Nvidia has backed AMD to a corner and will have to sell their good cards at a much lower price to stand a chance against Nvidia in the market. No one is going pick a AMD card over the RTX 3000 series unless it provides better performance than console at low cost to stand a chance especially when Nvidia releases the 3060. I don't expect AMD to come close to Nvidia high end cards so they have to compete at the lower end to maintain a market presence. Just when AMD was doing so well in the CPU market against Intel.
@hardwenzen: Yeah even if RDNA 2 manages to perform on par or not far behind Ampere or Turing in RT performance Nvidia still has the edge with DLSS. DLSS alone is enough to motivate anyone to chose Nvidia over AMD. Nvidia is making DLSS more accessible to developers and that is going to be a huge hit towards AMD.
I don't know what AMD is going to do with their line up. It would be great if it is at least comparable. Also, there approach for ray tracing is a bit different to Nvidia. How it performs is still up for grabs.
nVidia went all in, it's kind of insane. The exact opposite of how Intel responded to AMD. The fact is, best case even if all the positive rumors are true, RDNA2 won't beat Ampere in power. They will need to dramatically undercut them in price as a result. They need to sell better products at a cheaper price and probably avoid even attempting to compete with the 3090. That thing is just... wow.
@abtoxin: AMD has competed more than decently against nvidia for the better part of 3 decades. The consoles will be using AMD tech and its rumored the gpu is on par or better than the 2080ti.
Also, AMD doesn't have to do much, nvidia cards are all hype nothing more. Its why the nvidia cards end up being $200 over msrp at retail and a ton of people flock to AMD. Nvidia sells gimmicks, junk like their ray tracing, or physx scam. At the end of the day, game developers love open source technology. Where is nvidia gsync, or physx now? In the trash bin, just like their version of raytracing will be in a few years as developers move towards open source instead.
@abtoxin: AMD has competed more than decently against nvidia for the better part of 3 decades. The consoles will be using AMD tech and its rumored the gpu is on par or better than the 2080ti.
Also, AMD doesn't have to do much, nvidia cards are all hype nothing more. Its why the nvidia cards end up being $200 over msrp at retail and a ton of people flock to AMD. Nvidia sells gimmicks, junk like their ray tracing, or physx scam. At the end of the day, game developers love open source technology. Where is nvidia gsync, or physx now? In the trash bin, just like their version of raytracing will be in a few years as developers move towards open source instead.
AMD is nowhere to be seen in the high-end market and honestly couldn't care less about the midrange market. Nvidia didn't stop pushing the technology forwards unlike Intel, they just kept rehashing their Skylake 14nm++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ to the point they went irrelevant for at least next 3 years (a best case scenario Intel can hope for). On the GPU front against NVIDIA it's like a David vs Golliath battle.
As much as I'd love to see some solid competition that could shake up the GPU market, after seeing the RTX 3000 series reveal, specs and (arguably) pricing, that seems unlikely.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
@WESTBLADE85: AMD doesn't sell at the high end because there isn't a market for them. Just like only apple sells high end tablets and nobody else gives a sht because Apple, just like nvidia sells BS. Like their scam raytracing, physx, gsync and long line of trash that ends up in the trash but the fan boys lap it up either way. How can AMD compete at the high end against snake oil salesmen, when the market just isn't that big in the first place.
AMD will be competitive in the mid range, high mid range market as usual. They will probably bring out a card on the same level as the 2080ti.
@fedor: It's pretty clear big navi RDNA 2 (real rdna 2, not what's probably in the xsx and ps5) has some potential. The reason I say so is bc Nvidia priced the 3080 at 700 dollars. The definitely know something about what AMD has.
has any of nvidias features been used by developers? Where is physx and gsync? Both are in the trash bin, just like nvidias new dsl whatever nonsense will be. Mark my words. AMD has always backed open source tech, and at the end of the day thats what always wins out.
I'm still laughing at the fools who spent $2k on gsync monitors. AMD freelance is now the standard and its like $150 on sale.
@WESTBLADE85: AMD doesn't sell at the high end because there isn't a market for them. Just like only apple sells high end tablets and nobody else gives a sht because Apple, just like nvidia sells BS. Like their scam raytracing, physx, gsync and long line of trash that ends up in the trash but the fan boys lap it up either way. How can AMD compete at the high end against snake oil salesmen, when the market just isn't that big in the first place.
AMD will be competitive in the mid range, high mid range market as usual. They will probably bring out a card on the same level as the 2080ti.
Honestly, console crowd and they delusions are terrible, but in this case I can cut them some slack, because they have emotional attachments to a closed platform with "their" company pasted on it.
But seeing a delusional fanboy of anything PC hardware related, where you are supposed to have an open mind, because it's literally a DYI platform, do some deep dive research for the parts are about to buy, so you can avoid buying a POS (when possible) and get the better deal... this is some next level shit.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
@abtoxin: AMD has competed more than decently against nvidia for the better part of 3 decades. The consoles will be using AMD tech and its rumored the gpu is on par or better than the 2080ti.
