All this crap about 'untapped power'

wtf is this all about? how can 'power' be 'untapped'... the ps3 has been out 2 years now, yet the devs still cant find this untapped power? can someone enlighten me?jarediswicked92

Perhaps it needs to get it's ass kicked around hard enough by the 360 in order to explode in a golden aura of awesomeness?

There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). ceruxx

Yeah in that case many games didn't even use all the processors available.

PS3= Gohan... it's simple.

wtf is this all about? how can 'power' be 'untapped'... the ps3 has been out 2 years now, yet the devs still cant find this untapped power? can someone enlighten me?jarediswicked92

FACT: all consoles see some improvements in graphics over time due to developers finding more efficiencies. However, when new hardware like the cell is released, and developers don't have time to learn it properly thanks to SOny's poor planning and delays in production and getting dev kits out...then developers start behind the curve in learning the hardware to begin with.

On the other hand, hardware like the 360 is familiar to developers from day 1 because it is more like how they developed in the past or for PC. Sony requires learning a whole new way of doing things. Therefore, developers for the PS3 are not even able, at the start, to make games for the hardware the way they are SUPPOSED to be. Instead they make shortcuts, shoddy ports, replicate data throughout the discs, etc. This isn't news. Developers have been complianing for a while all the issues they have with SOny's hardware and the current problems they have with it.

It will take longer for devs to even learn to use the hardware properly. And while developer try to learn the proper starting point, games on the 360 have already started and running down the track. THIS is where the whole "hidden potential" thing comes from. It is only NOW that we are starting to see what should have been the titles Sony promised at launch. Why? Because only now are developers coming forward saying they are finally figuring out the hardware. NOW we can start seeing what the PS3 is truly capable of, and then the maximization and further efficencies will come after that.

Sure, lemmings think this is stupid. But what I find stupid is when people hear all the issues developers are having with the hardware, and yet they still think the PS3 is maxed out right out of the box. And then when developers say otherwise, lemmings ignore it or they accuse them of being Sony shills talking about "teh untapped powah!"

There is no "untapped power" in the literal sense like a processor that's going unused or something. Just more room for improving code.TOAO_Cyrus1

Developers have admitted that with the PS3, they haven't been using all the available spu's (or whatever they are called) for their games. Therefore, one courld argue a type of processor is going unused with the PS3.

PS3= Gohan... it's simple.

sargentbotk

:shock:

Wait... Wait. Wait! WAIT-A-MINUTE!!!!

So Cell is inside Gohan? :?

O. M. G.

There will always be a better way too code something.. As devs gainm more experiance they will learn more and more ways too make a code as efficent as possible..

Thus the graphics of all consoles improves when the generations moves on.. Even when we enter the next gen there will still be untapped power

Its not crap, its a fact. Learn too see through ignorance.

Why people uses the terms untapped power about the PS3 is that its architecture is very different, thus making devs less good at coding for it. This means it has more untapped potential. But since the Cell isnt becoming standard in the industry people less people will focus on this then on a more common architecture. Bottom line is that the PS3 has more untapped potential then more traditional consoles and it will also have more untapped potential left when this gen ends. Why fanboys expect devs too become as skilled with the cell as with other processors is beyond me, less total resources means less total progress.

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). TOAO_Cyrus1

Yeah in that case many games didn't even use all the processors available.

The problem is that, like the saturn, its difficult to tap into all that power. Yet with the saturn, it was next to impossible. With the Cell it is looking very possible. They're already using 30-40% right?

It's untapped... so who knows how much untapped power a system has.

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). ceruxx

Yeah in that case many games didn't even use all the processors available.

The problem is that, like the saturn, its difficult to tap into all that power. Yet with the saturn, it was next to impossible. With the Cell it is looking very possible. They're already using 30-40% right?

I think allot of the Cell gets wasted because its designed to do the stuff the GPU already does better.

[QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

PS3= Gohan... it's simple.

Zassimick

:shock:

Wait... Wait. Wait! WAIT-A-MINUTE!!!!

So Cell is inside Gohan? :?

O. M. G.

No no. I'm not going by Cell because he needs 2 people to make himself perfect. I'm using Gohan because everyone claimed he had ALOT of power hidden within himself, which needed to be unlocked.

Cell made that possible :)

But, that might or might not be the case this time.

They cant find it because it isnt there.Why are devs still looking after 2 years.I guess the fanboys arent the only ones fooled by Sony.xgraderx

Even if you only started gaming last gen, you should know better than this.

Look at how far the PS2 came with GOW 2, and the Xbox with 720p games towards the end of its life.

It takes MUCH more than 2 years.

Bottom line is that the PS3 has more untapped potential then more traditional consoles and it will also have more untapped potential left when this gen ends.

omgimba

Imagine the possibility's.

