the game down its a sequel if the gameplay DOESN'T feel better in a sequel then clearly they did something wrong)

I have less Guns available at any given time restricting me to 2 at any given time. Vigors and especially their upgrades felt extremely weak compared to Bioshock 1 both visually (Bioshock Plasmids and Guns changed Appearance with each level and upgrade), Vigors themselves felt out of place in Columbia, there wasn't one time where they tried to explain vigors to my knowledge. 

Choice in how I want to play the game is limited severly, I loved going full Plasmids in Bioshock 1 with little Gunplay here and there. with Infinite im almost brought back into a Cover Based shooter I can certainly try to use nothing but Vigors but I won't be very effective unless I bum around and wait for Elizabeth to throw Salts out of nowehere. 

Gameplay doesn't feel rewarding, near the end I tried to skip most battles just purely because how boring it became rinse and repeat killing waves and waves of the same enemy, at least in Bioshock you could mix and match for different playstyles which made reply so much fun.

Soundtrack: It's a tie for me LOVED Bioshock's soundtrack the creepy atomospehere along with the old 1930s _1940s music is haunting beautiful going along the corridors of Bioshock and hearing *How Much Is That Doggy In The Window* and others.

But Bioshock Infinite's soundtrack is probably the strongest part of the game this is one such example.

Beach Boys: God Only Knows:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4coaEB4tabU

No complaints from me they nailed the Soundtrack hands down in my opinion amazing stuff.

Some Information regarding the game is early development.

• In earlier renditions of BioShock Infinite, Columbia's citizens could become mutated in several ways. "Vigor" abusers became repugnant versions of whatever the ability was. So Shock Jockey mutants would have those crystallized structures seen in the final game all over them, Devil's Kiss mutants would have charred skin, and so on.

• Instead of "nosebleeds," characters would instead end up physically merging with other incarnations and appear as if their young and old bodies were ghastly "morphed" together (if the process went awry).

• Songbird went through many variations, some of which are comparable to something you'd see out of Shadow of the Colossus to literally Big Daddies with wings (sans the drill). The book equivocates Songbird to the Big Daddies and states Irrational worked backward from that impetus in creating the character (knowing that it needed to fly to suit the city in the sky concept).

• Details can be found in released concept art that suggests Songbird has an organic core with mechanical parts (That tube you see running from his face? It's an air hose for breathing). An inordinate amount of thought went into how his wings function and his entire body moves in relation to this mechanism.

• Columbia definitely carried an Art Nouveau style in original designs. One can liken it to Rapture in the sky, albeit with subtle touches. The palette and curvaceous nature of these designs were pared down and modified, but there is still quite a bit that made it into the final game in some shape or form.

• Elizabeth went through countless designs and profiles. It's staggering to see how much thought was put into this character. Earlier designs definitely harked toward Disney Princesses and distinct outfits from the time the game is set in. There are also a couple concepts that show Elizabeth utilizing telekinetic abilities.

• Vigors originally were in canisters that had needles pop out to be inserted into the players forearm accompanied with some sort of mutation. The idea was that switching Vigors would show the new canister on the player's affected arm, thus always allowing you to see which power was in play by the canister's design. This was jettisoned in favor of animating Booker's arm "mutated" in a unique manner with each power.

• Each Vigor bottle went through at least a dozen designs. Many are shown for each ability. For instance, the Shock Jockey originally had a stylized rendition of Zeus brandishing a lightning bolt in each palm.

• There are at least a handful of distinct heavy hitter and mid-tier enemies featured in the book that were cut from the game. One being a toymaker with denizens mutated into larger versions of children's toys (one being a stuffed rabbit and the other an owl doll). Another enemy was a stage magician set in the aesthetic of Columbia (not unlike Sander Cohen).

• An "Enhancer" enemy can be seen in the book. He appears like a cross between a vagrant and a wizard (strange, I know). It looks like it got as far as being modeled. He would provide potions and Vigors to fellow foes.

• It seems that they toyed with the notion of using Automatons as enemies.

• In original concepts, Fink's enterprise was going to be powered by half-human, half-machine slaves. The player would presumably encounter these atrocities as they delved further into Fink's Manufacturing lair.

• The Sky-Hook was originally meant to be strictly a means to transport the player. It wasn't until later that they found it could serve also serve a grisly, darker purpose.

Bioshock Infinite was something I was unbelievably hyped for, Bioshock is one of my Top 10 games and Perhaps I had too much hype that I had unrealistic expectations of Infinite ? However I do believe well im not saying ZOMG conspiracy theory ! Bioshock Infinite just feels so much different compared to what System Shock 2 was to Bioshock. It feels like a Stripped Down game to appeal to a larger audience.

