Why doesn't the U.S. have free, taxpayer-funded healthcare and college?

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mattbbpl

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#101 mattbbpl  Online
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@Xabiss: I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that it means tax funded.

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Xabiss

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#102 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@mattbbpl said:

@Xabiss: I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that it means tax funded.

Which means in the end you are paying for it already. Which means the only people getting it for free and getting value out of it are the ones that don't pay taxes. Great system!

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headninjadog

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#103 headninjadog
Member since 2005 • 741 Posts

How the hell are we going to bomb the 3rd world and hate China and Russia if we put our money into healthy citizens and not the military?????

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Horgen

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#104 Horgen  Moderator
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@Xabiss said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Xabiss: I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that it means tax funded.

Which means in the end you are paying for it already. Which means the only people getting it for free and getting value out of it are the ones that don't pay taxes. Great system!

The nation can benefit greatly from a better educated public.

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Jacanuk

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#105 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19042 Posts
@horgen said:
@Xabiss said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Xabiss: I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that it means tax funded.

Which means in the end you are paying for it already. Which means the only people getting it for free and getting value out of it are the ones that don't pay taxes. Great system!

The nation can benefit greatly from a better educated public.

Spot on Horgen

It´s funny that America does not see the writing on the wall and make it a lot easier for people to get a good education, and here we are talking proper education, not Social Justice 101 or South African women movement studies, but courses that are beneficial to the society as a whole and which will be in higher and higher demand as we move into the new technological wave of automation.

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Horgen

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#106 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121340 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

Spot on Horgen

It´s funny that America does not see the writing on the wall and make it a lot easier for people to get a good education, and here we are talking proper education, not Social Justice 101 or South African women movement studies, but courses that are beneficial to the society as a whole and which will be in higher and higher demand as we move into the new technological wave of automation.

Mostly will be proper. Can't avoid a few odd ones which may seem irrelevant for the larger public.

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Xabiss

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#107  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:
@Xabiss said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Xabiss: I'm pretty sure everyone here understands that it means tax funded.

Which means in the end you are paying for it already. Which means the only people getting it for free and getting value out of it are the ones that don't pay taxes. Great system!

The nation can benefit greatly from a better educated public.

Spot on Horgen

It´s funny that America does not see the writing on the wall and make it a lot easier for people to get a good education, and here we are talking proper education, not Social Justice 101 or South African women movement studies, but courses that are beneficial to the society as a whole and which will be in higher and higher demand as we move into the new technological wave of automation.

Its funny because now the majority of people who want an education can get and and get it for free. All you have to do is put a little effort into it and it really is not that hard. If you are poor grants and student aide will take care of the majority of your tuition cost. It's just most people are to damn lazy to do even that. They just want it for free with no effort put into it. So just stop it with the BS you all are spewing.

BTW. This is coming from someone who came for a single mother home where my Mom was making less then 20K a year cleaning houses. I was the first person in my family to not only graduate HS, but went on to get an associates degree at a trade school. I went out from there to get a job and now have two bachelor degrees and two master degrees. So I know from first hand experience you can do it. People today are just to damn lazy and just want handouts with no effort period!

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Jacanuk

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#108 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19042 Posts
@Xabiss said:

Its funny because now the majority of people who want an education can get and and get it for free. All you have to do is put a little effort into it and it really is not that hard. If you are poor grants and student aide will take care of the majority of your tuition cost. It's just most people are to damn lazy to do even that. They just want it for free with no effort put into it. So just stop it with the BS you all are spewing.

BTW. This is coming from someone who came for a single mother home where my Mom was making less then 20K a year cleaning houses. I was the first person in my family to not only graduate HS, but went on to get an associates degree at a trade school. I went out from there to get a job and now have two bachelor degrees and two master degrees. So I know from first hand experience you can do it. People today are just to damn lazy and just want handouts with no effort period!

You make it out to be far easier than it is, also putting yourself into debt is not the answer, as a society, we will be paid back 100 fold if we have a well-educated workforce and especially a younger generation who can fill the growing number of jobs who need a degree higher than GED´s

So no it´s not all about "people wanting to get something for free"

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Xabiss

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#109  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@Xabiss said:

Its funny because now the majority of people who want an education can get and and get it for free. All you have to do is put a little effort into it and it really is not that hard. If you are poor grants and student aide will take care of the majority of your tuition cost. It's just most people are to damn lazy to do even that. They just want it for free with no effort put into it. So just stop it with the BS you all are spewing.

BTW. This is coming from someone who came for a single mother home where my Mom was making less then 20K a year cleaning houses. I was the first person in my family to not only graduate HS, but went on to get an associates degree at a trade school. I went out from there to get a job and now have two bachelor degrees and two master degrees. So I know from first hand experience you can do it. People today are just to damn lazy and just want handouts with no effort period!

You make it out to be far easier than it is, also putting yourself into debt is not the answer, as a society, we will be paid back 100 fold if we have a well-educated workforce and especially a younger generation who can fill the growing number of jobs who need a degree higher than GED´s

So no it´s not all about "people wanting to get something for free"

Again you are full of it. It is pretty damn easy to do and do it without much debt if you work hard so stop it. People today are just to damn lazy to do it and work hard for it. Hell my brother is doing it right now and getting his masters degree all for free. He just joined the Army to get it done. There are ways to do it you just have to work for it. I know what a concept that if you work hard you can accomplish anything. I know that is a hard concept for most liberals to understand. They would rather juts give out free handouts without any work involved.

