Michael Wilbon and others on Sean Taylor (edited for content. Sorry, Mods)

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WhoShotMe

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#1 WhoShotMe
Member since 2002 • 5202 Posts

Buncha losers, some people.

This entire week, I have been reading all kinds of articles and hearing all kinds of commentary about Sean Taylor pre-shooting. In the midst of it, I have come to a few conclusions.

  • People don't do research
  • When a black person debases black men at large, it must be true
  • When talking about us black men, statements about us are based largely on stereotypes
  • People should go to hell. I hope they do.

Now first, let me state that my anger at this whole debacle isn't even wholly about Sean Taylor; it's the fact that people have equated this to being wealthy, Black, and from some notorious "hood". Sean Taylor dies, right? Very little mourning for him. Not even on this board. People in here talkin' bout "oh I'm not surprised", "based on his past, I saw it coming", or some other nonsense. Because obviously, the people who made these comments new Taylor personally and grew up with and around him.

You will never cease to find some idiot rambling about a gun charge, the same of which Taylor had been PROVEN innocent of. See bullet one. That's not even the half of it. After that, you'll find that people will be quick to equate living a harsh childhood/adolescence to not being able to lose the "thug" mentality that the majority think all of us Black people have.

Michael Wilbon wrote an article in the Washington Post following Taylor's death.

His rant falls in line with bullet one and two...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/27/AR2007112702680.html

...because IMMEDIATELY after, no shortage of writers nationwide came up and proposed the same nonsense about Taylor's past, gun charge (acquittal), and being from a rough neighborhood and being unable to leave that nonsense behind.

Do not pay any attention to the fact that the rest of the thousands of us from the 'hood are still alive and well. Jay-Z, the wealthiest rapper of all time, is from the Marcy Projects in Brooklyn, and is still breathing. Ain't been shot (at), ain't shot anyone, and he's a RAPPER.

Carmello Anthony is a fellow Brooklander, sporting cornrows in the NBA, the biggest rap/hip-hop hating entity on the non-athletic side of Bill O'Rielly, and he is still sucking down oxygen as we speak. (Also, before some fool mentions it, there is no proof that Biggie or Tupac were killed by inner-city violence relating to hip hop, as Wilbon would like to insinuate.)

Hell, I am from Washington, D.C. I've done my dirt, been in my fights, and got jumped once. I never shot anyone. Yeah, I carried a knife at times, but I've never stabbed, or maimed anyone. I'm now alive in Japan with a beautiful fiancee, and am enlisted in the United States Air Force. As a matter of fact, all of my friends who did carry weapons (projectiles or blades), are all in college as we speak. But it doesn't matter, right? Because despite the fact that we move on, get a PhD or other degree, we will ultimately be gunned down in our own homes because of what we did years prior.

Even though we left that life behind. Hell, next December, when I find myself back in Iraq, and my head perhaps become a bullet or mortar sponge, it's my fault. Right? Whenever one of us dies in a gunfight, it's because we were in the 'hood, and as such, apparently had it coming. Whenever one of us, regardless of occupation or education, is hanging out with at least 2 other black men, our "boys", as Mikey says, it's a gang. We're up to no good. Just ask Wilbon. He knows. See bullet three.

And whats so sickening about this is the fact that these lies are spread with absolutely NO consideration for those who have lost family members, in this case, the 18mo old girl who just lost her father. Rather disheartening for a society in which people belive that fathers are not around. What is supposed to happen when those of us who have some sort of pull in the media do not even support us? Yeah, Oprah, Bill, Wilbon; I'm talking to you all.

