AMD is now worth more than Intel for the first time in 50+ Years. Intel May Shutdown its Gaming GPU division

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Xtasy26

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#1 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

Historic moment in PC Gaming History. AMD is now worth more than Intel after Intel's last earning call which tanked Intel's value.

As of today AMD is worth 158.4 Billion. Intel is worth 146.1 Billion. AMD now has technological leadership in Gaming CPUs and has a gap the size of the Grand Canyon when comparing Intel's latest foray into Gaming GPUs vs AMD's Gaming GPUs.

As Gamers Nexus points out their Intel Gaming GPU drivers are a joke.

I feel like Karma is coming to bite intel in the a** for the 10+ years Intel was bribing PC Makers not to use AMD CPUs in their PCs going back to the Pentium 4 days and prior. Which resulted in billions of dollars in sales for AMD.

Regardless as much as I hate to say it I really want Intel to succeed in the Gaming GPU space. High End Graphics Cards costing in the $1000+ range is getting ridiculous. AMD used to have the better price/performance (they still do in certain cards) but its as if they are following Nvidia with ridiculous prices for Gaming Graphics Cards. I was hoping Intel entering the arena we would get back to normal with high end graphics cards in the $500 --$700 range like it was 5 - 10 years ago.

I really hope Intel does succeed in their upcoming generation of GPUs and doesn't give up after round 1 of their GPUs coming out to consumers.

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hardwenzen

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#2 hardwenzen
Member since 2005 • 22017 Posts

Now they have no excuse for being the Welfare version of nvidia gpu's and garbage drivers.

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Xtasy26

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#3 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

Intel's Gaming GPU division has apparently lost the company $3.5 billion. Several hundred million in the last quarter alone.

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2022/08/11/intels-dgpu-group-has-lost-the-company-3-5-billion-estimates-analyst/

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Lavamelon

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#4 Lavamelon
Member since 2016 • 427 Posts

ARM is worth around 40 billion (according to how much Nvidia wanted to buy them out for, but got blocked by authorities). Pretty strange how Intel and AMD are both bigger than ARM, even though ARM is far more widespread than x86.

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simple-facts

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#5 simple-facts
Member since 2021 • 1678 Posts

Great news,I've really been struggling to sleep worrying about a company's profits.....

Oh wait...no I haven't 🤣

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R4gn4r0k

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#6  Edited By R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 41246 Posts

Yay, even less GPU manufacturers covering a huge market. Hooray

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Juub1990

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#7 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 11997 Posts

@Xtasy26: Use your brain for 30 seconds. Intel hasn’t "lost 3.5B”, they invested 3.5B.

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PC_Rocks

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#8 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7313 Posts

@lavamelon said:

ARM is worth around 40 billion (according to how much Nvidia wanted to buy them out for, but got blocked by authorities). Pretty strange how Intel and AMD are both bigger than ARM, even though ARM is far more widespread than x86.

Because ARM doesn't manufacture their own CPUs. They license out their designs and instruction sets to others and anyone can license it.

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kejigoto

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#9 kejigoto
Member since 2004 • 2557 Posts

My favorite part about this whole "Intel might shut down their GPU division!!!" nonsense is how when you do any actual looking into it that's not really in the cards and makes zero sense from a business standpoint considering they've got a multi-year multi-generation roadmap in place which investors likely won't respond well to suddenly see that all get axed.

Even the analyst firm suggesting who asked the question if Intel should says they are basically blind to the situation and it's a 50/50 guess, at best, on their part as they don't know the long term plans of Intel and are just looking at what lost them money IF they want a quick turn around to report profits next quarter.

**** even Gamer Nexus says it's unlikely that Intel walks away from this and the Intel rep even stated that, on their channel, that they were anticipating things being a rough go at first.

And yet somehow this idea keeps persisting that because the driver situation is bad Intel is gonna pull the plug on the whole thing. Pointing to Intel shutting down Optane recently when it started over 5 years ago and never turned a profit just feels dumb to use as proof that Intel will shut this operation down so quickly because of bad drivers for the first generation of GPU's.

If you thought Intel was gonna compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out the gate you're an idiot.

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comp_atkins

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#10 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37999 Posts

@simple-facts said:

Great news,I've really been struggling to sleep worrying about a company's profits.....

Oh wait...no I haven't 🤣

become a shareholder....

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osan0

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#11 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16950 Posts

It's going to be a tough battle for them on both fronts (which is great....some proper competition \o/).

They are fighting a very good fight on the CPU front though with what they have. Alder lake is a big step in the right direction for them (after a very poor 11th gen). They havent really made anything Bulldozer bad and are keeping AMD very honest (and AMD are doing the same in return to intel). Long may it continue.

