Analyst believe PS5 will be 3600G launch at $399

I seriously doubt it myself. I think that it’ll most likely be $499.

In reality a Xbox console with 4 Teraflops and Zen 2 CPU that targets 1080p would outperform the XB1X by a lot.

Not gonna happen, especially if Microsoft releases that Lockhart system at $399.99. There will be a $399.99 PS5 SKU at launch, I am 99.9% confident in that.

@emgesp: Well we’ll just have to wait and see now won’t we.

That goes without saying, but we can both use common sense. Sony will not give Microsoft a price advantage at launch, no way. Remember 2006, Sony remembers.

Was watching a video where Mark Cerny interviewed Shawn Layden and they discussed the PS3 early woes and how they learned from that experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsi9D7BY__A

@emgesp: Okey dokey.

That's without variable shading rate and rapid pack math being used. This Vega 56 has 1500 Mhz (~11 TFLOPS) with Vega 64's memory bandwidth.

In terms of GCN optimization and workload, Grand Turismo Sport is similar to Forza Motorsport 7.

It would be awesome if Playstation 5 launched at $400.00 but that is very unlikely. I also have almost forgotten about Pachter. So whatever Micheal says it will be the reverse.

Sony could launch a Pachter PS5 edition?

@ronvalencia: Haven't you learnt from your massive errors with your stupendously false claim about the Xbox One X? The PS5 would not be aiming or catering for 8K gaming. Claiming otherwise is demonstrably false.

And you know this because both companies have released the prices for their upcoming systems right?

About 440 GFLOPS FP32/880 GFLOPS FP16 from 8 core Zen v2 at 1.6 Ghz which is 4X of Jaguar CPUs in PS4.

PC desktop SKU Zen v2 exceeds 1 TFLOPS FP32 CPU e.g. 4Ghz 8 cores and above. 8 core Skylake X at 4Ghz is ~2 TFLOPS FP32 via dual 512 bit AVX FMACS units

Ryzen 9's 16 cores Zen v2 at 4Ghz has about 2 TFLOPS FP32 (dual AVX2 256bit FMACS).

Higher CPU power changes game play simulation models e.g. Ashes of Singularity NPC count.

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-scarlett

"The only thing to know for sure is that both Sony and Microsoft are aiming higher than that "10.7 teraflops" number that Google threw out last week. (And, as has been reported, Microsoft's got a few things in the works."

I never said I know for a fact, just using common sense. If Microsoft has a $399.99 SKU ready at launch you can bet Sony will too. Sony was big on value for PS4/Pro, so why change that strategy when it worked out for them so well?

But you were stating as if it is fact and even now you are making the claim as if its an inevitable truth when its not because you factually do not know. You all need to stop with these overly assertive speculations.

I never claimed it as fact, I said I'm simply confident by using common sense. Stop acting like what I said was unreasonable. Do you honestly think Sony is going to give Microsoft a price advantage?

1. X1X GPU still has near Vega ROPS with multi-MB cache improvements instead of Vega rapid pack math. X1X's 32 ROPS with 2MB render cache is half of Vega 56/64's 64 ROPS with 4MB L2 cache. This feature is missing in Polaris IP.

Polaris IP has pack math not Vega's rapid pack math.

2. X1X CPU has Ryzen CCX module like layout design to reduce latency. No improvement with horizontal math unit expansion.

X1X is literally a half gen jump between PS4 to Xbox Anaconda.

AMD claimed X1X is related to Ryzen and Vega.

Games like RDR2 shows X1X has 2X effectiveness over PS4 Pro which scales from old GCN TFLOPS vs resolution scaling.

I factually can say that I don't know in the same way you don't know. I don't know the price of MS or Sony's next systems just like you don't know. You can try to argue that Sony will insure that they will have the price advantage but that is not based on facts but feelings. Lets not confuse feelings to reality.

Price/Performance ratio. The APU maybe more of a laptop level than mobile like the PS4. It will be customize for 8 cores. The GPU, maybe an RX 580 or something a little similar that fits in 7nm. Not sure if Sony going with GDDR5, GDDR5X, GDDR6 or go HBM2

Again, nobody claimed facts. I'm simply stating that $399.99 price point has worked too well for Sony this whole generation to simply just give up.

