Why doesn't the U.S. have free, taxpayer-funded healthcare and college?

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Avatar image for Treflis
#51 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@qx0d said:
@Treflis said:
it goes against the mindset that " Everybody is responsible for their own gains in life and if they can't then it sucks to be them"

And yet we have welfare programs.

Well nobody is saying you haven't made progress, but you aren't exactly jumping for joy when you learn that your taxes is going to provide medical care for unfortunate individuals with medical conditions that may or may not be related to a potential abuse of some sort of substance.
Such as when Medicaid program was announced.

Avatar image for JimB
#52 Edited by JimB (2415 posts) -

The Quality of the items in the cartoon just happen to suck today. What started out as good idea are nothing but problems with a high price tag with little return.

@mattbbpl said:

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#53 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

Conservatives cry about feeding poor children and helping the disabled and you want them to help everyone? LMAO

Avatar image for jeezers
#54 Posted by jeezers (2432 posts) -

We have way to many welfare queens in our country for it to not bankrupt us

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#55 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@jeezers said:

We have way to many welfare queens in our country for it to not bankrupt us

Corporate welfare dwarfs personal welfare.............

Avatar image for jeezers
#56 Posted by jeezers (2432 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

We have way to many welfare queens in our country for it to not bankrupt us

Corporate welfare dwarfs personal welfare.............

whats your point?

Does that somehow mean it wont bankrupt us?

are you implying we tax all corporations for the "free" healthcare?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#57 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@jeezers said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

We have way to many welfare queens in our country for it to not bankrupt us

Corporate welfare dwarfs personal welfare.............

whats your point?

Does that somehow mean it wont bankrupt us?

are you implying we tax all corporations for the "free" healthcare?

Are you implying corporations shouldn't pay tax?

Avatar image for comp_atkins
#58 Posted by comp_atkins (35508 posts) -
@JimB said:

The Quality of the items in the cartoon just happen to suck today. What started out as good idea are nothing but problems with a high price tag with little return.

@mattbbpl said:

ITT

a person made the statement that public highways and schools have "little return"

that just happened.

Avatar image for Solaryellow
#59 Posted by Solaryellow (4735 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

@Solaryellow: Talk to your knuckle dragging GOP representatives who continually underfund everything. Their anti-government ideology has been self destructive for decades, and to point to its effects now as evidence that government is bad is laughably disingenuous.

The GOP is at fault for our terrible infrastructure and where we stand among the world in terms of public education? If you are going to use these as examples of something positive operated by the government, I'd expect them to be top notch.

Avatar image for horgen
#60 Posted by Horgen (119934 posts) -

@Solaryellow said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Solaryellow: Talk to your knuckle dragging GOP representatives who continually underfund everything. Their anti-government ideology has been self destructive for decades, and to point to its effects now as evidence that government is bad is laughably disingenuous.

The GOP is at fault for our terrible infrastructure and where we stand among the world in terms of public education? If you are going to use these as examples of something positive operated by the government, I'd expect them to be top notch.

Something positive if done right. The GOP has no intention of doing it right in order to prove that the government can't do it.

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#61 Posted by sonicare (56546 posts) -

"Free taxypayer funded" is an oxymoron.

I have no problem with subsidized healthcare and education if it is done right. Some candidates have proposed the government paying the lion's share of college education costs, but unless they do something to control the costs, I only see that action causing colleges costs to further skyrocket.

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#62 Posted by Sevenizz (3387 posts) -

Someone really needs to explain to me why I should pay for your healthcare - and why you should pay for mine. Especially a less quality government run system.

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#63 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10514 posts) -

@Solaryellow said:
@mattbbpl said:

@Solaryellow: Talk to your knuckle dragging GOP representatives who continually underfund everything. Their anti-government ideology has been self destructive for decades, and to point to its effects now as evidence that government is bad is laughably disingenuous.

The GOP is at fault for our terrible infrastructure and where we stand among the world in terms of public education? If you are going to use these as examples of something positive operated by the government, I'd expect them to be top notch.

Hence why he said 'underfund'. If you gut funding you can expect things to deteriorate. You don't turn around and then use it as proof that 'guv'ment' isn't delivering.

Avatar image for Shmiity
#64 Posted by Shmiity (6263 posts) -

Because we don't care about poor people and we dont care that people have to decide between groceries and medicine

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#65 Posted by Shmiity (6263 posts) -

We are a pretty immoral and shit nation that doesn't really take care of our people even though we have like 30x the economy of like every other planet on earth. But whatever, right? God is good and jesus and all that clown bullshit

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#66 Posted by THUMPTABLE (2078 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@Jag85 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@Jag85 said:

@Jacanuk: The UK is ranked higher than the US in healthcare. For all its faults, the NHS is still better than US healthcare.