On the GPU front: there is no getting around it. That's going to be a massive uphill battle. Their Vulkan and DX12 performance looks solid. But games using older APIs look like a bit of a disaster at the moment. They also really seem to be struggling to get a GPU out. d they have the stock but are holding onto it because of the drivers? Or can they not make them?

But yeah: that's a huge challenge for them. It's one they need to make though i think so i dont see them selling off their GPU division. Having an in house GPU opens more doors for business. There are reasons why 2/3 consoles use AMD (and nintendo had a long relationship with them before the switch....they could very well go back too). No intel in the steam deck either. They have nothing competitive in the AI space hardware wise. They are also giving business to Nvidia in the super computer space because they only have part of an overall compute package.

Arc is not just about getting into gaming GPUs. Med to long term, its about intel being able to provide a complete platform to companies in different industries. For that they need a widely parallel compute architecture. So they will just have to suck it up.

Much like Godzilla though, Chipzilla is more than capable of brushing off having its face smashed into a building....repeatedly :P.

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Jag85

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#12 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 17099 Posts

AMDoes what Intelost

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lamprey263

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#13 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 42132 Posts

I saw someone posted Intel's GPU was a big joke. But, Rome wasn't built in a day and all that, they should keep up with R&D and recruitment of necessary talent if they want to remain a competitor.

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Fedor

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#14 Fedor
Member since 2015 • 10623 Posts

Highly doubt they ditch their GPU division and nobody should be cheering for them to do so. Competition is good for the consumer.

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Lavamelon

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#15 Lavamelon
Member since 2016 • 427 Posts

@pc_rocks: AMD doesn’t manufacture their CPUs or GPUs either, they outsource the physical work to GlobalFoundries and TSMC. AMD are fabless, meaning they only work on architecture design and not physical manufacturing. Intel still manufacture their CPUs though.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#16 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 13157 Posts

dumb post, though its not surprising coming from an AMD nut hugger. AMD being worth more than intel is about as newsworthy as tesla being with more than GM, Ford or Toyota. Its all speculation based, and not founded on actual profit, revenue, marketshare and other fundamentals. As for intel getting out of the video card game, hopefully they don't. They just got started, and any new business takes time to get a foot hold in.

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Xtasy26

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#17 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

@Juub1990 said:

@Xtasy26: Use your brain for 30 seconds. Intel hasn’t "lost 3.5B”, they invested 3.5B.

No, how about you use your brain and read what it states in their Quarterly income statements. Intel started breaking down the GPU division sales. Since Q1 2021 they lost over $2.1 billion. Jon Peddie referenced it was likely more since intel recently started segmenting their GPU division report and does inquire money they poured in vs loss going back to 2016 when the project started. Granted the additional loss was conjecture. But we do know for sure they GPU division has been losing money including over half-a billion last quarter alone.

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Xtasy26

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#18 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts
@kejigoto said:

My favorite part about this whole "Intel might shut down their GPU division!!!" nonsense is how when you do any actual looking into it that's not really in the cards and makes zero sense from a business standpoint considering they've got a multi-year multi-generation roadmap in place which investors likely won't respond well to suddenly see that all get axed.

Even the analyst firm suggesting who asked the question if Intel should says they are basically blind to the situation and it's a 50/50 guess, at best, on their part as they don't know the long term plans of Intel and are just looking at what lost them money IF they want a quick turn around to report profits next quarter.

**** even Gamer Nexus says it's unlikely that Intel walks away from this and the Intel rep even stated that, on their channel, that they were anticipating things being a rough go at first.

And yet somehow this idea keeps persisting that because the driver situation is bad Intel is gonna pull the plug on the whole thing. Pointing to Intel shutting down Optane recently when it started over 5 years ago and never turned a profit just feels dumb to use as proof that Intel will shut this operation down so quickly because of bad drivers for the first generation of GPU's.

If you thought Intel was gonna compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out the gate you're an idiot.

No one was expecting them to compete out of the gate. Like I said I want them to succeed.

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

dumb post, though its not surprising coming from an AMD nut hugger. AMD being worth more than intel is about as newsworthy as tesla being with more than GM, Ford or Toyota. Its all speculation based, and not founded on actual profit, revenue, marketshare and other fundamentals. As for intel getting out of the video card game, hopefully they don't. They just got started, and any new business takes time to get a foot hold in.

