Lebron will never be Jordan, was handed championships

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MDK12345

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#1 MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

Let's get one thing out the way, will we yo? Lebron has won 2 rings and lost 3 times. He barely won in that first Spurs matchup. Down 6 points with 23 seconds left. He really should have won just 1 out of 5 times. Nonetheless, he has still struck out 3 times.

Jordan never lost once. I don't care that Lebron is 6 foot 8 and out rebounded, out assisted Jordan by a decent margin. They have a different style and play different positions, under different systems. Lebron could never score at will the way Jordan could. It just doesn't happen.

He had to pair up with Bosh and Wade. Now he has to pair up with Irving and Love. That's total BS. They are trying to hand Lebron rings, the commissioners.

He'll never be Jordan. He doesn't have the go2 moves, the fadeway, or even the same focus and drive. Jordan was one of the best trash talkers ever, he made you scared. He had the total game. Jordan always found a way to get it done and Lebron failed much more. Lebron is a journey chaser.

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Put_in_Kitna

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#2 Put_in_Kitna
Member since 2009 • 2765 Posts

@mdk12345: You must mean the 2nd spurs matchup as he played them when he was with the Cavs as well. Anyway, thanks for the obvious. Jordan>lebrick.

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#3 RevanBITW
Member since 2013 • 739 Posts

@mdk12345 said:

Let's get one thing out the way, will we yo? Lebron has won 2 rings and lost 3 times. He barely won in that first Spurs matchup. Down 6 points with 23 seconds left. He really should have won just 1 out of 5 times. Nonetheless, he has still struck out 3 times.

Jordan never lost once. I don't care that Lebron is 6 foot 8 and out rebounded, out assisted Jordan by a decent margin. They have a different style and play different positions, under different systems. Lebron could never score at will the way Jordan could. It just doesn't happen.

He had to pair up with Bosh and Wade. Now he has to pair up with Irving and Love. That's total BS. They are trying to hand Lebron rings, the commissioners.

He'll never be Jordan. He doesn't have the go2 moves, the fadeway, or even the same focus and drive. Jordan was one of the best trash talkers ever, he made you scared. He had the total game. Jordan always found a way to get it done and Lebron failed much more. Lebron is a journey chaser.

Jordan fans are so fucking insecure. lmao

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#4 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

So bizarre how people forget that Jordan's Bulls were stacked in every position and coached by arguably the greatest of the modern era. That and Jordan played in an easier era than LeBron. Just look at how shit the NBA was when Jordan retired.

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#5 cdragon_88
Member since 2003 • 1688 Posts

In other news: water is wet.

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#6 DaBrainz
Member since 2007 • 7959 Posts

Considering they completely tightened the rules up back in the 90s so Jordon could win, I say you are full of it.

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yokofox33

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#7 yokofox33
Member since 2004 • 30775 Posts

Chris Bosh > Brian Scalabrine >>>> Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron

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Innovazero2000

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#8  Edited By Innovazero2000
Member since 2006 • 3159 Posts

I have no idea why people can't just accept these are two different players from two different era's (Don't even get me started on how different the market/salary caps are)

The insecurity is astounding, and because of that people are missing out on a great player. I loved Jordan growing up, but Lebron took an offensively handy capped cavs team to the Finals (And willed it so against Detroit, that 2OT game he had was an all time performance). For all of Jordan's greatness, I can't ever see him doing that. To be fair, Lebron is one of the few people that could/can play all 5 positions and do it well. Magic Johnson was the last person I've seen that could do that as well or better.

Jordan was and is one of the GOAT, but let's not kid ourselves with that Bulls Dynasty in the 90's coached by one of the best of all time. You don't do that alone...

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#9 ManBearPuig
Member since 2013 • 42 Posts

@Innovazero2000 said:

I have no idea why people can't just accept these are two different players from two different era's (Don't even get me started on how different the market/salary caps are)

The insecurity is astounding, and because of that people are missing out on a great player. I loved Jordan growing up, but Lebron took an offensively handy capped cavs team to the Finals (And willed it so against Detroit, that 2OT game he had was an all time performance). For all of Jordan's greatness, I can't ever see him doing that. To be fair, Lebron is one of the few people that could/can play all 5 positions and do it well. Magic Johnson was the last person I've seen that could do that as well or better.

