White House projects 1 trillion in deficit for just 2019

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#1 Edited by Nuck81 (7705 posts) -

GOP the party of fiscal responsibility.

I just they will give a shit about the deficit once a Democrat is president again.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/453177-wh-projects-1-trillion-deficit-for-2019?amp&__twitter_impression=true

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#2 Edited by joebones5000 (2615 posts) -

These tax cuts combined with all the savings and economic BOOM we saw from the Reagan cuts and the Bush Jr. cuts are sure to kick in any time now! Just you wait, the national debt will be gone before you know it. Republicans know what they're doing.

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#3 Posted by Horgen (120858 posts) -

He got to up it another 500 billions or so to beat Obama.

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#4 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

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#5 Edited by Horgen (120858 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

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#6 Edited by joebones5000 (2615 posts) -

@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

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#7 Posted by comp_atkins (35796 posts) -
@horgen said:

He got to up it another 500 billions or so to beat Obama.

#winning?


Avatar image for horgen
#8 Posted by Horgen (120858 posts) -

@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

2011 was still something like $1300 billions deficit.

What worries is that this was after the financial crisis, trying to get the economy back on track. Now the economy is doing well and the deficit is increasing faster (percentage wise) than GDP.

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#9 Posted by joebones5000 (2615 posts) -

@horgen said:
@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

2011 was still something like $1300 billions deficit.

What worries is that this was after the financial crisis, trying to get the economy back on track. Now the economy is doing well and the deficit is increasing faster (percentage wise) than GDP.

The U.S. economy started its incline in 2010 and has continued climbing at about the same rate for 9 years. It is interesting to note that deficits stayed high for the first four years after the Great bush recession, and as the economy improved under Obama, the deficit was cut in half to an average of $500 billion through the end of his presidency.

The new round of tax cuts, which haven't had any measurable positive effect on the economy, have increased deficits into the trillions again.

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#10 Posted by blaznwiipspman1 (7232 posts) -

@Nuck81: I guess now we know why the economy is at 3.8% unemployment. When you have free $1 trillion dollars in giveaways even a monkey can have a great economy. On the economic front, Obama was doing a much better job. All Trump had to do was to follow the plan set in place and the budget would have been balanced this year. What a moron.

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#11 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@horgen said:
@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

2011 was still something like $1300 billions deficit.

What worries is that this was after the financial crisis, trying to get the economy back on track. Now the economy is doing well and the deficit is increasing faster (percentage wise) than GDP.

this projection from the white house isnt random though, right now trump is proposing cuts to federal spending, many of them cuts to federal agencies, and pelosi is demanding more spending across the board, meaning another spending conflict inbound

i demonstrated on a previous thread that the US is bringing in more revenue than ever before, but also spending is going up exponentially, i do think its about time we take a dozen or so agencies that really dont do a much, and start trimming the fat

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#12 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@Nuck81: I guess now we know why the economy is at 3.8% unemployment. When you have free $1 trillion dollars in giveaways even a monkey can have a great economy. On the economic front, Obama was doing a much better job. All Trump had to do was to follow the plan set in place and the budget would have been balanced this year. What a moron.

who gave away a trillion dollars?

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#13 Edited by Serraph105 (33959 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@Nuck81: I guess now we know why the economy is at 3.8% unemployment. When you have free $1 trillion dollars in giveaways even a monkey can have a great economy. On the economic front, Obama was doing a much better job. All Trump had to do was to follow the plan set in place and the budget would have been balanced this year. What a moron.

who gave away a trillion dollars?

The republicans created legislation in 2017 called the "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017" that gave the rich $1.7 trillion in tax cuts and increased spending by 1.3 trillion.

The math is astoundingly bad. Anyone can tell you that if you lose your source of income (or in this case, intentionally stop collecting it) you don't turn around and triple your spending.

