Why are conseratives pushing the narrative of colleges being "liberal indoctrication centers"?

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jcrame10

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#1 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

I am seeing this more and more on my Facebook newsfeed from Trump supporting friends and of course the radical right wing blog news outlets.

As someone who graduated with a college degree a few years back and is very happy with my career at the moment, I find this very puzzling and honestly insulting. It's ironic that the people who have probably never even stepped foot on a university property are the ones now targeting them for propaganda. I don't understand how teaching things that have grown to become known as a general fact is now somehow indoctricating. Would these same people have said the same thing hundreds of years agos about those who began teaching that the earth is round? Is this just simply a case of "fear what you don't understand"? I had someone post something about it on my FB news that I've known for a long time, and after arguing on their post, they deleted me. I just find this whole thing completely ignorant.

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N64DD

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#2 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

Go to any major college in Michigan, and it's hilariously obvious.

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jcrame10

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#3 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@n64dd said:

Go to any major college in Michigan, and it's hilariously obvious.

Can you elaborate? I am actually in OH, so not far from there. I was in university from 2010-2015.

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AfterShafter

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#4 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

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jcrame10

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#5 jcrame10
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@AfterShafter said:

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

I really don't view majority of what you said as a bad thing. I don't see why professors can't have political discussions in their classrooms and express their point of view especially when politics now dominate pretty much every aspect of our lives in ads, social media and television. It's pretty much a way of life that liberal people tend to go for higher education and that is no fault of anyone but the conseratives who choose not to pursue it.

Now the only thing I will say should absolutely not be happening is if there is some sort of political or social issue assignment, say a research paper, and the professor fails the student and gives a bad grade simply because they disagree with their point of view on the subject. That is absolutely unacceptable.

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LJS9502_basic

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#6 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178992 Posts

Conservative policies don't survive under intellectual scrutiny.

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Maroxad

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#7  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24150 Posts

@AfterShafter said:

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

In engineering I saw very little hints of any political ideas of any of my professors. Only thing I do know is that one of my professors wasn't happy about how Alan Turing was treated by the government. Through a remark he made once.

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#8  Edited By AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
@jcrame10 said:
@AfterShafter said:

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

I really don't view majority of what you said as a bad thing. I don't see why professors can't have political discussions in their classrooms and express their point of view especially when politics now dominate pretty much every aspect of our lives in ads, social media and television. It's pretty much a way of life that liberal people tend to go for higher education and that is no fault of anyone but the conseratives who choose not to pursue it.

Now the only thing I will say should absolutely not be happening is if there is some sort of political or social issue assignment, say a research paper, and the professor fails the student and gives a bad grade simply because they disagree with their point of view on the subject. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Let's say I take you as a goof faith actor rather than someone who just wants to say "LOL look at the dumb conservatives whining about something they don't understand!!" Let's say I do that. Let's consider your response here then.

You just said that the only thing that should absolutely not be happening is that students get marked down for disagreeing with a teacher's point of view. Starting there, I'm describing people who mark papers who have an avowed and vocal hatred of right leaning politics, and they view this as a sign of moral insolvency. Much of the work we deal with deals with politics in one form or another, particularly through the lens of Indigenous authors, and with some hot button issues (pipelines, rail blockades) being on the forefront, I can guarantee you some of our students are falling down against the Indigenous communities in question here. It is entirely clear that, for some TA's and professors, it is a moral imperative that the Indigenous communities be supported. These are oftentimes people who have expressed an outright hatred - and I don't believe I am misusing that term - for people with conservative leanings, as they view it as an unmitigated moral wrong to have voted for Andrew Scheer. I don't believe these are people who are willing to mark a piece which expresses sentiments in favour of pipelines, against Indigenous blockades, or in favour of conservative values on the same level as those going in the other directions. I've personally had marking consultations from TA's which amounted to "This technically fulfills the requirements of the assignment, and it is well written, but the traditional gender roles espoused here are problematic. I'd like to give this a lower grade based on this. Is that OK?" You should read into the initial events on the Lindsay Shepherd case to get a feel for the types of mentalities I'm talking about here. So, let's just say that while I can't confirm that the only thing out of what I said that concerns you is happening, but there is strong evidence that it is.

What DIDN'T bother you is disturbing though. Just quoting myself:

"I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now."

For context, Scheer is the recently defeated Conservative party leader. So, let's clarify. First, there is not one single person in our department who is overtly conservative in their leanings. Not one out of some 30 professors and instructors, and a whole herd of grad students. Heck, not even right of center. I can clearly identify whether about 75% of them voted NDP, Green, or Liberal though. Second, if somebody was right of center and announced it, there is a very good chance they would be ostracized within the department. Third, since much in the way of funding opportunities, allowances for research leave/etc is done behind closed doors in a department where outright hatred for conservative viewpoints expressed very publicly is acceptable, there is a good chance that if the wrong person is deciding if you get research funding and you've committed the sin of saying "Yeah, I'm voting Conservative" they may well just get passed by for their next opportunity. This is an environment in which it might hurt your career to come out with the wrong politics. This is also a place where we are teaching students from a position of presumed authority, where we are considered to be the height of our fields and have extensive cultural knowledge. When we come in and present politics as a right side/wrong side thing, operating as teachers with authority has some weight. Now, you've said that the ONLY thing that bothers you is the grading thing - therefore, this status quo is fine. So this environment, where conservative leanings are outright shunned, ostracized, and will likely negatively affect your career, is just fine according to you?