Yep because what worked 2013 would work in 2020 because there is no such thing as inflation or other factors.

Psst. Psst. 8k/24/low perf profile.

Pro was 2016 and still $399.99. Even with inflation taken into account I don't see Sony going past $449.99. $499.99 would be a huge mistake.

Nobody said developers would actually target 8K, just that the option is available because of the HDMI spec.

Fair enough but its not a given as you stated and implied earlier.

Well it would be the smart decision to match Microsoft's lowest priced SKU.

Maybe, maybe not it all depends on the offerings.

Well Cerny said "Price will be appealing" so hopefully that means under $500.

If Sony sells their "next gen" console for $399 then they're going to take a hell of loss per unit sold and will have to ratchet up the price of software to make up the difference. Which is to say that if the PS5 can be bought for $399 then get ready to spend $80 or more for your movie games.

@emgesp: I mean, I get it, but it seems like some people are hung up on this or pushing the goal to 8k/60/ray-tracing just to be absurd and cast doubt on the capability of a machine that's a follow-up to a generation that did NOT set 60fps as any kind of norm.

Which is good but we must keep in mind that we do get what we pay for.

If $400 means going from a 12 TFlop GPU to an 11 Tflop GPU I'll be fine.

I'm guessing $499 and better graphics and speed than the PS4 pro. Other than that who knows.

I don't entirely agree with this. If this is the case then I believe that SONY will release 2 different consoles as well. I don't see them trying to compete with a console with a smaller hard drive and no disc drive, unless they plan to release a version that is disc free as well. I do not in any way think it would be wise for SONY to match the price of the lowest priced SKU from MS if that is the case and SONY doesn't have a similar option.

If this thing is $399, we’re talking lower end Ryzen 5, RTX 2060/Vega 56 GPU performance, 16GB RAM total and some sort of ssd/mechanical hybrid. That is not a generation jump that we should consider worth it. At the same time, that’s a monster upgrade over the X and Pro. These mid-gen refresh consoles put Sony and Microsoft in a strange spot

I'm living rent free in tormys mind. I have to say that's there's plenty of room up here, but with a little draft, it obviously doesn't get used much, and what's with the Xbox paintings hanging up in here tormy lol.

I'm still waiting for SW's resident time traveller to go back in time and name my alt(s) as it keeps him up at night, and I know there isn't any to find, but you keep on being you tormy :)

You may be disappointed.

Is that the current rumor that Lockhart won't have a disc drive?

Ummm, it is confirmed to be an 8 Core Zen 2, so definitely not low end. There are only two main things we don't know about the PS5 CPU and that is if SMT is enabled and the clock speed. As far as GPU is concerned PS5 will not be less than 2x more powerful than the Pro. 2060 is only a 6.5 Tflop GPU, majority are pretty sure PS5 will be minimal 10 Tflops.

As far as ram is concerned 16 - 24GBs of GDDR6 is fine. There won't be less than 12GBs available to developers. XB1X already offers 9GBs for development.

PS5 won't be less than 10 Tflops, you can quote me on that.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-3000-cpu-specs-prices-online-retailer-ryzen-9-3850x-leak/

AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" CPUs Specifications (Rumored):

Get X1X's GPU, reduce it's power consumption by 60 percent and double it's TFLOPS and ROPS.

For example

1st. 150 watts (16 nm, 1172Mhz)

2nd. 50 watts (7 nm, no design changes)

3rd. 75 watts (expansion 40 CU to 60 CU scale, double 32 ROPS to 64 ROPS), already at 9 TFLOPS at 1172 Mhz.

4th. Scale clock speed until it reach 150 watts.

1500 Mhz with 60 CU yields 11.5 TFLOPS.

Real time power consumption comparison.

VII's power consumption spikes beyond 150 watts needs to be flatten e.g. throttled, under-voltage and reduce clock speed.

Options

1. VII with 60 CU at 1500 Mhz with ~11.5 TFLOPS

2. VII with reduce to 56 CU count at 1600 Mhz with ~11.5 TFLOPS <--- has higher geometry-raster power

3. VII with reduce to 52 CU at 1700 Mhz with 11.3 TFLOPS <--- has higher geometry-raster power

Stock Vega 56 has 10.5 TFLOPS with ~1455 Mhz clock speed (ROPS, Geometry-Raster and L2 cache).