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#14 Edited by blaznwiipspman1 (7232 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: who do you think? The right of course. Giving away $1 trillion in free money even with the economy doing great. These scam artist Republicans don't know what the hell they are doing. Imagine what will happen when a recession hits...I guess by then it will be time for Dems to be in charge and more big spending to get us out. Of course they will take the blame for fixing the economy and the repubs will be back in power next term with more give aways and tanking the economy. Cycle repeats. The country desperately needs a third party. The nonsense from a 2 party system is plain to see.

I'd like to see a party that is strong on immigration enforcement, deregulation of the market patents bullshit, yearly budget balances of exactly 0 and strong environmental policies(carbon tax). In fact a party that guarantees yearly surplus unless in a recession and that is spent on decreasing the debt would be preferable.

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#15 Edited by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

first off, tax cuts are not "giving" anyone anything, thats like saying i just gave you $100 because i didnt kick your ass and take it from you against your will.. second of all, those tax cuts benefited anyone with a job, third of all, the numbers are already in that the PROJECTED 1.7 trillion increase from tax cuts wasn't the case as the government has brought in more revenue after, than prior, so its not adding to the deficit, nobody was "given" anything.. you clearly have a despise for this "the rich" boogieman that you like to blame everything on, take some personal responsibility for your own financial situation

big spending isnt going to dig anyone out of anything, it was a combination of bushes bailouts to banks and obamas stimulus package that seen so many years of over a trillion deficit, something neither of you actually mention because it hasnt been covered recently on CNN

spending is the problem, what? do you think youre going to have a balanced budget without major cuts to a lot of the bullshit ABC agencies we have that do absolutely jack shit or have overlapping jurisdiction with other existing agencies created just to give some politicians sister-in-laws friends cousin a do nothing job?.. or do you think we're going to keep blowing hundreds of billions of more on dumb crap and just expect "the rich" to pay for it all?

if youre not willing to talk spending cuts, then you're not ready to have a serious conversation about budget issues

and a third party? we have like 20 different parties, the difference is only TWO of them ever get invited to the national debates on the major networks, the media gets to control your choices but taking away ANY exposure to anyone outside of the D-R spectrum.. a third party will just be another group of assholes working against the interests of the american people with a different superficial meaningless letter next to their name

carbon taxes? are you fucking kidding me? jack up the energy costs not only making YOUR electric bill jump through the roof but also the cost of manufacturing sending the remaining manufacturing jobs in this country overseas while additionally adding to the costs to transport and ship products across the country? just so you can keep paying for the excessive waste and fraud that comes with overfunded federal bureaucracies?

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#16 Edited by blaznwiipspman1 (7232 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: I'm serious about everything. Pollution has a fixed cost, and the government should ram that cost down your throat if it has to. Every other country already has some form of carbon tax and I'd say half of the US does as well at the state level.

Spending is an issue, the biggest one being the military. The budget was $720 billion this year, a new all time record.

Also taxes exist for a reason. To fund many of the things the country needs to function. If you don't understand that, go live in a jungle and see how that works out for you. On top of that, taxes wouldn't need to be so high if the government got rid of the patent system once and for all. End patents, intellectual property rights, contract laws, trademarks etc and you can bring down the tax rate to less than 5% for all I care. You can't have these regulations and then ask for tax cuts at the same time. It's massive level of welfare for the rich and the ones getting screwed are the middle class.

Bring back the real free market or jack up the taxes on the rich up to 80% or more.

I would strongly prefer the first option. Th rich would prefer the second, I can promise you that. They love the welfare.

So bottom.line, yes those tax cuts are give aways and handouts. It is a giant scam and everyone should be outraged at the deficit being so high. Pathetic.

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#17 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166850 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Yeah thanks to his predecessor.

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#18 Edited by joebones5000 (2615 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:

first off, tax cuts are not "giving" anyone anything, thats like saying i just gave you $100 because i didnt kick your ass and take it from you against your will..