Only if you look at the general data concerning the overall population.

If you look at America and look at the people who have decent healthcare insurance or have money to pay, the treatment is far superior to anything the NHS has to offer.

The US healthcare system is only more advantageous for a minority of the population. The UK's NHS system is more advantageous for the majority of the population.

You mean the NHS is average for a majority of the population providing average care which often means doctors don´t have the best options available to them because of cost.

In the US you can get the best care money can buy and if you have the cash why not get it.

Same goes for the other developed countries and your not out of pocket.
You must admit the US is so backward in a few key areas.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#67 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

Someone really needs to explain to me why I should pay for your healthcare - and why you should pay for mine. Especially a less quality government run system.

Education is paid for by tax dollars. I think you should reimburse your country. Taxes are paid into. Rather they were used for healthcare than corporate welfare. So you pay for your own........with taxes.

Avatar image for Jag85
#68 Posted by Jag85 (13248 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@Jag85 said:
@Jacanuk said:

You mean the NHS is average for a majority of the population providing average care which often means doctors don´t have the best options available to them because of cost.

In the US you can get the best care money can buy and if you have the cash why not get it.

Most people don't have the cash to afford the best healthcare. So the point still stands that US-style healthcare is only more beneficial for a minority of the population, whereas UK-style NHS healthcare is more beneficial for the majority of the population.

Nevertheless, the UK does also have optional private healthcare alongside the NHS. So both public and private healthcare systems can co-exist.

I get that most don´t have the cash or job-secured healthcare plan, but that is why a partial government plan for them should be worked on. Or do you really think that a doctor who earns 100 times as much as a Walmart employee should have the same access?

And again you are missing the point here, NHS provides average care meaning that everyone is hurt by the lack of money the NHS is faced with, "https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/03/andrew-lansley-bowel-cancer-nhs-money-screening"

So clearly universal healthcare is not the way forward, the best way is to provide those who really can´t pay adequate healthcare and let those who can pay, pay for it.

The NHS was functioning just fine with plenty of funding for decades, up until the Tory austerity cuts this decade.

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#69 Posted by JimB (2415 posts) -

There is an old saying, "you get what you pay for". Free college you get to go to the school the government tells you to go to if you can get in. Look how Obama care worked many people had health insurance but no healthcare because of the deductible, the could not afford to get sick. They also lost their doctors and hospitals they could go to. The only thing that would happen the people who pay taxes (which is about 50%) will be taxed to death to pay for another pie in the sky liberal scheme.

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#70 Posted by Icarian (1850 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

Because many Americans believe taxation is "theft" and they shouldn't pay to help other people in their community.

How very christian of them.

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#71 Posted by blaznwiipspman1 (7160 posts) -

Health care in the US for a family typically costs $20k for a basic no frills version. The deductible on that is also very high. So yeah, most people in the US don't have real health care and if something happens they simply don't get it. Either left to die, or get treatment and taken to bankruptcy. So yeah, the US healthcare system is by the rich for the rich. Other countries with some tax payer funded health care are better off. If you are part of the 1%, then you would be better off in the US for your health care because you get treatment immediately without waiting and actually be able to get treatment.

I don't mind a free for all system where people pay for their own health care, but there needs to be far less government interference if that's the case. By government interference I mean that the standards to become a doctor are much much lower, thus the free market is flooded with doctors. Also immigrant doctors are fast tracked in the system and allowed to practice immediately. Access to technology is made much cheaper, ie no patent laws, or trademarks. The reason MRI machines cost millions of dollars and not the $5000 that it costs to actually build is because of these government protections. If you do all that, then a full free market healthcare system would work amazingly well, far better than every universal health care system in the world.

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#72 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@Treflis: Except health care isn't a human right. Human right is the right to defend yourself when threatened. Every person has a natural instinct to protect themselves.

Americas universal health care would be abysmal because a large portion of Americans are overweight, under exercising, lazy, and quite bluntly, useless human beings to the economy. Sure they may be working, but they are walking health problems that cost more than they put in to the economy.

Free healthcare should be only to those who were born with unfortunate conditions and need support, or develop something down the road. But when one develops cancer because they are a heavy smoker, does not exercise, and chows down on mcdonalds every day of week... sorry, they do not deserve coverage.