How is it dumb post when this shows that AMD is in a stronger footing then they were 10 years ago? How am I a AMD nut hugger when I got a NVIDIA 3090 Founders Edition a $1600+ graphics cards when I could have gotten AMD 6900XT? That makes me look for like a NVIDIA fan boy. I buy which is best for me that provides the best performance for my budget. Its that simple. Having a valuation larger than your competitor which you had been playing second fiddle for the past 50+ years is something noteworthy. Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and has first to market advantage over their competitors who are only following Tesla's lead hence its market evaluation. Whether you agree with their evaluation or not is irrelevant. That's not how the free market works.

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#19 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 11997 Posts
@Xtasy26 said:

No, how about you use your brain and read what it states in their Quarterly income statements. Intel started breaking down the GPU division sales. Since Q1 2021 they lost over $2.1 billion. Jon Peddie referenced it was likely more since intel recently started segmenting their GPU division report and does inquire money they poured in vs loss going back to 2016 when the project started. Granted the additional loss was conjecture. But we do know for sure they GPU division has been losing money including over half-a billion last quarter alone.

How can their GPU division make any money when they don't even sell them? They're putting money into R&D to get a functioning product out. The only market they serve is China with crappy GPU's that will never see the light of day here.

It's pure clickbait nonsense.

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Xtasy26

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#20 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

@Juub1990 said:
@Xtasy26 said:

No, how about you use your brain and read what it states in their Quarterly income statements. Intel started breaking down the GPU division sales. Since Q1 2021 they lost over $2.1 billion. Jon Peddie referenced it was likely more since intel recently started segmenting their GPU division report and does inquire money they poured in vs loss going back to 2016 when the project started. Granted the additional loss was conjecture. But we do know for sure they GPU division has been losing money including over half-a billion last quarter alone.

How can their GPU division make any money when they don't even sell them? They're putting money into R&D to get a functioning product out. The only market they serve is China with crappy GPU's that will never see the light of day here.

It's pure clickbait nonsense.

That's not how accounting works. If a said division is costing me said amount of $, I would want to know how much I am making out of that division versus running that division, quarter after quarter. You would be a fool not to keep accounting in such manner. Also, part of transparency, for the sake for the investors.

It's not a clickbait, that's how a real business works in the real world. It's up to the CEO and intel's Executive management if they want to keep on running their GPU division even if it's losing them money each quarter also if investors are willing to invest in intel when they look at the charts of which division is making them money vs which is not.

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#21 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 13157 Posts

@Xtasy26 said:
@kejigoto said:

My favorite part about this whole "Intel might shut down their GPU division!!!" nonsense is how when you do any actual looking into it that's not really in the cards and makes zero sense from a business standpoint considering they've got a multi-year multi-generation roadmap in place which investors likely won't respond well to suddenly see that all get axed.

Even the analyst firm suggesting who asked the question if Intel should says they are basically blind to the situation and it's a 50/50 guess, at best, on their part as they don't know the long term plans of Intel and are just looking at what lost them money IF they want a quick turn around to report profits next quarter.

**** even Gamer Nexus says it's unlikely that Intel walks away from this and the Intel rep even stated that, on their channel, that they were anticipating things being a rough go at first.

And yet somehow this idea keeps persisting that because the driver situation is bad Intel is gonna pull the plug on the whole thing. Pointing to Intel shutting down Optane recently when it started over 5 years ago and never turned a profit just feels dumb to use as proof that Intel will shut this operation down so quickly because of bad drivers for the first generation of GPU's.

If you thought Intel was gonna compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out the gate you're an idiot.

No one was expecting them to compete out of the gate. Like I said I want them to succeed.

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

dumb post, though its not surprising coming from an AMD nut hugger. AMD being worth more than intel is about as newsworthy as tesla being with more than GM, Ford or Toyota. Its all speculation based, and not founded on actual profit, revenue, marketshare and other fundamentals. As for intel getting out of the video card game, hopefully they don't. They just got started, and any new business takes time to get a foot hold in.

How is it dumb post when this shows that AMD is in a stronger footing then they were 10 years ago? How am I a AMD nut hugger when I got a NVIDIA 3090 Founders Edition a $1600+ graphics cards when I could have gotten AMD 6900XT? That makes me look for like a NVIDIA fan boy. I buy which is best for me that provides the best performance for my budget. Its that simple. Having a valuation larger than your competitor which you had been playing second fiddle for the past 50+ years is something noteworthy. Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and has first to market advantage over their competitors who are only following Tesla's lead hence its market evaluation. Whether you agree with their evaluation or not is irrelevant. That's not how the free market works.

end of the day, intel pulls in $50 billion in profit per year while AMD pulls in about $4 billion, and nvidia maybe $7 billion.