Finally, let's consider one thing you said, that being:

"It's pretty much a way of life that liberal people tend to go for higher education and that is no fault of anyone but the conseratives who choose not to pursue it."

Given the environment I've described above, do you think it's so simple to just write off the lack of conservatives in departments like mine as just "Well, they didn't want to, and that's all on them." If we see a place where women are treated with outright disdain and hostility, do we say "I guess it's all on the women for not wanting to be there! Everything is just fine in (insert industry there)"? Of course we don't, mainly because we recognize things like in-group preference, systemic bias, hostile environments, etc... The attitudes in my department, and the one you just expressed, is practically a Bat-signal of saying that precisely this type of status quo is totally fine in a left leaning academic environment. Basically conservative intellectuals need not apply because you're held in disdain in this environment. Then when there are no conservatives around we can say "I guess they just don't want to be here!" or "conservative ideas obviously just don't hold up under intellectual scrutiny." Either one may be the case, but I don't feel like my department gives us the grounds to say so with any confidence, given that the environment displays such an overt bias against the group in question.

I'm fine with being surrounded exclusively by left leaning people. I am a left leaning person. What I am not fine is presenting the environment that I'm in as anything but one that is outright hostile and exclusive towards people with conservative leanings not even on the basis of their ideas as it pertains to academic practice, but rather as it pertains to life outside of work.

For you, I have to say, I'm trying to take you and your response as operating in good faith. As it stands though, the fact that you seem totally fine with the type of environment I've described in all but one area makes me think that you've already concluded that "Oh, those conservatives just don't have the smart ideas like the liberals do, so obviously they don't end up at the smart place like the liberals do." Since you (seem to) start with a conclusion like this, it makes perfect sense to see ostracizing conservative viewpoints on campus as a product of the fidelity of ideas, rather than of the very pronounced political biases of the actors operating within the department. I'm telling you, there is a mile wide streak of political bias in the department I'm in, to the extent that I think they would outright shun even a good academic who came in and had the audacity to announce anything but left oriented political leanings. For a place that is supposed to be teaching kids how to read literature, I think this is a problem... That being said, I'm personally afraid to bring it up before I get tenured because I expect that this will make me a target of ostracization. At an early point in my career, I do not need that as everything is about network building. Nobody here wants a conservative in their network, and they likely don't want any nasty conservative sympathizers in there either. Does that sound like a healthy intellectual environment where ideas are allowed to be played off against each other to you? Because that's the classical liberal position on how things should happen, and I'd say it's pretty dead in our department right now. And a final note - have you considered that the only reason you don't see a strong anti-conservative bias is because you share it, and that you actively want to see it played out?

And, full disclosure, I'm not proofreading that. Too much work to do. If there are errors... Whoops!

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AfterShafter

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#9 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@AfterShafter said:

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

In engineering I saw very little hints of any political ideas of any of my professors. Only thing I do know is that one of my professors wasn't happy about how Alan Turing was treated by the government. Through a remark he made once.


That's good to know. I mean, you people build bridges and stuff - don't want you guys picking and choosing based on much other than merit.

Honestly, I can't speak for all of the humanities either, or even extensively beyond my department (though I do have fairly extensive knowledge of two other Canadian campuses and one in England). I'm pretty sure philosophy is still a bit more centrist than our department (literature). I'd expect sociology to have an even more pronounced left leaning focus given what happens every time I attend a colloquium. I fully expect the humanities to have a left leaning bias, but it has become pretty extreme these days, and at the point where I feel like we're outright excluding people based on politics, not ideas, that's a problem. I think we're well past that point, though granted I don't have much insight into the hiring procedures outside of departmental buzz. I do know that for our recent grad conference, the grad students were selecting papers at least in part based on the identity markers of the students submitting, rather than just on what is being presented. That's to be expected when I hear some of them walk into class sometimes saying things like "I was really enjoying this book, but then I did some research and found out that that was a pseudonym, and the author is actually a white male. I've had to reconsider their positionality to the topic." It's a wild time to be in literature...

Also, don't get me wrong - I'm OK with politics at school. Particularly in the humanities, activism is a big part of how many people approach the world. That's fine. It's when political leanings become a guiding principle in academic practice as a teacher, and as a department member, where I get concerned.

For Turing, do you mean that they weren't happy about how he was treated back in the day, or that he's being treated better now? Turing is kind of a giant figure and subject to some of the real ugly elements of our culture in the past... Guy deserves a holiday named after him or something.

