AMD suing Ex employee's over X720 and PS4 info leak.

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clyde46

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#1 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

One of the key figures behind AMD's next-gen console development is alleged to have stolen sensitive documents from AMD.

Published on Jan 16, 2013

AMD has filed an injunction against four former employees accused of stealing over 10,000 sensitive documents containing trade secrets, confidential information and material pertaining to technology currently in development at AMD.

Robert Feldstein, Manoo Desai, Nicholas Kociuk and Richard Hagen are the four named in the document.

Robert Feldstein in particular was the head of AMD's console initiative before leaving to work for rival competitor NVidia. It is said that Feldstein played a large part in AMD acquiring the contracts to work on the Wii U, the PS4 and the Xbox 720.

Very little info about next-gen consoles was revealed in the news, however it does lead to other, more interesting speculation.

A while back a NeoGAF user by the name of Sweetvar69 posted on the forum, claiming that his friend worked at AMD and had access to details on the next-generation of consoles.

Initially the user struggled to present information properly, leading many other users to cast doubt on the initial teases.

However, Sweetvar69 revealed the codenames of Xbox 720's Kryptos and the PS4's Thebes ahead another, later confirmation that these are the names being used for the next-gen machines.

It's believed that Sweetvar69's information and the four ex-AMD employees are connected, and though many of the details have since been deleted we have still managed to discover a few extra details of next-gen hardware.

Xbox 720 and PS4 Rumours Detailed:

  • Durango (the rumoured codename for the Xbox 720 used by Microsoft) is taking priority over Sony's PS4.
  • The Xbox 720 will have 8 cores at 1.6GHz each.
  • Durango is described as having a "super computer architecture"
  • The PS4 will feature the Starsha APU (detailed below)
  • Sony's PS4 (codenamed Orbis) was delayed for 6 months to keep it on track with Durango. The RAM revealed (2GB) has since been rumoured to be upgraded as a part of this move. It is now believed that Sony is on track with the original schedule.
  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems - in other words, an APU design with additional processing units. Originally Sweetvar69 claimed the PS4 would have two separate GPUs, however.

PS4's Starsha APU Design:

  • New Starsha GNB 28nm TSMC
  • Milos
  • Southern Islands
  • DX11
  • SM 5.0
  • Open CL 1.0
  • Quad Pixel pipes 4
  • SIMDs 5
  • Texture Units 5TCP/2TCC
  • Render back ends 2
  • Scalar ALUs 320

Sweetvar69 posted these details - among others, since deleted - in a thread, but after scanning one of these documents when prompted, thereby validating the rumours, he decided to delete the posts for fear of AMD getting involved.

Latest PS4 Orbis Tech Specs

  • AMD x86 3.2GHz APU Solution (Jaguar/Steamroller), 4 cores (2 core pairs), [Higher Clock than Xbox 720/Durango]
  • Maybe AMD 8000 series GPU solution [Customised Solution Possibly utilising GPU + APU combo]
  • 2-4GB GDDR5
  • Launch Fall 2013/Early 2014

Latest Xbox 720 Durango/Kyrptos Tech Specs

  • AMD x86 Jaguar 1.6GHZ 8-Core [Targeting one core being dedicated for OS tasks]
  • AMD 8000 series GPU
  • ESRAM on the GPU (unknown amount)
  • 8GB Ram DDR3, [1.5GB of RAM likely reserved for the operating system]
  • Launch 2013

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1768355/amd_suing_exemployees_involved_with_ps4_xbox_720_wii_u.html

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Ly_the_Fairy

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#2 Ly_the_Fairy
Member since 2011 • 8541 Posts

  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems

clyde46

Combined for 128 bit annihilation!

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clyde46

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#3 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems

Ly_the_Fairy

Combined for 128 bit annihilation!

Dem graphics.
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Drasonak

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#4 Drasonak
Member since 2012 • 1515 Posts
One of these days, I will open one of these links and it will be actual confirmed information from Microsoft and/or Sony themselves. Well, at least there's background information that makes it seem a little more reliable.
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clyde46

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#5 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts
[QUOTE="Drasonak"]One of these days, I will open one of these links and it will be actual confirmed information from Microsoft and/or Sony themselves. Well, at least there's background information that makes it seem a little more reliable.