Jordan was and is one of the GOAT, but let's not kid ourselves with that Bulls Dynasty in the 90's coached by one of the best of all time. You don't do that alone...

You can't see Jordan doing something like that? Jordan dropped 63 on the Celtics in the garden, against one of the best defenses of all time. I'm sorry, but LeBron carrying a sad sack team to the Finals in a truly pitiful conference doesn't compare. Jordan was the greatest basketball player of all time.

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MDK12345

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#10 MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

Puig

@Innovazero2000 said:

I have no idea why people can't just accept these are two different players from two different era's (Don't even get me started on how different the market/salary caps are)

The insecurity is astounding, and because of that people are missing out on a great player. I loved Jordan growing up, but Lebron took an offensively handy capped cavs team to the Finals (And willed it so against Detroit, that 2OT game he had was an all time performance). For all of Jordan's greatness, I can't ever see him doing that. To be fair, Lebron is one of the few people that could/can play all 5 positions and do it well. Magic Johnson was the last person I've seen that could do that as well or better.

Jordan was and is one of the GOAT, but let's not kid ourselves with that Bulls Dynasty in the 90's coached by one of the best of all time. You don't do that alone...

You're crazy. What you said would make sense if only it were accurate. But Jordan was a God. People feared him. Lebron is not quite Jordan. Lebron is a lot of hype. He didn't have the same fire as Michael Jordan. I'm talking ''eye of the tiger.'' You know what I mean. Jordan had that competitive spirit in him that didn't allow him to lose. And just look at the way they played. Sure, Lebron overpowers some people, but Jordan had the magic touch. When he took that last shot, you knew it was going in. Lebrick? Miss after miss! He has like 3 game winners in his career, but has probably missed like 50 times. Remember how bad he choked in the 4th quarter of that Dallas finals? Big epic choke! Even this year, he cramped up against the aging Spurs! Jordan would have never lost in either of those series! Jordan was god. He could not be stopped. Lebron stops himself and cannot shoot like Jordan could, could not make impossible fadeways. He did not have the touch and finesse of Michael!

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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#11 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

They aren't even comparable. People actually draw comparisons? Lebron is a good player but there's tons of league hype involved in why he has became so popular. I bet he knows it himself, and hates it, that the league made him out to be "the next big thing."

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#12  Edited By DaJuicyMan
Member since 2010 • 3557 Posts

People won't appreciate Lebron until he's gone. Just like MJ.

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#13  Edited By Innovazero2000
Member since 2006 • 3159 Posts

@mdk12345 said:

Puig

@Innovazero2000 said:

I have no idea why people can't just accept these are two different players from two different era's (Don't even get me started on how different the market/salary caps are)

The insecurity is astounding, and because of that people are missing out on a great player. I loved Jordan growing up, but Lebron took an offensively handy capped cavs team to the Finals (And willed it so against Detroit, that 2OT game he had was an all time performance). For all of Jordan's greatness, I can't ever see him doing that. To be fair, Lebron is one of the few people that could/can play all 5 positions and do it well. Magic Johnson was the last person I've seen that could do that as well or better.

Jordan was and is one of the GOAT, but let's not kid ourselves with that Bulls Dynasty in the 90's coached by one of the best of all time. You don't do that alone...

You're crazy. What you said would make sense if only it were accurate. But Jordan was a God. People feared him. Lebron is not quite Jordan. Lebron is a lot of hype. He didn't have the same fire as Michael Jordan. I'm talking ''eye of the tiger.'' You know what I mean. Jordan had that competitive spirit in him that didn't allow him to lose. And just look at the way they played. Sure, Lebron overpowers some people, but Jordan had the magic touch. When he took that last shot, you knew it was going in. Lebrick? Miss after miss! He has like 3 game winners in his career, but has probably missed like 50 times. Remember how bad he choked in the 4th quarter of that Dallas finals? Big epic choke! Even this year, he cramped up against the aging Spurs! Jordan would have never lost in either of those series! Jordan was god. He could not be stopped. Lebron stops himself and cannot shoot like Jordan could, could not make impossible fadeways. He did not have the touch and finesse of Michael!