BTW my brother didn't graduate HS and got his GED. So it can be done so quit with the BS!

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Jacanuk

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#110  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19042 Posts
@Xabiss said:

Again you are full of it. It is pretty damn easy to do and do it without much debt if you work hard so stop it. People today are just to damn lazy to do it and work hard for it. Hell my brother is doing it right now and getting his masters degree all for free. He just joined the Army to get it done. There are ways to do it you just have to work for it. I know what a concept that if you work hard you can accomplish anything. I know that is a hard concept for most liberals to understand. They would rather juts give out free handouts without any work involved.

BTW my brother didn't graduate HS and got his GED. So it can be done so quit with the BS!

Not sure which country you live in, but either you are not american or you are clearly not aware of just how bad the student debt is

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/the-student-loan-debt-crisis-is-about-to-get-worse

So no it´s not easy to get through college/university without debt, and that is even if you work a part-time job next to your studies.

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LJS9502_basic

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#111 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167388 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@Jacanuk said:

Spot on Horgen

It´s funny that America does not see the writing on the wall and make it a lot easier for people to get a good education, and here we are talking proper education, not Social Justice 101 or South African women movement studies, but courses that are beneficial to the society as a whole and which will be in higher and higher demand as we move into the new technological wave of automation.

Its funny because now the majority of people who want an education can get and and get it for free. All you have to do is put a little effort into it and it really is not that hard. If you are poor grants and student aide will take care of the majority of your tuition cost. It's just most people are to damn lazy to do even that. They just want it for free with no effort put into it. So just stop it with the BS you all are spewing.

BTW. This is coming from someone who came for a single mother home where my Mom was making less then 20K a year cleaning houses. I was the first person in my family to not only graduate HS, but went on to get an associates degree at a trade school. I went out from there to get a job and now have two bachelor degrees and two master degrees. So I know from first hand experience you can do it. People today are just to damn lazy and just want handouts with no effort period!

Ridiculous. Always love when people use their own anecdotal evidence as it's facts. Most people don't qualify for free education. And it's hard on working families to have discretionary income for college for one child.......let alone multiple children. Also getting into debt is not the best way to start out in life. Less debt is better.

Sprain your wrist patting yourself on the back?

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Xabiss

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#112 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@Xabiss said:

Again you are full of it. It is pretty damn easy to do and do it without much debt if you work hard so stop it. People today are just to damn lazy to do it and work hard for it. Hell my brother is doing it right now and getting his masters degree all for free. He just joined the Army to get it done. There are ways to do it you just have to work for it. I know what a concept that if you work hard you can accomplish anything. I know that is a hard concept for most liberals to understand. They would rather juts give out free handouts without any work involved.

BTW my brother didn't graduate HS and got his GED. So it can be done so quit with the BS!

Not sure which country you live in, but either you are not american or you are clearly not aware of just how bad the student debt is

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/the-student-loan-debt-crisis-is-about-to-get-worse

So no it´s not easy to get through college/university without debt, and that is even if you work a part-time job next to your studies.

I am from America and that debt is the fault of the borrower period. I have a few student loans that I took out and I pay on them monthly no issue at all. I just subtract it from my check, the very first bill I pay each month, and think that life is still better with the money I have left over. Also my wife and I didn't just start popping out kids left and right out of school because we knew we needed to take care of other things first. My brother did it the correct way and did it through the Army and has no debt at all. See again it is all about working hard and knowing you finances. A lot of people who owe on student loans could pay them they just choose to default on them. There are a ton of programs that if you don't make enough you pay very little in. Again this all takes effort on the borrower and learning about programs that are out there to help you. Again people just like handouts without working for it.

There is no excuse not to be successful in this country. You just have to work hard and do the right thing. If I can do it, anyone can. All you have to do is educate yourself, work hard, and know/understand your finances.

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Xabiss

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#113  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jacanuk said:

Spot on Horgen

It´s funny that America does not see the writing on the wall and make it a lot easier for people to get a good education, and here we are talking proper education, not Social Justice 101 or South African women movement studies, but courses that are beneficial to the society as a whole and which will be in higher and higher demand as we move into the new technological wave of automation.

Its funny because now the majority of people who want an education can get and and get it for free. All you have to do is put a little effort into it and it really is not that hard. If you are poor grants and student aide will take care of the majority of your tuition cost. It's just most people are to damn lazy to do even that. They just want it for free with no effort put into it. So just stop it with the BS you all are spewing.

BTW. This is coming from someone who came for a single mother home where my Mom was making less then 20K a year cleaning houses. I was the first person in my family to not only graduate HS, but went on to get an associates degree at a trade school. I went out from there to get a job and now have two bachelor degrees and two master degrees. So I know from first hand experience you can do it. People today are just to damn lazy and just want handouts with no effort period!

Ridiculous. Always love when people use their own anecdotal evidence as it's facts. Most people don't qualify for free education. And it's hard on working families to have discretionary income for college for one child.......let alone multiple children. Also getting into debt is not the best way to start out in life. Less debt is better.