We arent going to get official information till E3 unless someone spills the beans before hand.
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Razor_defiace

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#6 Razor_defiace
Member since 2004 • 1618 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems

Ly_the_Fairy

Combined for 128 bit annihilation!


Meh, the Wii-U has blast processing! Therefore Wii-U> 720 and PS4

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Gue1

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#7 Gue1
Member since 2004 • 12171 Posts

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems

Razor_defiace

Combined for 128 bit annihilation!


Meh, the Wii-U has blast processing! Therefore Wii-U> 720 and PS4

for blast processing you need a good CPU and Wii-U's CPU is weaker than last gen consoles.

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Wasdie

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#8 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

The more I think about it, the more accurate I believe those specs are. I expect both the PS4 and Next Xbox to be very similar in power. There comes a point where more power isn't going to net you an major advantages since most game are multiplat anyways and you'll just end up jacking up the price of your console.

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faizan_faizan

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#9 faizan_faizan
Member since 2009 • 7869 Posts

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

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Wasdie

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#10 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

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ShadowDeathX

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#11 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11696 Posts
So the PS4 might actually be more powerful than the Next Xbox? Jaguar chips are suppose to be AMD's next-generation low-power solution. Intended for AMD's slim laptop line and tablets. I guess having 8 low-powered cores will make up for lower than normal per core performance. On the other hand, the PS4 might have more mainstream style APU. So who knows.
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faizan_faizan

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#12 faizan_faizan
Member since 2009 • 7869 Posts

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

Wasdie

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?
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Newhopes

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#13 Newhopes
Member since 2009 • 4775 Posts

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

PS4 used it Sony would have to pay a licence fee for evey console sold.

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superclocked

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#14 superclocked
Member since 2009 • 5864 Posts
"UPDATE: It turns out Sweetvar69's friend and source of these details is not one of the four people named in this AMD injunction." http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1768355/amd_suing_exemployees_involved_with_ps4_xbox_720_wii_u.html
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ShadowDeathX

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#15 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11696 Posts
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?

A high chance. Why? All Microsoft would need to do is pay the Blu-ray Disc Association licensing fees.
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Wasdie

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#16 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?

Pretty high.

Sony and Microsoft compete on the console level, but other than that they don't care. At the end of the year all that matters is if your entire company is making profits.

I would be surprised if Microsoft either goes 100% digital or uses some proprietary format.

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GulliversTravel

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#17 GulliversTravel
Member since 2009 • 3072 Posts
Its scary to see how similar in power they are let alone the the parts they are using. Anyway, MS are going to use the extra power to tack on non-gaming stuff it seems.
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osirisx3

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#18 osirisx3
Member since 2012 • 2113 Posts

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

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Wasdie

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#19 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

Its scary to see how similar in power they are let alone the the parts they are using. Anyway, MS are going to use the extra power to tack on non-gaming stuff it seems.GulliversTravel

If these rumors are true, AMD will basically be saved by these consoles. Their processors and GPUs haven't been doing that well against Nvidia and Intel.

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#20 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?

"The "Blu-ray Disc founder group" was started on May 20, 2002 byMITand nine leading electronic companies:Sony,Panasonic,Pioneer,Philips,Thomson,LG Electronics,Hitachi,Sharp, andSamsung"

It's not just Sony

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clyde46

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#21 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

osirisx3
Works just fine in laptops.
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faizan_faizan

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#22 faizan_faizan
Member since 2009 • 7869 Posts

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

Wasdie

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?

Pretty high.

Sony and Microsoft compete on the console level, but other than that they don't care. At the end of the year all that matters is if your entire company is making profits.

I would be surprised if Microsoft either goes 100% digital or uses some proprietary format.

Makes sense, So like the person above said "pay a licence fee for evey console sold" Is this true? I mean wouldn't that be too much? Are there any other technologies that are being ALREADY used in consoles that are owned by any other company, Much like a rival?
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04dcarraher

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#23 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23649 Posts

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

osirisx3
Chances are that the IGP in the APU will be for non gaming purposes, but then again APU+ gpu is like crossfire so it will increase performance.
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Evz0rz

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#24 Evz0rz
Member since 2006 • 4624 Posts
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

Did i saw DX11? What a load of lulz, DirectX is owned by M$ i highly doubt if PS4 will ever get permission.

faizan_faizan

Why not? Microsoft is first and foremost a software company. They'll sell them the rights to DX. Why not profit on your competition?