There is no certain way that we can know. Kojima has said that they have worked the PS3 to its full extent on some areas(and quite frankly I think that was totally bs)... other developers have said otherwise. What do I think? I think that it isn't always about the hidden power of the console, but about the developers skills with the available tools they have to work on.

GoW2 didn't have to necessarily look better than the first in a hell of a lot of areas do to a hidden power present on the PS2. The credit may have been only earned by the developers themselves... but again, we can never know. So... in a way, it's kind of pointless(then again so is many arguments do to gaming, so...).

There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). ceruxx

if this is the case, could this happen with the ps3? history does repeat itself...

oh and one more thing. i remember reading the guys at square enix saying "WE WILL FULLY UTILISE THE POWER OF THE PS3 IN FF13"

well since its coming out on the 360, does this mean the 360 is more powerful then? what that guy said has as much credibility as the next guy saying the ps3 has untapped power.

am i wrong?

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). jarediswicked92

if this is the case, could this happen with the ps3? history does repeat itself...

I doubt it... if you mean Sony pulling a Sega and going down that hard.

oh and one more thing. i remember reading the guys at square enix saying "WE WILL FULLY UTILISE THE POWER OF THE PS3 IN FF13"

well since its coming out on the 360, does this mean the 360 is more powerful then? what that guy said has as much credibility as the next guy saying the ps3 has untapped power.

am i wrong?

jarediswicked92

Either that, or they are going to downgrade the 360 version. Since the 360 development hasnt even started yet, we have no idea whether it will be an exact port or whether it will be compromised for some reason.

We'll know next year i guess.

[QUOTE="ceruxx"]There is such a thing. It happened with the Sega Saturn. Ultimately, it could handle better 3D than playstation but it was ridiculously hard to do so (it was done with a saturn ver. of shenmue though). jarediswicked92

if this is the case, could this happen with the ps3? history does repeat itself...

oh and one more thing. i remember reading the guys at square enix saying "WE WILL FULLY UTILISE THE POWER OF THE PS3 IN FF13"

well since its coming out on the 360, does this mean the 360 is more powerful then? what that guy said has as much credibility as the next guy saying the ps3 has untapped power.

am i wrong?

History very well could repeat itself. Saturn had a lot of great games though, at least in Japan, and was very successful (software sales in 1997 actually managed to exceed playstation I believe).

Basically, they're spewing **** Since when has a developer EVER been able to use the PS3 to its full potential in the beggining of a release? Certainly not with 3D systems.

Edit: I think it was between 1997 and some other year. I can't remember. The saturn console only did poorly in America, which is why they started the dreamcast so early. The dreamcast was made because of saturn's NA failure.

PS3= Gohan... it's simple.

sargentbotk

lulz

[QUOTE="omgimba"]

Bottom line is that the PS3 has more untapped potential then more traditional consoles and it will also have more untapped potential left when this gen ends.

Kez1984

Imagine the possibility's.

:lol:

That's the funniest thing i've ever seen.

The untapped potential I hear is really hard to reach.

John Carmack himself has said that the PS3 is more powerful, but its full power is hard to reach because of all the locks in the threads that you have to compute unless you want hardware failure.

He also said that the Xbox360 is less powerful, but easier to reach the full power, making it seem that it is the more powerful of the two.

The way I see it the whole PS3 is a giant bottleneck attached to a custom CPU. The argument is it will surpass 360 when Cell is fully utilised; now there is a bit of a problem with that.

Lets say you utilise PS3 enough to bring it up to 360 level; now the theory is tapping Cell will push it beyond that. The problem is bringing it up to the maximum capability means you're already fully tapping the GPU and memory, these two components are being pushed to their limits.

Now here comes Cell, it has to do more work but the GPU and Ram are already fully tapped. For Cell to do additional calculations it needs some memory to work with, something like physics or additional shaders still needs memory to store the calculations. If you decide to use Cell for physics destruction were do you get the GPU power to render the additional objects on screen? If you blow an object to pieces that is more polygons on screen, more textures, more shaders etc.

Cell cannot work on its own, all the components in a computer system have to work together to achieve the end result. The memory and GPU in the PS3 are not better off than the 360; PS3 doesn't have the resources available to do something with Cell to make all this effort worth while.

If you want to use Cell you have to make sacrifices elsewhere, for MGS4 it was sacrificing the level size to free up ram for other uses; causing more frequent loading screens.

Of course; this is just my theory, could be a load of bull right?

wtf is this all about? how can 'power' be 'untapped'... the ps3 has been out 2 years now, yet the devs still cant find this untapped power? can someone enlighten me?jarediswicked92

The short version: 360 has regular CPU and GPU with standard set of API's used for the GPU. PS3 has this, but because the GPU is inferior it relys more ont he Cell Cpu, which is far more powerful than xbox cpu. This allows developers to make custom API's (lines of code for effects) that can be rendered via software (Cell) instead of hardware accelerated (GPU). Although this allows for more graphics capabilities, its not simple to write API's for things, and thus most develoeprs jsut want to make the game, make it work on both consoles, and ship it to get the money flowing.