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deactivated-5e9044657a310

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#10 deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts

Churches tell people how to vote

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PurpleMan5000

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#11 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts

I think it's a combination of kids graduating college with more than $100k in student loan debt and getting a job that pays about $40k per year. They obviously are going to favor political candidates who want to forgive student loan debt over candidates who are going to do absolutely nothing at all. They would be stupid not to. Old people see socialism as a bad thing and equate people like Bernie Sanders with Fidel Castro due to their complete inability to read more than a few sentences and think critically, so they then feel the need to manufacture a reason in their heads why young educated people support Bernie Sanders. The reason they come up with is that the schools must be indoctrinating young people.

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AfterShafter

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#12 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

@Nuck81:

Churches are places of indoctrination. Given that that is the case, are you making a comparison between the two? If so, I want to know - do you think universities should operate more like churches?

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deactivated-5ecb2e9232c57

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#13 deactivated-5ecb2e9232c57
Member since 2019 • 653 Posts

@AfterShafter said:

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

Very interesting. I am at a major Canadian university as well and have never had my professors try to push anything remotely like that on me. The TAs, as well, are pretty fair and balanced.

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#14 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50871 Posts

@Nuck81 said:

Churches tell people how to vote

Nah, they don't. They will not tell you which candidate to vote for.

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#15 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@AfterShafter: I agree with what your saying..

I went to a very liberal university (most are) there were times I would definently have to second guess myself on topics for papers or the questions I brought up in class in fear of being a target to the professor.

I was even offered extra credit to go to protests that were pollitically charged.

Somebody earlier in this thread brought up not dealing with political bias while in school for engineering. From my experiance math classes were one of the spaces i did not see any political bias.

My roomate at the time had to take gender studies to fill a required credit when everything else was filled up. I would laugh at his pain. It was some of the most out there far left rhetoric that exists and he had to write papers on it. Things like "gender is a social construct" and "white privellege" that kind of stuff. He hated the class and he was actually a liberal. I'm more libertarian myself.

The classes where I saw the most blatant liberal bias, sociology (so much toxic identity politics), philosophy, evolution of language, diversity in media, international politics, world history, even some writing courses (especially when you are doing research papers)

But It really just depends on the professor, if they are very open with thier politics and you disagree with them, it's best to just shut up and not rock the boat . If you do rock the boat and disagree with them on beliefs they feel strongly about they will be grading your stuff with a microscope compared to others.

I have another friend who went to a more right leaning university which was a christian UNIV.

From talking to him his experiance was very different from my own. We would joke about how we wish we could switch for a day to see how things were on the other side lol

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#16 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127564 Posts

I must have gone to the wrong university or taken the wrong courses.

The closest we came to discuss politics was more or less being told that we must think about some of the possibilities that open up with more research. Editing your DNA or designing on a genetic level your own offspring. Using embryo for stem cell research.

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#17 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15638 Posts

Education breeds critical thinking which is antithetical to right-wing propaganda and Christian indoctrination.

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#18 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50871 Posts
@PurpleMan5000 said:

I think it's a combination of kids graduating college with more than $100k in student loan debt and getting a job that pays about $40k per year. They obviously are going to favor political candidates who want to forgive student loan debt over candidates who are going to do absolutely nothing at all. They would be stupid not to. Old people see socialism as a bad thing and equate people like Bernie Sanders with Fidel Castro due to their complete inability to read more than a few sentences and think critically, so they then feel the need to manufacture a reason in their heads why young educated people support Bernie Sanders. The reason they come up with is that the schools must be indoctrinating young people.

Funny, because I would think spending that much on education for a 40k job is stupid.

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#19 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts

@AfterShafter said:

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I find it quite funny that in Canada it's conservatives in the middle of the country who get their jimmies rustled about the popular vote.

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#20 PurpleMan5000
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@Chutebox said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:

I think it's a combination of kids graduating college with more than $100k in student loan debt and getting a job that pays about $40k per year. They obviously are going to favor political candidates who want to forgive student loan debt over candidates who are going to do absolutely nothing at all. They would be stupid not to. Old people see socialism as a bad thing and equate people like Bernie Sanders with Fidel Castro due to their complete inability to read more than a few sentences and think critically, so they then feel the need to manufacture a reason in their heads why young educated people support Bernie Sanders. The reason they come up with is that the schools must be indoctrinating young people.

Funny, because I would think spending that much on education for a 40k job is stupid.

It depends on the career, really. Lots of great jobs start out under $50k and quickly increase with experience and certifications/licenses. Regardless, loaning a kid that much money with no consideration to what school they are attending, what degree they are pursuing, and what cheaper options for that degree are available is even more stupid. That is on the government, and by extension, all of us.

