And people say AAA games don't innovate...

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PC_Rocks

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#1 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2603 Posts

Behold, Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare Lets You Reload While Aiming Down Sights.

"One other thing we added this year is the ADS [Aiming Down Sight] reload. In the past, if you're ADS, and you're shooting and you reload, the weapon would go off to the side, and you'd have to retrain to get to your target," Grigsby said in an interview for Activision. "This time if you reload, it stays on the target, so you can stay in the battle."

Also in the interview, Grigbsy spoke at a high level about why the reload animation is so important for Modern Warfare. "The reload to me is the pinnacle of the weapon; it makes you feel--after you've taken down five different dudes in a room--and you reload, you go, 'Sh*t yeah, you're done!'" Grigsby said.

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Ant_17

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#2 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 12935 Posts

I'm sure all the campers will enjoy this.

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Heirren

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#3  Edited By Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

Ah good ol Call of Duty, the PC series which casualized shooters.

?

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DaVillain-

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#4 DaVillain-  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 38581 Posts

Mommy, I'm going back to Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare!

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Ghosts4ever

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#5  Edited By Ghosts4ever  Online
Member since 2015 • 10736 Posts

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

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Calvincfb

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#6  Edited By Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

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Zaryia

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#7 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9966 Posts
@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

FPS on thumbsticks, big yikes.

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R4gn4r0k

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#8 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 31717 Posts

More animations are a great thing. Look at Insurgency Sandstorm.

Hope the PC version won't be a POS.

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Ghosts4ever

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#9 Ghosts4ever  Online
Member since 2015 • 10736 Posts

@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

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BassMan

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#10  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

COD weapon feel is a joke. All the animations play out at super speed and it looks so unnatural. The lack of recoil and auto targeting don't help either.

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Ant_17

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#11 Ant_17
Member since 2005 • 12935 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:

More animations are a great thing. Look at Insurgency Sandstorm.

Hope the PC version won't be a POS.

I think this is less animation, since you will barely see it.

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Gamerno6666

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#12 Gamerno6666
Member since 2013 • 6937 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:
@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

Why? You play in first person and shoot a gun. Sounds like a real fps to me.

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Ghosts4ever

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#13 Ghosts4ever  Online
Member since 2015 • 10736 Posts

@Gamerno6666 said:
@ghosts4ever said:
@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

Why? You play in first person and shoot a gun. Sounds like a real fps to me.

They are cinematic, scripted, walking in straight line, full of QTE, thus not a real FPS to me.

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Archangel3371

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#14 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 28718 Posts

The Call of Duty games get so much hate yet I still enjoy them very much myself and that’s all that really matters to me. I’m really looking forward to Modern Warfare.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#15 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

They do innovate. For instance, God of War was innovative.

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djoffer

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#16 djoffer
Member since 2007 • 1500 Posts

@ghosts4ever: but doom is full of qte, you saying doom is not a FPS???

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BassMan

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#17 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

@XVision84 said:

They do innovate. For instance, God of War was innovative.

In what way?

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warmblur

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#18  Edited By warmblur  Online
Member since 2017 • 3213 Posts

This will always be the goat of MP games back when DICE was at their best now the series is just another COD clone but back in 2005 this game did modern combat before COD ever did. It's a shame that COD4 gets all the credit for getting us out of the WW2 era of shooters when DICE did it first. It had a ranking system weapon unlocks,squads,commanders, 64 players matches nothing will ever top this. MP gaming is ruined these days at least for me thanks to greedy publishers and shallow gameplay the only innovation these days are publishers trying to find a way to hide their Microtransactions.

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Calvincfb

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#19  Edited By Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:
@Gamerno6666 said:
@ghosts4ever said:
@calvincfb said:

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

Why? You play in first person and shoot a gun. Sounds like a real fps to me.

They are cinematic, scripted, walking in straight line, full of QTE, thus not a real FPS to me.

It's still a FPS. FPS stands for first person shooter. COD is a shooter that you play in first person. There's no argument to be made here. They're FPS through and through.

You're conveniently forget the MP part of COD. The MP is not cinematic scripted and has no QTE.

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DragonfireXZ95

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#20  Edited By DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 25594 Posts

Hahaha. Call of Duty is such a joke. It's basically created a parody of itself over the years.