The obituary in the Washington post for Sean Taylor was so scathing, that it, coupled with the pompous, arrogant article from another Cosbyite (Bill Cosby can go get bent too. At least I graduated high school, senile fool.) made me unable to take my dinner for the night, and I like Sukiya. An obituary is intended to summarize a life in a few well worded sentences. Referring to his life as "troubled" is not accurate. These incidents are merely 4 or 5 bad decisions made in a lifetime of a million good ones. These writers have attempted to take take away from the tragic nature of this incident, the loss of a human life, and minimized it to the result of a (at best) rumored life****of which they are too afraid to research and discover, therefore know nothing about, and THUS are not QUALIFIED to speculate about. One Pacman Jones and one Michael Vick out of 60+ years of an (integrated) professional sports league, in wake of the most powerful and influential subcultures in history are not enough to paint black men, especially black athletes, in such a broad stroke.

I am fully appraised of what a columnists boundaries and obligations are. I am also similarly informed on what human decency and respect for the critically wounded and not-buried are. Wilbon's willful disrespect of Sean Taylor, Taylor's family and his audience in the wake of this brutal slaying is one of the most egregious, cynical and pathetic spectacles I have ever witnessed, personally or professionally. And this guy couldn't even WAIT until Taylor was buried to spew his venom. A young man of 24 is dead, shot down while trying to protect his child, his girlfriend and his home. There is NO defense for Wilbon's -- nor anyone else's -- nonchalance with that being the case. Son, father, brother is gone, forever. Even if Sean Taylor was really guilty of everything he had been accused of, brandishing guns on people that steal his four-wheelers, and beating up people in altercations, the timing of these absolutely vicious and callous articles is uncalled for.

These are some of the most personally offensive pieces of prose I have ever come upon -- I can't believe Mike Wilbon could not even wait for Sean Taylor to be buried to make the comments he made, callously, both in this article and in his Monday chat about a young man gunned down in his own home at the age of 24 while trying to protect his property (which is his legal and especially MORAL right) and more importantly, the mother of his not-even-year-old daughter, and said infant.

...You know, things that MEN are OBLIGATED to do.

However, these are not the things that we are hearing. Not in the way that they should be said, at least. What we hear from these fools that the man was a crazy thug who brandished guns on people to get his things back. Get your facts straight, people. In fact, he was a very good kid. Polite to all, loving towards his family and generous with his money to his community. I am appalled at what Wilbon has said and written in the wake of Taylor's brutal murder, a killing which took place in his own home -- not at a club, or a brothel, or any other such place. For the love of God, he was trying to protect his baby.

I am just deeply saddened for Taylor's family to the point of a fever. That they have had to endure this type of 'commentary' BEFORE SEAN EVEN PASSED and now that he has yet to be buried is one of the cruelest, most tortuous things I can think of. Forget about Sean the son, Sean the dad, Sean the man -- let's just talk about "Thug Sean."

I will never, ever watch PTI again, not even to watch Tony. This is it. Wilbon had a chance to apologize for his insensitive remarks made Monday, and not only did he not do that, he wrote a defiant column complete with "how dare you's" to try to cover his tracks.

I feel ashamed that I ever held Mr. Wilbon in high esteem. But those feelings of respect are as gone as Sean is, and just as is the case with Sean, they aren't ever coming back.

If you detractors had one one-thousandths of the courage of Sean Taylor, Taylor's girlfriend or Taylor's father (and the rest of his family), you would have written a piece apologizing for these utterly uncaring remarks made on Monday. But you vitriolic haters, like Wilbon, do not, and so instead of feeling like the writer cares about his readers or the people that care about the family of the deceased. we were treated to chickenhawk "how dare you's" attempting to hide Wilbon's lack of feeling in the aftermath of the brutal killing of Sean Taylor.

Wrong, lamentable, outrageous, sickening -- choose your own adjective.

See bullet four.

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Just_Osmo

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#2 Just_Osmo
Member since 2007 • 3838 Posts

OJ Simpson was found not guilty of murdering his wife....and he so killed her.

Being found not guilty of a charge in this country does not mean you didn't do it. It means you had a damn good lawyer.