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#73 Posted by Horgen (119934 posts) -

@Sevenizz said:

Someone really needs to explain to me why I should pay for your healthcare - and why you should pay for mine. Especially a less quality government run system.

You don't know how insurance works?

Avatar image for Treflis
#74 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: Except health care isn't a human right. Human right is the right to defend yourself when threatened. Every person has a natural instinct to protect themselves.

Americas universal health care would be abysmal because a large portion of Americans are overweight, under exercising, lazy, and quite bluntly, useless human beings to the economy. Sure they may be working, but they are walking health problems that cost more than they put in to the economy.

Free healthcare should be only to those who were born with unfortunate conditions and need support, or develop something down the road. But when one develops cancer because they are a heavy smoker, does not exercise, and chows down on mcdonalds every day of week... sorry, they do not deserve coverage.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations in 1948, states that "everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one's family, including food, clothing, housing, and medical care."

So...yeah.

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#75 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -
@Treflis said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: Except health care isn't a human right. Human right is the right to defend yourself when threatened. Every person has a natural instinct to protect themselves.

Americas universal health care would be abysmal because a large portion of Americans are overweight, under exercising, lazy, and quite bluntly, useless human beings to the economy. Sure they may be working, but they are walking health problems that cost more than they put in to the economy.

Free healthcare should be only to those who were born with unfortunate conditions and need support, or develop something down the road. But when one develops cancer because they are a heavy smoker, does not exercise, and chows down on mcdonalds every day of week... sorry, they do not deserve coverage.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations in 1948, states that "everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one's family, including food, clothing, housing, and medical care."

So...yeah.

The UN has done nothing to punish the biggest bully's on the international stages, USA and Israel. These two nations have caused more suffering post WW2 than WW2 has itself. Sorry I can't justify having an organization tell me whats morally right/wrong when they're clearly hypocrites...

Also, hundreds of millions in the world live in poverty, haven't seen the UN do much to stop the bullies from making it worse.

So...yeah.

Avatar image for mandzilla
#76 Posted by Mandzilla (3783 posts) -

Nikki Haley getting called out on her bs lol. What a clown.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/21/health/nikki-haley-finland-health-care-comment/index.html

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#77 Posted by Miyomatic (2628 posts) -

Obviously everyone wants free shit, but if everyone actually got all their shit for free, who is paying for that shit???

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#78 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@Treflis said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: Except health care isn't a human right. Human right is the right to defend yourself when threatened. Every person has a natural instinct to protect themselves.

Americas universal health care would be abysmal because a large portion of Americans are overweight, under exercising, lazy, and quite bluntly, useless human beings to the economy. Sure they may be working, but they are walking health problems that cost more than they put in to the economy.

Free healthcare should be only to those who were born with unfortunate conditions and need support, or develop something down the road. But when one develops cancer because they are a heavy smoker, does not exercise, and chows down on mcdonalds every day of week... sorry, they do not deserve coverage.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations in 1948, states that "everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of oneself and one's family, including food, clothing, housing, and medical care."

So...yeah.

The UN has done nothing to punish the biggest bully's on the international stages, USA and Israel. These two nations have caused more suffering post WW2 than WW2 has itself. Sorry I can't justify having an organization tell me whats morally right/wrong when they're clearly hypocrites...

Also, hundreds of millions in the world live in poverty, haven't seen the UN do much to stop the bullies from making it worse.

So...yeah.

So by your logic, The inability to ensure that all those that are in poverty gets these human rights enforced, One in which you claimed wasn't a human right, nullifies said human right for all?

Avatar image for nattydaddy604
#79 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.
Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#80 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

What a strange post. We don't have equal healthcare NOW because it relies on income. Taking away income from the equation they healthcare is more equal. IE everyone has access.

Avatar image for nattydaddy604
#81 Edited by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

What a strange post. We don't have equal healthcare NOW because it relies on income. Taking away income from the equation they healthcare is more equal. IE everyone has access.

What an uneducated rebuttal. Let me break this down why equality will never exist among humans.

1. Humans are different in physical and intellectual capabilities, which means abilities to provide value to society will be different.

2. Because of the differences, individuals of higher capabilities will enjoy greater levels of success.

This is human nature. We are all different.

The problem is not the income levels. Never was.

I live in Canada, everyone has health care. Except its pretty bad. I had to wait for over 6 hours when I dislocated my knee. Other people had to wait even longer. Strikes happen more often than they should, causing health care services to get even worse. Prescriptions aren't free, and can be quite expensive if you don't have coverage (I thought it was free?). Not to mention how many times I've had to be bounced around countless of times between "specialists" who couldn't tell me I have a cold.