I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?

I think it's almost guaranteed.
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04dcarraher

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#25 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23649 Posts
Sony does not hold all Bluray patents so MS can go with any other manufacturer like LG or whatever
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osirisx3

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#26 osirisx3
Member since 2012 • 2113 Posts

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

04dcarraher

Chances are that the IGP in the APU will be for non gaming purposes, but then again APU+ gpu is like crossfire so it will increase performance.

Sounds dumb to use an apu at all. Why would you need two gpus for that?

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Wasdie

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#27 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] I don't hate Sony, But tell me how much of a chance is there of XB3 using the Blu Ray technology?faizan_faizan

Pretty high.

Sony and Microsoft compete on the console level, but other than that they don't care. At the end of the year all that matters is if your entire company is making profits.

I would be surprised if Microsoft either goes 100% digital or uses some proprietary format.

Makes sense, So like the person above said "pay a licence fee for evey console sold" Is this true? I mean wouldn't that be too much? Are there any other technologies that are being ALREADY used in consoles that are owned by any other company, Much like a rival?

I don't know if Sony and Microsoft share tech. I know Apple and Samsung do quite a bit, despite them going after each other legally.

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Wasdie

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#28 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

04dcarraher

Chances are that the IGP in the APU will be for non gaming purposes, but then again APU+ gpu is like crossfire so it will increase performance.

Well Sony using an APU means they could potentially emulate the Cell on it a lot easier.

An APU can also be a very power CPU, great for large amounts of physics processing, procedural generation, and taking a load off of the GPU. I think it's smart to have an APU for their main CPU. 4 strong cores can still get beaten by a good APU for a lot of tasks.

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04dcarraher

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#29 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23649 Posts

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="osirisx3"]

2 GPUS doesn not work that well would be better to have 1 powerful gpu and 1 powerful cpu.

osirisx3

Chances are that the IGP in the APU will be for non gaming purposes, but then again APU+ gpu is like crossfire so it will increase performance.

Sounds dumb to use an apu at all. Why would you need two gpus for that?

why not ? AMD APU's allows more flexibility. without adding any negatives
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NEWMAHAY

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#30 NEWMAHAY
Member since 2012 • 3824 Posts
All the consoles using AMD will probably make next-generation console graphic king arguments boring.
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Wasdie

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#31 Wasdie  Moderator
Member since 2003 • 53593 Posts

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Chances are that the IGP in the APU will be for non gaming purposes, but then again APU+ gpu is like crossfire so it will increase performance. 04dcarraher

Sounds dumb to use an apu at all. Why would you need two gpus for that?

why not ? AMD APU's allows more flexibility. without adding any negatives

Negatives are you get less powerful general procesing cores if you want to keep the price down. Depending on what you're doing in your game, this could be a bad thing.

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savagetwinkie

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#32 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="osirisx3"]

Sounds dumb to use an apu at all. Why would you need two gpus for that?

Wasdie

why not ? AMD APU's allows more flexibility. without adding any negatives

Negatives are you get less powerful general procesing cores if you want to keep the price down. Depending on what you're doing in your game, this could be a bad thing.

the APU is better for most things, think of it like what the SPE's did for the CELL, it allowed much better animation and physics, and in microsofts case kinect. The CPU cores are probably negligible in their eyes since the vast majority of game that would really need it don't really exist on consoles, strategy games. Hopefully the clock speeds aren't that low, even if its more efficient for branchy code to have shorter pipes, the amount of through put faster CPU's can achieve is still good for things like... loading or streaming data to.. apu's for calculations.
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Vari3ty

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#33 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

So what does this mean? Both consoles are around the same in power? One is slightly better than the other?

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#34 TwistedShade
Member since 2012 • 3139 Posts

Wonder what kind of payday AMD is getting for having their chip's in both next gen consoles.

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clyde46

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#35 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

Wonder what kind of payday AMD is getting for having their chip's in both next gen consoles.