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hrt_rulz01

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#21 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 19361 Posts

@XVision84 said:

They do innovate. For instance, God of War was innovative.

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Random_Matt

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#22 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 4366 Posts

Damn, why do gamers keep with the rinse and repeat year after year.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#23 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: The entire game was one shot (which really cannot be overstated) and they turned a series known for action/blood into an emotional story about being a father.

Those two things were huge changes for the series and I can't think of any other recent series to do such a thing.

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PC_Rocks

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#24 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 2603 Posts

@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: The entire game was one shot (which really cannot be overstated) and they turned a series known for action/blood into an emotional story about being a father.

Those two things were huge changes for the series and I can't think of any other recent series to do such a thing.

None of what you described is innovative. All of that is done before and better without sacrificing gameplay.

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AJStyles

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#25  Edited By AJStyles
Member since 2018 • 1152 Posts

This is something I never knew I wanted. I hope every game has this.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#26  Edited By deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@pc_rocks: Definition of innovation: make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products

Everything I mentioned was a big divergence from the series norms. The difficulty of making a game one shot is crazy alone, and there was a very mixed reaction to the direction they were taking. It easily could have crashed and burned.

Also how was gameplay sacrificed? God of War has excellent gameplay.

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BassMan

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#27 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts
@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: The entire game was one shot (which really cannot be overstated) and they turned a series known for action/blood into an emotional story about being a father.

Those two things were huge changes for the series and I can't think of any other recent series to do such a thing.

The one shot is a gimmick and very much overstated. It doesn't really improve the game in any major way. I never played a game before that I wished it was one shot and GOW certainly did not have an impact on me where I want other games to be done in that way. I wouldn't even have noticed it if it wasn't for them trying to hype it up.

Changes in a series does not equal innovation. If other games have done it before, then it is not innovating.

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#28  Edited By deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: I agree it being one shot doesn't directly influence the gameplay, but it was huge for immersion in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on that though, I can see how someone else might not really care. I found it very impressive and it wasn't just me, multiple film directors gave them praise for it (which can be seen in Cory Barlogs comic con panel).

Which other games turned a pure action game into an emotional story focused experience? I actually can't think of any so I'm curious.

Also why wouldn't a drastic change in a series be an innovation? It's a new idea and a risky move by diverging from its norms. It suits the definition.

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R4gn4r0k

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#29 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 31717 Posts

@Ant_17: no, they said they will do more animations this time.

Look at rockstar games: the amount of animations and attention to detail in them really makes for a richer game.

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#30  Edited By Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@BassMan said:
@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: The entire game was one shot (which really cannot be overstated) and they turned a series known for action/blood into an emotional story about being a father.

Those two things were huge changes for the series and I can't think of any other recent series to do such a thing.

The one shot is a gimmick and very much overstated. It doesn't really improve the game in any major way. I never played a game before that I wished it was one shot and GOW certainly did not have an impact on me where I want other games to be done in that way. I wouldn't even have noticed it if it wasn't for them trying to hype it up.

Changes in a series does not equal innovation. If other games have done it before, then it is not innovating.

Please, provide a list of games that were all one shot.

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#31 Calvincfb
Member since 2018 • 0 Posts

@Random_Matt said:

Damn, why do gamers keep with the rinse and repeat year after year.

Well, some people have been playing lol, dota and other competitive games for years now, there's nothing more repetitive than this.

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BassMan

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#32  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: I agree it being one shot doesn't directly influence the gameplay, but it was huge for immersion in my opinion. We can agree to disagree on that though, I can see how someone else might not really care. I found it very impressive and it wasn't just me, multiple film directors gave them praise for it (which can be seen in Cory Barlogs comic con panel).

Which other games turned a pure action game into an emotional story focused experience? I actually can't think of any so I'm curious.

Games have been transitioning the cinematic camera into gameplay for a long time. Just take a look at Mario 64 below. GOW just happens to do it throughout the whole game. The cinematics were still worked on separately and stitched together. It is extra work to try to make it all seamless, but I don't feel there is much of a payoff to the one shot method.

Loading Video...