Here's a great example of what care works in Canada. Life Insurance. Its regulations are nowhere near the amount health care is. We have multiple competitors, plans are very affordable and provide great coverage.

The most important difference between the two is the impact. The life insurance plan ENCOURAGES people to get healthier. The healthier you are, the lower you pay, and the better your plans are. Whereas monopolized health care does the opposite. Because everyone has a "right" to it, providers will increase prices because they are guaranteed demand, and quality will decrease because of no competitors. The individual is told not to care about their health at all, we'll take care of you regardless. This is why it will never work.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/private-health-care-donations-1.4444679

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#82 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

So unless you yourself can provide things like education, food, healthcare etc for yourself then and only then it's considered a human right?

And yes I read what you said about the UN but it's irrelevant even if there is a small degree of truth to it. Bureaucracy tends to be a hindrance when it comes to aiding those in nations where the leaders are corrupt and malicious. Despite that, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is something that ought to be defended and given genuine attempts to enforce. If not by the UN, then by the people in the nations that are apart of it.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#83 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

What a strange post. We don't have equal healthcare NOW because it relies on income. Taking away income from the equation they healthcare is more equal. IE everyone has access.

What an uneducated rebuttal. Let me break this down why equality will never exist among humans.

1. Humans are different in physical and intellectual capabilities, which means abilities to provide value to society will be different.

2. Because of the differences, individuals of higher capabilities will enjoy greater levels of success.

This is human nature. We are all different.

The problem is not the income levels. Never was.

I live in Canada, everyone has health care. Except its pretty bad. I had to wait for over 6 hours when I dislocated my knee. Other people had to wait even longer. Strikes happen more often than they should, causing health care services to get even worse. Prescriptions aren't free, and can be quite expensive if you don't have coverage (I thought it was free?). Not to mention how many times I've had to be bounced around countless of times between "specialists" who couldn't tell me I have a cold.

Here's a great example of what care works in Canada. Life Insurance. Its regulations are nowhere near the amount health care is. We have multiple competitors, plans are very affordable and provide great coverage.

The most important difference between the two is the impact. The life insurance plan ENCOURAGES people to get healthier. The healthier you are, the lower you pay, and the better your plans are. Whereas monopolized health care does the opposite. Because everyone has a "right" to it, providers will increase prices because they are guaranteed demand, and quality will decrease because of no competitors. The individual is told not to care about their health at all, we'll take care of you regardless. This is why it will never work.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/private-health-care-donations-1.4444679

Well you veered away from a silly post to a stupid one.

Healthcare is important for every single person. Not just those with money. Wealthy people and poor people get sick. Intelligent people and not so intelligent people get sick. Strong people and weak people get sick. All of these groups of people contribute something to society. Your Canadian health care comes from taxes paid by everyone.

We have private insurance in the US. It's VERY expensive so much so that some people cannot afford to carry it. Thus they have no health care. Much of the personal debt is because of medical bills. No one beyond the very wealthy can afford to pay for their own healthcare. And the very wealthy can afford the insurance so they aren't bankrupted by illness/accidents.

Also the wait time in emergency rooms can run several hours as well depending on the time of visit and the day........and more serious cases are always taken first. So you can sit here for hours as well.

Avatar image for nattydaddy604
#84 Edited by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

What a strange post. We don't have equal healthcare NOW because it relies on income. Taking away income from the equation they healthcare is more equal. IE everyone has access.

What an uneducated rebuttal. Let me break this down why equality will never exist among humans.

1. Humans are different in physical and intellectual capabilities, which means abilities to provide value to society will be different.

2. Because of the differences, individuals of higher capabilities will enjoy greater levels of success.

This is human nature. We are all different.

The problem is not the income levels. Never was.

I live in Canada, everyone has health care. Except its pretty bad. I had to wait for over 6 hours when I dislocated my knee. Other people had to wait even longer. Strikes happen more often than they should, causing health care services to get even worse. Prescriptions aren't free, and can be quite expensive if you don't have coverage (I thought it was free?). Not to mention how many times I've had to be bounced around countless of times between "specialists" who couldn't tell me I have a cold.

Here's a great example of what care works in Canada. Life Insurance. Its regulations are nowhere near the amount health care is. We have multiple competitors, plans are very affordable and provide great coverage.