Sprain your wrist patting yourself on the back?

BTW I didn't receive much government assistance. It can be done, you just can't be lazy. I worked a full-time job as I went to school full-time. I took out loans when I needed to and didn't have any children until I could afford it. So that is no damn excuse either!

The main issue all of you have is you don't want to work for it and you want to government to give it to you for free period! That is really sad if you ask me and I am happy were I am at today because I worked hard to get it. So keep making up excuses why you can't do something because that is the reason you are in the position you are in today.

Also I will pat myself on my back, you know why? I came from the poorest of poor families and I am making it. So yeah I am sorry for being proud of that fact!

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LJS9502_basic

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#114 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167388 Posts

@Xabiss said:

BTW I didn't receive much government assistance. It can be done, you just can't be lazy. I worked a full-time job as I went to school full-time. I took out loans when I needed to and didn't have any children until I could afford it. So that is no damn excuse either!

The main issue all of you have is you don't want to work for it and you want to government to give it to you for free period! That is really sad if you ask me and I am happy were I am at today because I worked hard to get it. So keep making up excuses why you can't do something because that is the reason you are in the position you are in today.

Also I will pat myself on my back, you know why? I came from the poorest of poor families and I am making it. So yeah I am sorry for being proud of that fact!

Anecdotal evidence is NOT good evidence. Period.

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Xabiss

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#115  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Xabiss said:

BTW I didn't receive much government assistance. It can be done, you just can't be lazy. I worked a full-time job as I went to school full-time. I took out loans when I needed to and didn't have any children until I could afford it. So that is no damn excuse either!

The main issue all of you have is you don't want to work for it and you want to government to give it to you for free period! That is really sad if you ask me and I am happy were I am at today because I worked hard to get it. So keep making up excuses why you can't do something because that is the reason you are in the position you are in today.

Also I will pat myself on my back, you know why? I came from the poorest of poor families and I am making it. So yeah I am sorry for being proud of that fact!

Anecdotal evidence is NOT good evidence. Period.

No it is pretty damn good evidence. Because if I can do it anyone can. Quit being lazy, get off your ass, work hard, and anyone can do it period! Quit making up excuses, looking for handouts, and just do it! The only one stopping your success is you!

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Jacanuk

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#116 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19042 Posts
@Xabiss said:
@Jacanuk said:
@Xabiss said:

Again you are full of it. It is pretty damn easy to do and do it without much debt if you work hard so stop it. People today are just to damn lazy to do it and work hard for it. Hell my brother is doing it right now and getting his masters degree all for free. He just joined the Army to get it done. There are ways to do it you just have to work for it. I know what a concept that if you work hard you can accomplish anything. I know that is a hard concept for most liberals to understand. They would rather juts give out free handouts without any work involved.

BTW my brother didn't graduate HS and got his GED. So it can be done so quit with the BS!

Not sure which country you live in, but either you are not american or you are clearly not aware of just how bad the student debt is

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/the-student-loan-debt-crisis-is-about-to-get-worse

So no it´s not easy to get through college/university without debt, and that is even if you work a part-time job next to your studies.

I am from America and that debt is the fault of the borrower period. I have a few student loans that I took out and I pay on them monthly no issue at all. I just subtract it from my check, the very first bill I pay each month, and think that life is still better with the money I have left over. Also my wife and I didn't just start popping out kids left and right out of school because we knew we needed to take care of other things first. My brother did it the correct way and did it through the Army and has no debt at all. See again it is all about working hard and knowing you finances. A lot of people who owe on student loans could pay them they just choose to default on them. There are a ton of programs that if you don't make enough you pay very little in. Again this all takes effort on the borrower and learning about programs that are out there to help you. Again people just like handouts without working for it.

There is no excuse not to be successful in this country. You just have to work hard and do the right thing. If I can do it, anyone can. All you have to do is educate yourself, work hard, and know/understand your finances.

Ok, well then you should know how the system works and again it´s not so easy. Just because it was easy for you to get your education without going into debt. But not everyone is that lucky, I myself was lucky to have good parents who could pay my way but that did not make me blind to the fellow students who are next to me in class and lectures who struggle even with part-time jobs and the only other way is to have a full-time job and do part-time studies, which usually ends up with a bigger drop-out rate than if you do it the normal way.

And it´s not because people are lazy, it´s because of various reasons where not all are the same. And also your personal situation is yours and has zero relevance as to the major problem we are faced with in the US. It´s almost like saying that because someone can walk around with a broken leg, you should not seek medical help if you break a leg.

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Xabiss

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#117 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jacanuk said:
@Xabiss said:

Again you are full of it. It is pretty damn easy to do and do it without much debt if you work hard so stop it. People today are just to damn lazy to do it and work hard for it. Hell my brother is doing it right now and getting his masters degree all for free. He just joined the Army to get it done. There are ways to do it you just have to work for it. I know what a concept that if you work hard you can accomplish anything. I know that is a hard concept for most liberals to understand. They would rather juts give out free handouts without any work involved.

BTW my brother didn't graduate HS and got his GED. So it can be done so quit with the BS!