Thus untapped power is there and will never get used fully, unless their custom codes get shared via a developers community of some sort. Even then, it would only be exclusive games to use that, and developers would have to take extra time coding those API's and that takes more talent, aka more money.

There is no untapped power. It's all about developers attemtping to optimize the technolegy better. The whole "untapped power" came to be due to the complexity of the Cell and Sony's promises. organic_machine

Does anyone play games anymore, or do they just sit around worrying about how the games that come out 5 years from now are going to look?

[QUOTE="jarediswicked92"]wtf is this all about? how can 'power' be 'untapped'... the ps3 has been out 2 years now, yet the devs still cant find this untapped power? can someone enlighten me?Phazevariance

The short version: 360 has regular CPU and GPU with standard set of API's used for the GPU. PS3 has this, but because the GPU is inferior it relys more ont he Cell Cpu, which is far more powerful than xbox cpu. This allows developers to make custom API's (lines of code for effects) that can be rendered via software (Cell) instead of hardware accelerated (GPU). Although this allows for more graphics capabilities, its not simple to write API's for things, and thus most develoeprs jsut want to make the game, make it work on both consoles, and ship it to get the money flowing.

Thus untapped power is there and will never get used fully, unless their custom codes get shared via a developers community of some sort. Even then, it would only be exclusive games to use that, and developers would have to take extra time coding those API's and that takes more talent, aka more money.

I agree with this along with a few other post in this thread. The thing is the hardware in the PS3 is so new to the developers there haveing to learn a whole new way of developing the games. Sony is working with there in house developers to come up with better tools for all the game developers. The thing is all this is going to take time and money to get it rite.

Most PS3 multiplatform games use only 1 or 2 SPE's of the CELL.

Uncharted and MGS4 use 3 to 6 SPE's.

[QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

PS3= Gohan... it's simple.

Zassimick

:shock:

Wait... Wait. Wait! WAIT-A-MINUTE!!!!

So Cell is inside Gohan? :?

O. M. G.

lolz

yeah the hidden power does get kinda annoying, but whats worse is when people talk about the hidden power of the wii, how all devs. are just lazy and the console is much more powerful than everyones showing. Well its just that they dont have much to work with, sure youre gonna get the prettier titles such as SMG and the conduit, but thats pretty much it, they are that significantly better looking than, re4 or something

Most PS3 multiplatform games use only 1 or 2 SPE's of the CELL.

Uncharted and MGS4 use 3 to 6 SPE's.

Rikusaki

really? does mgs use 6? interesting

but i hear that Killzone 2 uses about 4 and 1/2

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]

Most PS3 multiplatform games use only 1 or 2 SPE's of the CELL.

Uncharted and MGS4 use 3 to 6 SPE's.

VendettaRed07

really? does mgs use 6? interesting

but i hear that Killzone 2 uses about 4 and 1/2

If Kojima said that they "pushed the PS3 to it's limits," then that means it should use 6 SPE's.

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"]

[QUOTE="jarediswicked92"]wtf is this all about? how can 'power' be 'untapped'... the ps3 has been out 2 years now, yet the devs still cant find this untapped power? can someone enlighten me?jimm895

The short version: 360 has regular CPU and GPU with standard set of API's used for the GPU. PS3 has this, but because the GPU is inferior it relys more ont he Cell Cpu, which is far more powerful than xbox cpu. This allows developers to make custom API's (lines of code for effects) that can be rendered via software (Cell) instead of hardware accelerated (GPU). Although this allows for more graphics capabilities, its not simple to write API's for things, and thus most develoeprs jsut want to make the game, make it work on both consoles, and ship it to get the money flowing.

Thus untapped power is there and will never get used fully, unless their custom codes get shared via a developers community of some sort. Even then, it would only be exclusive games to use that, and developers would have to take extra time coding those API's and that takes more talent, aka more money.

I agree with this along with a few other post in this thread. The thing is the hardware in the PS3 is so new to the developers there haveing to learn a whole new way of developing the games. Sony is working with there in house developers to come up with better tools for all the game developers. The thing is all this is going to take time and money to get it rite.

What I forgot to add was that when developers don't make their own software rendered API's the 360's GPU can output better quality, and the extra time on developement for PS3 games are to have that extra quality run through the CELL so it can still look equal to the 360... thus the 360 is the more efficient system, and the ps3 has more potential, and games will always look identical on both systems due to not adding the time needed. That and cross platform makes more money, so why do that extra work for no extra cash in the end?