GOW was always story driven. So, it is more of change in tone and focus on the characters. There are other games that are less known for story that make a bigger change in the sequels. Look at Portal 1 to Portal 2. Portal 1 was very simple with the writing and story. Portal 2 expanded upon it greatly and was much more epic. Even a series like Max Payne which is a straight forward action shooter had the writing and presentation evolve greatly.

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#33  Edited By deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: Smooth game transitions are entirely different from a one shot game. The clip you linked had a lot of cuts and is just standard gameplay. God of War was one camera all game no cuts, it just panned as a camera man would. I've never seen any game on GoW's scale try that. Even in movies, having just one scene as one shot is lauded and there are awards handed out just for that. Creating a one shot scene is very difficult yet alone an entire game. There's a reason why most don't even attempt it.

GoW was not always story driven. I've played every entry and not once was emphasis placed on an emotional story with a deep message. Most of it is just a revenge story with interesting lore, a good reason for Kratos to kill everyone. Your example of Portal is different because Portal 2 just did everything Portal 1 did better. Same with Max Payne, from the start it was always a TPS with quirky writing and bullet time mechanics. God of War 3 and 4 are a world apart in what they try to do. They didn't just focus more on Kratos, they changed him a great deal in a meaningful way. If this were just expanding on certain things I'd agree with you, but it's not which is why this is called GoW not GoW 4.

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BassMan

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#34  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: Smooth game transitions are entirely different from a one shot game. The clip you linked had a lot of cuts and is just standard gameplay. God of War was one camera all game no cuts, it just panned as a camera man would. I've never seen any game on GoW's scale try that. Even in movies, having just one scene as one shot is lauded and there are awards handed out just for that. Creating a one shot scene is very difficult yet alone an entire game. There's a reason why most don't even attempt it.

GoW was not always story driven. I've played every entry and not once was emphasis placed on an emotional story with a deep message. Most of it is just a revenge story with interesting lore, a good reason for Kratos to kill everyone. Your example of Portal is different because Portal 2 just did everything Portal 1 did better. Same with Max Payne, from the start it was always a TPS with quirky writing and bullet time mechanics. God of War 3 and 4 are a world apart in what they try to do.

I know it has cuts, but I just used it to illustrate the transitions that it does have and that was one of the first major 3D games. GOW is definitely not shot entirely from the perspective of a camera man (unless he is on a magic floating cloud like in Mario 64). The dragon battles and such prove that. In movies it is much more difficult as you are dealing with live actors, practical effects, etc.. It is hard to do long scenes in one take. Sometimes they use tricks (like a structural beam in the foreground) to break up takes and give the illusion of one shot/take. Also, the one shot in GOW is not much of a factor to the gameplay and immersion. Playing from the perspective of Gordon Freeman in the Half-Life games is much more immersive. It makes you feel like you are in the world as things play out around you with no cinematic cameras and people look right at you, speak to you directly and react to your presence while you are still in full control. Those games were innovative.

GOW was indeed always story driven. The themes and characters may have been simple, but the story was a major focus. I actually learned quite a bit about Greek Mythology by playing the games. Again, just because there were substantial changes to GOW, it is not a game most would associate with being innovative. We have seen most of it all before in other games.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#35 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: How does the dragon battle prove that?

It's difficult in movies too, as you said potentially more so, but that's my point. If it was so much easier in gaming then you wouldn't have professionals in both the film and gaming industry singing praise for it. You might not care much for it, but that doesn't change the amount of effort nor the impact of what they achieved doing it. Show me developers saying God of War isn't special and the one shot isn't a big deal, I would be surprised. Again, GoW is the only game to do such a thing AFAIK.

Your statement regarding half life is your opinion. Everybody has their own opinion, but many in the industry and the reputation surrounding the game give credit to GoW immersion and the one shot being a big factor.

God of War was essentially Mad Max. You didn't go in for the story, you went in for the action and cinematic moments. You can learn plenty of mythology from all sorts of media that doesn't focus on selling a deep narrative. I'm not saying there was no story, there were interesting characters and yes story was on the priority list. However, it was not a narrative driven game like the last of us (for example). The developers themselves said this in many documentaries on its development and noted it being one of the most difficult parts of developing the game.