Not sure which country you live in, but either you are not american or you are clearly not aware of just how bad the student debt is

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/the-student-loan-debt-crisis-is-about-to-get-worse

So no it´s not easy to get through college/university without debt, and that is even if you work a part-time job next to your studies.

I am from America and that debt is the fault of the borrower period. I have a few student loans that I took out and I pay on them monthly no issue at all. I just subtract it from my check, the very first bill I pay each month, and think that life is still better with the money I have left over. Also my wife and I didn't just start popping out kids left and right out of school because we knew we needed to take care of other things first. My brother did it the correct way and did it through the Army and has no debt at all. See again it is all about working hard and knowing you finances. A lot of people who owe on student loans could pay them they just choose to default on them. There are a ton of programs that if you don't make enough you pay very little in. Again this all takes effort on the borrower and learning about programs that are out there to help you. Again people just like handouts without working for it.

There is no excuse not to be successful in this country. You just have to work hard and do the right thing. If I can do it, anyone can. All you have to do is educate yourself, work hard, and know/understand your finances.

Ok, well then you should know how the system works and again it´s not so easy. Just because it was easy for you to get your education without going into debt. But not everyone is that lucky, I myself was lucky to have good parents who could pay my way but that did not make me blind to the fellow students who are next to me in class and lectures who struggle even with part-time jobs and the only other way is to have a full-time job and do part-time studies, which usually ends up with a bigger drop-out rate than if you do it the normal way.

And it´s not because people are lazy, it´s because of various reasons where not all are the same. And also your personal situation is yours and has zero relevance as to the major problem we are faced with in the US. It´s almost like saying that because someone can walk around with a broken leg, you should not seek medical help if you break a leg.

I also went to class and had the same classmates. Sorry the majority of them were lazy as shit and just wanted handouts. Also I paid for the majority of my college from a full-time job and student loans. Sorry it can be done you just have to work hard and focus on the objective period. Also don't start having kids so damn early. This is so damn easy to prevent!

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LJS9502_basic

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#118 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167388 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Anecdotal evidence is NOT good evidence. Period.

No it is pretty damn good evidence. Because if I can do it anyone can. Quit being lazy, get off your ass, work hard, and anyone can do it period! Quit making up excuses, looking for handouts, and just do it! The only one stopping your success is you!

I have a college degree. I put myself through college after serving in the Army. Stop lecturing me. You cannot use your anecdotal evidence to say everyone can do what you did. Each situation is unique. Sounds more like you are too selfish to want to help other achieve an education.

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Xabiss

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#119 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Xabiss said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Anecdotal evidence is NOT good evidence. Period.

No it is pretty damn good evidence. Because if I can do it anyone can. Quit being lazy, get off your ass, work hard, and anyone can do it period! Quit making up excuses, looking for handouts, and just do it! The only one stopping your success is you!

I have a college degree. I put myself through college after serving in the Army. Stop lecturing me. You cannot use your anecdotal evidence to say everyone can do what you did. Each situation is unique. Sounds more like you are too selfish to want to help other achieve an education.

No I just understand that TANSTAAFL and there are plenty of ways to get educated if you put some time and effort into it. Thank you for your service BTW! Just another great way for people to get there education. Sorry I just don't like handouts, people don't appreciate it when it is just given to them.

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Jacanuk

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#120 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19042 Posts
@Xabiss said:

I also went to class and had the same classmates. Sorry the majority of them were lazy as shit and just wanted handouts. Also I paid for the majority of my college from a full-time job and student loans. Sorry it can be done you just have to work hard and focus on the objective period. Also don't start having kids so damn early. This is so damn easy to prevent!

Sounds like you are about to spring the good old "Get off my lawn you lazy kids" :)

But you do realise that having people educated actually benefits you as well? It means more tax income and people having a better chance of getting those well-paying jobs. Which in turn means people are able to buy luxury items and that again benefits society as a whole.

So while you may be right that Generation Z is lazy selfie-taking kids who should learn what hard work is, it does not help to have them in debt or uneducated And remember we are talking proper educations, not Social studies or Native American repatriation studies.

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sakaiXx

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#121 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 6211 Posts

I could never understand this. People in europe had this amenities for years and shockingly, I was in South East Asia and they there also have free education till high school and heavily subsidized higher education. Everyone can enjoy schooling and not to mention free healthcare too!

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shellcase86

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#122 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 4545 Posts

You're confusing compulsory and voluntary education.

@CreasianDevaili said:

Healthcare set aside for now, what is the actual worth of free college? Wouldn't it just fall to the same issues we have from public education already, High School?

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#123 Horgen  Moderator
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@sakaixx said:

I could never understand this. People in europe had this amenities for years and shockingly, I was in South East Asia and they there also have free education till high school and heavily subsidized higher education. Everyone can enjoy schooling and not to mention free healthcare too!

Europe is just Soviet light, didn't you know? :P

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#125  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@qx0d said:

If taxes go to different things, like welfare programs and the military, what's the reason U.S. politicians don't have taxes pay for Americans' healthcare and college?

No one should have to pay for healthcare. No one should have to pay for college (funny how high school is free, but not college).

Is there a reason why taxpayers aren't funding free healthcare and free college for Americans? If it's possible to do this, why do politicians not make it reality?

For "per capita", there's plenty of money in the US health system.

Notice US's Administrative Efficiency ranked near the bottom.