Console GCNs has DX11.X MT with two graphics command processor units. I like to see four graphics command processor units in NAVI instead of ACE units.

@ronvalencia: And that relates to my comment how? You what? Nevermind.?

@emgesp: An 8 core Zen 2 could very well end up being a lower end Ryzen 5. If rumors are to be believed, the 5’s will be 8/16 CPUs. The chip in the consoles won’t hit 4GHz, probably not even close, so they will be comparable to the lower end 5’s, the 3400 or 3500. The 3600 and 3600X CPUs will be the high end Ryzen 5’s and will be much faster than what the PS5 and Xbox use.

@emgesp: I try to keep up on this and I know that there are many rumors floating around, but I have heard and read online many times that it is believed that MS will release a cheaper console without a disc drive. What the code name for the console is, or if it even exists is another question altogether. Although it has been rumored several times that they actually have 3 different consoles that will release simultaneously. If they indeed do release a cheaper console without a disc drive though, I don't think that SONY will try and compete with that price unless they offer a similar format.

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... He tend to have that effect on everyone.

Probably.

What i wonder is if they are going the APU route or dedicated components.

FALSE!

You're like a kid with a short attention span only hearing what you want to hear.

Cerny said, and I QUOTE:

""I believe that we will be able to release it at an SRP [suggested retail price] that will be appealing to gamers in light of its advanced feature set.""

Taking the bold in this sentence out of context completely changes it's meaning and that's what you've done to correlate to your personal desires.

Furthermore you say:

And then you follow up with

what?

based on?

So...when does the common sense in any of this kick in? All you did was scream PS4 launched at $400 and then your brain shut off.

I highlighted a few of your comments to point out that NOTHING you're saying is common sense. First off, that 6 TF 2060 you speak of is currently a $350 by itself!

You claim Ryzen CPU won't be low end? Ok. Then you follow up by saying that going from 12TF to 11TF would drop the price to $400? Seriously? Vega 56 which is 10.5TF just dropped to $279 msrp this year, and is a 2017 GPU! Navi is band tech new.

When you factor that Sony will also be putting in a custom SSD faster than any currently on the market with all the other things YOU claim, building a PC like that right now would cost you over $1000 EASY. Get grip on reality dude! Sony can take a hit but they're not going to loose $300 or $400 on each unit sold.

PS3 was a $200 loss and still had to retail at $600.

If you're DEAD SET of the idea that Sony will not release a system over $400 then COMMON SENSE says prepare for a system with the less than 11TF, low end Ryzen and lowest of everything else or a system with the specs you claim they should have but with the $500 price tag. You can't have both, that's "common sense".

The only problem i see with your argument is that you are taking cost to consumer at heart,neither sony or MS will pay even close to what you will pay for 2060GTX OR Vega 56,they don't buy cards they buy chips,so basically they buy a GPU and CPU ram all the components will be much much cheaper to them because the buy in the millions.

Sony release in 2006 a console for $600 console that matching it on PC was more than $1,500 if not more,it cost them to build it like $800 but building something like that on PC was far more expensive on 2006,blu-ray alone was $999 alone.

That say i don't think the PS4 will be $400 at all considering the tone in which Cerny say what you quoted from him,basically he say the price will be appealing for tech the machine will have something tell me is going to cost $500 or more. which i don't have a problem paying if the tech is good enough.

@tormentos: What you’re saying about consumer pricing vs manufacturer pricing is true. But with the PS3 example, we were peaking into enthusiast level PC parts there and the PC consumer market was primed for the next big leap. Sony will never take a loss like that again on a console.

If gamers are really looking for a $399 box, what they’re gonna get it will be a smaller jump than the PS4 to PS4 Pro was. At $499, Sony could push a RTX 2070ish/8 core Ryzen, 16GB GDDR6 and a 1TB ssd and only lose about $100 per box. But this thing couldn’t launch before holiday 2020 in order for the Navi, GDDR6 and Ryzen costs to drop. And really, is the tech jump that big? That would be the smallest generation gap ever.