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Chutebox

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#21 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50871 Posts

@PurpleMan5000 said:
@Chutebox said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:

I think it's a combination of kids graduating college with more than $100k in student loan debt and getting a job that pays about $40k per year. They obviously are going to favor political candidates who want to forgive student loan debt over candidates who are going to do absolutely nothing at all. They would be stupid not to. Old people see socialism as a bad thing and equate people like Bernie Sanders with Fidel Castro due to their complete inability to read more than a few sentences and think critically, so they then feel the need to manufacture a reason in their heads why young educated people support Bernie Sanders. The reason they come up with is that the schools must be indoctrinating young people.

Funny, because I would think spending that much on education for a 40k job is stupid.

It depends on the career, really. Lots of great jobs start out under $50k and quickly increase with experience and certifications/licenses. Regardless, loaning a kid that much money with no consideration to what school they are attending, what degree they are pursuing, and what cheaper options for that degree are available is even more stupid. That is on the government, and by extension, all of us.

Agree 100%. Stupidity all around!

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AfterShafter

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#22 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin:

It is quite the comical role reversal. Trudeau, our current Prime Minister, did run his first campaign on a promise to switch to popular vote from our current system. It was a very popular position among his voters (it's part of why I voted for him) that many were quite angry he backed out on. Now the only reason that is is PM is because he backed out on it - though a Conservative minority government would have likely lasted all of five minutes before a coalition outed them. The many ironic twists in Canada's position on the popular vote is funny taken as a whole.

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jcrame10

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#23 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@leicam6 said:
@AfterShafter said:

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

Very interesting. I am at a major Canadian university as well and have never had my professors try to push anything remotely like that on me. The TAs, as well, are pretty fair and balanced.

Same here. Never experienced any sort of hot topic political issues in my 5 years at college.

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AfterShafter

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#24 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

@leicam6:

That's good to hear. If you don't mind my asking, what department are you in?

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Maroxad

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#25  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24150 Posts

@AfterShafter said:

That's good to know. I mean, you people build bridges and stuff - don't want you guys picking and choosing based on much other than merit.

Honestly, I can't speak for all of the humanities either, or even extensively beyond my department (though I do have fairly extensive knowledge of two other Canadian campuses and one in England). I'm pretty sure philosophy is still a bit more centrist than our department (literature). I'd expect sociology to have an even more pronounced left leaning focus given what happens every time I attend a colloquium. I fully expect the humanities to have a left leaning bias, but it has become pretty extreme these days, and at the point where I feel like we're outright excluding people based on politics, not ideas, that's a problem. I think we're well past that point, though granted I don't have much insight into the hiring procedures outside of departmental buzz. I do know that for our recent grad conference, the grad students were selecting papers at least in part based on the identity markers of the students submitting, rather than just on what is being presented. That's to be expected when I hear some of them walk into class sometimes saying things like "I was really enjoying this book, but then I did some research and found out that that was a pseudonym, and the author is actually a white male. I've had to reconsider their positionality to the topic." It's a wild time to be in literature...

Also, don't get me wrong - I'm OK with politics at school. Particularly in the humanities, activism is a big part of how many people approach the world. That's fine. It's when political leanings become a guiding principle in academic practice as a teacher, and as a department member, where I get concerned.

For Turing, do you mean that they weren't happy about how he was treated back in the day, or that he's being treated better now? Turing is kind of a giant figure and subject to some of the real ugly elements of our culture in the past... Guy deserves a holiday named after him or something.

He was unhappy of how Turing was treated back in the day. The professor revered the guy.

As for the politics of some humanities classes, I had some of that in high school. I liked calling my teacher Fox News, due to how ridicilously and blatantly biased she was in class.

Politics is fine though in class. I remember one of our teachers knowing our political affiliations, then making us argue for a party we clearly don't agree with. This was done to get us out of our comfort zone and train our critical thinking skills. This was in high school. As my engineering class didnt have any political courses, as well, it is engineering.

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#26  Edited By AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

@Maroxad:

Kudos to your teacher - the non Fox News one. That's not good. We need more people doing exercises like what you described at the grade school level. Wouldn't mind seeing it at the university level too.

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#27 plageus900
Member since 2013 • 3065 Posts

Because most Conservatives are fucking idiots and have never been to college. A good amount of the ones that have, majored in something like sociology or journalism; areas where politics run rampant.

While persuing an Engineering degree in Oregon, the only time politics popped up was in Gen Ed classes like psychology or poli sci.

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jcrame10

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#28 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@AfterShafter said:
@jcrame10 said:
@AfterShafter said:

I'm not a conservative (consider myself a classical liberal) and am far more likely to vote for one of the left leaning parties in my country than the Conservatives (Canada), and I work in a humanities department in a major Canadian university. I wouldn't say people are being indoctrinated, but the bias in one direction is both open and astounding.

Professors are totally open about politics in class. Where I told me students, on the night of our last Federal election, to go out and vote, many professors termed it as "go out and make sure the conservatives don't get in!" Oddly, nobody seemed to care that the Conservatives got more of the popular vote than the Liberals but got far less seats, when this was a hot button issue for them when Hillary lost to Trump under similar circumstances.