Nordic and CANZUK(1) countries has superior Administrative Efficiency.

1.Australia, United Kingdom, New Zealand and Canada. Remember, Australia's economic and population size rivals the entire Nordic countries. CANZUK refers to a movement to group British Commonwealth OECD countries.

I have knowledge on Australia's single payer universal health care and private insurance dual systems.

-------------

US Education sector

Run away Education sector's money grab. Very powerful unions and profit driven governance.

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#126 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22417 Posts

"Put no faith in phrase-mongering, it is better to see who stands to gain."

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#127 NattyDaddy604
Member since 2019 • 304 Posts

@Xabiss said:

Healthcare is one thing, but college? Why does everything have to be free in life. I mean that is all I hear is free but trust me someone pays for it. So technically none of this shit is free! So please stop with the free shit.

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

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#128 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@nattydaddy604 said:
@Xabiss said:

Healthcare is one thing, but college? Why does everything have to be free in life. I mean that is all I hear is free but trust me someone pays for it. So technically none of this shit is free! So please stop with the free shit.

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

Meanwhile,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/30/blue-states-already-subsidize-red-states-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8e10b0502664

Blue states already subsidize red states. Now red states want even more.

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#129 NattyDaddy604
Member since 2019 • 304 Posts

@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@Xabiss said:

Healthcare is one thing, but college? Why does everything have to be free in life. I mean that is all I hear is free but trust me someone pays for it. So technically none of this shit is free! So please stop with the free shit.

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

Meanwhile,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/30/blue-states-already-subsidize-red-states-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8e10b0502664

Blue states already subsidize red states. Now red states want even more.

1. Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts. So I don't care about either of them. Call me when they talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes, or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes.
2. Red or Blue States should not receive federal funding, abolish it immediately

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#130 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@nattydaddy604 said:
@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@Xabiss said:

Healthcare is one thing, but college? Why does everything have to be free in life. I mean that is all I hear is free but trust me someone pays for it. So technically none of this shit is free! So please stop with the free shit.

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

Meanwhile,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/30/blue-states-already-subsidize-red-states-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8e10b0502664

Blue states already subsidize red states. Now red states want even more.

1. Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts. So I don't care about either of them. Call me when they talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes, or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes.

2. Red or Blue States should not receive federal funding, abolish it immediately

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#131 mattbbpl  Online
Member since 2006 • 17529 Posts

It's always Republicans who claim that both parties are the same and out rob you. I wonder why?

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#132  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@Xabiss said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

Meanwhile,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/30/blue-states-already-subsidize-red-states-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8e10b0502664

Blue states already subsidize red states. Now red states want even more.

1. Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts. So I don't care about either of them. Call me when they talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes, or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes.

2. Red or Blue States should not receive federal funding, abolish it immediately

"Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts."

One second late,

"talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes"

lol.

Oh and,

"or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes."

More hard right theory. Citation?

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#133 NattyDaddy604
Member since 2019 • 304 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

Because Millennial's and the previous generation are a bunch of entitled children who think EVERYTHING is a human right, but lack a hint of personal and collective responsibility.

Meanwhile,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/30/blue-states-already-subsidize-red-states-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8e10b0502664

Blue states already subsidize red states. Now red states want even more.

1. Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts. So I don't care about either of them. Call me when they talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes, or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes.

2. Red or Blue States should not receive federal funding, abolish it immediately

"Republicans and Democrats do not serve the American public. They serve corporate and foreign interest firsts."

One second late,

"talk about deregulating the market, removing corporate/income taxes"

lol.

Oh and,

"or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes."

More hard right theory. Citation?

"lol."
Good rebuttal, really demonstrating your high IQ

"More hard right theory. Citation?"

Vast majority of non-whites vote for the democratic party
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

In 2016, Europeans made up 16% of immigrants, whereas non Europeans made up the rest.
https://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/09/14/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/#fb-key-charts-origin

And you ask why the left is protecting so many illegal immigrants, who the vast majority are south of the border.

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#134  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@nattydaddy604 said:

"lol."

Good rebuttal, really demonstrating your high IQ

The guy who tried to justify the right-wing Christchurch Terrorist is attacking my IQ, lmao. Nice ad-hom, but It's not my fault you didn't get the point of the "lol". You should read what I wrote before it next time, or perhaps read it harder. I demonstrated you contradicting yourself in the same exact paragraph. On one hand you cry about corporate interests, then you call for hard right corporate interest policy.

@nattydaddy604 said:

"

"More hard right theory. Citation?"

Vast majority of non-whites vote for the democratic party

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

In 2016, Europeans made up 16% of immigrants, whereas non Europeans made up the rest.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/09/14/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/#fb-key-charts-origin

And you ask why the left is protecting so many illegal immigrants, who the vast majority are south of the border.

Red-Herrings. Neither of these links state the specific reason for a pro-immigration stance is solely for voters. It just shows Immigrants prefer (D) policy.

You're making that part up.

"or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes."

Be specific, which flow is currently being used for votes and how many votes and in what state/county? Does this tie in with the failed conspiracy theory that Hillary only won the popular vote due to Illegals who can't even vote in CA?

Is there actual evidence showing Democrats stating they want immigration for more votes?