This is a horribly weak argument. I have no idea why conservatives latch on to it so often. No one is required to pay taxes. You or any business doesn't have to pay a dime if you don't want to. If you choose to live or do business in any given society, you're going to have to pay for it. Society isn't free. Moochers like to pretend it is, but it isn't. If you or a business is given a discount via a tax cut for their societal burden, you bet my sweet ass that is a gift. There are costs that we all bear for the privilege of living in and participating in society. Don't like it? Leave!

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#19 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Yeah thanks to his predecessor.

you could maybe blame it on bush for a year, all of obamas first four years were over a trillion in debt in large part to the stimulus package which gave money and banks to corporations, which seemed to prefer companies that donate to their political party, and obamacare which caused millions to lose their job and stagnated job growth by capping small businesses to 49 employees

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#20 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@burntbyhellfire: I'm serious about everything. Pollution has a fixed cost, and the government should ram that cost down your throat if it has to. Every other country already has some form of carbon tax and I'd say half of the US does as well at the state level.

Spending is an issue, the biggest one being the military. The budget was $720 billion this year, a new all time record.

Also taxes exist for a reason. To fund many of the things the country needs to function. If you don't understand that, go live in a jungle and see how that works out for you. On top of that, taxes wouldn't need to be so high if the government got rid of the patent system once and for all. End patents, intellectual property rights, contract laws, trademarks etc and you can bring down the tax rate to less than 5% for all I care. You can't have these regulations and then ask for tax cuts at the same time. It's massive level of welfare for the rich and the ones getting screwed are the middle class.

Bring back the real free market or jack up the taxes on the rich up to 80% or more.

I would strongly prefer the first option. Th rich would prefer the second, I can promise you that. They love the welfare.

So bottom.line, yes those tax cuts are give aways and handouts. It is a giant scam and everyone should be outraged at the deficit being so high. Pathetic.

using the blanket statement that taxes fund things we need to justify wasteful and fraudulent spending is a stupid argument, and the military budget may be higher, but not enough higher to account for other costs. the federal government needs to cut back on a lot of spending, period, "the rich" could be taxed 100% and it wont even come close to paying for the shit you speak of, the bulk of the costs WILL fall on the middle working classes and thats something you need to get through your head.. working families WILL be paying for it

and do you know what happens if you end patents and intellectual property rights? you kill innovation, why invent something if you cannot market it? that's beyond stupid, and end trademark laws as well? so you're saying any asshole can create a knock off, put the companies logo on it and market it as the legitimate product, legally?.. no, just no, patents and copyright laws exist for a reason.. you should try running a business some time, see how far you get when you try to invent something and someone else with more money produces your idea at a faster rate than you can and earns millions while you get nothing

tell me, do you actually pay taxes? do you pay for your own food? housing? energy? do you not understand how your stupid carbon tax idea would raise the cost of all of this for everyone? do you not realize shit you order from amazon requires fuel to manufacture and transport, so with higher energy costs, will go up in price.. it'd certainly squeeze out the remaining US companies out of business and give our remaining jobs to china because nobody is going to pay for that shit

you really need to educate yourself in reality

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#21 Posted by judaspete (3063 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: Look, I think you might have more luck shifting people's opinion about things if you offered more specifics. "The government is wasteful and fraudulent", alright sure, but do you have some data or numbers to back up the statement. How much money is wasted, where is it wasted, what programs are redundant? I actually agree with you here, but you responed to a blanket statement about taxes with a blanket statement about waste. You're not gping to convince @blaznwiipspman1 any more than he convinced you of his point here.

For example, if I wanted to talk about how much money the military wastes, I might post a link to this story here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.980d729b9b33

I don't know, just a thought.

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#22 Edited by HoolaHoopMan (10873 posts) -

A trillion dollar deficit during a good economy with no overlapping budget from his predecessor, the GOP are a fiscal joke.

They increased the deficit by 50% in under 2 years. We have financial illiterates running our country.

