Anyone else dislike the new DOOM games?

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ConanTheStoner

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#51 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

You can use the dash in the air, which is an air dash. A dash in the air.

Ha, didn't even catch that.

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nepu7supastar7

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#53 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5617 Posts

@ConanTheStoner:

"These other action games are big on getting replenishments from enemies mid battle."

Metroid does it too, that doesn't make it like DMC. But ironically, it's also an fps (if we're talking about Prime.) But I mean specifically: health pickups on the floor, armor shards, ammo clips and power ups. You didn't give an example of a hack & slash that does that. The only game that comes to my mind is Twisted Metal, which happens to be another arena combat game.

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ConanTheStoner

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#54  Edited By ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@nepu7supastar7:

And you think I'm reaching haha.

Anyways, Bayonetta.

NG also has its health/currency/ninpo orbs.

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jg4xchamp

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#55 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@ConanTheStoner:

"These other action games are big on getting replenishments from enemies mid battle."

Metroid does it too, that doesn't make it like DMC. But ironically, it's also an fps (if we're talking about Prime.) But I mean specifically: health pickups on the floor, armor shards, ammo clips and power ups. You didn't give an example of a hack & slash that does that. The only game that comes to my mind is Twisted Metal, which happens to be another arena combat game.

The error you are making is that he said Doom is a 1:1 to DMC, when that's not what he said. Stop moving goal posts and stop acting dense. What he is saying is that the games have taken a lot of cues from action game set ups. For instance in Old Doom you didn't locked into rooms as much, most of your maze running was going in n out of rooms organically and seeing how the levels looped in on themselves. If you wanted to run into a room, grab the key, and run, you can. Which is a thing people do on Nightmare in Doom 1.

In the newer games its more like how japanese beat-em ups do business. You get locked down and you gotta deal with all the enemies before you press forward. Most of the game design is doing that.

Like DMC and Bayonetta there are challenge rooms in the missions to unlock stuff, get upgrades, etc. That isn't really a FPS concept but very much something that showed up in DMC1's secret missions.

Like the action jacksons being name dropped, those games have movement n attack properties that can be used in conjunction with each other for a more finesse player. Doom isn't exactly bulletstorm, but quick switch combos are very much a part of the game. It's how you melt the maurader with SSG>Ballista>rocket.

Glory kill to get more health, ammo back to reward aggressive play and not conservative play is an action game concept. Be it God of War, Metal Gear Rising, or Bloodborne in recent years.

Ergo this sentence



Doom shares almost nothing with hack and slash games like DMC and Bayonetta.

Is false under any scrutiny. Beyond that DMC is not about puzzle solving or platforming, ditto Bayonetta. Those are at best pace fillers, and often the worst part about those games. Whether intentional or not Doom 4 n 5 absolutely shares some of the DNA of japanese action games.

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ConanTheStoner

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#56 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

Glory kill to get more health, ammo back to reward aggressive play and not conservative play is an action game concept. Be it God of War, Metal Gear Rising, or Bloodborne in recent years.

Yup, even Ninja Gaiden with its on-landing instant ultimate technique. Not exactly the same, but feels very much in line with glory kills.

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jg4xchamp

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#57 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:
@jg4xchamp said:

Glory kill to get more health, ammo back to reward aggressive play and not conservative play is an action game concept. Be it God of War, Metal Gear Rising, or Bloodborne in recent years.

Yup, even Ninja Gaiden with its on-landing instant ultimate technique. Not exactly the same, but feels very much in line with glory kills.

UTs absorbing orbs to give you a powerful one time all bet attack to just destroy a foe. Having the player choose between health or kill. Very much in line yeah.

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dxmcat

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#58 dxmcat
Member since 2007 • 3071 Posts

Glori(kill)fied QTE.

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nintendoboy16

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#59 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 37163 Posts

>Doom

>Story...

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PernicioEnigma

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#60 PernicioEnigma
Member since 2010 • 6240 Posts

It's not really my type of game either, but I can see it's very well made and I'm happy for Id's recent success.