I've seen multiple people in the department, on social media, make statements about immediately unfriending anyone they knew who voted Conservative in our last election. I wonder how these people react to conservative leanings in class? Or arguments coming from a more conservative philosophical base?

I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now. The grad students (IE - TA's) take this all to the next level. A lot of them are open about their outright hatred for right leaning people and politics. Literally, hatred. I have a lot of them on social media. Things like the rail blockades really brought it to the forefront but, yeah, there are people marking your kids' papers in my department who *hate* Conservative voters.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of people are professional to the utmost and I believe don't let their politics get in the way in their teaching, marking, or decision making in the department. I'd say that's a majority, all in. That's not everybody though, and I absolutely believe that there are quite a few people who view right leaning politics as a sign of moral failing. Even with that though, a department which is 100% left leaning doesn't seem like it's going to present the most balanced perspective of things. Frankly, I'm not even sure people who are right of center would feel comfortable coming forward with things.

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

I really don't view majority of what you said as a bad thing. I don't see why professors can't have political discussions in their classrooms and express their point of view especially when politics now dominate pretty much every aspect of our lives in ads, social media and television. It's pretty much a way of life that liberal people tend to go for higher education and that is no fault of anyone but the conseratives who choose not to pursue it.

Now the only thing I will say should absolutely not be happening is if there is some sort of political or social issue assignment, say a research paper, and the professor fails the student and gives a bad grade simply because they disagree with their point of view on the subject. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Let's say I take you as a goof faith actor rather than someone who just wants to say "LOL look at the dumb conservatives whining about something they don't understand!!" Let's say I do that. Let's consider your response here then.

You just said that the only thing that should absolutely not be happening is that students get marked down for disagreeing with a teacher's point of view. Starting there, I'm describing people who mark papers who have an avowed and vocal hatred of right leaning politics, and they view this as a sign of moral insolvency. Much of the work we deal with deals with politics in one form or another, particularly through the lens of Indigenous authors, and with some hot button issues (pipelines, rail blockades) being on the forefront, I can guarantee you some of our students are falling down against the Indigenous communities in question here. It is entirely clear that, for some TA's and professors, it is a moral imperative that the Indigenous communities be supported. These are oftentimes people who have expressed an outright hatred - and I don't believe I am misusing that term - for people with conservative leanings, as they view it as an unmitigated moral wrong to have voted for Andrew Scheer. I don't believe these are people who are willing to mark a piece which expresses sentiments in favour of pipelines, against Indigenous blockades, or in favour of conservative values on the same level as those going in the other directions. I've personally had marking consultations from TA's which amounted to "This technically fulfills the requirements of the assignment, and it is well written, but the traditional gender roles espoused here are problematic. I'd like to give this a lower grade based on this. Is that OK?" You should read into the initial events on the Lindsay Shepherd case to get a feel for the types of mentalities I'm talking about here. So, let's just say that while I can't confirm that the only thing out of what I said that concerns you is happening, but there is strong evidence that it is.

What DIDN'T bother you is disturbing though. Just quoting myself:

"I'm not sure there is a single member of the department who considers themselves right of center. If there is, they are hiding because they outright know they will be ostracized for it. When a lot of funding, research opportunities, requests for research leaves/etc are done behind closed doors with undisclosed reasoning, I wouldn't want to single myself out as the guy who voted for Scheer right now."

For context, Scheer is the recently defeated Conservative party leader. So, let's clarify. First, there is not one single person in our department who is overtly conservative in their leanings. Not one out of some 30 professors and instructors, and a whole herd of grad students. Heck, not even right of center. I can clearly identify whether about 75% of them voted NDP, Green, or Liberal though. Second, if somebody was right of center and announced it, there is a very good chance they would be ostracized within the department. Third, since much in the way of funding opportunities, allowances for research leave/etc is done behind closed doors in a department where outright hatred for conservative viewpoints expressed very publicly is acceptable, there is a good chance that if the wrong person is deciding if you get research funding and you've committed the sin of saying "Yeah, I'm voting Conservative" they may well just get passed by for their next opportunity. This is an environment in which it might hurt your career to come out with the wrong politics. This is also a place where we are teaching students from a position of presumed authority, where we are considered to be the height of our fields and have extensive cultural knowledge. When we come in and present politics as a right side/wrong side thing, operating as teachers with authority has some weight. Now, you've said that the ONLY thing that bothers you is the grading thing - therefore, this status quo is fine. So this environment, where conservative leanings are outright shunned, ostracized, and will likely negatively affect your career, is just fine according to you?

Finally, let's consider one thing you said, that being:

"It's pretty much a way of life that liberal people tend to go for higher education and that is no fault of anyone but the conseratives who choose not to pursue it."