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PC_Rocks

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#22 PC_Rocks
Member since 2018 • 7313 Posts

@lavamelon said:

@pc_rocks: AMD doesn’t manufacture their CPUs or GPUs either, they outsource the physical work to GlobalFoundries and TSMC. AMD are fabless, meaning they only work on architecture design and not physical manufacturing. Intel still manufacture their CPUs though.

Sorry. I meant they don't sell their own chips.

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Heil68

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#23 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 58972 Posts

Yikes, didn't expect that.

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#24 daredevils2k
Member since 2015 • 4018 Posts

I’m a AMD guy, But AMD did buy ATI and that is only the reason why AMD has a graphics card dept.

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Xtasy26

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#25 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1 said:
@Xtasy26 said:
@kejigoto said:

My favorite part about this whole "Intel might shut down their GPU division!!!" nonsense is how when you do any actual looking into it that's not really in the cards and makes zero sense from a business standpoint considering they've got a multi-year multi-generation roadmap in place which investors likely won't respond well to suddenly see that all get axed.

Even the analyst firm suggesting who asked the question if Intel should says they are basically blind to the situation and it's a 50/50 guess, at best, on their part as they don't know the long term plans of Intel and are just looking at what lost them money IF they want a quick turn around to report profits next quarter.

**** even Gamer Nexus says it's unlikely that Intel walks away from this and the Intel rep even stated that, on their channel, that they were anticipating things being a rough go at first.

And yet somehow this idea keeps persisting that because the driver situation is bad Intel is gonna pull the plug on the whole thing. Pointing to Intel shutting down Optane recently when it started over 5 years ago and never turned a profit just feels dumb to use as proof that Intel will shut this operation down so quickly because of bad drivers for the first generation of GPU's.

If you thought Intel was gonna compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out the gate you're an idiot.

No one was expecting them to compete out of the gate. Like I said I want them to succeed.

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

dumb post, though its not surprising coming from an AMD nut hugger. AMD being worth more than intel is about as newsworthy as tesla being with more than GM, Ford or Toyota. Its all speculation based, and not founded on actual profit, revenue, marketshare and other fundamentals. As for intel getting out of the video card game, hopefully they don't. They just got started, and any new business takes time to get a foot hold in.

How is it dumb post when this shows that AMD is in a stronger footing then they were 10 years ago? How am I a AMD nut hugger when I got a NVIDIA 3090 Founders Edition a $1600+ graphics cards when I could have gotten AMD 6900XT? That makes me look for like a NVIDIA fan boy. I buy which is best for me that provides the best performance for my budget. Its that simple. Having a valuation larger than your competitor which you had been playing second fiddle for the past 50+ years is something noteworthy. Tesla is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and has first to market advantage over their competitors who are only following Tesla's lead hence its market evaluation. Whether you agree with their evaluation or not is irrelevant. That's not how the free market works.

end of the day, intel pulls in $50 billion in profit per year while AMD pulls in about $4 billion, and nvidia maybe $7 billion.

You are correct. All the more reason for intel not to close down their GPU division as they are still making a lot of money.

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mrbojangles25

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#26 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 54190 Posts

AMD price increases coming in 5...4...3...2...

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kejigoto

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#27 kejigoto
Member since 2004 • 2557 Posts

@Xtasy26: You haven't paid very close attention if you think no one expected Intel to compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out gate... like to all the moronic talk that Intel is gonna ax their GPU division because the drivers were bad for the first generation of cards so there's no point in continuing down this road.

There's a reason why channels like Hardware Unboxed and Gamer's Nexus keep repeatedly telling people to temper their expectations, that this isn't something that happens overnight, there are positives here, things can be improved, and so forth while hammering the messaging home that these early gen releases are for hardware enthusiasts, not someone looking to replace their current GPU with something from a brand new competitor to the market.

Which is why it's so damn stupid to keep hearing this story trotter out that Intel might do something they 100% won't do.

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Xtasy26

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#28 Xtasy26
Member since 2008 • 5497 Posts

@kejigoto said:

@Xtasy26: You haven't paid very close attention if you think no one expected Intel to compete with AMD and NVIDIA right out gate... like to all the moronic talk that Intel is gonna ax their GPU division because the drivers were bad for the first generation of cards so there's no point in continuing down this road.

There's a reason why channels like Hardware Unboxed and Gamer's Nexus keep repeatedly telling people to temper their expectations, that this isn't something that happens overnight, there are positives here, things can be improved, and so forth while hammering the messaging home that these early gen releases are for hardware enthusiasts, not someone looking to replace their current GPU with something from a brand new competitor to the market.

Which is why it's so damn stupid to keep hearing this story trotter out that Intel might do something they 100% won't do.

Where did I say I expected them to compete. I do want them to succeed, hence I think they should continue on with their next generation and continue to focus on drivers. .