Great players still take that shot, he missed... it happens. Jordan is 50% on last minute shots, Lebron is somewhere in the 40's, not that far behind. (For Comparison Kobe is the high 20's) http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58575/lebron-james-isnt-clutch-think-again

You mean with the Bulls team that damn near made the finals even without him. You take Lebron off that Cavs team in 07 and they don't make the playoffs (maybe 7-8th tops on defense alone). Jordan was great, but your obvious distain for Lebron is apparent. I'm not saying Lebron is or isn't equal to Jordan. They are two different players. Go look up some cold hard statistics, they tell the tale and Lebron shines plenty on his own.

As for the Spurs. Cramping happens, he was also averaging 28 pts on 58% shooting from the field. His team mates failed him.

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#14  Edited By Innovazero2000
Member since 2006 • 3159 Posts

@manbearpuig said:

@Innovazero2000 said:

I have no idea why people can't just accept these are two different players from two different era's (Don't even get me started on how different the market/salary caps are)

The insecurity is astounding, and because of that people are missing out on a great player. I loved Jordan growing up, but Lebron took an offensively handy capped cavs team to the Finals (And willed it so against Detroit, that 2OT game he had was an all time performance). For all of Jordan's greatness, I can't ever see him doing that. To be fair, Lebron is one of the few people that could/can play all 5 positions and do it well. Magic Johnson was the last person I've seen that could do that as well or better.

Jordan was and is one of the GOAT, but let's not kid ourselves with that Bulls Dynasty in the 90's coached by one of the best of all time. You don't do that alone...

You can't see Jordan doing something like that? Jordan dropped 63 on the Celtics in the garden, against one of the best defenses of all time. I'm sorry, but LeBron carrying a sad sack team to the Finals in a truly pitiful conference doesn't compare. Jordan was the greatest basketball player of all time.

That was truly an all great performance, perhaps the best. They however still lost... which was a damn shame. I think every sports fan was pulling for him during that performance.

Lebron was also facing if I recall elimination in his 2OT game. You can call it what it is, but Detroit was pretty good that year and a very good Boston team at that point had been going back and forth (or began too) with the Lakers. Like dude said, Lebron won't be truly appreciated until he's hung it up.

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#15  Edited By ManBearPuig
Member since 2013 • 42 Posts

I appreciate LeBron plenty. I'm just not quick to throw him over the best basketball player I've ever seen.

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#16 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 17800 Posts

@manbearpuig said:

I appreciate LeBron plenty. I'm just not quick to throw him over the best basketball player I've ever seen.

Well he will be only 30 during the 2014-2015 season, so the word is still out on James. Jordan was still producing in his 30s. He was 35 when the Bulls last won a title and possibly could of have won more as he was still playing at a high level.

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#17  Edited By MonkeyJimmy
Member since 2014 • 43 Posts

Leborn's mind is very weak.He cannot accept failure.poor heat,poor wade.

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#18 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46095 Posts

@DaJuicyMan said:

People won't appreciate Lebron until he's gone. Just like MJ.

lolwut?

Not a fan of Lebron, but he wasn't handed shit. Every NBA championship team has good-great players on it. Don't act like MJ, who is easily the best, didn't have a good supporting cast. Because he did.

That being said, MJ>>> lebron, easy

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#19 ManBearPuig
Member since 2013 • 42 Posts

@Chutebox said:

@DaJuicyMan said:

People won't appreciate Lebron until he's gone. Just like MJ.

lolwut?

Not a fan of Lebron, but he wasn't handed shit. Every NBA championship team has good-great players on it. Don't act like MJ, who is easily the best, didn't have a good supporting cast. Because he did.

That being said, MJ>>> lebron, easy

I agree with this. Championships aren't handed to anybody. LeBron worked hard for his two titles.

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#20  Edited By bforrester420
Member since 2014 • 3480 Posts

Jordan played on much better teams. Jordan left the Bulls, they made the playoffs the next two years. Lebron left a 61 win Cleveland team which proceeded to lose 63 games the next year. Lebron had a washed-up Dwayne Wade, Jordan had Scottie Pippen, an all-timer, at the peak of his game. Jordan never made the Finals until Pippen showed up.