Given the environment I've described above, do you think it's so simple to just write off the lack of conservatives in departments like mine as just "Well, they didn't want to, and that's all on them." If we see a place where women are treated with outright disdain and hostility, do we say "I guess it's all on the women for not wanting to be there! Everything is just fine in (insert industry there)"? Of course we don't, mainly because we recognize things like in-group preference, systemic bias, hostile environments, etc... The attitudes in my department, and the one you just expressed, is practically a Bat-signal of saying that precisely this type of status quo is totally fine in a left leaning academic environment. Basically conservative intellectuals need not apply because you're held in disdain in this environment. Then when there are no conservatives around we can say "I guess they just don't want to be here!" or "conservative ideas obviously just don't hold up under intellectual scrutiny." Either one may be the case, but I don't feel like my department gives us the grounds to say so with any confidence, given that the environment displays such an overt bias against the group in question.

I'm fine with being surrounded exclusively by left leaning people. I am a left leaning person. What I am not fine is presenting the environment that I'm in as anything but one that is outright hostile and exclusive towards people with conservative leanings not even on the basis of their ideas as it pertains to academic practice, but rather as it pertains to life outside of work.

For you, I have to say, I'm trying to take you and your response as operating in good faith. As it stands though, the fact that you seem totally fine with the type of environment I've described in all but one area makes me think that you've already concluded that "Oh, those conservatives just don't have the smart ideas like the liberals do, so obviously they don't end up at the smart place like the liberals do." Since you (seem to) start with a conclusion like this, it makes perfect sense to see ostracizing conservative viewpoints on campus as a product of the fidelity of ideas, rather than of the very pronounced political biases of the actors operating within the department. I'm telling you, there is a mile wide streak of political bias in the department I'm in, to the extent that I think they would outright shun even a good academic who came in and had the audacity to announce anything but left oriented political leanings. For a place that is supposed to be teaching kids how to read literature, I think this is a problem... That being said, I'm personally afraid to bring it up before I get tenured because I expect that this will make me a target of ostracization. At an early point in my career, I do not need that as everything is about network building. Nobody here wants a conservative in their network, and they likely don't want any nasty conservative sympathizers in there either. Does that sound like a healthy intellectual environment where ideas are allowed to be played off against each other to you? Because that's the classical liberal position on how things should happen, and I'd say it's pretty dead in our department right now. And a final note - have you considered that the only reason you don't see a strong anti-conservative bias is because you share it, and that you actively want to see it played out?

And, full disclosure, I'm not proofreading that. Too much work to do. If there are errors... Whoops!

You're assuming conseratives are "hiding" at universities when it could just be a small percentage of them work there. I think teaching in general is a pretty liberal thing so I wouldn't be surprised if not many conservatives became teachers but rather more blue collar working industry jobs instead. It also probably depends on what part of the country you live in as well. Obviously the odds of you running into somebody diehard conservative in Alabama is going to be much higher than if you were looking for someone with the same characteristics in Portland OR.

Again, I'll say it, who's fault is it but the conservatives if they reject higher education, don't attend universities, don't become teachers, etc.? Really it is them who is creating the "liberal" environment by choosing to abstain from participating.

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#29 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23087 Posts

@jcrame10: "Again, I'll say it, who's fault is it but the conservatives if they reject higher education, don't attend universities, don't become teachers, etc.?"

You're missing the point. Conservative ideas like Creationism and climate change being fake aren't fairly represented in Universities. It's not fair.

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jeezers

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#30 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@plageus900 said:

Because most Conservatives are fucking idiots and have never been to college.A good amount of the ones that have, majored in something like sociology or journalism; areas where politics run rampant.

While persuing an Engineering degree in Oregon, the only time politics popped up was in Gen Ed classes like psychology or poli sci.

No shit genius you majored in Engineering lol Why would your classes ever involve politics.

Also what a smug pretentious douche thing to say. Its like calling liberals a bunch of stupid welfare babies.

Its your type of rhetoric that I despise on the left, fucking superiority complex.

Also you don't know what your talking about, both sociology and journalism attract mostly liberal people.

More liberals become social workers than conservatives.

For a guy so educated you sure do sound like an idiot.

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jcrame10

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#31  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@jcrame10: "Again, I'll say it, who's fault is it but the conservatives if they reject higher education, don't attend universities, don't become teachers, etc.?"

You're missing the point. Conservative ideas like Creationism and climate change being fake aren't fairly represented in Universities. It's not fair.

I am 28 years old and the idea of evolution and the big bang theory were taught to me as far back as 10th grade in 2007-2008. Climate change was something discussed and taught at university for me in 2012-2014. Conservatives resisting to change and new facts being discovered are not calls for them to call schools "indoctricating".

I will ask again as I did in my original post- if we were living in times hundreds of years ago would these same people be calling those who claimed the earth is round "fake news" or "indoctricating people"?

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#32 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@jeezers said:
@plageus900 said:

Because most Conservatives are fucking idiots and have never been to college.A good amount of the ones that have, majored in something like sociology or journalism; areas where politics run rampant.

While persuing an Engineering degree in Oregon, the only time politics popped up was in Gen Ed classes like psychology or poli sci.