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npiet1

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#61 npiet1
Member since 2018 • 3066 Posts

While I haven't played eternal yet, Doom 2016 became felt very repetitive by the end and I struggled to finish it. Eternal is next for me though after I finish BOTW again.

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nepu7supastar7

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#62 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5617 Posts

@jg4xchamp:

"DMC is not about puzzle solving or platforming, ditto Bayonetta. Those are at best pace fillers,"

- But you can't deny their existence in the games. Especially for puzzles. That's an awful lotta pace filler!! lol You did get me with the Secret Combat Rooms that take you to challenges part. That's definitely a DMC-style feature. But the heart of Doom is in arena combat and that's what it's designed to be. Like Twisted Metal or Halo.

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Vaidream45

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#63  Edited By Vaidream45
Member since 2016 • 2110 Posts

Lol this thread. Someone obviously never played Doom 1 and 2.

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nepu7supastar7

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#64 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5617 Posts

@jg4xchamp:

"Mother fuckers really be out here not knowing shit about shit. Has to be a jrpg weeb."

- Watch it! You can have your disagreements about whatever but there's no reason to get nasty and disrespectful. Be civil, please!

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uninspiredcup

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#65 uninspiredcup  Online
Member since 2013 • 38472 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

Watch it! You can have your disagreements about whatever but there's no reason to get nasty and disrespectful. Be civil, please!

The exclamation points heighten the drama.

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nepu7supastar7

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#66 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5617 Posts

@vaidream45:

"Someone obviously never played Doom 1 and 2."

- I did. And those are what I'm comparing Doom Eternal to.

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PAL360

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#67 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 29794 Posts

I have yet to play Eternal, but loved all DOOM games before it, from DOOM93 to DOOM16.

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PAL360

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#68 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 29794 Posts

I have yet to play Eternal, but loved all DOOM games before it, from DOOM93 to DOOM16.

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Ghosts4ever

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#69 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

@vaidream45 said:

Lol this thread. Someone obviously never played Doom 1 and 2.

and you can play them as complete game in Doom Eternal. thats what im doing.

Playing Doom Eternal and also playing Doom 2 as mini game too.

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Vaidream45

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#70 Vaidream45
Member since 2016 • 2110 Posts

@ghosts4ever: woah! How do you do that??

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Ghosts4ever

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#71 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

@vaidream45 said:

@ghosts4ever: woah! How do you do that??

go to Doomguy computer and type password

flynntaggart

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KillzoneSnake

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#72  Edited By KillzoneSnake
Member since 2012 • 2757 Posts

Yes i dont like them. The old DOOMs looked like crap back in the day to me just like today and the new ones are not for me, they too much like arena shooters not thx. I only like DOOM 3, its closer to a survival horror game than the others.

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#73 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@jg4xchamp:

"Mother fuckers really be out here not knowing shit about shit. Has to be a jrpg weeb."

- Watch it! You can have your disagreements about whatever but there's no reason to get nasty and disrespectful. Be civil, please!

True.

@jg4xchamp:

Champ please, watch your tone.

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Vaidream45

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#74 Vaidream45
Member since 2016 • 2110 Posts

@ghosts4ever: thank you!

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MirkoS77

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#75  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14975 Posts

Haven't played Eternal yet, so my opinion's based just on '16.

Which I found a good game on its own, but a fairly sub-par Doom. I didn't care for the "Demons detected, lock-down, clear x enemies and you can proceed", repeat ad nauseam formula. It made the game feel segmented, artificial, nigh a chore, and not like a full on world going through an infestation as the originals so well conveyed. Also IIRC, monster infighting (one of the best aspects of the originals) was sorely lacking (or at least lessened) as far as I saw it.

I wanted tons of monsters, dozens at a time on the screen, ****king chaos, as in the originals. A huge fray going on in one level where demons were going apeshit, tearing each other apart as well as me. That's Doom to me. Don't know if Eternal addresses these two things, but if not, eh.....I'll get it on a sale.

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Maroxad

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#76 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 15514 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

Haven't played Eternal yet, so my opinion's based just on '16.