Jordan also had Kukoc, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong...basically he always had a strong supporting cast during his championship seasons. He also always had true centers and power forwards (Cartwright, Will Purdue, Luc Longley, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman) while Lebron had Chris Bosh masquerading as a center. LeBron has never had a well-rounded team like Jordan's Bulls had. Jordan played with more than one Hall of Fame inductee during their prime (Rodman and Pippen), on the same team, while Lebron played with a washed-up Shaq and injury plagued Dwayne Wade, but not on the same team.

Jordan is also an asshole and a generally unlikable human being while there are no stories of LeBron being a dick. I don't know about you, but I have a hard time rooting for Jerks.

Wilt Chamberlain, one of his era's most dominant players, only won 2 NBA Championships. Comparing two individuals by using team accomplishments is a fundamentally flawed argument.

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MDK12345

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#21  Edited By MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

@bforrester420 said:

Jordan played on much better teams. Jordan left the Bulls, they made the playoffs the next two years. Lebron left a 61 win Cleveland team which proceeded to lose 63 games the next year. Lebron had a washed-up Dwayne Wade, Jordan had Scottie Pippen, an all-timer, at the peak of his game. Jordan never made the Finals until Pippen showed up.

Jordan also had Kukoc, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong...basically he always had a strong supporting cast during his championship seasons. He also always had true centers and power forwards (Cartwright, Will Purdue, Luc Longley, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman) while Lebron had Chris Bosh masquerading as a center. LeBron has never had a well-rounded team like Jordan's Bulls had. Jordan played with more than one Hall of Fame inductee during their prime (Rodman and Pippen), on the same team, while Lebron played with a washed-up Shaq and injury plagued Dwayne Wade, but not on the same team.

Jordan is also an asshole and a generally unlikable human being while there are no stories of LeBron being a dick. I don't know about you, but I have a hard time rooting for Jerks.

Wilt Chamberlain, one of his era's most dominant players, only won 2 NBA Championships. Comparing two individuals by using team accomplishments is a fundamentally flawed argument.

Well all I know is that Jordan was the most feared player in the game. How many championship opportunities has Lebron squandered?

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#22  Edited By ManBearPuig
Member since 2013 • 42 Posts

@bforrester420 said:

Jordan played on much better teams. Jordan left the Bulls, they made the playoffs the next two years. Lebron left a 61 win Cleveland team which proceeded to lose 63 games the next year. Lebron had a washed-up Dwayne Wade, Jordan had Scottie Pippen, an all-timer, at the peak of his game. Jordan never made the Finals until Pippen showed up.

Jordan also had Kukoc, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong...basically he always had a strong supporting cast during his championship seasons. He also always had true centers and power forwards (Cartwright, Will Purdue, Luc Longley, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman) while Lebron had Chris Bosh masquerading as a center. LeBron has never had a well-rounded team like Jordan's Bulls had. Jordan played with more than one Hall of Fame inductee during their prime (Rodman and Pippen), on the same team, while Lebron played with a washed-up Shaq and injury plagued Dwayne Wade, but not on the same team.

Jordan is also an asshole and a generally unlikable human being while there are no stories of LeBron being a dick. I don't know about you, but I have a hard time rooting for Jerks.

Wilt Chamberlain, one of his era's most dominant players, only won 2 NBA Championships. Comparing two individuals by using team accomplishments is a fundamentally flawed argument.

This is so silly it's not even funny. Who the hell cares how nice of a person Jordan was? He was a psycho on the court, the best offensive and defensive player in the league for every season from his third year to the second three peat. No one was more feared, no one was more well rounded, no one elevated their game more when it mattered.

If you want to win the pussy olympics you would have a point. But we're talking about basketball here. Being a nice person and being a good ball player aren't mutually exclusive. I have no doubt that Jordan would dominate LeBron and pretty much any star in todays game. The best on ball defender I've ever seen besides Michael Cooper. He was the most well rounded player I've ever seen. No weakness anywhere in his game.

It has nothing to do with rings. Jordan was a better player, and would have been if he only won 1 title. Check the stats. LeBron James can be unstoppable. Michael Jordan WAS unstoppable, and the only thing stopping him from 8 in a row was him getting bored of dominating.