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#135 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

"lol."

Good rebuttal, really demonstrating your high IQ

The guy who tried to justify the right-wing Christchurch Terrorist is attacking my IQ, lmao. Nice ad-hom, but It's not my fault you didn't get the point of the "lol". You should read what I wrote before it next time, or perhaps read it harder. I demonstrated you contradicting yourself in the same exact paragraph. On one hand you cry about corporate interests, then you call for hard right corporate interest policy.

@nattydaddy604 said:

"

"More hard right theory. Citation?"

Vast majority of non-whites vote for the democratic party

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

In 2016, Europeans made up 16% of immigrants, whereas non Europeans made up the rest.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/09/14/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/#fb-key-charts-origin

And you ask why the left is protecting so many illegal immigrants, who the vast majority are south of the border.

Red-Herrings. Neither of these links state the specific reason for a pro-immigration stance is solely for voters. It just shows Immigrants prefer (D) policy.

You're making that part up.

"or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes."

Be specific, which flow is currently being used for votes and how many votes and in what state/county? Does this tie in with the failed conspiracy theory that Hillary only won the popular vote due to Illegals who can't even vote in CA?

Is there actual evidence showing Democrats stating they want immigration for more votes?

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

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#136  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our argument. We were particularly discussing public votes.

He is falsely suggesting legal immigration is solely predicated on wanting more votes. This is silly.

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#137 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our argument. We were particularly discussing public votes.

He is falsely suggesting legal immigration is solely predicated on wanting more votes. This is silly.

US has 3rd world/backwards vote checks process.

Loading Video...

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#138  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our argument. We were particularly discussing public votes.

He is falsely suggesting legal immigration is solely predicated on wanting more votes. This is silly.

US has 3rd world/backwards vote checks process.

Fine, lets go off-topic.

1. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent. It's so infinitesimally small and rare that it has no effect. Hillary did not win the PV due to illegals, that's a conspiracy lie.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

2. The EC, Voter Suppression, and Gerrymandering are real. (R) need it to win since they are less popular.

3. Republicans lose popular votes across the board because they are less popular and their policies are less popular. It has a dying demographic.

4. Most Americans want PV over EC.

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#139  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our argument. We were particularly discussing public votes.

He is falsely suggesting legal immigration is solely predicated on wanting more votes. This is silly.

US has 3rd world/backwards vote checks process.

Fine, lets go off-topic.

1. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent. It's so infinitesimally small and rare that it has no effect. Hillary did not win the PV due to illegals, that's a conspiracy lie.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

2. The EC, Voter Suppression, and Gerrymandering are real. (R) need it to win since they are less popular.

3. Republicans lose popular votes across the board because they are less popular and their policies are less popular. It has a dying demographic.

4. Most Americans want PV over EC.

1. Your links doesn't factor in Project Veritas's investigation.

2. Voter Suppression is based on the assumption that minorities are stupid, Mandatory vote during the weekends should solve this.

3. The federal popular votes between Trump and Hillary are close i.e. only 2.87 million more votes difference which are mostly in Cali and NY states.

4. Election College is a condition for smaller states to join the union i.e. learn the reasons for British Empire's collapse e.g. Canada, Australia and New Zealand breaking away from UK, but willing to work with a new CANZUK structure. Like any empire with multiple member states, US not immune to union collapse.

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#140 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

This has absolutely nothing to do with our argument. We were particularly discussing public votes.

He is falsely suggesting legal immigration is solely predicated on wanting more votes. This is silly.

US has 3rd world/backwards vote checks process.

Fine, lets go off-topic.

1. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent. It's so infinitesimally small and rare that it has no effect. Hillary did not win the PV due to illegals, that's a conspiracy lie.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

2. The EC, Voter Suppression, and Gerrymandering are real. (R) need it to win since they are less popular.

3. Republicans lose popular votes across the board because they are less popular and their policies are less popular. It has a dying demographic.

4. Most Americans want PV over EC.

1. Your links doesn't factor in Project Veritas's investigation.

2. Voter Suppression is based on the assumption that minorities are stupid, Mandatory vote during the weekends should solve this.

3. The federal popular votes between Trump and Hillary are close i.e. only 2.87 million more votes difference which are mostly in Cali and NY states.

4. Election College is a condition for smaller states to join the union i.e. learn the reasons for British Empire's collapse e.g. Canada, Australia and New Zealand breaking away from UK, but willing to work with a new CANZUK structure.

1. Yes it does. Project Veritas (which isn't as good as citation as the studies and court cases I linked.) showed the "Rare" and "infinitesimally small" portion of my statement.

2. Voter Suppression is real and is more aimed at their lack of money and time, rather than stupidity. Your opinion on it is irrelevant. Voting during weekends would certainly help. (Speaking of stupidity, Red states and Trump voters have piss poor education scores).

3. CA and NY are parts of USA. Democrats are more popular.

4. I'm aware why the poor EC is used. I'm just telling you most Americans prefer the PV, and that Dems are more popular in all major facets.

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#141  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

US has 3rd world/backwards vote checks process.

Fine, lets go off-topic.