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Just_Osmo

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#3 Just_Osmo
Member since 2007 • 3838 Posts

PS: Long posts on forums = no one reads them. Everything you said could have been summed up in an easy to read paragraph.

In fact I bet I can sum it up in one sentence!

"Your all racist and stupid."

There you go!

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kidwacky

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#4 kidwacky
Member since 2005 • 567 Posts
gamespot is the wrong place to post this, go to the politics forum
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X360PS3AMD05

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#5 X360PS3AMD05
Member since 2005 • 36320 Posts
I agree, i get that feeling from everywhere like "oh some black dude died, he was probably hanging with the wrong crowed lets move on"....
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Just_Osmo

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#7 Just_Osmo
Member since 2007 • 3838 Posts

I agree, i get that feeling from everywhere like "oh some black dude died, he was probably hanging with the wrong crowed lets move on"....X360PS3AMD05

It's not like anyone said "oh he's black thats why". He had prior gun charges. Sure he was foundnot guilty.. but we all know how the american judicial system is.

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murlow12

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#8 murlow12
Member since 2005 • 11109 Posts
Wow, spare me the 45 minute read. But the bottom line is that Wilbon's right. Now of us should be surprised. When you live that lifestyle (even if he had supposedly "changed"), you should expect the consequences.
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UssjTrunks

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#9 UssjTrunks
Member since 2005 • 11299 Posts

Wow, spare me the 45 minute read. But the bottom line is that Wilbon's right. Now of us should be surprised. When you live that lifestyle (even if he had supposedly "changed"), you should expect the consequences.murlow12

QFT.

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F4vRe

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#11 F4vRe
Member since 2006 • 301 Posts
Did anyone actually read all of that?
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murlow12

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#12 murlow12
Member since 2005 • 11109 Posts

[QUOTE="murlow12"]Wow, spare me the 45 minute read. But the bottom line is that Wilbon's right. Now of us should be surprised. When you live that lifestyle (even if he had supposedly "changed"), you should expect the consequences.WhoShotMe

What lifestyle did he live? Were you there? Just because he wore his hair in an afro doesn't make him a thug.

Goddamn dummy.

After you consult your crystal ball for those answers, be sure to get at me.

First, I don't appreciate the blatant insult. The fact that you call me names just b/c you disagree with me shows that I shouldn't even value your opinion at all. Second, it was common knowlege that the guy was a "thug". The fact that he supposedly "changed" after his baby was born proves that he wasn't living an ideal life before. It was dangerous and likely illegal, which is why he needed to change.

I understand that you are saddened by his loss, but this anger is misguided. You don't have to lash out at society everytime a black man is murdered.

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WhoShotMe

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#13 WhoShotMe
Member since 2002 • 5202 Posts

First, I don't appreciate the blatant insult. The fact that you call me names just b/c you disagree with me shows that I shouldn't even value your opinion at all. Second, it was common knowlege that the guy was a "thug". The fact that he supposedly "changed" after his baby was born proves that he wasn't living an ideal life before. It was dangerous and likely illegal, which is why he needed to change.

I understand that you are saddened by his loss, but this anger is misguided. You don't have to lash out at society everytime a black man is murdered.

murlow12

Like I said before...

Referring to his life as "troubled" is not accurate. These incidents are merely 4 or 5 bad decisions made in a lifetime of a million good ones. These writers have attempted to take take away from the tragic nature of this incident, the loss of a human life, and minimized it to the result of a (at best) rumored life****of which they are too afraid to research and discover, therefore know nothing about, and THUS are not QUALIFIED to speculate about.

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Rhazakna

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#14 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
I'm notvery familiar with Taylor's personal life, but just because he was acquitted of the gun charge, doesn't mean he was "proven innocent". All that means is 12 people decided not to convict him. Innocence doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.
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-Halftime-

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#15 -Halftime-
Member since 2007 • 10004 Posts

I agree with you man. I hate when people are trying to make this a race issue.

