A Compelling Case For Nintendo To Go Third Party (Long Read)

@nintendoboy16

Listening to any gamer is bad for business, as far as I'm concerned we're all morons and Companies shouldn't bother. They'l be alot better off in the end.

GBA games on a glorious large controller screen. And then there's off screen play. And don't say Vita because that's a $200 peripheral.

Also, The Wonderful 101 would have to be re-worked without the Wii U pad. There are moments were you have to look at the controller to proceed.

But the GBA games don't need the Wii U Pad is what I am saying. Yes, it plays them, and yes, I agree with you, the Wii U VC is the best way to play GBA games, no two ways about it. But the Wii U Pad could cease to exist and be erased from history tomorrow, and those GBA games would still exist and be playable on the Wii U VC.

The Vita has its own separate issues that I'll deal with some time later.

Good thing this is not just something forum goers tell them, then.

Not enough of those people I imagine.

I know that stuff is not necessary, but you have to consider the Nintendo fans. A lot of them would be hesitant to support Sony or Microsoft, so sales would be bound to suffer.

It would just be a lot of trouble, and despite low sales of their hardware, I do believe they make money more often than they lose it and hardware sales would have to be a factor. It seems hard to believe they'd make more money by just selling software.

And then there's the risk of these companies going south and leaving Nintendo without a platform for their games. If anything, PC would be the only viable platform if they could cut out pirating somehow.

I already do mention the best case course is for Nintendo to support the PC. If they do decide to support the PS4 and Xbox One at all, it should be as a transitional phase while they shore up their finances and development for the inevitable exodus to PC gaming that isn't too far out in the future.

Piracy on PC isn't that big an issue- look at Blizzard's games, for example, they are very hard to pirate. Those who pirate Nintendo's stuff on PC are the ones who play it right now on Dolphin with illegal ISOs anyway (this is not taking a jab at those people who play it on Dolphin legally).

Nintendo fans are ultimately fans of the company's culture and their games- things that can stay intact even if Nintendo do decide to transition to third party. As long as Nintendo maintains its standard of development quality, wherever they go, the fans will follow.

You may be right, but I just don't see them doing that. Who knows? I could be wrong. Honestly, I wish all my favorite games were on one unified system like PC, but *sigh*, that isn't the case. Maybe one day.

We're getting there. Slowly. The demand for dedicated hardware, for good or for bad, is slowly dying out, and a case will be harder and harder to make for it soon enough.

Nintendo just needs to sop chasing the gimmicks, and make a serious game console. I would hate to see Nintendo go third party. They would just become another Sega.

In a World where consoles are going away (changing into services) I would like to see Nintendo leave as the last one. The Wii U catch alot of flak form alot of people WHO in reality want a pc (that is what the PS4 and X1 is essensially, same genres that has always been dominating the pc platform, same functionality) but reality is that the Wii U is the only console I can look at and claim is a console, without half laughing when I say it.

Consoles as they are now are getting obsolete yes, but what a wonderful exit of that form factor to have Nintendo be the last one out. The symbolic value would be awesome :D

Fanboyism, and dissapointment for what consoles have become aside, I think Nintendo would benefit with holding out in the console hardware a bit longer, Sony and MS will be quick to jump to a streaming service, alot of people would not feel as safe or like the notion, so Nintendo if releasing a few more consoles stubbornly, might get a fairly big adoption rate.

But in the end you are right TC, I think what we might see (and this is no joke). Is a third party Hardware solution (steambox being the obvious example here). With MS Sony and Nintendo all having a service on. If not TVs solve thier relatively lackluster hardware.

My guess as how the Nintendo "console" (and sony and ms consoles aswell) will look in a few gens, would likely be a pack with a controller (or more). with the basic program and password to set up an account (and a few digital games bundles) that you simply install like you would a game in prior generations (yup I really do think that they will still sell us controllers even when they no longer sell the console, mostly due to the games likely made for something Akin to that, aswell as giving a resemblence of differnece between them).

I am not sure as it would qualify as third party exactly though, but some odd gray area.

I think it's stupid. Nintendo is the only company keeping traditional console gaming alive.

What Nintendo needs is a powerful marketing department that actually takes third party's seriously.

Nintendo's "incredibly well-managed"? What in God's name gives you this impression? Three years of consecutive losses that amount to near a billion dollars lost? If they are so well managed, why would they need to go third party at all? MS and Sony are doing fine, Nintendo isn't. That a difference in managerial competence, which Nintendo sorely lacks at present in various areas of its business. With the heads in charge now, I don't think Nintendo could be successful selling lemonade. Their management is an utter joke.

LOL what have you been smoking?