Innovation is changing convention through integration of new ideas. I have yet to see an example of a one shot game and a simplistic/brutal character (who is a Playstation icon, no less) turned into a father with a soft side. If they turned Mario into a bloodthirsty murderer in a mature revenge tale, I would call that an innovation for the series.

You don't need to revolutionize gaming to innovate. You just need to try something very different and GoW is very different.

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ProtossRushX

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#36 ProtossRushX
Member since 2007 • 5707 Posts

I bought and barely played call of duty black ops 4 think im just done with the series

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#37 Macutchi
Member since 2007 • 6905 Posts
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

you could unlock a scope for the assault rifle in doom 2016 iirc. be surprised if it didn't make a reappearance in eternal. not sure how reloading make a game any less of a fps

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BassMan

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#38  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts
@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: How does the dragon battle prove that?

It's difficult in movies too, as you said potentially more so, but that's my point. If it was so much easier in gaming then you wouldn't have professionals in both the film and gaming industry singing praise for it. You might not care much for it, but that doesn't change the amount of effort nor the impact of what they achieved doing it. Show me developers saying God of War isn't special and the one shot isn't a big deal, I would be surprised. Again, GoW is the only game to do such a thing AFAIK.

Your statement regarding half life is your opinion. Everybody has their own opinion, but many in the industry and the reputation surrounding the game give credit to GoW immersion and the one shot being a big factor.

God of War was essentially Mad Max. You didn't go in for the story, you went in for the action and cinematic moments. You can learn plenty of mythology from all sorts of media that doesn't focus on selling a deep narrative. I'm not saying there was no story, there were interesting characters and yes story was on the priority list. However, it was not a narrative driven game like the last of us (for example). The developers themselves said this in many documentaries on its development and noted it being one of the most difficult parts of developing the game.

Innovation is changing convention through integration of new ideas. I have yet to see an example of a one shot game and a simplistic/brutal character (who is a Playstation icon, no less) turned into a father with a soft side. If they turned Mario into a bloodthirsty murderer in a mature revenge tale, I would call that an innovation for the series.

You don't need to revolutionize gaming to innovate. You just need to try something very different and GoW is very different.

Loading Video...

How is the camera man physically moving to those vantage points? Not even a drone can move like that. It is a magical floating camera that can only be done in the virtual world. I never claimed that the one shot was easy. I said that it takes extra work and the payoff is nothing special. For the last time, changes to a series are not innovative unless they introduce things that have never been done before in other games. The one shot is a minor innovation for presentation and is not convincing enough to qualify GOW as an innovative game overall.

You keep mentioning the changes to Kratos, but it makes sense in the context of the series. He had a fresh start to life with a new wife and kid and wanted to get away from his past. Also, if you played GOW Ascension, you would have already seen the softer side to Kratos. Even if they made Kratos into a panzy with emo hair, it wouldn't be innovative.

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sealionact

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#39 sealionact
Member since 2014 • 4234 Posts

@zaryia: As opposed to millions of hackers/cheaters? I'll take thumbsticks....

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#40 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: Sorry if I wasn't clear, I didn't literally mean a cameraman following Kratos. I mean there are no cuts so the camera is always panning like a cameraman/drone were holding it instead of a bunch of static views. As I said, others and I believe it is a big deal. I know you personally don't believe so, but clearly it had a big impact on others. The effort was warranted.

I played Ascension and it really wasn't close to this at all. I see no reason why a series can't be innovative in/of itself. It suits the definition. Of course there were hints of Kratos' family in the past, that's why the change wasn't jarring/out of nowhere. However this dimension of his character wasn't even close to apparent imo.

It seems like we both agree on what GoW does to distinguish itself, we just don't agree on whether it's significant or not. You don't think it's a big deal, but to me it was one of the highlight changes of this generation. GoW isn't even my favourite game for me to claim unreasonable bias, I just adored the different direction they took and per the definition of innovation I consider it innovative.

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Zaryia

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#41 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9966 Posts
@sealionact said:

@zaryia: As opposed to millions of hackers/cheaters? I'll take thumbsticks....

Several times the players, so you notice it just as much as on Consoles. That is barely ever.