Feel free to rip me a new one now :P

where is the tl;dr version?campzor

Very Short Version: Game was Stripped compared to its Prequels to Appeal to Larger Audience for more of Ze MONIES ? I guess that Is a very average outlook on it.

Your whole point about daisy and the Vox Populi tells me either you didn't pay attention or you didn't understand what happened there.

I agree with you actually.

Songbird and Daisy were underdeveloped because their backstories' were cut of the game for DLC. Chen Lin's too.

[QUOTE="campzor"]where is the tl;dr version?Blake135

Very Short Version: Game was Stripped compared to its Prequels to Appeal to Larger Audience for more of Ze MONIES ? I guess that Is a very average outlook on it.

There are no prequels to infinite, and how does this game appeal to a larger audience? A statement like that makes no sense in this situation.

Your whole point about daisy tells me either you didn't pay attention or you didn't understand what happened there.

GD1551

Sorry I should expand on my views about Daisy the Thread was already long enough and was doing my head in but ill be glad to expand on my points later.(its like 1am here in Australia Im pretty tired :P)

completely wrong, it sets a new height.sts106mat

Expand please ? Compared to Bioshock or compared to the FPS Genre ? I would agree with the second part it really does set a New Height for FPS's

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

Your whole point about daisy tells me either you didn't pay attention or you didn't understand what happened there.

Blake135

Sorry I should expand on my views about Daisy the Thread was already long enough and was doing my head in but ill be glad to expand on my points later.(its like 1am here in Australia Im pretty tired :P)

I meant the part where you asked why they were shooting at you despite you being a hero for them. 

To me Bioshock Infinite was the greatest gaming experience I have ever had, so it's hard to say that I'm disapointed :P. That said it's clear the development was problematic and that a lot of material had to be cut. So if you compare Infinite to the best possible version of all these parts shown, it doesn't quite reach that. On the other hand it surpasses what has been done before in the medium, which is more than good enough for me :).

As for the world, I agree it feels a bit like a museum, vax-cabinet. To me this is fine though. The way I see it this is a linear, story heavy, action-shooter. The world design accomplishes what it should for this genre, namely being aesthetically pleasing and tell a lot of story. No game has ever created a world were you feel like just another citizen and all NPCs responds corerectly to your actions. This is not possible and is asking way too much. Since BS:I is not an open-world game the NPCs are designed to be walked by once, which is the right way to do it imo.

The gameplay was the biggest suprise to me. B:I is a fantastic action-shooter imo, the most fun I have ever played. I had a blast flying/running around the enviroment, using tears and vigors as smartly as I could. You are likely correct that if you want to play a very specific style BS:I doesn't really work as well as earlier BS games. However I'm not interested in that personally. I love to mix it up on the fly and to me it's a strength that you are not locked in one specific style.

Summary: I respect your opinion and can understand why a fan of Bioshock games would feel that way. For me though the balance of the game was spot on. I'm much more of an action/adventure fan than an RPG fan. I love exhilarating, fast paced moment to moment action where you can choose between a number of gadgets/techniques on the fly. BS:I was the Vanquish of FPS, but added a brilliant story and fascinating aesthetics on top :D!

To me Bioshock Infinite was the greatest gaming experience I have ever had, so it's hard to say that I'm disapointed :P. That said it's clear the development was problematic and that a lot of material had to be cut. So if you compare Infinite to the best possible version of all these parts shown, it doesn't quite reach that. On the other hand it surpasses what has been done before in the medium, which is more than good enough for me :).

As for the world, I agree it feels a bit like a museum, vax-cabinet. To me this is fine though. The way I see it this is a linear, story heavy, action-shooter. The world design accomplishes what it should for this genre, namely being aesthetically pleasing and tell a lot of story. No game has ever created a world were you feel like just another citizen and all NPCs responds corerectly to your actions. This is not possible and is asking way too much. Since BS:I is not an open-world game the NPCs are designed to be walked by once, which is the right way to do it imo.

The gameplay was the biggest suprise to me. B:I is a fantastic action-shooter imo, the most fun I have ever played. I had a blast flying/running around the enviroment, using tears and vigors as smartly as I could. You are likely correct that if you want to play a very specific style BS:I doesn't really work as well as earlier BS games. However I'm not interested in that personally. I love to mix it up on the fly and to me it's a strength that you are not locked in one specific style.

Summary: I respect your opinion and can understand why a fan of Bioshock games would feel that way. For me though the balance of the game was spot on. I'm much more of an action/adventure fan than an RPG fan. I love exhilarating, fast paced moment to moment action where you can choose between a number of gadgets/techniques on the fly. BS:I was the Vanquish of FPS, but added a brilliant story and fascinating aesthetics on top :D!