You're looking at a microcosmic picture, I am looking at the bigger picture. Nintendo is good with its spending of money, that is what I mean by 'well managed.' They wouldn't go bankrupt and then be bought out by some other entity, as happened with Atari and Sega (and which caused them and their games to go into the shitter). Please pay attention to the context of the post.

No Nintendo shouldn't. And making games for someone else means adjusting games for that entity. Not creating your own vision. Plus I'd imagine many of the creative teams would probably just retire. Which further erodes the games. I'm actually surprised a Nintendo fan would want that to happen.

SEGA hasn't been the same since going the route. Don't wish it on Nintendo.

So which one of these am I?

I address all these points in the OP.

Fair enough.

I just know where this industry is headed, and want Nintendo to be progressive and take the jump for a change, instead of being dragged screaming and kicking.

i think you are underestimating just how difficult it would be for nintendos developers to make the move. if you have a link to show otherwise then do please provide but i have never seen a nintendo demo running on a PC at a gameshow. i have for other platform holders (because it makes sense for them to have a PC build now) but i have yet to see it for a nintendo game. i have only seen dev kits. the games are built on PC of course but i would be very surprised if they have any render code for PC in their engines. the PC is a moving target. nintendo have never developed for a moving target (well ok there was mario teaches typing back in the 90s :P). they struggeled (and continue to struggle. no AA in MK8 for example) with the upgrades from the wii to the wiiu. it would take a monumental effort to get up to speed on the PC, PS4 and X1 in such a short space of time.

on the point of nintendos games being incredible on PS4...yea they would be. as incredible as they are on the wiiu. do you think nintendo would be prepared to put in the extra expense necessary to get the best out of the PC, PS4 and X1? again...not a 80million dollar per game operation (killzone 2 had a budget of 40 million and costs double from one gen to the next roughly). its all to easy to say "ah sure it has loads of cores and a big beefy GPU...the games should look loads better" but it costs money to get those resources working. a lot of money. money, i would argue, nintendo is not prepared to spend even on their top tier titles. what you call handicapping nintendo call controlling costs. an advantage to making their own console. failing to max out an X1 or PS4 is unacceptable (going by the amounf of flack devs are taking at the moment from that sector of the market).

on the storefront. if they can be like GOG then great but i just dont see nintendo being like that. the DRM would be brutal (as in tying the purchases to your PC type brutal....thats what they are currently doing on their devices). modding would be strictly forbidden (as in your account gets locked for even using mods, never mind trying to mod yourself). nintendo are also rubbish at serivces and, more importantly, community building. thats what GOG and steam are and they are very good at it. nintendo have no idea about services...they are a gaming platform company and they dont have the experience to be an effective services company. MS and sony can do it because they have been doing it long before the PS1 and first xbox were a twinkle in those companies eyes.

from nintendos standpoint it comes down to this. if i go 3rd party and i hit gold like i did with the wii then all i will do is sell other peoples hardware, promote their services and improve their platform. why when i have my own? once a company leaves the console market it is very very difficult to get back in.

nintendo just need to get focused on what it is they actually want to do. if they want 3rd party support then they need to provide the console and infrastructure to entice them. if they dont want 3rd party support then they need to expand their development capacity themselves...buy more studios, fund more projects etc. they need to give a persuasive argument as to why people who are buying a second gaming platform should choose the nintendo one as well as giving a good argument as to why people should buy one at all. the best way to do that is by building one hell of an exclusive library with a more diverse selection of games (and in fairness the wiiu and 3ds have a pretty diverse selection.

nintendo themselves know they have made an almighty mess and a deadfully bad call with the wiiu (and the 3DS. its doing OK but nintendo made bad calls on that also). its a complete missfire. the gamepad is not a seller. the price was all wrong and the content does not justify the gamepads existance. i absolutely agree that there is not one single game yet on the wiiu that actually make good use of the gamepad. i do think it has a lot of potential (watchdogs would have been a better game as a wiiu exclusive i would argue and something like elite dangerous would make great use of a second screen. hell im mostly a PC gamer and would be very tempted with a wiiu version of elite over the PC version if the gamepad was well integrated) but the types of games nintendo makes dont need a second screen. it just makes the decisions around the wiiu very odd.

but its not enough of a reason to get out of the console market from nintendos standpoint. its damage control this gen and try something new again for the next. wouldnt be the first time and it wont be the last time this happens.

if nintendo do this gen what sony did last gen (short up first party strength and just limit the damage) then it wont be so bad. they need a lot more developers and they just need to limit the damage now (no price cuts for a while...no point). they need to get themselves into a position where they can better support both of their platforms next gen.

i think they also need to keep a closer ear to the ground in terms of games devs would like to make but cant. bayonetta 2 is one example but they need to keep ears to the ground the world over. focus on areas where nintendo currently dont do much (and on games that could make very nice use of the second screen, like elite dangerous). make a platform that doesnt cost the earth, moon and stars to make games on and be prepared to put a few million into these types of games. they wont be chart topping mega billion bucks games (though who knows...anyone see minecraft coming? or demon souls?) but they could scratch a few itches for many gamers which, in turn, does nicely for nintendos name. find 100 niches yet to be filled instead of just going for the one hit, get them on the nintendo platform exclusively and things could look a lot better.