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#23 Posted by Horgen (120858 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

A trillion dollar deficit during a good economy with no overlapping budget from his predecessor, the GOP are a fiscal joke.

They increased by deficit by 50% in under 2 years. We have financial illiterates running our country.

They got donors to please. And Trump is keeping true to his word.

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#24 Posted by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

@judaspete said:

@burntbyhellfire: Look, I think you might have more luck shifting people's opinion about things if you offered more specifics. "The government is wasteful and fraudulent", alright sure, but do you have some data or numbers to back up the statement. How much money is wasted, where is it wasted, what programs are redundant? I actually agree with you here, but you responed to a blanket statement about taxes with a blanket statement about waste. You're not gping to convince @blaznwiipspman1 any more than he convinced you of his point here.

For example, if I wanted to talk about how much money the military wastes, I might post a link to this story here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.980d729b9b33

I don't know, just a thought.

all i need is to point out the number of overlap in jurisdictions with many various bureaus within the federal government.. for example.. DEA, BATFE, DHS, NSA, FBI, us marshalls, and a half dozen others most people have never heard of, combine all of them into the jurisdiction of a single agency, reduce the overall budget of them by tens of billions.. not to mention a number of other agencies that shouldnt exist period, department of education for example, turn control over education back to the states, turn federal land over to the states where they belong, eliminate the BLM, enforcement of environment regulations can be under the jurisdiction of the single above federal law enforcement agency allowing you to eliminate the EPA, same with the FDA

theres just so many federal agencies that in large part do the same damn thing, or are complete useless, and overall account for hundreds of billions of the yearly budget

theres also a lot of waste and fraud in the welfare systems, social security as well, control should be turned over explicitly to the states to implement or eliminate how they see fit, and if NATO countries actually paid their fair share on their own military budgets, and acted like allies for a change, the US could cut a couple hundred bil off the defense budget too.. however at this point our military is not only protecting the united states, but the entirety of europe as well, they need to learn how to take care of themselves

and while we're at it.. lets stop giving money to damn near every other country on the planet, especially countries that we probably shouldnt be giving financial aid to to begin with

so yeah, we have one hell of an out of control spending problem

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#25 Posted by foxhound_fox (98011 posts) -

"I have a much bigger deficit than Obama ever did! It is yuge! Very big deficit, great deficit!"

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#26 Posted by Horgen (120858 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

"I have a much bigger deficit than Obama ever did! It is yuge! Very big deficit, great deficit!"

If he wins a second term, he could probably boast about that.

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#27 Edited by judaspete (3063 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:
@judaspete said:

@burntbyhellfire: Look, I think you might have more luck shifting people's opinion about things if you offered more specifics. "The government is wasteful and fraudulent", alright sure, but do you have some data or numbers to back up the statement. How much money is wasted, where is it wasted, what programs are redundant? I actually agree with you here, but you responed to a blanket statement about taxes with a blanket statement about waste. You're not gping to convince @blaznwiipspman1 any more than he convinced you of his point here.

For example, if I wanted to talk about how much money the military wastes, I might post a link to this story here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.980d729b9b33

I don't know, just a thought.

all i need is to point out the number of overlap in jurisdictions with many various bureaus within the federal government.. for example.. DEA, BATFE, DHS, NSA, FBI, us marshalls, and a half dozen others most people have never heard of, combine all of them into the jurisdiction of a single agency, reduce the overall budget of them by tens of billions.. not to mention a number of other agencies that shouldnt exist period, department of education for example, turn control over education back to the states, turn federal land over to the states where they belong, eliminate the BLM, enforcement of environment regulations can be under the jurisdiction of the single above federal law enforcement agency allowing you to eliminate the EPA, same with the FDA

theres just so many federal agencies that in large part do the same damn thing, or are complete useless, and overall account for hundreds of billions of the yearly budget

theres also a lot of waste and fraud in the welfare systems, social security as well, control should be turned over explicitly to the states to implement or eliminate how they see fit, and if NATO countries actually paid their fair share on their own military budgets, and acted like allies for a change, the US could cut a couple hundred bil off the defense budget too.. however at this point our military is not only protecting the united states, but the entirety of europe as well, they need to learn how to take care of themselves

and while we're at it.. lets stop giving money to damn near every other country on the planet, especially countries that we probably shouldnt be giving financial aid to to begin with

so yeah, we have one hell of an out of control spending problem

I'm a big liberal, but could get behind a lot of this. So thanks for going into more specifics.