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#23 monkeytoes61
Member since 2005 • 8399 Posts

Who cares if Lebron lost in the finals three times? I'll never understand how people think losing in the finals of any league is worse than never getting there in the first place. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.

If it's so obvious that MJ is superior, why do his fan boys constantly have to bring down Lebron and drum up how great MJ was? If it were that obvious, MJ wouldn't need you little people standing in front of him with your sword and shield. Different players, different eras, impossible to compare. Get. Over. It.

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#24 Braun_Roid_Rage
Member since 2013 • 790 Posts

@Put_in_Kitna said:

@mdk12345: Anyway, thanks for the obvious. Jordan>lebrick.

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#25  Edited By mont13
Member since 2006 • 1468 Posts

@monkeytoes61: "Different players, different eras, impossible to compare. Get. Over. It."

Bravo!

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#27 glassrealms
Member since 2014 • 25 Posts

@Heirren said:

They aren't even comparable. People actually draw comparisons? Lebron is a good player but there's tons of league hype involved in why he has became so popular. I bet he knows it himself, and hates it, that the league made him out to be "the next big thing."

True that. I don't understand why people want a replica of Jordan SO badly. He had his time and he was great. I remember seeing an interview with Kobe, who said it was ridiculous that people were disappointed in LeBron ONLY having 2 rings. That's 2 more than many great NBA players have. The NBA is different now and LeBron is a fantastic player. So stop living in the past and just enjoy the games.

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MDK12345

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#28  Edited By MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

Why is LBJ overrated? he cannot make players better except mediocre players who shoot 3's well. That is fact now. He didn't make Wade better. He even changed Bosh's games and made Bosh soft. He'll probably make Love worse as well. Lebron makes average players good but he makes great players worse. That is a fact. Jordan never got to play with talented players, he turned them into stars. Look at how bad Pippen was after Jordan.

See Lebron can make players who can't create for themselves, better. But he makes one on one players much much worse and he worsens the spacing.

He is not Magic Johnson with his passing. 7 assists is not 14. And he's not a great ball handler either, he doesn't have the best handles. He isn't a great shooter either. If you think about it, Lebron doesn't do many things exceptionally well except for a couple of things and I'll tell you what they are. He also isn't a great rebounder. Good for his position, but Durant had more last season. Oh and since he plays power forward, his rebound numbers are actually bad.

He demanded a Love trade lol. He always needs stars, always. He lost in the finals 3 times and choked to Nowitski and Duncan. Jordan never choked. Only reason Lebron made the finals is the East is so easy. He simply is not that good.

What he does do is stat pad and flop. That's why his scoring is high and his field goal percentage is high. he gets fouls called because he is a good flopper and has a good reputation. His field goal percentage is high because he doesn't take risky shots like Kobe. He stat pads. And the only advantage he has is that he is strong and can drive decently well. That's it. Nothing else about his game is great. He didn't have the signature jump shot or fadeway that Jordan had, things that defined him. LBJ is simply above average.

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MDK12345

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#29 MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

@erwanjucael said:

LeBron has never had a well-rounded team like on the same team, while Lebron played with a washed-up Shaq and injury plagued Dwayne Wade, but not on the same team.Jordan's Bulls had. Jordan played with more than one Hall of Fame inductee during their prime

Xtreme Antler

Bull. Lebron had Bosh, Wade, Haslem, Miller, Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers. How much more do u need if you're as good as Jordan?

Jordan only played with Pippen, but made him better. Pipper would not be top 50 without MJ. Rodman joined later on.

LBJ played with Shaq, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and now Kyrie Iving and Kevin Love. It really is sad.

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#30  Edited By No_Hablo_Ingles
Member since 2009 • 8448 Posts

@mdk12345 said:

Why is LBJ overrated? he cannot make players better except mediocre players who shoot 3's well. That is fact now. He didn't make Wade better. He even changed Bosh's games and made Bosh soft. He'll probably make Love worse as well. Lebron makes average players good but he makes great players worse. That is a fact. Jordan never got to play with talented players, he turned them into stars. Look at how bad Pippen was after Jordan.

See Lebron can make players who can't create for themselves, better. But he makes one on one players much much worse and he worsens the spacing.