Which I found a good game on its own, but a fairly sub-par Doom. I didn't care for the "Demons detected, lock-down, clear x enemies and you can proceed", repeat ad nauseam formula. It made the game feel segmented, artificial, nigh a chore, and not like a full on world going through an infestation as the originals so well conveyed. Also IIRC, monster infighting (one of the best aspects of the originals) was sorely lacking (or at least lessened) as far as I saw it.

I wanted tons of monsters, dozens at a time on the screen, ****king chaos, as in the originals. A huge fray going on in one level where demons were going apeshit, tearing each other apart as well as me. That's Doom to me. Don't know if Eternal addresses these two things, but if not, eh.....I'll get it on a sale.

Doom Eternal has so much more monster infighting, thankfully.

"Demons detected, lock-down, clear x enemies and you can proceed"

Sadly this is still the same. A few monsters outside the combat areas that you can skip, but these are a minority.

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#77  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14975 Posts

@Maroxad said:

"Demons detected, lock-down, clear x enemies and you can proceed"

Sadly this is still the same. A few monsters outside the combat areas that you can skip, but these are a minority.

Stupid.

I don't know what prompted this change, but it's gamey as hell and turns the game from a free for all brawl in an entire level into arenas. Why can't they simply populate the entire map and let things play out? To restrict combat sections to particular portions of the map is to do the entire map a disservice. It isn't Doom.

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iambatman7986

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#78 iambatman7986
Member since 2013 • 2917 Posts

I personally thought Doom 2016 was an overly repetitive game. It made me not care about Eternal. Being locked in an Arena with hordes of enemies over and over just was not fun for me. I can't comment on Eternal as I have not played it, but I also have no desire to try it either. I may pick it up for -$10 like I did 2016.

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jg4xchamp

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#79 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

It isn't Doom.

At this point it is very much a completely different direction from Doom. I don't particularly care for Doom 4 as I similarly want Doom 1 n 2 like gameplay concepts, but the direction is very much making good on the stuff Painkiller and Serious Sam try to do. Borrowing a lot whether intentional or not from Japanese Action Games like DMC n Bayonetta.

The trade off now is that they finally have enemies to attack you at certain spaces and have a real ammo economy people are actually forced to use tactics besides circle strafe around the whole arena till everyone dies to the supershotgun. Making it one of the sickest action games in a long time.

The maze being a slog to putz around in the first playthrough is still there, but as far as "gamey"....Doom is hella gamey in any era. And the combat in Doom 5 is richer for it than the parade of "immersive" shit that couldn't hold the games jock in the depth department.

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@jg4xchamp:

"Mother fuckers really be out here not knowing shit about shit. Has to be a jrpg weeb."

- Watch it! You can have your disagreements about whatever but there's no reason to get nasty and disrespectful. Be civil, please!

Stop arguing in poor faith and it won't be an issue. You are choosing to be needlessly obtuse about shit.

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jg4xchamp

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#80  Edited By jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@jg4xchamp:

"DMC is not about puzzle solving or platforming, ditto Bayonetta. Those are at best pace fillers,"

- But you can't deny their existence in the games. Especially for puzzles. That's an awful lotta pace filler!! lol You did get me with the Secret Combat Rooms that take you to challenges part. That's definitely a DMC-style feature. But the heart of Doom is in arena combat and that's what it's designed to be. Like Twisted Metal or Halo.

This for instance, yes I can. There are barely any puzzles in either game. In 8 hour runs, maybe 20 minutes to 30 minutes of the gameplay is dedicated to some puzzle shit.

Bayonetta n DMC are very much arena combat, level design in those games is even less complicated, and just a series of hall ways connected battle spaces. The difference is those arenas often don't need an environmental prop because it gets in the way of the strengths of DMC n Bayonetta. A FPS isn't as complex in terms of interactions, so you need to extract depth from enemy positioning n the space itself. Ergo it's not always flat surfaces or else it would suck (see Shadow Warrior 2013 or lots of Serious Sam)

You keep trying to look at this as a 1:1, when that's not what is being argued.