TwistedShade
A big one.
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#36 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

[QUOTE="clyde46"]

  • Both the PS4 and the Xbox 720 are expected to run a two Jaguar systems

Ly_the_Fairy

Combined for 128 bit annihilation!

DO THE MATH

YXv2O.jpg

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ZombieKiller7

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#37 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts

Interesting.

So Xbox and PS are swapping architecture next gen?

With Xbox being an 8 core CPU (ie like the cell) and PS focusing more on GPU (APU + GPU)?

I think alot of it will depend on the OS, API and devkit more than the hardware.

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DJ_Headshot

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#38 DJ_Headshot
Member since 2010 • 6427 Posts

If xbox 720 is really going to have 8gb of ram guess I will pay a bit more for 3 4gb sticks vs 2gb sticks to go along with my 3 1gb I have now when I upgrade my ram. Its not needed yet for current games but my pc slows down when going back to windows desktop from just having played a ram heavy game as it allocated it from windows and other applications to the game and ram is pretty cheap now adays and its one thing you can actually future proof along with mechanical harddrive space and not have it be a inefficient use of money. If next-gen games need more then that I'll replace the 1gb with 3 more 4gb sticks although I don't think future pc games will need more then 15gb even heavily modded with mods current demanding games are only using 1gb-2gb.

We'll see if an i7 920 overclocked to 4.1 ghz will still be good enough for modern games really don't want to upgrade to another quad core still waiting for intel to release a 6 core at a mainstream price($400 would be max I'd pay for a 6 core not this $1000 crap they have going on). My gpu will obviously will need an upgrade once games running on next-gen engines start coming out but mine is still fine for now.

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loosingENDS

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#39 loosingENDS
Member since 2011 • 11793 Posts

Latest rumors have xbox 720 GPU in the 8800 range (specifically 8880 was mentioned)

So, it is the top end of 8000 series, not just a 8000 card

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ZombieKiller7

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#40 ZombieKiller7
Member since 2011 • 6463 Posts

If xbox 720 is really going to have 8gb of ram guess I will pay a bit more for 3 4gb sticks vs 2gb sticks to go along with my 3 1gb I have now when I upgrade my ram. Its not needed yet for current games but my pc slows down when going back to windows desktop from just having played a ram heavy game as it allocated it from windows and other applications to the game and ram is pretty cheap now adays and its one thing you can actually future proof along with mechanical harddrive space and not have it be a inefficient use of money. If next-gen games need more then that I'll replace the 1gb with 3 more 4gb sticks although I don't think future pc games will need more then 15gb even heavily modded with mods current demanding games are only using 1gb-2gb.

We'll see if an i7 920 overclocked to 4.1 ghz will still be good enough for modern games really don't want to upgrade to another quad core still waiting for intel to release a 6 core at a mainstream price($400 would be max I'd pay for a 6 core not this $1000 crap they have going on). My gpu will obviously will need an upgrade once games running on next-gen engines start coming out but mine is still fine for now.

DJ_Headshot

4GB RAM is fine, I don't think many programs use all of it.

i7 is overkill and will be just fine for the forseeable 10 years at least.

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ShadowDeathX

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#41 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11696 Posts

So what does this mean? Both consoles are around the same in power? One is slightly better than the other?

Vari3ty

We don't know. The most detailed thing in the OP is the CPU and we don't even know how powerful a Jaguar core is. All we know is that Jaguar is AMD's lower-end laptop and tablet solution. Which will be sold in Dual and Quad Core variants. How powerful will an octo-core version be is unknown?

The PS4 is more easier to understand since it will be using an evolution of current APUs that are already in the market. My guess it will be as powerful as an AMD A10-4600M or better.

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Heil68

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#42 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 58668 Posts
So the PS4 will be a beast, good to know.
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clyde46

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#43 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

Latest rumors have xbox 720 GPU in the 8800 range (specifically 8880 was mentioned)

So, it is the top end of 8000 series, not just a 8000 card

loosingENDS
Where?
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PCgameruk

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#44 PCgameruk
Member since 2012 • 2273 Posts

[QUOTE="Drasonak"]One of these days, I will open one of these links and it will be actual confirmed information from Microsoft and/or Sony themselves. Well, at least there's background information that makes it seem a little more reliable.clyde46
We arent going to get official information till E3 unless someone spills the beans before hand.

spilled%2Bthe%2Bbeans.jpgOh_Noooo_by_riku0roxas.jpg

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Gue1

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#45 Gue1
Member since 2004 • 12171 Posts

Interesting.