Also, AMD doesn't have to do much, nvidia cards are all hype nothing more. Its why the nvidia cards end up being $200 over msrp at retail and a ton of people flock to AMD. Nvidia sells gimmicks, junk like their ray tracing, or physx scam. At the end of the day, game developers love open source technology. Where is nvidia gsync, or physx now? In the trash bin, just like their version of raytracing will be in a few years as developers move towards open source instead.
I am a fan of AMD but this is straight-up nonsense.
I hope for the best, but AMD has their work cut out for them.
If they can do what they did with their processors--offer a great product at a reasonable price--then they will be fine.
@abtoxin: AMD has competed more than decently against nvidia for the better part of 3 decades. The consoles will be using AMD tech and its rumored the gpu is on par or better than the 2080ti.
Also, AMD doesn't have to do much, nvidia cards are all hype nothing more. Its why the nvidia cards end up being $200 over msrp at retail and a ton of people flock to AMD. Nvidia sells gimmicks, junk like their ray tracing, or physx scam. At the end of the day, game developers love open source technology. Where is nvidia gsync, or physx now? In the trash bin, just like their version of raytracing will be in a few years as developers move towards open source instead.
I am a fan of AMD but this is straight-up nonsense.
I hope for the best, but AMD has their work cut out for them.
If they can do what they did with their processors--offer a great product at a reasonable price--then they will be fine.
what did I say that was wrong? That the mid range card will be $200 over msrp? That nvidia sells gimmicky features, like the now trash bin physx, or gsync, now the new dsll whatever its called. I'm not saying they sell bad cards, just over hyped and over priced. AMD will sell the value bargain card that competes well with most of nvidias cards, minus their top top flagship.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
$499. What's not to love
key word is starting. Prices will climb up, to around $800 though, just wait lol.
AMD doesn't need to provide a better faster performance GPU. They didn't that shit with their CPU either. Stick with the plan and release quality products that are competitive and are at better prices than Nvidia. Why are gamers playing with AMD CPUs when Intel CPUs are actually faster for gaming? Because AMDs CPU has better value. That's all they have to do. Best bang for your buck.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
$499. What's not to love
key word is starting. Prices will climb up, to around $800 though, just wait lol.
Luckily I am already planning to buy a console first. I don't game much on PC anyway other than playing EU IV I can wait till price drops more.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
$499. What's not to love
key word is starting. Prices will climb up, to around $800 though, just wait lol.
I mean the biggest market is the low-mid range cards, where amd can still compete with pricing, that only means their profits per sold card are less than that of nvidia's. Like we dial back to vega 64 which had more expensive memory, bigger die, thus being more expensive to manufacture than the gtx 1080 and amd had to sell it for cheaper than 1080. This is obviously of no interest to consumer, but it also points out why nvidia makes more money and has more money to blow on r&d
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
$499. What's not to love
Is that supposed to be a good thing? The 1070 launched at $380 just 4 years ago and stayed more powerful than even the Xbox One X when it dropped. NVIDIA's had no real competition since hence the horribly inflated prices, and it seems since AMD's nowhere to be seen the gouging will continue.
@sakaixx: lol...calm down. The 2070 is also more powerful than the 1080ti. The 1070 is more powerful than the 980ti. You can keep going down the list, nothing new with nvidia.
$499. What's not to love
Is that supposed to be a good thing? The 1070 launched at $380 just 4 years ago and stayed more powerful than even the Xbox One X when it dropped. NVIDIA's had no real competition since hence the horribly inflated prices, and it seems since AMD's nowhere to be seen the gouging will continue.
Well, 2080 ti right now priced at around $1400-$1700. Next gen consoles maybe around $400 - $600. 3070 start price is $499 and possibly more powerful than both 2080ti and the consoles. I only see this card as a win win for everyone. Still getting the PS5 first.
@blaznwiipspman1: you said ray tracing was a gimmick when the next consoles and AMDs next GPUs will have it. Gsync is very much alive and many monitors are available. You’ll be able to get the 3070 for the msrp price. Also the 2070 wasn’t faster than the 1080ti. It was slower. The 2080 was on par with the 1080ti.
@sirk1264: ray tracing is a gimmick so far, and its been done on the ps3, back in 2007. Nothing new, just the machines are able to handle it better now. Also, the version nvidia is using for Ray tracing technology will be obsolete. Developers always go with open source, just ask physx what happened to it. Gsync is pretty much dead, with AMD freesync absolutely demolishing it. You definitely won't be able to get it at msrp, even nvidia in their own ad put starting at $499. Which really means $800. The 2070 Super is faster than the 1080ti though. The 3070 is a great card at a horrendous price. I will be buying whatever AMD puts out again as I dont buy nvidia useless gimmicks, haven't been doing it for the last 20 years either. The only nvidia card I purchased was the GeForce 460 gtx back in the day and this will continue to be the case as long as they continue to rip people off.