No shit genius you majored in Engineering lol Why would your classes ever involve politics.

Also what a smug pretentious douche thing to say. Its like calling liberals a bunch of stupid welfare babies.

Its your type of rhetoric that I despise on the left, fucking superiority complex.

Also you don't know what your talking about, both sociology and journalism attract mostly liberal people.

More liberals become social workers than conservatives.

For a guy so educated you sure do sound like an idiot.

I honestly don't know who would pursue what majors. At the time I was in school politics weren't so aggressive and in your face (if they even are now at universities) and people didn't really openly discuss politics in class or while studying/doing work in the commons. I went to Kent State University in northeastern Ohio.

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#33 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23087 Posts

@jcrame10: Damn, I knew I should have added /s to that post.

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jcrame10

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#34 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@jcrame10: Damn, I knew I should have added /s to that post.

I knew you were joking, but it's still frustrating because people actually believe that.

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#35  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@jcrame10 said:
@mattbbpl said:

@jcrame10: "Again, I'll say it, who's fault is it but the conservatives if they reject higher education, don't attend universities, don't become teachers, etc.?"

You're missing the point. Conservative ideas like Creationism and climate change being fake aren't fairly represented in Universities. It's not fair.

I am 28 years old and the idea of evolution and the big bang theory were taught to me as far back as 10th grade in 2007-2008. Climate change was something discussed and taught at university for me in 2012-2014. Conservatives resisting to change and new facts being discovered are not calls for them to call schools "indoctricating".

I will ask again as I did in my original post- if we were living in times hundreds of years ago would these same people be calling those who claimed the earth is found "fake news" or "indoctricating people"?

We are the same age and I've been taught these things as well. I will agree Evolution is real, However the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory, we don't know for sure. There's a reason they refer to it as the "god particle" Funny that a theory on the creation of everything uses the word god.

I think where alot of political disagreements between the left and right would be in sociology. Especially when referring to things like gender as a social construct and white privilege. Which is all ideology not based in science in any way.

Its the left that is promoting that you can be a boy or girl if you choose to be, in this way the left is just as much anti science as the right. Just as some would say the right is with evolution.

Its just on different things.

Maybe we can convince all the conservative that humans evolved from apes and at the same time convince all the liberals that if your born a boy your still a boy if your born a girl your still a girl.

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jcrame10

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#36  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@jeezers said:
@jcrame10 said:
@mattbbpl said:

@jcrame10: "Again, I'll say it, who's fault is it but the conservatives if they reject higher education, don't attend universities, don't become teachers, etc.?"

You're missing the point. Conservative ideas like Creationism and climate change being fake aren't fairly represented in Universities. It's not fair.

I am 28 years old and the idea of evolution and the big bang theory were taught to me as far back as 10th grade in 2007-2008. Climate change was something discussed and taught at university for me in 2012-2014. Conservatives resisting to change and new facts being discovered are not calls for them to call schools "indoctricating".

I will ask again as I did in my original post- if we were living in times hundreds of years ago would these same people be calling those who claimed the earth is found "fake news" or "indoctricating people"?

We are the same age and I've been taught these things as well. I will agree Evolution is real, However the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory, we don't know for sure. There's a reason they refer to it as the "god particle" Funny that a theory on the creation of everything uses the word god.

I think where alot of political disagreements between the left in right would be in sociology. Especially when referring to things like gender as a social construct and white privilege. Which is all ideology not based in science any way.

Its the left that is promoting that you can be a boy or girl if you choose to be, in this way the left is just as much anti science as the right. Just as some would say the right is with evolution.

Its just on different things.

Maybe we can convince all the conservative that humans evolved from apes and at the same time convince all the liberals that if your born a boy your still a boy if your born a girl your still a girl.

I consider myself pretty liberal but I don't view the whole gender thing, you can be whatever you want, there's multiple genders, etc. as political. I don't take it seriously because it's completely stupid and nonsensical to even waste energy arguing with people who preach that shit when there's so many real issues to discuss.

I have no problem with faith being taught in public schools, I would encourage it. However, I think all faiths should be allowed as an elective. Since we aren't governed by religion it would make no sense to teach Christianity in public schools as a requirement or alternative to evolution when there are Catholic, Jewish and Muslim students probably attending as well. Nor would it be fair to ONLY offer Christianity teachings as an elective. But every time I bring up teaching the Qu'ran in public schools the people who want Christianity taught have a melt down at this idea.

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Maroxad

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#37  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24150 Posts

@jeezers said:

We are the same age and I've been taught these things as well. I will agree Evolution is real, However the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory, we don't know for sure. There's a reason they refer to it as the "god particle" Funny that a theory on the creation of everything uses the word god.

I think where alot of political disagreements between the left in right would be in sociology. Especially when referring to things like gender as a social construct and white privilege. Which is all ideology not based in science any way.

Its the left that is promoting that you can be a boy or girl if you choose to be, in this way the left is just as much anti science as the right. Just as some would say the right is with evolution.