The most important difference between the two is the impact. The life insurance plan ENCOURAGES people to get healthier. The healthier you are, the lower you pay, and the better your plans are. Whereas monopolized health care does the opposite. Because everyone has a "right" to it, providers will increase prices because they are guaranteed demand, and quality will decrease because of no competitors. The individual is told not to care about their health at all, we'll take care of you regardless. This is why it will never work.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/private-health-care-donations-1.4444679

Well you veered away from a silly post to a stupid one.

Healthcare is important for every single person. Not just those with money. Wealthy people and poor people get sick. Intelligent people and not so intelligent people get sick. Strong people and weak people get sick. All of these groups of people contribute something to society. Your Canadian health care comes from taxes paid by everyone.

We have private insurance in the US. It's VERY expensive so much so that some people cannot afford to carry it. Thus they have no health care. Much of the personal debt is because of medical bills. No one beyond the very wealthy can afford to pay for their own healthcare. And the very wealthy can afford the insurance so they aren't bankrupted by illness/accidents.

Also the wait time in emergency rooms can run several hours as well depending on the time of visit and the day........and more serious cases are always taken first. So you can sit here for hours as well.

I know a chick who went to school in Canada and the States, and did her hours in both countries. She's currently working in the States because the system is better. Granted she is originally from there, so being homesick definitely played a role, but her understanding of the system makes her opinion very valid. The reasons I have stated exactly why Americas is better, but is making a shift to be similar to Canadas

Your "private" insurance is so expensive because it is heavily regulated. Affordable Care act caused it to skyrocket. Not the only cause, but a contributor nonetheless.

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Monopolies result in shittier quality products at higher prices. -> Less people can afford it

Free market allows for many competitors which creates better quality products for lower prices. -> More people can afford it.

And don't bother trying to explain to me that America is free market capitalism, because it has not been for eons. It's a corporatocracy/crapitalistic system that needs to be destroyed.

Your hearts in the right place, but your solution will just lead to greater suffering for those who want to better themselves.

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#85 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@Treflis said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

So unless you yourself can provide things like education, food, healthcare etc for yourself then and only then it's considered a human right?

And yes I read what you said about the UN but it's irrelevant even if there is a small degree of truth to it. Bureaucracy tends to be a hindrance when it comes to aiding those in nations where the leaders are corrupt and malicious. Despite that, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is something that ought to be defended and given genuine attempts to enforce. If not by the UN, then by the people in the nations that are apart of it.

You're extracting a lot information that I have never stated.

I do agree with the human rights comment, but we have different methods of achieving it. I don't believe rewarding someone with the right to health care is economically feasible when the person is lazy, makes terrible health decisions, and overall has a negative impact on society. I believe health care should be an award for those who do well in taking care of themselves and those around them. Its much more feasible.

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#86 Posted by tenaka2 (17143 posts) -

Greed.

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#87 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@Treflis said:
@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: No. My logic is that human rights is that every human CAN do. Speak his/her mind, Protect themselves when threatened. These are two examples of that.

Government provided health care is not one because that implies EVERYONE should get equal care, but they don't. Therefore there will be inequality.

With all due respect, did you even read the first part of my comment about the UN? A facade that acts as a moral compass, but does nothing it actually states? That allows all the suffrage to continue?

So unless you yourself can provide things like education, food, healthcare etc for yourself then and only then it's considered a human right?

And yes I read what you said about the UN but it's irrelevant even if there is a small degree of truth to it. Bureaucracy tends to be a hindrance when it comes to aiding those in nations where the leaders are corrupt and malicious. Despite that, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is something that ought to be defended and given genuine attempts to enforce. If not by the UN, then by the people in the nations that are apart of it.

You're extracting a lot information that I have never stated.

I do agree with the human rights comment, but we have different methods of achieving it. I don't believe rewarding someone with the right to health care is economically feasible when the person is lazy, makes terrible health decisions, and overall has a negative impact on society. I believe health care should be an award for those who do well in taking care of themselves and those around them. Its much more feasible.

Provide healthcare for the healthy?
I suppose doctors would get some pretty dull days at work then.

In any case at least you're helping backing up my original claim about the mindset being " Everybody is responsible for their own gains in life and if they can't then it sucks to be them"

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#88 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@Treflis: Sigh* You lack basic knowledge of economics or the healthcare industry....
Doctors nowadays are not here to cure, but to profit. Go do some research on how prescription drugs keep people sick and how they actually kill people more than alcohol, guns, and illegal drugs combined

Nothing wrong with that mindset, its just the system is made to profit for select few. Remove the system and allow freedom for prosperity

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#89 Posted by Treflis (13611 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@Treflis: Sigh* You lack basic knowledge of economics or the healthcare industry....