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#42 PernicioEnigma
Member since 2010 • 6131 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Holy shit you're predictable and boring. Does it ever occur to you that people have different preferences? I didn't even like Doom 2016, I found it repetitive and boring, and now you're saying real FPS games don't have reloading?

@ghosts4ever said:
@Gamerno6666 said:
@ghosts4ever said:
@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

Why? You play in first person and shoot a gun. Sounds like a real fps to me.

They are cinematic, scripted, walking in straight line, full of QTE, thus not a real FPS to me.

Sooo... the Metro series? That series you're always shilling for? Even though, by your own admission, it contains all the elements you hate in a FPS (including reloading)...

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BassMan

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#43 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

@XVision84 said:

@BassMan: Sorry if I wasn't clear, I didn't literally mean a cameraman following Kratos. I mean there are no cuts so the camera is always panning like a cameraman/drone were holding it instead of a bunch of static views. As I said, others and I believe it is a big deal. I know you personally don't believe so, but clearly it had a big impact on others. The effort was warranted.

I played Ascension and it really wasn't close to this at all. I see no reason why a series can't be innovative in/of itself. It suits the definition. Of course there were hints of Kratos' family in the past, that's why the change wasn't jarring/out of nowhere. However this dimension of his character wasn't even close to apparent imo.

It seems like we both agree on what GoW does to distinguish itself, we just don't agree on whether it's significant or not. You don't think it's a big deal, but to me it was one of the highlight changes of this generation. GoW isn't even my favourite game for me to claim unreasonable bias, I just adored the different direction they took and per the definition of innovation I consider it innovative.

Well, I am a huge God of War fan and I do prefer the old games as they are more epic and I enjoy the traditional beat-em-up/hack and slash combat. I also like games like Dark Souls and The Last of Us. So, I can appreciate the new combat for the series, character development, etc.. However, I play many games and I am unbiased. I compare a game to all games. I feel people seem to forget what other games have done or have not been exposed to certain elements. This was a big problem with LoZ:BotW. Everyone was hyping that game as GOAT and being so innovative because it was different from the previous 3D Zelda games. Many of the elements are common in other open world games. There was cool new stuff like the traversal system and they made use of the physics/simulation systems in cool ways, but people were hyping it way too much. For the record, I am also a huge Zelda fan and I do prefer the formula of the old games as well.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#44  Edited By deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

@BassMan: I'm playing BotW at the moment and I like it a lot. Compared to other Zelda games, I would also say BotW was innovative because it took the series in a unique direction. It wasn't just a sequel, it was a revision of the franchise. I just didn't play many Zelda games so it wasn't a big deal for me. I wouldn't say it's the GOAT but I'm still early on so I can't say for sure yet.

It's best to play many games since there are so many great ones from every platform. Would be a shame to only experience one.

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VFighter

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#45 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 5367 Posts

@ghosts4ever: Do you read the dumb shit you post?

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dxmcat

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#46 dxmcat
Member since 2007 • 2786 Posts

in·no·va·tive

/ˈinəˌvādiv/

Learn to pronounceadjective

  1. (of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original."innovative designs"
    • (of a person) introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking."an innovative thinker"

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Heirren

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#47 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

Arent triple aaa games where most of the innovation comes from?

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Litchie

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#48  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 24486 Posts

Wow. Such innovation. We're lucky to have the CoD franchise, a franchise that never stays the same and totally shakes up the AAA scene.

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#49  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10755 Posts

@PernicioEnigma said:
@ghosts4ever said:
@Gamerno6666 said:
@ghosts4ever said:

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

Why? You play in first person and shoot a gun. Sounds like a real fps to me.

They are cinematic, scripted, walking in straight line, full of QTE, thus not a real FPS to me.

Sooo... the Metro series? That series you're always shilling for? Even though, by your own admission, it contains all the elements you hate in a FPS (including reloading)...

@ghosts4ever

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scatteh316

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#50 scatteh316
Member since 2004 • 10259 Posts

@ghosts4ever said:
@calvincfb said:
@ghosts4ever said:

In Doom Eternal there is neither ADS nor reloading. a real FPS.

lol modern warfare. another generic FPS that focus on MP.

Any FPS is a real FPS.

no not really. games like COD are not real FPS.

So STALKER is not real FPS then as it has reloading and ADS.