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with_teeth26

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#81 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 9871 Posts

@npiet1 said:

While I haven't played eternal yet, Doom 2016 became felt very repetitive by the end and I struggled to finish it. Eternal is next for me though after I finish BOTW again.

I felt this way as well about 2016. so far Eternal has managed to keep things fresh and i'm getting towards the end

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MirkoS77

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#82 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14975 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

The trade off now is that they finally have enemies to attack you at certain spaces and have a real ammo economy people are actually forced to use tactics besides circle strafe around the whole arena till everyone dies to the supershotgun. Making it one of the sickest action games in a long time.

Yeah, I suppose Doom's always been gamey.

It's just.....I don't give a toss about ammo economy in it? Doom really wasn't about tactics or strategic considerations to me, it was always about a free for all brawl of chaos. Running through the map, kiting enemies into one another, sowing anarchy. Ammo was a means to an end to that, and it's been a while since I played the OGs, but I don't ever recall it being a consideration as long as you were piling on the corpses, much less tactics. Buckshot to the face was good tactics.

I don't deny the new titles as good action game, great even. Maybe in today's industry the original Doom formula would be viewed a tad rudimentary, but again....I still wish it held a bit closer to it source.

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#83 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@jg4xchamp said:

The trade off now is that they finally have enemies to attack you at certain spaces and have a real ammo economy people are actually forced to use tactics besides circle strafe around the whole arena till everyone dies to the supershotgun. Making it one of the sickest action games in a long time.

Yeah, I suppose Doom's always been gamey.

It's just.....I don't give a toss about ammo economy in it? Doom really wasn't about tactics or strategic considerations to me, it was always about a free for all brawl of chaos. Running through the map, kiting enemies into one another, sowing anarchy. Ammo was a means to an end to that, and it's been a while since I played the OGs, but I don't ever recall it being a consideration as long as you were piling on the corpses, much less tactics. Buckshot to the face was good tactics.

I don't deny the new titles as good action game, great even. Maybe in today's industry the original Doom formula would be viewed a tad rudimentary, but again....I still wish it held a bit closer to it source.

They are still Doom.

Loading Video...

you cant make carbon copy of original games.

Eternal is most varied and longest Doom game.

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#84  Edited By GuinnyB
Member since 2020 • 1 Posts

I don't dislike it, per se. I laughed at the story. It's so try-hard and funny that it succeeds in entertaining. Pretty amazing.

As a game,...meh. Doom 1 was peak Doom. I thought playing it on my brother's computer in 1993 may have given me nostalgia goggles, but no, I was playing again for the first time in forever the other day, and had more fun than with Eternal.

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#85 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@jg4xchamp said:

The trade off now is that they finally have enemies to attack you at certain spaces and have a real ammo economy people are actually forced to use tactics besides circle strafe around the whole arena till everyone dies to the supershotgun. Making it one of the sickest action games in a long time.

Yeah, I suppose Doom's always been gamey.

It's just.....I don't give a toss about ammo economy in it? Doom really wasn't about tactics or strategic considerations to me, it was always about a free for all brawl of chaos. Running through the map, kiting enemies into one another, sowing anarchy. Ammo was a means to an end to that, and it's been a while since I played the OGs, but I don't ever recall it being a consideration as long as you were piling on the corpses, much less tactics. Buckshot to the face was good tactics.

I don't deny the new titles as good action game, great even. Maybe in today's industry the original Doom formula would be viewed a tad rudimentary, but again....I still wish it held a bit closer to it source.

Its pretty fundamental to why Doom is such a great game to be honest, especially if you play on Ultra Violence n above. The myth is that Doom was a mindless game, in actuality far from it. Especially when you start throwing in its mod scene and all the great WADs the game got. Old doom is very much weaving yourself in n out of projectiles, and working your way around n through enemies to get ammo (secrets had extras for a reason), and grabbing health n armor, and shit like berserk n such. 100% kill runs are also a ting in that game.

Now Brutal Doom is very much mindless, it's also a very shitty mod.

Making a classic doom type game in todays market would require a level design mastery n use of enemies that really isn't flexed in most games if any modern action games. Especially given that people would want something with a bit more movement n free aim than OG doom, would have to create enemies that work in more abstract spaces.