He is not Magic Johnson with his passing. 7 assists is not 14. And he's not a great ball handler either, he doesn't have the best handles. He isn't a great shooter either. If you think about it, Lebron doesn't do many things exceptionally well except for a couple of things and I'll tell you what they are. He also isn't a great rebounder. Good for his position, but Durant had more last season. Oh and since he plays power forward, his rebound numbers are actually bad.

He demanded a Love trade lol. He always needs stars, always. He lost in the finals 3 times and choked to Nowitski and Duncan. Jordan never choked. Only reason Lebron made the finals is the East is so easy. He simply is not that good.

What he does do is stat pad and flop. That's why his scoring is high and his field goal percentage is high. he gets fouls called because he is a good flopper and has a good reputation. His field goal percentage is high because he doesn't take risky shots like Kobe. He stat pads. And the only advantage he has is that he is strong and can drive decently well. That's it. Nothing else about his game is great. He didn't have the signature jump shot or fadeway that Jordan had, things that defined him. LBJ is simply above average.

"He cannot make players better except mediocre players who shoot 3's well. That is fact now. He didn't make Wade better."

Talent level does not change regardless. What does change is the positions players are put in and opportunity, and LeBron James often puts his team mates in better positions, thus their %'s shoot up.

Speaking of Wade, lets look at him. Until 2010-2011 season (the season that LeBron made his decision) Wade never had a FG% above 49.5%. That was when Wade was at his peak mind you, and had already won an NBA championship. The 4 years LeBron played with Wade, Wade's FG% never dipped below 49.7% and went as high as last years 54.5%. That .5 difference may not seem like much, but that's the difference between Dirk and Khris Middleton.

Bosh FG% also increased significantly (for 49.2% to 50.9%)

"Look how bad Pippen was after Jordan"

The year Jordan was out of the game, Pippen averaged 22 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assist and 4 Stlocks (Steals + Blocks) a game. If you mean Pippen's later years, after Jordan retired (again...), Pippen was 33, an age you can expect to see a decline.

LeBron does not worsen the spacing... that's just crazy talk at this point. He is a more than respectable 3 point shooter now, and outside shooter in general. General managers surround him with 3 point shooters because the 3 pointer is now the staple in pretty much every offense (minus a few teams) and it's been proven to give you an opportunity in the finals.

As far as you staying he doesn't have the best handles/rebounder/etc. I will say this- That is not an insult to his game, that shows how good his overall talent is. Think of it this way- Even if what you say is true, is there any doubt LeBron is at least a top 2 players right now?

That is because LeBron is a swiss army knife, not a scalpel. He isn't the best passer in the NBA, but he is well average for his position (MJ also was never the best passer). He isn't the best shooter in the NBA (Probably Curry), but he often is among the top 5 in both FG% and points per game. He isn't the best rebounder, but has always ranked top 5 in his position.

It's his overall talent pool that makes him the best player in the NBA, not a single individual skill.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9181

In 623 games, LeBron has 195 double doubles and 32 triple doubles.

In 990 games, Jordan has 183 double doubles and 25 triple doubles.

Please don't make the "LeBron gets calls argument" when you are arguing for Jordan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg

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#31 mont13
Member since 2006 • 1468 Posts

@No_Hablo_Ingles:

"Please don't make the "LeBron gets calls argument" when you are arguing for Jordan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg"

Good video that illustrates what I (and others) have been saying for years. I don't know why the Jordan "thing" (the hype, worship, the Jordanatics...etc.) still amazes or even interests me, but it does. To see grown men (and women I presume) continue to fall all over MJ and act like everythng MJ is beyond reproach (when a fair analysis shows otherwise) is funny and amazing to me.

One of the worse things about it, as video states towards the end, is that some can't appreciate the great talents that other players have brought to the game, that's a real shame. Basketball didn't start, nor will it end with MJ. MJ was great, but imo is the most overhyped, overrated player ever.

Now that Kobes near the end, I look forward to seeing what Anthony Davis will become, he's looked GREAT at times, (and Lebron certainly should be appreciated for what he can do).