1. Voter Fraud is nearly non existent. It's so infinitesimally small and rare that it has no effect. Hillary did not win the PV due to illegals, that's a conspiracy lie.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

2. The EC, Voter Suppression, and Gerrymandering are real. (R) need it to win since they are less popular.

3. Republicans lose popular votes across the board because they are less popular and their policies are less popular. It has a dying demographic.

4. Most Americans want PV over EC.

1. Your links doesn't factor in Project Veritas's investigation.

2. Voter Suppression is based on the assumption that minorities are stupid, Mandatory vote during the weekends should solve this.

3. The federal popular votes between Trump and Hillary are close i.e. only 2.87 million more votes difference which are mostly in Cali and NY states.

4. Election College is a condition for smaller states to join the union i.e. learn the reasons for British Empire's collapse e.g. Canada, Australia and New Zealand breaking away from UK, but willing to work with a new CANZUK structure.

1. Yes it does. Project Veritas (which isn't as good as citation as the studies and court cases I linked.) showed the "Rare" and "infinitesimally small" portion of my statement.

2. Voter Suppression is real and is more aimed at their lack of money and time, rather than stupidity. Your opinion on it is irrelevant. Voting during weekends would certainly help. (Speaking of stupidity, Red states and Trump voters have piss poor education scores).

3. CA and NY are parts of USA. Democrats are more popular.

4. I'm aware why the poor EC is used. I'm just telling you most Americans prefer the PV, and that Dems are more popular in all major facets.

1. System must be built to reduce voter fraud and question on voter fraud shouldn't exist.

2. My opinion is based on Australian experience. Many services needs ID of some kind e.g. vehicle driver's license, age ID cards, passport and 'etc'.

Money is not a problem with nanny state style vote support .

Time is not an issue when elections are held during weekends.

Election College = winning the popular vote for each state.

Trump / PenceRepublican50 + DC538100%62,984,82846.09%
Clinton / KaineDemocratic50 + DC538100%65,853,51448.18%
Johnson / WeldLibertarian50 + DC538100%4,489,3413.28%
Stein / BarakaGreen44 + DC48089%1,457,2181.07%

Libertarian party has votes flowing from Republican who didn't like Trump.

Preferential right wing combined: 67,474,169

Preferential left wing combined: 67,310,732

Preferential voting system would yield two party preferred outcome i.e. no votes will be wasted on minor parties.

Australian system (1901) was setup after learning the US system flaws. US main advantage over Australia is US's larger population size i.e. 328 million vs 25 million.

UK is changing to Australian federation style system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolved_English_parliament Changing UK into federation.

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#142 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167388 Posts

@ronvalencia said:

Federal popular vote argument is irreverent since US election college system works with state level popular vote. US is composed of 50 member states i.e. EU is not the first European super state.

It's not irrelevant and the votes are disproportionate to population. Therefore popular vote is not used but should be.

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#143 Celsius765
Member since 2005 • 2415 Posts

@Xabiss: them and you if you decide to go to college.

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#144  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@qx0d:

https://truepundit.com/white-house-and-nancy-pelosi-test-out-partnership-to-fight-high-drug-prices/

White House And Nancy Pelosi Test Out Partnership To Fight High Drug Prices

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/26/trump-and-pelosi-teams-in-early-talks-about-drug-price-legislation.html

Both Trump and Pelosi teams up on reducing the drug prices.

The Trump administration is in early talks with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s staff about legislation to lower prescription drug costs, a White House official tells CNBC.

Recall http://theconversation.com/why-biologics-were-such-a-big-deal-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-48595

Australia has single out US "data-exclusivity-medications" condition as the killer to their universal health care system.

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#145  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 28255 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@Jacanuk said:

You mean the NHS is average for a majority of the population providing average care which often means doctors don´t have the best options available to them because of cost.

In the US you can get the best care money can buy and if you have the cash why not get it.

Most people don't have the cash to afford the best healthcare. So the point still stands that US-style healthcare is only more beneficial for a minority of the population, whereas UK-style NHS healthcare is more beneficial for the majority of the population.

Nevertheless, the UK does also have optional private healthcare alongside the NHS. So both public and private healthcare systems can co-exist.

Australia also has duel single payer and private healthcare systems.

UK spends more than 2 percent of GDP on defence

Australia spends about 2 percent of GDP on defence

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#146 NattyDaddy604
Member since 2019 • 304 Posts

@zaryia said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

"lol."

Good rebuttal, really demonstrating your high IQ

The guy who tried to justify the right-wing Christchurch Terrorist is attacking my IQ, lmao. Nice ad-hom, but It's not my fault you didn't get the point of the "lol". You should read what I wrote before it next time, or perhaps read it harder. I demonstrated you contradicting yourself in the same exact paragraph. On one hand you cry about corporate interests, then you call for hard right corporate interest policy.

@nattydaddy604 said:

"

"More hard right theory. Citation?"

Vast majority of non-whites vote for the democratic party

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

In 2016, Europeans made up 16% of immigrants, whereas non Europeans made up the rest.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/09/14/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/#fb-key-charts-origin

And you ask why the left is protecting so many illegal immigrants, who the vast majority are south of the border.

Red-Herrings. Neither of these links state the specific reason for a pro-immigration stance is solely for voters. It just shows Immigrants prefer (D) policy.

You're making that part up.

"or stopping the flow of immigrants who are used for votes."