Sean Taylor made some bad decisions in his life, definitely, but that doesn't mean he was a bad guy or a "thug". Simply an immature kid that did some stupid things at the time. The man was killed in his own home, protecting his girl & his daughter. Not in some strip club or on a street corner. This "Hung out with the wrong crowd" thing can go out the window till we actually know if the man that killed Sean was an aquaintance of his, because that accusation has no weight at this point.

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WhoShotMe

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#16 WhoShotMe
Member since 2002 • 5202 Posts

I agree with you man. I hate when people are trying to make this a race issue.

Sean Taylor made some bad decisions in his life, definitely, but that doesn't mean he was a bad guy or a "thug". Simply an immature kid that did some stupid things at the time. The man was killed in his own home, protecting his girl & his daughter. Not in some strip club or on a street corner. This "Hung out with the wrong crowd" thing can go out the window till we actually know if the man that killed Sean was an aquaintance of his, because that accusation has no weight at this point.

-Halftime-

Exactly.

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#17 numismatic
Member since 2005 • 775 Posts

Let me preface my post by stating the following: I am black, I live in Maryland, I read your entire post and the Wilbon article. Having said that to all the people who failed to do the last two things on my list really have no business responding to this topic. I think that the original poster is wrong to be angry at Wilbon. The thesis of Wilbon's article wasn't to criticize Sean Taylor for his past but a warning to any black kid living in the "hood" that you have to leave the "hood" behind literally and figuratively if you want to succeed. I think that this is an admirable message and one I hope that some people heed in the wake of Taylor's death.

A note to all the people blaming Taylor for his death based on his past, you have got to be the most intellectually challenged bunches out there if you fail to recognize that his death was senseless and not borne out of any past actions or misconduct. Op in your article you seem to have followed Wilbon's advice, you left D.C. and are now leaving a successful life and most of the people you know who are doing well left the "hood." I only assume that you hail from the "hood" because you talked about you and your friends carrying weapons, that is not something you find in suburbia everyday. I am not mad at Bill Cosby, heck, I think what he is doing is quite admirable. Just because you and I are doing well in life doesn't mean that what he says isn't true for a lot of inner city black kids. The truth of the matter is that black kids are lagging and failing to complete k-12 at a very alarming rate. Coupled with the rise of skilled and technical jobs needed to make a living in the U.S. it is alarming to hear that black kids are failing to equip themselves with teh basic knowledge to suceed. Quite frankly the solution to the problem isn't going to come if we refuse to speak about it. So what the white media paints blacks in broad strokes, that is peanuts to what Blacks are doing to themselves.

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murlow12

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#18 murlow12
Member since 2005 • 11109 Posts

[QUOTE="murlow12"]Wow, spare me the 45 minute read. But the bottom line is that Wilbon's right. Now of us should be surprised. When you live that lifestyle (even if he had supposedly "changed"), you should expect the consequences.WhoShotMe

What lifestyle did he live? Were you there? Just because he wore his hair in an afro doesn't make him a thug.

Goddamn dummy.

After you consult your crystal ball for those answers, be sure to get at me.

By the way, WhoShotMe, take a look at numismatic's post. You could learn a lot about how to express yourself in an intelligent way that will actually garner thoughtful conversation. All of this anger doesn't lead to constructive conversation.
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#19 peacebringer
Member since 2006 • 3371 Posts
So those black guys on TV are wrong and you are right? It doesn't surprise me that a Player from a thug backround wether guilty in court or not got shot, His sister threw a Part for the whole Ghetto in Miami and that ended up being why people found out about his house and his wealth. Will Tom Brady Or Tony Romo let there Sisters throw a party for thugs and wangsters. Don't tell me there was no thugs or Wangsters in the Party cause one of thems in jail for killer Sean Taylor. You have to be careful who you associate with and who you brag too. If i was a football player like Sean Taylor i would have lived in Washington, D.C but thats just me. the Ghetto doesn't want you anymore after you make more than Amillion, if you come back you know they gonna rob you if they can, so he needed to move to Washington to avoid those kinda people. Sure there might be thugs and gangsters in D.C but they don't know taylor or were he lives, his sister should feel like **** cause i know if i threw a party and invited people who later would rob my brother and kill him i would be devistated. this whole Fisasco is Ignorance. To kids under 18, why can't they just get a job? and why bring a gun Of they had no plans to harm anyone? it's all bull**** i hope they burn those Kids as an example for every other 15-18 who thinks having a gun and being a wangster is cool. I really am gonna get my popcorn ready when they fry those bastards.
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#20 peacebringer
Member since 2006 • 3371 Posts
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]