Yeah, it does seem like in the mind of government, the solution to every problem is to give it it's own department. Consolidating law enforcement is an area Dems and GOPs could probably agree on if we did a better job listening to each other. Department of Education would be a harder sell but I think most people would agree it should be restructured in a way that gets more funding to schools and less to bureaucrats. That kind of thing happened for a bit back when Clinton and Gingrich actually talked to each other and phased out many redundant government positions. Didn't last long though.

I do think NATO is a dated organization that goaded Russia into back into being an adversary to justify it's own existence, but I don't think other member states spending more on their militaries would get us to spend much less on ours. We spend so much because a lot of wealthy, powerful, and well connected people make a lot of money from military contracts, and then spend a lot of that money lobbying congress hard. That's how we end up with all those Abrams Tanks the Pentagon wasn't asking for, or that trillion dollar dumpster fire they call the F-35. These things components are built all over the country in districts of both Republicans and Democrats in order to build bipartisan support for jacking up the defense budget on a whim. That $100 billion annual increase they got last year, 89 senators voted in favor of it. And for a little perspective, tuition free college would cost about $75 billion.

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#28 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10873 posts) -

@horgen said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

A trillion dollar deficit during a good economy with no overlapping budget from his predecessor, the GOP are a fiscal joke.

They increased by deficit by 50% in under 2 years. We have financial illiterates running our country.

They got donors to please. And Trump is keeping true to his word.

That's perfectly fine. Politicians have to appease donors and supporters. They just aren't allowed to carry the mantle of fiscal responsibility. They lost that decades ago.

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#29 Edited by JimB (2518 posts) -

@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

Lets not forget Obama spent more in his eight years than the forty-three presidents before him combined.

Avatar image for joebones5000
#30 Posted by joebones5000 (2615 posts) -

@JimB said:
@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

Lets not forget Obama spent more in his eight years than the forty-three presidents before him combined.

Was being forced to save the country from the last president instituting bad republican economic policy that caused the worst recession we have ever seen really Obama's fault?

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#31 Posted by warmblur (2753 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

"I have a much bigger deficit than Obama ever did! It is yuge! Very big deficit, great deficit!"

Very legal and very cool.

Avatar image for HoolaHoopMan
#32 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10873 posts) -

@JimB said:
@joebones5000 said:
@horgen said:
@burntbyhellfire said:

wasnt obamas first four years over a $1 trillion deficit?

Indeed. But he didn't have a booming economy like Trump did.

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

Lets not forget Obama spent more in his eight years than the forty-three presidents before him combined.

At over 100 trillion dollars!!!! Right Jimmy!?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#33 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166850 posts) -

@JimB said:
@joebones5000 said:

The first year of every president is the budget inherited from the previous president, so it was Bush's deficit in Obama's first year.

One could argue that through 2010, they were technically all Bush's as well, as deficits were high in response to the Great Bush Recession. I would not.

Lets not forget Obama spent more in his eight years than the forty-three presidents before him combined.

Fixing the mess the Republicans left.

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#34 Posted by sonicare (56793 posts) -

I'll say it again, the tax cuts were a terrible idea. During economic prosperity we need to be paying down the deficit.

Avatar image for blaznwiipspman1
#35 Edited by blaznwiipspman1 (7232 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@burntbyhellfire: I'm serious about everything. Pollution has a fixed cost, and the government should ram that cost down your throat if it has to. Every other country already has some form of carbon tax and I'd say half of the US does as well at the state level.