3rd party support will not save Nintendo's consoles because they been distanced from it for so long people will just keep flocking to PS and Xbox when it comes to it.

Nintendo as a console manufacturer will never enjoy success again unless they go the Wii way again. I mean, the N64 was a failure, the GC was a failure, the Wii wasn't a failure because Nintendo duped the mass market, Wii U went back to being a failure. And even then the reason Nintendo came up with the Wii U was because they wanted to recapture the core because even though the Wii had over 100 million sales its software sales were abysmal. And this was said by both, Miyamoto and Iwata themselves.

Wii's software sales were amazing, it sold more than 900 million units of software. The only other systems in history that moved more software were the PS2 and DS.

Miyamoto and Iwata wanted sustained software sales, as the Wii's began to die out by 2010.

Lol, no, just no.

One thin I don't think will happen is Nintendo going third party willingly. I can think of two scenarios where Nintendo or its IP will go third party

1. Bankruptcy- Nintendo may be in better shape than Sony or Microsoft when it comes to debt. However, it is also dealing with a shrinking market on both fronts and it is posting losses for the past three years (since the 3DS launched). When bankruptcy happens, or the threat of it looms, either IP gets auctioned off or...

2. Buyout or merger- Even when Nintendo is posting losses for the past three years, it's IP is still considered valuable enough to be worth acquiring. When a company is looking into video gaming, someone like Google. Samsung, Apple or Valve would be looking into acquiring Nintendo.

Please charizard, I ask you, what makes YOU knowledgeable about how Nintendo should market their games, what franchises they should reboot, what consoles they should sell them on and how they should sell them?

When you contribute to a gaming company's successes in even the slightest way, earning yourself even the tiniest amount of credibility in the gaming world, I might listen to you, but for now...DID NOT READ.....I'm gonna go play some games on my Wii U and have fun with it while you sit on the computer arguing with randoms....

Please charizard, I ask you, what makes YOU knowledgeable about how Nintendo should market their games, what franchises they should reboot, what consoles they should sell them on and how they should sell them?

Just had to quote this real quick. You saying there is "no appeal outside of Nintendo's own games" is not true. That is YOUR opinion. The Wii U feels good in my hands, are you truly going to argue that with me? Seriously you are truly pathetic and can hardly call yourself a gamer.

@mariokart97: Good for you, however, your enjoyment is irrelevant to the state of Nintendo and it's future growth for investment.

This is idiot logic and you know it.

I remember stating something just like this before and getting flamed like crazy for it.

Really a 3rd party Nintendo would be godly, no longer having to worry about hardware restrictions, just making damn good games.

I hope they never go third party. if anything they should focus completely on handhelds. they're the only console maker that is doing their own thing. MS and Sony are doing their best to make shitty PCs.

I'd be intrigued to see what would happen if Nintendo just focused on one piece of hardware as opposed to two. Maybe not having to try and balance between two systems, and just being able to put all of their focus, developing, marketing, etc. on one single system would be beneficial?

Although I do like the idea of Nintendo having their own client on PC.

Them going third party means we don't have to worry about them doing their own shitty thing. Their own thing is shitty, it has never been good, it has always been atrocious.

If they go third party we get glorious Mario, Metroid, and the like on hardware that doesn't suck, Nintendo's highly talented roster of studios working on hardware and interfaces that are worth using.

I think Nintendo will keep making consoles. Although they're so resistant to change and being progressive to the gaming industry as of lately, I have a hard time believing they will go the third party developer route, especially after what they witnessed Sega's downfall. I think their closed-mindedness to online gameplay and underpowered hardware really has screwed them over this gen, they need to restructure their brand messaging as well.

Perchance, was I one of the people who flamed you? :p

it would be awesome. Yea i havent enjoyed the nintendo consoles since the gc but i wouldnt mind playing fire emblem and pokemon on my ps4/ xb1 =)

edit: but i think there is still a place for them to compete with handheld/mobile platforms

Nintendo (home) consoles don't sell. The days of the NES and SNES are long gone. The Wii was a fluke that will never repeat itself. The Wii U will sell less than the Gamecube (as it should, it's a piece of crap), just like the Gamecube sold less than the N64.

Is going third-party the solution? Maybe. I would definitely buy Fire Emblem or Zelda for one of my other consoles. I don't want them to end up like SEGA, though, so it must be done properly...

I think you may have, lol.