Doctors nowadays are not here to cure, but to profit. Go do some research on how prescription drugs keep people sick and how they actually kill people more than alcohol, guns, and illegal drugs combined

Nothing wrong with that mindset, its just the system is made to profit for select few. Remove the system and allow freedom for prosperity

Then why would healthcare be an award for those who do well in taking care of themselves and those around them, if they're now designed to exploit for profit?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#90 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Well you veered away from a silly post to a stupid one.

Healthcare is important for every single person. Not just those with money. Wealthy people and poor people get sick. Intelligent people and not so intelligent people get sick. Strong people and weak people get sick. All of these groups of people contribute something to society. Your Canadian health care comes from taxes paid by everyone.

We have private insurance in the US. It's VERY expensive so much so that some people cannot afford to carry it. Thus they have no health care. Much of the personal debt is because of medical bills. No one beyond the very wealthy can afford to pay for their own healthcare. And the very wealthy can afford the insurance so they aren't bankrupted by illness/accidents.

Also the wait time in emergency rooms can run several hours as well depending on the time of visit and the day........and more serious cases are always taken first. So you can sit here for hours as well.

I know a chick who went to school in Canada and the States, and did her hours in both countries. She's currently working in the States because the system is better. Granted she is originally from there, so being homesick definitely played a role, but her understanding of the system makes her opinion very valid. The reasons I have stated exactly why Americas is better, but is making a shift to be similar to Canadas

Your "private" insurance is so expensive because it is heavily regulated. Affordable Care act caused it to skyrocket. Not the only cause, but a contributor nonetheless.

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Monopolies result in shittier quality products at higher prices. -> Less people can afford it

Free market allows for many competitors which creates better quality products for lower prices. -> More people can afford it.

And don't bother trying to explain to me that America is free market capitalism, because it has not been for eons. It's a corporatocracy/crapitalistic system that needs to be destroyed.

Your hearts in the right place, but your solution will just lead to greater suffering for those who want to better themselves.

Oh good. You present me with anecdotal evidence from "some" chick.

Our health insurance is rising every year as does most costs. We don't have monopolies here. We have NOT shifted to a single payer. Only for those who cannot afford insurance are under the ACA. The free market wasn't working which is why the ACA became a thing. Prior conditions were not given coverage and if one developed conditions they could be dropped or rates raised.

And you praise the system and then denounce it in the same post. Make up your mind. This is ridiculous.

My solution? I haven't offered one. I'm merely pointing out your posts are full of crap.

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#91 Edited by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Well you veered away from a silly post to a stupid one.

Healthcare is important for every single person. Not just those with money. Wealthy people and poor people get sick. Intelligent people and not so intelligent people get sick. Strong people and weak people get sick. All of these groups of people contribute something to society. Your Canadian health care comes from taxes paid by everyone.

We have private insurance in the US. It's VERY expensive so much so that some people cannot afford to carry it. Thus they have no health care. Much of the personal debt is because of medical bills. No one beyond the very wealthy can afford to pay for their own healthcare. And the very wealthy can afford the insurance so they aren't bankrupted by illness/accidents.

Also the wait time in emergency rooms can run several hours as well depending on the time of visit and the day........and more serious cases are always taken first. So you can sit here for hours as well.

I know a chick who went to school in Canada and the States, and did her hours in both countries. She's currently working in the States because the system is better. Granted she is originally from there, so being homesick definitely played a role, but her understanding of the system makes her opinion very valid. The reasons I have stated exactly why Americas is better, but is making a shift to be similar to Canadas

Your "private" insurance is so expensive because it is heavily regulated. Affordable Care act caused it to skyrocket. Not the only cause, but a contributor nonetheless.

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Monopolies result in shittier quality products at higher prices. -> Less people can afford it

Free market allows for many competitors which creates better quality products for lower prices. -> More people can afford it.

And don't bother trying to explain to me that America is free market capitalism, because it has not been for eons. It's a corporatocracy/crapitalistic system that needs to be destroyed.

Your hearts in the right place, but your solution will just lead to greater suffering for those who want to better themselves.

Oh good. You present me with anecdotal evidence from "some" chick.

Our health insurance is rising every year as does most costs. We don't have monopolies here. We have NOT shifted to a single payer. Only for those who cannot afford insurance are under the ACA. The free market wasn't working which is why the ACA became a thing. Prior conditions were not given coverage and if one developed conditions they could be dropped or rates raised.

And you praise the system and then denounce it in the same post. Make up your mind. This is ridiculous.