Its just on different things.

Maybe we can convince all the conservative that humans evolved from apes and at the same time convince all the liberals that if your born a boy your still a boy if your born a girl your still a girl.

Big Bang is a scientific theory. Which is not the same as an every day theory. And it became the best explanation and its predictive power holds true as of yet.

As for the boy girl thing. That has more to do with recent medical advancements and a greater understanding of human genetics. Unfortunately, it is a shaky ground, as there is so much anti-science coming from both Transgender Deniers and The Pro-Transgender Activists. So much so, it isn't hard to come under fire from both camps, for trying to stick to the medical consensus.

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#38 deactivated-5ecb2e9232c57
Member since 2019 • 653 Posts

@AfterShafter: Political Science and East Asian Studies.

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#39 plageus900
Member since 2013 • 3065 Posts

@jeezers: Listen to yourself. You just proved my point. How can colleges be liberal indoctrination centers if you don't find politics in STEM classes? If conservatives are being bombarded with liberal agendas, that must mean they're sitting through poli sci, sociology and other subjective type classes.

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#40 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17880 Posts
@jeezers said:
There's a reason they refer to it as the "god particle" Funny that a theory on the creation of everything uses the word god.

'The God Particle' is polite parlance for 'That Goddam Particle', because it was so difficult to find.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-higgs-is-called-the-god-particle-2015-5

Seriously, dude...

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comp_atkins

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#41 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38718 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@AfterShafter said:

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

In engineering I saw very little hints of any political ideas of any of my professors. Only thing I do know is that one of my professors wasn't happy about how Alan Turing was treated by the government. Through a remark he made once.

same.

though it's hard to infuse math / engineering w/ politics....

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#42 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17880 Posts

@comp_atkins said:
@Maroxad said:
@AfterShafter said:

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

In engineering I saw very little hints of any political ideas of any of my professors. Only thing I do know is that one of my professors wasn't happy about how Alan Turing was treated by the government. Through a remark he made once.

same.

though it's hard to infuse math / engineering w/ politics....

I dunno...I can imagine the brains at the ESA looking over at the NASA guys and saying "miles" before snickering to themselves.

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Maroxad

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#43  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24150 Posts

@AfterShafter said:

@Maroxad:

Kudos to your teacher - the non Fox News one. That's not good. We need more people doing exercises like what you described at the grade school level. Wouldn't mind seeing it at the university level too.

In college we had a similar course. Albeit more of an engineering one. We took major-relevant published academic papers written by researchers at the University. Then we ripped them to shreds with a lot of scrutiny. Discussing what worked, what didn't work, and how the research could have improved. And so on.

Maths professor would intentionally make mistakes when writing proofs, only to see if one of the students would catch him on it.

It was a good exercise for critical thinking.

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mrbojangles25

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#44  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58878 Posts

The reason this is believed is because conservatives can't tell the difference between a progressive idea and a liberal belief; they sort of lump them all together.

"Progressive-ism" is not inherently bad, nor is it exclusive to liberals; there can be progressive Republicans, progressive conservatives, etc.

@LJS9502_basic said:

Conservative policies don't survive under intellectual scrutiny.

Also this.

And it's nothing new to colleges, either, but younger people as well.

First it was "Don't teach my kids sex ed, abstinence works!" now it's "Don't teach my kids new ways of thinking, ignorance works!"

A lot of these people still think the earth is only a few thousand years old, and believe that cannabis is as bad as heroin and meth. They're beyond saving...but also beyond criticism. I feel bad for them.

Wait, no I don't.

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#45 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

So gathering opinions from this post, it just seems like reaching from conservatives.

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N64DD

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#46 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@jcrame10: go to u of m ann arbors campus.

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178992 Posts

@jcrame10 said:

So gathering opinions from this post, it just seems like reaching from conservatives.

It is. Only time I heard politics was in a political science class and that's self explanatory.

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judaspete

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#48 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 7433 Posts

I'd encourage anyone who thinks schools are too liberal, to become a teacher.

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#49  Edited By comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38718 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@comp_atkins said:
@Maroxad said:
@AfterShafter said:

No idea what it's like outside of the humanities though, or even in some other departments. I'm pretty sure Philosophy is a bit more old fashioned than we are given the jokes I was hearing at the last speaker event I attended in their department.

In engineering I saw very little hints of any political ideas of any of my professors. Only thing I do know is that one of my professors wasn't happy about how Alan Turing was treated by the government. Through a remark he made once.

same.

though it's hard to infuse math / engineering w/ politics....

I dunno...I can imagine the brains at the ESA looking over at the NASA guys and saying "miles" before snickering to themselves.

the magnetic field around a current carrying conductor follows the right-hand rule because it's conservative.

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#50 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

It's fake news.

Liberal Indoctrination? Not So Much

Study counters widely held views about how students' political views change when they arrive in college.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/02/05/research-suggests-colleges-broaden-students-political-views

And yes. Professors are more liberal, because liberals go into that career more.