Sushiglutton

Thanks for the response :D late here in Australia so hopefully the topic keeps going (I Doubt it :P ) and will respond in detail tomorrow and other responses.

[QUOTE="Blake135"]

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]completely wrong, it sets a new height.sts106mat

Expand please ? Compared to Bioshock or compared to the FPS Genre ? I would agree with the second part it really does set a New Height for FPS's

fair enough, i do think it sets a new height for the genre, and for bioshock in fact.

reasons why?  well for a start its an FPS and the gunplay IS better.    the skyline mechanic is great  and is definitely not under-used, the big fight at soldiers field for example.  i did from the ground on my first run and almost entirely from the rails on my second playthrough.

limiting the weapons is a questionable choice, but prevents you from feeling OP, which i did in the original game at all times. i like this choice to be honest.

It sets a new height for bioshock games because as brilliant as Rapture was and the twist in the story fantastic, it does not leave you guessing and questioning and thinking things through half as much as this time around.

i remember when i finished bioshock 1, i wanted to see more of rapture, same feeling here, only this time you are blaming the developers for not giving you even more of the good stuff, because you want more.

Without bioshock, this game might not have been as good as it is, but it is a better game in pretty much every way i can think of.

Thats what im alittle dissapointed about the gunplay and generally the game is much more fluid then Bioshock was and because of this it is a more enjoyable *Shooting* experience. But couldn't they have down this without taking out alot of the RPG elements that made Bioshock 1 so good ? The overall gameplay of Infinite feels lacking to me compared to Bioshock.1

I think there are a couple good of reasons for the two weapon limit. First it makes the game a little bit more manageable to control on the fly. For a casual like me it was a bit too much to control both ~8 plasmisd and ~8 weapons. I couldn't handle that in a satisfying way. Secondly (and more importantly) BS:I is clearly designed to keep you moving and to incorporate Elizabeth as much in the action as possible. With a two weapon limit you will run out of ammo more frequently, which is a good thing. Either Elizabeth will help you (strenghtening the emotional bound), or you will be forced to find ammo somewhere (using tears or skylines for example). This created a lot of very exciting action moments during my playthrough :).

I just uploaded this today, feel free to agree or disagree.

Some other complaints. I never collected enough money to upgrade more than one or two vigors and weapons. Most vigors felt useless. Most encounters were too hectic and intense in order to create a proper strategy. In the first Bioshock encounters could be anticipated so you could set traps in the room and prepare. In this game waves of enemies rush at you and you are just forced into hectic gunplay.

I felt angry joe highlight the games weaknesses well.  Most of them lie in the gameplay elements. Something most of the critics are ignoring. 

[QUOTE="Blake135"]

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

fair enough, i do think it sets a new height for the genre, and for bioshock in fact.

reasons why?  well for a start its an FPS and the gunplay IS better.    the skyline mechanic is great  and is definitely not under-used, the big fight at soldiers field for example.  i did from the ground on my first run and almost entirely from the rails on my second playthrough.

limiting the weapons is a questionable choice, but prevents you from feeling OP, which i did in the original game at all times. i like this choice to be honest.

It sets a new height for bioshock games because as brilliant as Rapture was and the twist in the story fantastic, it does not leave you guessing and questioning and thinking things through half as much as this time around.

i remember when i finished bioshock 1, i wanted to see more of rapture, same feeling here, only this time you are blaming the developers for not giving you even more of the good stuff, because you want more.

Without bioshock, this game might not have been as good as it is, but it is a better game in pretty much every way i can think of.

sts106mat

Thats what im alittle dissapointed about the gunplay and generally the game is much more fluid then Bioshock was and because of this it is a more enjoyable *Shooting* experience. But couldn't they have down this without taking out alot of the RPG elements that made Bioshock 1 so good ? The overall gameplay of Infinite feels lacking to me compared to Bioshock.1

Didn't read since I don't respect cynical gamers (gamer 30 years here). Its fine to hate stuff and explain why in great detail for my record. Personally there were hundreds of games I hated over the years but but but I never cared. I dislike overly cynical people in general (I don't know why). Maybe its the internet's fault. Anyhow, Bioshock: I wasn't perfect but damn if it had many glaring weak spots that made the game not great. To be a great game THIS LATE into the gen means a lot to me...it carries more than if this game released in 2007, follow me?

Jeez is it everyones goal to suck the fun out of gaming or does it really suck that bad now. Every time a big game comes out and every is excited for it, it only takes about a week before everyone hates it and everyone says how much it sucks and how overrated it was. I honestly cant remember the last game that didn't happen with.