As a consumer I would dislike seeing hardware innovation disappear on a console level. As someone who appreciates games I would dislike seeing Sony and MS tearing Nintendo to bits. I wrote this before reading your post and agree with a lot of things you say. I would rather see them develop solely for PC without being submitted to Sony and MS policies and shady deals. They could create controllers for the PC and make PC games that you can play with those controllers. Maybe they can collaborate with Valve and be the standard Steam controller.

It is true that consoles are disappearing. And it would be smart to be prepared for it and act before it's too late. The Nintendo consoles have the opportunity to outlast the Sony and MS gaming consoles, that doesn't make it wise to wait till that time comes, if ever. I half expected consoles to tank this generation. Now I more than half expect them to tank the next generation. I don't really know when they should do something, and whether they (and everyone else) should give up on the idea of a console. That's a big call.

Please God, NO! Nintendo haven't made a decent controller since the Gamecube. Worst case scenario we'd end up with another GamePad. Please, just no. Stay the heck away from my Steam.

The Wii and Wii U controllers are comfy and work well for me. I don't like having to keep my hands close together like a prisoner. I suppose we disagree.

Dude, Mario and Zelda games already look amazing on the Wii U. Nintendo games have never been about or needed powerful hardware. Going 3rd party and releasing shit on multiple platforms would probably hurt them more than help. Look at the garbage Sega is releasing now a days even though they have a few great franchises. Nintendo going third party means all we get is yearly mario party and shitty new super mario bros because thats all thats going to sell. At least now with their own hardware they're forced to try weird and crazy shit because they need to attract people.

Have you heard of this excellent controller called the Wii U Pad? It's amazing, you should look into it.

@KungfuKitten, I do agree with the gist of what you say. I don't expect the decline of consoles to be apparent immediately, but I think that the cumulative install base of consoles this generation shall be lower than what it was last generation, and most likely, lower than even the generation before that.

The Wii U GamePad? Yes, I just mentioned it. It's at the top of my "worst controller ever made" list, so I guess in a sense you can say it's a winner.

Apologies, I meant to say Wii U Pro.

This is what I am talking about:

Ah yes, I've used that one quite a bit. The D-pad is good. Everything else... is not.

Is this before or after Microsoft pulls out?

Everyone pulls out. Hopefully Nintendo is the first.

By the time streaming would be viable, the cost for hardware to play the same games would be so cheap it may even be built into tv's.

When will internet be good enough that games will feel as responsive as they do with dedicated hardware?

I don't particularly care for Nintendo or their franchises. I wouldn't get a Wii U for Nintendo games, I'd get it for that new Xenoblade game or Fatal Frame, although to be fair, I'm not that interested in those either. But if I did get it, only then would I get a Nintendo game, and even then, I'd never get MK or SSB or Pokemon. I'd likely try Zelda and Metroid mostly.

In a sense, I wouldn't care if Nintendo went 3rd party. I'd be more likely to get one of their games though, that's for sure. I buy random stuff as it is. Would it be good for Nintendo themselves? I have no idea. I do feel like designing and launching a console takes away resources one could be putting towards creating a game. I thought for sure MS and Sony would have plenty of next-gen games ready what with the Xbone and PS4 taking so long to come out. Instead, it really feels like they poured money into the new consoles, and are waiting for those to sell before really getting into making games. If this is the same with Nintendo, then does that mean we'd get more games more often if they went 3rd party? Again, I wouldn't care too much, but would Ninty fans prefer that? It does seem like stuff has been slow for the Wii U too.

I also feel like for Nintendo to recover, they'd have to release a new console way sooner than a PS5 or Xbone 2 would arrive. Who knows how this will affect them. Will people flock to the new console with new features? OR would they wait with their PS4s and Xbones as they know those will get new additions as some point. If Ninty got 3rd party support, they'd just get multiplats really. Ninty would have to rely on its 1st party again, which it always has, but would it be as slow as it has been with the Wii U? That just brings the PS5 and Xbone2 back into contention.

Ninty also seem to want to make a profit with each console sold, so generally speaking, Sony and MS will always have an advantage, risking loss for hardware advantage. Even worse if they release a new console way earlier.

I'd say....dabble first. Port something to the PC (I'd say new Zelda, but I'm sure they want that to sell systems). Put one or two games out there, but keep all available to Wii U. See how well that sells.

The handheld market seems solid though, for them.

Sega sucks though, and they kind of always did if we're talking about them making trash like Sonic and Shenmue. Otherwise Binary Domain and Valkryia Chronicles are dope.

"forced to try weird and crazy shit"....they've made new IP on consoles for this gen that looks mildly interesting in Splatoon, and then one new ip for their handhelds (which admittedly looks like the bees kness) in Project STEAM. They aint fucking trying, they been never trying.