@blaznwiipspman1: mate - I just upgraded from a Vega 64 to a 2070 Super. Let me tell you - it's night and day. The 2070 Super is leagues better.
1) substantially faster
2) less power draw
3) substantially cooler
4) substantially quieter
Meanwhile, DLSS (dsl? Get real dude) is a gamechanger - it allows the same GPU to punch way above its weight. I literally double frames or resolution on the same card. You should damn well hope AMD implements DLSS as well, because the obvious implication is that any game that supports it could run comparably to AMD on roughly half the "caliber" Nvidia gpu. And again - I've seen it in action now and can compare firsthand. It's not a gimmick.
Oh - and why did I upgrade? Well my f*cking drivers kept crashing on the Vega. And freesync didn't work reliably across all my games.
You know what has immediately change? Both of those things.
@blaznwiipspman1: mate - I just upgraded from a Vega 64 to a 2070 Super. Let me tell you - it's night and day. The 2070 Super is leagues better.
1) substantially faster
2) less power draw
3) substantially cooler
4) substantially quieter
Meanwhile, DLSS (dsl? Get real dude) is a gamechanger - it allows the same GPU to punch way above its weight. I literally double frames or resolution on the same card. You should damn well hope AMD implements DLSS as well, because the obvious implication is that any game that supports it could run comparably to AMD on roughly half the "caliber" Nvidia gpu. And again - I've seen it in action now and can compare firsthand. It's not a gimmick.
Oh - and why did I upgrade? Well my f*cking drivers kept crashing on the Vega. And freesync didn't work reliably across all my games.
You know what has immediately change? Both of those things.
Freesync sucks, one reason I lets some other schmuck have the radeon. Even when it is working, I still felt lag, perhaps my monitor was a bust, got rid of that pos too, flickered like mad.
We know for fact that $500 will not be the price,sure as hell will be $550 the cheapest when it hit retailers it has been happening for a long time,were you see a suggested retail price and is almost never fallow by the industry they just go higher,then come the variations that will surely go for over $600.
@blaznwiipspman1: you don’t even know what you are talking about. Nvidia uses Microsoft DXR for ray tracing which is part of DX12 and which AMD will be using as well. Plus you specifically said 2070 not 2070 super. Don’t change the subject. DLSS is a major game changer and shows better image quality now than TAA at native res. You only need to watch digital foundry videos that go in depth with DLSS 2.0.
@tormentos: you’ll be able to get it directly on nvidia’s site for 500. Best Buy will also sell founders edition cards for MSRP as well. So yes you can get it for 500. If you want an overclocked version from AIB’s, then of course you’ll be paying a little more.
X-Series X and PS5 shoulda waited for this card and launched with it. I dunno why they both went AMD those cards are crap compared to Nvidia's.
AMD isn't competitive with NVIDIA at all i invested in NVIDIA years ago cuz they were unstoppable and now my stock 400% EAT THT SYSTEM WARRIORS.
IM BACKING NVIDIA HARD right now.
nope because next gen would not be out until 1 to 2 years from now because they have to mass produce for the public and both next gen machines. the ps5 or the series x would launch at 1000.
We know for fact that $500 will not be the price,sure as hell will be $550 the cheapest when it hit retailers it has been happening for a long time,were you see a suggested retail price and is almost never fallow by the industry they just go higher,then come the variations that will surely go for over $600.
If its still can go around $600 its still worth it if what Nvidia says about performance is true. PS5 first then this baby coming after.
yeah. its going to be a tough fight. the 2000 series was a bit disappointing (first gen new tech generally is) but this looks like a proper monster.
when measuring up which to buy i usually put a bit of extra weight on the AMD side because of open source drivers and rooting for the underdog (though the latter may be shifted to intel whe i am looking at a GPU purchase again...poor intel). but everything still gets investigated.
But the RTX 3000 series has really given a great first impression. the 3090 is obscene and stupid for gaming (but i wants it!!). but the 3080 and 3070 look to be great packages. a lot of weight has been added to the 3080 side of the scales.
As for AMD it will be tough. RDNA 1 was a big step in the right direction.....huge improvement over the vega 64 in terms of efficiency. performs better, costs less to make, generates less heat, uses less power and there is no downside for gaming compared to V64. it was just uarch wins compared to where they were. the drivers really let it down but it was doing quite well at launch (this cant happen again for RDNA 2).
so how much more of a leap will they have made for RDNA2? will it scale well past 40CUs? how is the RTX performance? can they implement something like DLSS using the CUs rather than something like a tensor core? do they have something like a tensor core (everything at the moment points to no)? what is their answer for RTXIO (i mean..they have worked with MS on this for the XSX....the should have something in RDNA2 on the PC surely)?
the 3090 is not really a concern (though i would like to see them take a crack at it. 16GB of vram and everything RDNA2 can muster for 999....try to pull the rug from under it.) but taking the wind out of the 3080s and 3070s sails.....thats going to be very hard.
Log in to comment