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#32 MDK12345
Member since 2014 • 2528 Posts

@mont13 said:

@No_Hablo_Ingles:

"Please don't make the "LeBron gets calls argument" when you are arguing for Jordan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-KCulzJqg"

Good video that illustrates what I (and others) have been saying for years. I don't know why the Jordan "thing" (the hype, worship, the Jordanatics...etc.) still amazes or even interests me, but it does. To see grown men (and women I presume) continue to fall all over MJ and act like everythng MJ is beyond reproach (when a fair analysis shows otherwise) is funny and amazing to me.

One of the worse things about it, as video states towards the end, is that some can't appreciate the great talents that other players have brought to the game, that's a real shame. Basketball didn't start, nor will it end with MJ. MJ was great, but imo is the most overhyped, overrated player ever.

Now that Kobes near the end, I look forward to seeing what Anthony Davis will become, he's looked GREAT at times, (and Lebron certainly should be appreciated for what he can do).

How could he be hype when he controlled the game in godly ways? He GOT whatever he wanted! 70 wins in a season.

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#33  Edited By No_Hablo_Ingles
Member since 2009 • 8448 Posts

Jordan is not just 'hype' however, it is undeniable to me at this point that he is overrated. Over rated does not mean bad, it just means that people rank him too highly. He can be the best player in NBA history and still be overrated due to the fact act as if he was a Deity.

Michael Jordan failed. He failed often. He missed 50% of his game winner (mind you, 50% in these situations is really high, but that fact remains not every attempt ended like

Problem is revisionary history. People say Jordan never chocked, because they either do not remember/do not know that in an elimination game against the Pistons, he scored 2 points in the 4th.

I think this article does a good job summarizing how MJ was a GREAT player who benefited from playing at the right time.

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#34  Edited By mont13
Member since 2006 • 1468 Posts

@mdk12345: "How could he be hype when he controlled the game in Godly ways? He got whatever he wanted! 70 wins in a season."

Didn't say "hype", overhyped. As No_Hablo said, MJ is not just hype, he deserves some of it, but it's gotten ridiculous!

"He controlled the game in Godly ways"? I think winning 11 rings in 13 seasons is closer to controlling the game is Godly ways as Bill Russell and the Celtics did. Wilt owns 72 NBA records,and basically owns the NBA record book, it's not even close to being close, that's closer to Godly dominance. Why didn't Wilt win more rings, same reason MJ didn't win in the 80's. It's a team sport, and there were dominant teams ahead of theirs.

Did MJ control the league Russell/Wilt played in? Did he control the one Bird and Magic played in, no, he couldn't break through until they were in decline (and the Pistons were worn out from the fight against the Celtics and Lakers). How can one be the greatest when he didn't play through all the other great players and their teams and dominate them?

"He got whatever he wanted" Yep, when he became the NBA darling and poster boy, he sure did, and thats a shame (did you watch the video?)

"70 (72) win season" Decline of the great teams, expansion era, league favoritism, closer 3pt line (with some great 3pt shooters) equal 72 win season.

MJ becomes overhyped/overrated when the circumstances of his accomplishments are not considered. 6 rings? Name the greatest teams of All Time and I'm sure none of the teams MJ beat in the finals would make the top 15, probably not 20. How many rings would Magic have if there were no great Cetic team and vice versa? How many would Wilt and Russell if thye didn't have to face there all time great teams? How many would MJ have if all things were the same except he entered the league the same time as Bird and Magic in the 80's, 1, maybe 2, maybe zero (like Elgin Baylor) who was unfortunate to play during the Russell/Chamberlain era. Given their talent and great teams, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell and some others would all be undefeated in the finals if they could face the competion MJ faced. MJ beat some good teams in the finals, but not all time great teams.

MJ's 10 scoring titles? Also 9 times leading the NBA in FGA's, which usually goes unmentioned.

"MJ would score 100 in todays game" No he wouldn't, he didn't even score 100 during his expansion era, with his high fga's, and having a steady dose smaller/undersized 2 guards. MJ said Joe Dumars guarded him the best. Dumars was 6'3"/ 195....Melo, Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Wade would kill Joe Dumars (as much as I like him), John Starks too.

It just goes on and on...MJ would average 40 today, no. MJ would beat Lebron, and other great players today, no. He had trouble guarding 6'9" Magic Johnson, but he would handle Lebron?? No. Hersey Hawkins, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller and others scored big on MJ (25+ points) even during MJ's defensive prime, but MJ would handle Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Wade...etc in their primes..no.