Spending is an issue, the biggest one being the military. The budget was $720 billion this year, a new all time record.

Also taxes exist for a reason. To fund many of the things the country needs to function. If you don't understand that, go live in a jungle and see how that works out for you. On top of that, taxes wouldn't need to be so high if the government got rid of the patent system once and for all. End patents, intellectual property rights, contract laws, trademarks etc and you can bring down the tax rate to less than 5% for all I care. You can't have these regulations and then ask for tax cuts at the same time. It's massive level of welfare for the rich and the ones getting screwed are the middle class.

Bring back the real free market or jack up the taxes on the rich up to 80% or more.

I would strongly prefer the first option. Th rich would prefer the second, I can promise you that. They love the welfare.

So bottom.line, yes those tax cuts are give aways and handouts. It is a giant scam and everyone should be outraged at the deficit being so high. Pathetic.

using the blanket statement that taxes fund things we need to justify wasteful and fraudulent spending is a stupid argument, and the military budget may be higher, but not enough higher to account for other costs. the federal government needs to cut back on a lot of spending, period, "the rich" could be taxed 100% and it wont even come close to paying for the shit you speak of, the bulk of the costs WILL fall on the middle working classes and thats something you need to get through your head.. working families WILL be paying for it

and do you know what happens if you end patents and intellectual property rights? you kill innovation, why invent something if you cannot market it? that's beyond stupid, and end trademark laws as well? so you're saying any asshole can create a knock off, put the companies logo on it and market it as the legitimate product, legally?.. no, just no, patents and copyright laws exist for a reason.. you should try running a business some time, see how far you get when you try to invent something and someone else with more money produces your idea at a faster rate than you can and earns millions while you get nothing

tell me, do you actually pay taxes? do you pay for your own food? housing? energy? do you not understand how your stupid carbon tax idea would raise the cost of all of this for everyone? do you not realize shit you order from amazon requires fuel to manufacture and transport, so with higher energy costs, will go up in price.. it'd certainly squeeze out the remaining US companies out of business and give our remaining jobs to china because nobody is going to pay for that shit

you really need to educate yourself in reality

what spending things exactly do you think im advocating for?? Im actually a conservative at heart, not the far right crack kind like a lot of nut jobs on gamespot and outside world. I side with the liberals/democrats because the right wing party has lost their marbles...a party of religious bible thumping wackjobs that are out to destroy the country. Im okay with spending cuts, but only if you also raise taxes as well. Like I said, balance the fuking budget at any cost necessary, then start paying down the debt. Do that until the debt number hits ZERO.

Also, I don't really give a shit about who innovates or who doesn't, get rid of the scam patent laws end of story. Its just a gigantic welfare give away to the rich and again its killing competition and providing massive welfare for the rich. This abomination should not be a part of any free market, and this level of government interference is just flat out communist. The logo doesn't mean anything, only the quality of the product / service matters. If someone can do a better job or make a better product even while ripping off your logo or whatever, that just means they are superior and they will have more customers. See how beautiful the free market is? No need for government interference. That's why I don't really care about the Chinese ripping off US patents, the patents are a scam in the first place. You can turn around and rip off Chinese patents, its give and take. You think the US respected so called scam "patent laws" at the end of WW2 when they pillaged superior german technology? HA! Don't make me laugh, so many idiots wet behind the ears smelling of mommas milk.

I pay for everything, what kind of stupid question is that? I really don't care if people can't afford it, as long as theres a cost to something then the product or service should reflect that. Again, trump has used massive tarrifs to force countries to do what he wants, he can easily force other countries to add a carbon tax so everyone is on an equal footing. Like I said, I really don't give a sht about people who are starving, or poor and cant afford gasoline or heating. Add the cost and charge whatever it costs on the free market to eliminate pollution and carbon emissions.