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ConanTheStoner

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#86 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:

I still wish it held a bit closer to it source.

I hear that, definitely felt that a lot with Doom 4. It only occasionally flirted with what the originals were doing, and was very superficial about it.

Guess I just appreciate that Eternal doesn't front about it, it's 100% focused on being a sick action game and it nails it.

I get where you're coming from, would definitely appreciate a game that's faithful to classic Doom. At the same time, I can't complain about what we got with Eternal.

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#87 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

The most offensive part about Doom: Eternal is that for once, a ghost game is legitimately godlike lol

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#88  Edited By ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

The most offensive part about Doom: Eternal is that for once, a ghost game is legitimately godlike lol

Total fluke and lets be honest here, you know he's not scratching the higher level experience that really makes the game.

Bet this is what a Ghosts session looks like.

Edit: **** still can't link to time. 8:30 in.

Loading Video...

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fileman3

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#89 fileman3
Member since 2005 • 356 Posts

Opposite for me. The old Doom games are trash.

Much much rather play doom 3 - eternal

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#90 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

The most offensive part about Doom: Eternal is that for once, a ghost game is legitimately godlike lol

all of my games are masterpeices.

be it Doom Eternal, be it Half life 2, be it STALKER, be it Mafia, be it Max payne. all are.

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R4gn4r0k

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#91 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 33050 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:

Total fluke and lets be honest here, you know he's not scratching the higher level experience that really makes the game.

Bet this is what a Ghosts session looks like.

Edit: **** still can't link to time. 8:30 in.

shooty-shoot at the big thing until it is ded.

Where did you get this footage of me playing, btw?

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ConanTheStoner

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#92 ConanTheStoner
Member since 2011 • 17796 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

Where did you get this footage of me playing, btw?

Yup, knew it.

Old R4gn4r0k, on a regular panel, basic bitch fov, and playing with a controller, at it again.

inb4 elitist, but really don't know how anyone could enjoy playing like that.

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#93 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 33050 Posts

@ConanTheStoner said:

Yup, knew it.

Old R4gn4r0k, on a regular panel, basic bitch fov, and playing with a controller, at it again.

inb4 elitist, but really don't know how anyone could enjoy playing like that.

This game just really punishes mistakes. I feel that DOOM 2016 offered a lot more lean way in that.

But screw this, I'm not lowering Ultra-violence difficulty :P

Game even told me it will give me noob tanooki mario armor if I die enough. Haven't been offered it once!

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Ghost120x

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#94 Ghost120x
Member since 2009 • 5559 Posts

Something about 2016 and Eternal does get kind of tiring. I can’t put my finger on what it is though. I’m still enjoying myself with Eternal though.

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nepu7supastar7

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#95 nepu7supastar7
Member since 2007 • 5617 Posts

@jg4xchamp:

"Stop arguing in poor faith and it won't be an issue. You are choosing to be needlessly obtuse about shit."

- It doesn't matter how obtuse I'm being. If you're going to be a total asshole and insult people upfront then just don't say anything. It's not funny. It's not cute. And it's completely uncalled for.

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jg4xchamp

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#96 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts

@nepu7supastar7 said:

@jg4xchamp:

- It doesn't matter how obtuse I'm being.

Nah **** that

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jg4xchamp

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#97 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 62383 Posts
@ghosts4ever said:

all of my games are masterpeices.

This is false. But Doom Eternal is legit.

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so_hai

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#98 so_hai
Member since 2007 • 4035 Posts

I haven't played them but they look they have too much story to me.

Doom is killing demons.

That is all.

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JasonOfA36

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#99 JasonOfA36
Member since 2016 • 1437 Posts

Story is the least of my worries. 2016 was great, Eternal is good. Better than the borefest that is God of War that I stopped playing.

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Ghosts4ever

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#100 Ghosts4ever
Member since 2015 • 12596 Posts

Doom Eternal is also hardest Doom game and also much more difficult than Doom 1 and Doom 2 where you can kill enemy by one or 2 shot.