Just my opinion, but Jordan is overhyped and overrated, his career has become a myth.

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#35 No_Hablo_Ingles
Member since 2009 • 8448 Posts

That's pretty much how I feel. I would really like to like Jordan, but his fans make it impossible for me. The fact that people are incapable of accepting other players greatness without the insecure "Jordan was better" is quite sad to me. Who cares if LeBron isn't Jordan? Or if Kobe isn't Jordan?

We don't watch every movie with the same attitude, constantly comparing every movie to the best movie (in our personal opinion) that we've ever seen.
We don't listen to music and critical of every song just because it's not the best song we've ever heard.

I wish people treated sports the same. It's fun to compare All time Greats to current greats (who may or may not be all time greats). Sadly, it gotten to the point where it's considered blasphemy to even think Jordan wasn't the greatest of all time/ever will be.

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#36 mont13
Member since 2006 • 1468 Posts

@No_Hablo_Ingles: Exactly. I know I've been known to go on "anti-Jordan" rants, but it's really anti Jordan hype, can't stand it. Why, because I view myself as a true and long time fan of the pro game. It's just not right for past (and present) greats to have their skills, accomplishments and era diminished in order to hold up all-things MJ as "The Greatest", especially since there is no such thing.

If other greats like Oscar Robertson or Jabbar speak out against the MJ hype some view them as bitter or jealous. I don't blame them, with what they and others brought to the game in their era's they shouldn't have to take a back seat to Jordan. Why do current great players have to win 6 rings to be compared to MJ? Why is his 6 the standard and not Russell's 11? Why should I be overly impressed with MJ's defensive player of the year award when one article I read said Alcindor/Jabbar should have won 3 of them but the award didn't exist at the time (another reason the comparisons are ridiculous and unfair).

I think the "next Jordan" has already come and is almost gone, Kobe. Kobe was the new breed of player. Just like MJ added better shooting and tough defense to what Dr. J brought to the game, Kobe added 3pt shooting, and an amazing array of shot making ability/ball handling/foot work...etc. I agree with Phil Jackson, who agreed that Kobe was more skilled or talented than MJ. It doesn't mean the accomplishments will the same or greater, too many different circumstances. Now Lebron's size, court vision/play making, defensive versatility has added something else.

I look forward to who's next and what they will add, but much of what I hear is ..."he ain't Jordan". Jordan doesn't help with his periodic comments about today's game and players and how he could do this or that........and people slurp it up like he came down from heaven with some great decree.........yeah, it's tough to like him.

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#37 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
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@mdk12345 said:

Why is LBJ overrated? he cannot make players better except mediocre players who shoot 3's well.

I stopped your reading post after this sentence. LeBron made a bum like Mo Williams an all-star.

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#38 I_Return
Member since 2014 • 873 Posts

@cdragon_88 said:

In other news: water is wet.

I thought it was H2O.... ok.

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#39  Edited By cdragon_88
Member since 2003 • 1688 Posts

@i_return said:

@cdragon_88 said:

In other news: water is wet.

I thought it was H2O.... ok.

in other news: welcome to 10/18/2014.

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#40 deactivated-59aca989c9399
Member since 2011 • 458 Posts

Jordan, to me at least, is the GOAT because he had it all. The style, the flair, and was without a doubt the most feared player to go up against during his run in the NBA. He was and still is untouchable. He was the guy you could rely on from start to finish. To nail that game winner when you had only a fraction of a second left on the clock. How many other players can claim that? A very, very select few.

Still, You gotta give credit where credit is due. LBJ had dealt with a lot of crap early in his career with the Cavs, He was the reason they were successful and him leaving only proved that even more. It's rare for a player to make or break a team and he was one of those players. He went to Miami to win a few easy titles and he did just that. Now he has nothing left to prove so why not return to where it all started to see if you can bring a title home. However, if I had to pick a current player to lead my team, It wouldn't be LBJ, It'd be Kobe. Kobe, much like Jordan, is untouchable. He's the face of the Lakers franchise for a reason. He's everything MJ was when he played.