My solution? I haven't offered one. I'm merely pointing out your posts are full of crap.

Alright lets cut to the chase here. You're posts are full of shit and you're clearly incapable of reading.

May be anecdotal, but her knowledge of the system is higher than bottom of barrel knowledge like some people *cough* yours *cough*

Free market capitalism means there is NO REGULATIONS, NO RULES TO REGULATE BUSINESS. The PEOPLE are in power to make decisions. Does this currently exist or not? I'll answer it for you since you're incapable. It does not. GOVERNMENT makes the decision what is to be regulated, which is lobbied by CORPORATIONS. This is NOT FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

I NEVER stated it fully shifted to single payer, nice try. Selective reading, I see you egomaniac.

Oh you're right sorry, Marxists never have solutions. All they are good for is to whine about situations.

Leave your echo chamber of Gamespot bud. Your 160k+ posts on here are harming your mental health.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#92 Edited by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh good. You present me with anecdotal evidence from "some" chick.

Our health insurance is rising every year as does most costs. We don't have monopolies here. We have NOT shifted to a single payer. Only for those who cannot afford insurance are under the ACA. The free market wasn't working which is why the ACA became a thing. Prior conditions were not given coverage and if one developed conditions they could be dropped or rates raised.

And you praise the system and then denounce it in the same post. Make up your mind. This is ridiculous.

My solution? I haven't offered one. I'm merely pointing out your posts are full of crap.

Alright lets cut to the chase here. You're posts are full of shit and you're clearly incapable of reading.

May be anecdotal, but her knowledge of the system is higher than bottom of barrel knowledge like some people *cough* yours *cough*

Free market capitalism means there is NO REGULATIONS, NO RULES TO REGULATE BUSINESS. The PEOPLE are in power to make decisions. Does this currently exist or not? I'll answer it for you since you're incapable. It does not. GOVERNMENT makes the decision what is to be regulated, which is lobbied by CORPORATIONS. This is NOT FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

I NEVER stated it fully shifted to single payer, nice try. Selective reading, I see you egomaniac.

Oh you're right sorry, Marxists never have solutions. All they are good for is to whine about situations.

Leave your echo chamber of Gamespot bud. Your 160k+ posts on here are harming your mental health.

Anecdotal is anecdotal and no her experience is not measurably more than anyone else's.

You do know people select their own health insurance plans. Nope you absolutely don't know that.

You in fact did initially state that costs were rising because it became single payer.

To quote YOU........

@nattydaddy604 said:

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Pretty bad when you can't remember your own post.

Avatar image for nattydaddy604
#93 Edited by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh good. You present me with anecdotal evidence from "some" chick.

Our health insurance is rising every year as does most costs. We don't have monopolies here. We have NOT shifted to a single payer. Only for those who cannot afford insurance are under the ACA. The free market wasn't working which is why the ACA became a thing. Prior conditions were not given coverage and if one developed conditions they could be dropped or rates raised.

And you praise the system and then denounce it in the same post. Make up your mind. This is ridiculous.

My solution? I haven't offered one. I'm merely pointing out your posts are full of crap.

Alright lets cut to the chase here. You're posts are full of shit and you're clearly incapable of reading.

May be anecdotal, but her knowledge of the system is higher than bottom of barrel knowledge like some people *cough* yours *cough*

Free market capitalism means there is NO REGULATIONS, NO RULES TO REGULATE BUSINESS. The PEOPLE are in power to make decisions. Does this currently exist or not? I'll answer it for you since you're incapable. It does not. GOVERNMENT makes the decision what is to be regulated, which is lobbied by CORPORATIONS. This is NOT FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

I NEVER stated it fully shifted to single payer, nice try. Selective reading, I see you egomaniac.

Oh you're right sorry, Marxists never have solutions. All they are good for is to whine about situations.

Leave your echo chamber of Gamespot bud. Your 160k+ posts on here are harming your mental health.

Anecdotal is anecdotal and no her experience is not measurably more than anyone else's.

You do know people select their own health insurance plans. Nope you absolutely don't know that.

You in fact did initially state that costs were rising because it became single payer.

To quote YOU........

@nattydaddy604 said:

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Pretty bad when you can't remember your own post.

Again, just because its anecdotal, does not mean her knowledge is not valid.... Definitely more sound than you lol

"You do know people select their own health insurance plans. Nope you absolutely don't know that."

Actually I did know that. That does not mean a shift towards monopolization is not happening.... A single provide CAN still offer different plans. Can't say I'm surprised you thought that.