So Xbox and PS are swapping architecture next gen?

With Xbox being an 8 core CPU (ie like the cell) and PS focusing more on GPU (APU + GPU)?

I think alot of it will depend on the OS, API and devkit more than the hardware.

ZombieKiller7

The Cell can render graphics while that 8 core CPU cannot so they are nothing alike. General purpose cores and SPE's are not the same thing.

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deactivated-57d8401f17c55

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#46 deactivated-57d8401f17c55
Member since 2012 • 7221 Posts

Based on this it sounds like the Ps4's Cpu will steamroll the 720's.

Also I don't really think it's a good idea to use DDR3 exclusively, esp. if it's just 1600. You would think they'd want some graphics ram too. It might work for Wii U to use DDR3 but it's designed for 720p output...

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TwistedShade

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#47 TwistedShade
Member since 2012 • 3139 Posts

[QUOTE="loosingENDS"]

Latest rumors have xbox 720 GPU in the 8800 range (specifically 8880 was mentioned)

So, it is the top end of 8000 series, not just a 8000 card

clyde46

Where?

I would like to know too. Since according to IGN it's not even in the 7000 series.

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Timstuff

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#48 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

Latest rumors have xbox 720 GPU in the 8800 range (specifically 8880 was mentioned)

So, it is the top end of 8000 series, not just a 8000 card

loosingENDS

The Xbox 720 and PS4 will probably have GPUs comparable to the 8850, which is the 8000 series equivelent to a 7850, which is a mid-range card. The 8000 series will be a marginal step up from the 7000 series, so if you want a good idea of what the Xbox 720 will be able to put out you should take a look at what the 7850 is currently capable of doing. They are not going to go with a top of the line GPU though, because that would end up costing as much as the system itself is set to retail for.

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DJ_Headshot

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#49 DJ_Headshot
Member since 2010 • 6427 Posts

[QUOTE="DJ_Headshot"]

If xbox 720 is really going to have 8gb of ram guess I will pay a bit more for 3 4gb sticks vs 2gb sticks to go along with my 3 1gb I have now when I upgrade my ram. Its not needed yet for current games but my pc slows down when going back to windows desktop from just having played a ram heavy game as it allocated it from windows and other applications to the game and ram is pretty cheap now adays and its one thing you can actually future proof along with mechanical harddrive space and not have it be a inefficient use of money. If next-gen games need more then that I'll replace the 1gb with 3 more 4gb sticks although I don't think future pc games will need more then 15gb even heavily modded with mods current demanding games are only using 1gb-2gb.

We'll see if an i7 920 overclocked to 4.1 ghz will still be good enough for modern games really don't want to upgrade to another quad core still waiting for intel to release a 6 core at a mainstream price($400 would be max I'd pay for a 6 core not this $1000 crap they have going on). My gpu will obviously will need an upgrade once games running on next-gen engines start coming out but mine is still fine for now.

ZombieKiller7

4GB RAM is fine, I don't think many programs use all of it.

i7 is overkill and will be just fine for the forseeable 10 years at least.

I'm fine with 3gb now but future games are defiantly going to need more ram windows already takes up like a 1gb of that. Ram is cheap enough I'd rather pay the extra $30 for double the amount(6vs 12gb) when I do add some more even if it is overkill its not like when ddr3 first came out and I paid like $100 for just 3gb was not going to buy more then I needed back then and if the i7 920 stays useful that long that would crazy 14 years withotu a cpu upgrade! The chip will likely die on me before I really need to upgrade if true.

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deactivated-59b71619573a1

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#50 deactivated-59b71619573a1
Member since 2007 • 38222 Posts

Latest rumors have xbox 720 GPU in the 8800 range (specifically 8880 was mentioned)

So, it is the top end of 8000 series, not just a 8000 card

loosingENDS

Which still isn't anything to write home about when you see it like that.

However this gen has shown how much you can squeeze out of crap so I will hold off judgement until I see some real time next gen footage