I agree with you man. I hate when people are trying to make this a race issue.

Sean Taylor made some bad decisions in his life, definitely, but that doesn't mean he was a bad guy or a "thug". Simply an immature kid that did some stupid things at the time. The man was killed in his own home, protecting his girl & his daughter. Not in some strip club or on a street corner. This "Hung out with the wrong crowd" thing can go out the window till we actually know if the man that killed Sean was an aquaintance of his, because that accusation has no weight at this point.

WhoShotMe

Exactly.

nope it is a race issue. you won't see no white football player have troubles like this cause they have never associated with people like this, not because they didn't want to just cause of where there from and where they lived. Before the killers were named what did people say? It was black on black crime, this without any evidence out, how did the media know this? Cause it is about race. People need to grow up thats fure sure and you 2 can start by opening your eyes.

I was actually surprised Sean lived in Miami cause he players for Washington what does that tell you? His sister still hung out with the wrong crowd? And until last year he was hanging with the same people. I feel bad for Sean but i feel worse for The younger generation because they seem to be heading in the wrong direction. acting like gansgters robbing people for no reason these losers need to find a job.

Sadly if was a football player and my sister threw big partys and invite people from the hood she hardly knew in my house, i think she would fall into the wrong crowd. Sometimes even siblings can be the wrong crown(MIchael Vick is going to jail with his uncle)I Would make sure my sister did he bzness in her house not mine. So you might think Family doesn't fall under wrong crowd but it does.

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CrimzonTide

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#21 CrimzonTide
Member since 2007 • 12187 Posts
A note to all the people blaming Taylor for his death based on his past, you have got to be the most intellectually challenged bunches out there if you fail to recognize that his death was senseless and not borne out of any past actions or misconduct.numismatic
So it was a random act of violence? Sure. Just like all his friends have been saying publicly, it wasn't random man. As Antrelle Rolle stated, he had plenty of enemies on the streets of Miami. His death was in some way brought about by his upbringing, and I'm not saying his decisions were wrong enough to warrant any action being taken against him. We don't have nearly enough information to say that, and murder is to the ridiculous extreme anyway. But the fact remains, right or wrong, his death was in fact related to his earlier life.
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X360PS3AMD05

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#22 X360PS3AMD05
Member since 2005 • 36320 Posts
Even if he was a "thug", doesn't make it cool for someone to come into your house and blast you. LOL i just heard some gunshots earlier :lol:
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-Halftime-

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#23 -Halftime-
Member since 2007 • 10004 Posts

nope it is a race issue. you won't see no white football player have troubles like this cause they have never associated with people like this, not because they didn't want to just cause of where there from and where they lived. Before the killers were named what did people say? It was black on black crime, this without any evidence out, how did the media know this? Cause it is about race. People need to grow up thats fure sure and you 2 can start by opening your eyes.

I was actually surprised Sean lived in Miami cause he players for Washington what does that tell you? His sister still hung out with the wrong crowd? And until last year he was hanging with the same people. I feel bad for Sean but i feel worse for The younger generation because they seem to be heading in the wrong direction. acting like gansgters robbing people for no reason these losers need to find a job.