Except my post does not imply that it has made the COMPLETE shift to monopolization. Again, nice try. You and your word extrapolation is hilarious.

You can't make a counter argument to support your idiotic beliefs so now you're resorting to "nope you're wrong" replies.

Feel free to keep going though. I already know at this point you're just trying hit 170k comments on Gamespot. You're tryna break the Guinness world record

On a side note; I appreciate you ignoring the Marxist comment I made towards you. It confirms your indoctrination is complete and you'll never change your mind. Stick to your echo chambers child.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#94 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Anecdotal is anecdotal and no her experience is not measurably more than anyone else's.

You do know people select their own health insurance plans. Nope you absolutely don't know that.

You in fact did initially state that costs were rising because it became single payer.

To quote YOU........

@nattydaddy604 said:

Your healthcare is getting worse because of the shift to a single provider/monopolization. That's why.

Pretty bad when you can't remember your own post.

Again, just because its anecdotal, does not mean her knowledge is not valid.... Definitely more sound than you lol

"You do know people select their own health insurance plans. Nope you absolutely don't know that."

Actually I did know that. That does not mean a shift towards monopolization is not happening.... A single provide CAN still offer different plans. Can't say I'm surprised you thought that.

Except my post does not imply that it has made the COMPLETE shift to monopolization. Again, nice try. You and your word extrapolation is hilarious.

You can't make a counter argument to support your idiotic beliefs so now you're resorting to "nope you're wrong" replies.

Feel free to keep going though. I already know at this point you're just trying hit 170k comments on Gamespot. You're tryna break the Guinness world record

On a side note; I appreciate you ignoring the Marxist comment I made towards you. It confirms your indoctrination is complete and you'll never change your mind. Stick to your echo chambers child.

No her opinion is no more valid than others.

There is no shift except in your mind. Private health insurance is STILL the vast majority of care in the country.

I gave you facts. The ONLY thing you gave was your friends OPINION.

You have ZERO knowledge of what I think. I ignore ad hominems because all they do is make an ass out of the one using them.

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#95 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: The stupidity.....

Saying her opinion is no more valid than others is equivalent to saying a car mechanics opinion about CARS is no more valid than a doctors about CARS.... utter nonsense.

How is there no shift from private to single payer when it is already in place? Sure there are private insurers (still not a free market because of the regulations btw), but they are trying to make a universal heath care plan, which is a single provider... so my point is still very valid.

You gave no facts, try again.

Hold this L my man. I can hand it to you in this thread and the next one, you're too easy. Keep it up.

and you STILL don't want to debate in a live scenario. Lets do it. I'll make quick work of you.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#96 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@LJS9502_basic: The stupidity.....

Saying her opinion is no more valid than others is equivalent to saying a car mechanics opinion about CARS is no more valid than a doctors about CARS.... utter nonsense.

How is there no shift from private to single payer when it is already in place? Sure there are private insurers (still not a free market because of the regulations btw), but they are trying to make a universal heath care plan, which is a single provider... so my point is still very valid.

You gave no facts, try again.

Hold this L my man. I can hand it to you in this thread and the next one, you're too easy. Keep it up.

and you STILL don't want to debate in a live scenario. Lets do it. I'll make quick work of you.

I agree this post I'm quoting is the stupidity.

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#97 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: took you that long to come to up with a half ass response like that?

Dare I say? not surprised

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#98 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166180 posts) -

@nattydaddy604 said:

@LJS9502_basic: took you that long to come to up with a half ass response like that?

Dare I say? not surprised

I wasn't at home. I don't spend all day here like yourself. And there isn't anything to respond to with you since your are elevating some chicks opinion as fact. Not a damn thing to discuss with you.

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#99 Posted by NattyDaddy604 (305 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic:

LJ -> Member since 2003, with 166,000 posts
NattyDaddy ->Member since 2019, with 183 posts

Keep lying to yourself child.

Once again; Nurse who understands the healthcare system > Guinness world record holder for most useless posts on a gaming thread who has no clue about the healthcare system
Quite easy to understand.

Leave politics to the big boys, your mind is under complete control
Hold this L

Ps. Please make sure to submit your response in a timely manner. I'm off work for the next two days so I will get back to you during office hours.Make sure they're worthwhile replying to at least, they have been lack luster as of recent :/

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#100 Posted by Xabiss (2407 posts) -

Healthcare is one thing, but college? Why does everything have to be free in life. I mean that is all I hear is free but trust me someone pays for it. So technically none of this shit is free! So please stop with the free shit.