Be specific, which flow is currently being used for votes and how many votes and in what state/county? Does this tie in with the failed conspiracy theory that Hillary only won the popular vote due to Illegals who can't even vote in CA?

Is there actual evidence showing Democrats stating they want immigration for more votes?

What I said about the NZ attack is that it is not surprising and listed my said reasons. You are ok with islamic immigration, so is it fair to say that you are trying to justify Islamic terrorism?

Calling for cutting income/corporate taxes and removing regulations doesn't support big corporations. It's the opposite. Minimum wage never helps the bottom class. It makes it hard for startups to hire employees, whereas big corporations can afford it, or will just replace it with automation.

Except there not red herrings. What politician is going to ever say "we need to bring in Latin Americans so they can vote for us". Programs calling for open borders (which "separated" illegal families), DACA, and minimizing Voter ID Laws all help a certain demographic. No shit they prefer Democrat policies. One supports illegals, the other doesn't. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out. But let me guess! You want "hard proof" demonstrating this lmao.

If you want to have an actual debate about this, you can message me privately and I'll give you my discord info. But as usual, I expect you won't since you tuck your tail in between your legs in the previous offers. Stick to gamespot politics keyboard warrior, you love your echo chamber far too much.

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Zaryia

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#147  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9882 Posts
@nattydaddy604 said:

What I said about the NZ attack is that it is not surprising and listed my said reasons.

Stop. Defending a terrorist is surprising in any situation.

In the United States, right-wing violence is on the rise

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html

@nattydaddy604 said:

Except there not red herrings. What politician is going to ever say "we need to bring in Latin Americans so they can vote for us". Programs calling for open borders (which "separated" illegal families), DACA, and minimizing Voter ID Laws all help a certain demographic. No shit they prefer Democrat policies. One supports illegals, the other doesn't. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out. But let me guess! You want "hard proof" demonstrating this lmao.

1. I knew it. You can't provide evidence. I thought as much, this is why you lose all of these debates.

2. Siding with DACA/Dreamers is not for the illegal vote. It's for the general public vote, a vast majority Americans support DACA and/or Dreamers.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/politics/cnn-poll-immigration-daca-trump/index.html

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/369487-poll-nearly-nine-in-10-favor-allowing-daca-recipients-to-stay

(70-90! OF AMERICANS)

Welcome to politics. In certain situations, appealing to the vast majority of the public is how you win. This is how the Dems won the House in 2018 by using Healthcare, which a vast majority of Americans agree with left wing policy on.

3. They want to "minimize voter ID" because Voter Suppression is more problematic than Voter Fraud. Multiple studies prove this fact.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

This Is the Worst Voter Suppression We’ve Seen in the Modern Era

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/worst-voter-suppression-weve-seen-modern-era

4. Not many Dems called for full open borders. You're conflating not wanting the wall with open borders. Hence paying 1.3Billion for border security. Also, going back to point #2, most Americans don't want the wall and even more didn't want the emergency.

"69%oppose Trump emergency declaration to build wall"

"60% oppose significant new construction on border walls"

You are correct. They also do this policy for more votes, as polls show this policy is more popular. But American votes, mostly. Not illegals or fresh immigrants.

@nattydaddy604 said:

If you want to have an actual debate about this,

We just did, and you lost. Why make it private?

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#148  Edited By deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

College is more demanding and affords much greater flexibility. I don't believe that making it free is a good idea. Plenty of people go to college just to screw around and drop out. Plenty also get a degree that they have no idea what to do with. This would all be a massive waste of resources. It should be your responsibility to get yourself educated and if you wish to get yourself educated but you're struggling, then have more support programs for them (based off merit).

I don't know about the United states education system but I just oppose the idea of free education.

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NattyDaddy604

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#149 NattyDaddy604
Member since 2019 • 304 Posts

@zaryia: "Stop. Defending a terrorist is surprising in any situation." You're a coward bud. Never have I said that what he was doing was OK. Never have I tried protecting the shooters actions. I have condemned his actions multiple times. Quit putting words in my mouth.
You want Islamic people to enter America, so therefore, you want Islamic terrorism. Got it.

As for the rest of your stats, I can see you are 1 of 4 who still blindly believe the media
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/02/poll-fake-news-494421

I'll take the rest of your "sources" with a grain of salt

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#150  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@nattydaddy604 said:

@zaryia: "Stop. Defending a terrorist is surprising in any situation." You're a coward bud. Never have I said that what he was doing was OK. Never have I tried protecting the shooters actions. I have condemned his actions multiple times. Quit putting words in my mouth.

You want Islamic people to enter America, so therefore, you want Islamic terrorism. Got it.

As for the rest of your stats, I can see you are 1 of 4 who still blindly believe the media

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/02/poll-fake-news-494421

I'll take the rest of your "sources" with a grain of salt

You notice his source Brennancenter.org, well this is super important information he left out:

The Brennan Center is headquartered in New York and the board is co-chaired by Robert A. Atkins and Patricia Bauman. Michael Waldman , a former speechwriter/assistant to President Bill Clinton is the president of the Brennan Center for Justice.

Hmmm I wonder which way they lean with there views. ROFL. I love how liberals only use left leaning publications and try to use them as facts! He also used the Washington Post enough said!