Sadly if was a football player and my sister threw big partys and invite people from the hood she hardly knew in my house, i think she would fall into the wrong crowd. Sometimes even siblings can be the wrong crown(MIchael Vick is going to jail with his uncle)I Would make sure my sister did he bzness in her house not mine. So you might think Family doesn't fall under wrong crowd but it does.

The bolded part was one of the most stereotypical, ridiculously dumb thing I've ever heard in my entire life. Quit while your ahead, please. So white players can't get shot? Why not? Are all white players good people from good neighborhoods that hang out with good people? Your post is so ridiculous that it is not even funny. the man was killed IN HIS HOME. ANYONE can get killed in their own home, color has jack to do with it. I actually find it so ridiculous you would say a white guy can't get killed in this way because they "don't hang out with those people" and "where they lived". What you said was ridiculously stereotypical. So the entire white race, doesn't hang out with bad crowds or come from bad neighborhoods? I wasn't aware that you could speak for an entire race of people. I guess all white people are from the suburbs & have martini parties every weekend, wiyth nice people, like they should, right? :roll: If you honestly bveleive that then get out, seriously. A white player could come from a rough neighborhood too, white people could hang out with the wrong crowd, too. I've personally seen it in real life.

Are you trying to say there's no white people that come from the ghetto? Are you f'n KIDDING me man? You don't have to be black to come from a rough neighborhood, not at all.

Stop trying to make this into a race issue. Sean Taylor's death has nothing to do with him being black.

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N15PCA

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#24 N15PCA
Member since 2006 • 261 Posts

I think that the original poster is wrong to be angry at Wilbon. The thesis of Wilbon's article wasn't to criticize Sean Taylor for his past but a warning to any black kid living in the "hood" that you have to leave the "hood" behind literally and figuratively if you want to succeed. I think that this is an admirable message and one I hope that some people heed in the wake of Taylor's death.

Op in your article you seem to have followed Wilbon's advice, you left D.C. and are now leaving a successful life and most of the people you know who are doing well left the "hood." I only assume that you hail from the "hood" because you talked about you and your friends carrying weapons, that is not something you find in suburbia everyday. I am not mad at Bill Cosby, heck, I think what he is doing is quite admirable. Just because you and I are doing well in life doesn't mean that what he says isn't true for a lot of inner city black kids. The truth of the matter is that black kids are lagging and failing to complete k-12 at a very alarming rate. Coupled with the rise of skilled and technical jobs needed to make a living in the U.S. it is alarming to hear that black kids are failing to equip themselves with the basic knowledge to suceed.

numismatic

I agree with those part's of your post. Sean Taylor knew one of the kids that is now being reported. I think he was trying to reach out to one of the kids and they didn't care. They wanted is stuff in this Miami home and they though he wasn't home. They were wrong and Sean Taylor paid with his life.

Did any of you catch what Charles Barkley had about what happen on ESPN radio a couple of days ago about what happen. He had some good point about being a rich black and famous. He said some black men don't care if you made it they want you money and want to be you.

P.S I have thank you WhoShotMe for your military service. Your doing a good thing for your country.

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#26 nickdastick
Member since 2004 • 5286 Posts

[QUOTE="murlow12"]Wow, spare me the 45 minute read. But the bottom line is that Wilbon's right. Now of us should be surprised. When you live that lifestyle (even if he had supposedly "changed"), you should expect the consequences.WhoShotMe

What lifestyle did he live? Were you there? Just because he wore his hair in an afro doesn't make him a thug.

Goddamn dummy.

After you consult your crystal ball for those answers, be sure to get at me.

According to his buddy Antrell Rolle who plays on the Cards, who has been his friend since they were both 6, he had been involved with people that were less reputable and were into the kind of stuff that isn't the best. He did get away from that life recently but Antrell totally thinks that those people he was affiliated with previously were involved in Taylor's death. I think it's totally sad that Taylor had to die especially after all the great things he has done and been involved with. He was such an amazing athlete and he will be missed.