Pretty much agree with you on most accounts. Still had a great time with the game, but it's an 8 kind of game, not a gen-definer or even something that will go down as a classic once the honeymoon period is over, in my opinion.

Jeez is it everyones goal to suck the fun out of gaming or does it really suck that bad now. Every time a big game comes out and every is excited for it, it only takes about a week before everyone hates it and everyone says how much it sucks and how overrated it was. I honestly cant remember the last game that didn't happen with.

VendettaRed07

The main problem I have with it is that the game creates a really interesting setting that contains some very interesting themes, but then creates a story that hangs its hat on multiverse theories and quantum physics. I'd much rather have a story that deals with religion and racism rather than one that simply references them. The world and the underlying themes have very little to do with the central narrative which makes it seem like the developers chickened out a bit. 

Still a great game with an interesting story and some solid gameplay, it just fails to marry the central narrative to the thematic backdrops. 

Early on I was hoping the story would play out like There Will Be Blood or Carnivale, but it just doesn't work out that way. 

Jeez is it everyones goal to suck the fun out of gaming or does it really suck that bad now. Every time a big game comes out and every is excited for it, it only takes about a week before everyone hates it and everyone says how much it sucks and how overrated it was. I honestly cant remember the last game that didn't happen with.

VendettaRed07

I'm still playing through it. I'm having a ton of fun but I definitely feel like it's been stripped down. I would say it feels like the RPG elements are gone and gameplay in general was simplified to put even more focus on narrative. That doesn't make the game bad, but it's missing something vital.

There are some issues with it, it is very static indeed. In Shantytown you can shoot people in the head in front of kids and they will just stand there. The random NPC character does feel like a wax doll of some sort.

I have several complaints about gameplay but I feel that the story, when you start to go on to different dimensions, becomes inelegant (didn't finish it yet). Far as I can tell, this approach to rewriting the present is done in a much better fashion in Cryostasis - a cheap and barely functional game.

Infinite's only selling point is the story and its lovely look, setting and lore.

Average gameplay

Retarded AI

No balance between the difficulty settings

And it's fairly obvious a lot of things were either left unfinished or underused.I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed as f*** that we didn't get to fight Songbird.

Regardless, 10/10 story, would play again.

Also "set new height"

muh sides

v13_KiiLtz

[QUOTE="v13_KiiLtz"]

Infinite's only selling point is the story and its lovely look, setting and lore.

Average gameplay

Retarded AI

No balance between the difficulty settings

And it's fairly obvious a lot of things were either left unfinished or underused.I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed as f*** that we didn't get to fight Songbird.

Regardless, 10/10 story, would play again.

Also "set new height"

muh sides

kuraimen

[QUOTE="v13_KiiLtz"]

Infinite's only selling point is the story and its lovely look, setting and lore.

Average gameplay

Retarded AI

No balance between the difficulty settings

And it's fairly obvious a lot of things were either left unfinished or underused.I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed as f*** that we didn't get to fight Songbird.

Regardless, 10/10 story, would play again.

Also "set new height"

muh sides

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="v13_KiiLtz"]

Infinite's only selling point is the story and its lovely look, setting and lore.

Average gameplay

Retarded AI

No balance between the difficulty settings

And it's fairly obvious a lot of things were either left unfinished or underused.I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed as f*** that we didn't get to fight Songbird.

Regardless, 10/10 story, would play again.

Also "set new height"

muh sides

v13_KiiLtz

[QUOTE="VendettaRed07"]

Jeez is it everyones goal to suck the fun out of gaming or does it really suck that bad now. Every time a big game comes out and every is excited for it, it only takes about a week before everyone hates it and everyone says how much it sucks and how overrated it was. I honestly cant remember the last game that didn't happen with.

Agent-Tojed

Im not saying anyones wrong I haven't played it. But seriously every big release in the past several years, every highly reviewed thing, sucks after a week according to everyone. It just seems like nobody likes anything anymore. I don't know why that is.

[QUOTE="campzor"]where is the tl;dr version?Blake135

Very Short Version: Game was Stripped compared to its Prequels to Appeal to Larger Audience for more of Ze MONIES ? I guess that Is a very average outlook on it.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="v13_KiiLtz"]

Infinite's only selling point is the story and its lovely look, setting and lore.

Average gameplay

Retarded AI

No balance between the difficulty settings

And it's fairly obvious a lot of things were either left unfinished or underused.I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who was disappointed as f*** that we didn't get to fight Songbird.

Regardless, 10/10 story, would play again.

Also "set new height"

muh sides

v13_KiiLtz