When the impeachment fails, who will you blame?

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R-Gamer

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#151  Edited By R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@zaryia: And you continue to call me some person I'm not and make up arguments that never happened. Again your obsession with incels is odd. This is another thing I notice from those on the left. Both are terribly unsuccessful with women but one harbors hate and is dangerous while the other is a pathetic white knight. Regardless your mention of them constantly is a bit odd.

And when you want to discuss facts let me know. So far you posted leftwing opinion pieces about how damaging the testimony is which is a fairly pointless argument since these are the same sources that have been doing this for the past three years. They will find anything against Trump damaging.

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Zaryia

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#152  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@zaryia: And you continue to call me some person I'm not and make up arguments that never happened. Again your obsession with incels is odd. This is another thing I notice from those on the left. Both are terribly unsuccessful with women but one harbors hate and is dangerous while the other is a pathetic white knight. Regardless your mention of them constantly is a bit odd.

And when you want to discuss facts let me know. So far you posted leftwing opinion pieces about how damaging the testimony is which is a fairly pointless argument since these are the same sources that have been doing this for the past three years. They will find anything against Trump damaging.

Back on topic: Is the content from all 17 Testimonies lies so far? (Please stop skipping this post and going to fake personal insults).

Also some news, which again are not Op-Eds which I try not to post here and typically do not post here.

READ: Testimony Of Jennifer Williams, Aide To Vice President Pence

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/779946508/read-testimony-of-jennifer-williams-aide-to-vice-president-pence

Republican congressman calls new details about Trump revealed in impeachment testimony 'alarming'

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/mike-turner-donald-trump-impeachment-inquiry-cnntv/index.html

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R-Gamer

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#153 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@zaryia: Most the relevant information of the testimonials are based off hearsay. So no none of it has been very reliable.

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Zaryia

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#154  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@zaryia: Most the relevant information of the testimonials are based off hearsay. So no none of it has been very reliable.

None? Sorry man but unless you have a method of traveling to alternate universes that just isn't true. Much of the latest two closed testimonies are both 1st hand. As was a decent part of Vindman's and Sondland's testimony. As well as portions of the other 10. So much evidence!

Also, even then the second hand accounts can count. These specifically being irrelevant and unreliable is your opinion and not always the rule:

Republicans blasted 'hearsay' impeachment testimony. But they were in Congress, not court.

Analysis: Even in judicial proceedings, there are over 30 situations where hearsay is reliable enough to be allowed into evidence.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/hearsay-might-be-barred-court-congressional-hearing-entirely-different-n1082111

Hearsay is a rule of evidence that applies to testimony made by witnesses who are unable to appear in court to offer (and defend) their testimony. Usually, those witnesses are “unable” to appear because they are dead or have fled the jurisdiction of the court. The Hearsay rule generally makes this kind of testimony inadmissible in a court of law (subject to over 20 exceptions) because we want juries to be able to assess the credibility of witnesses by hearing their testimony directly, if possible.

In this case, Donald Trump is not (yet) on trial. He is being investigated. Investigations are not subject to the Hearsay rule, because refusing to listen to all the evidence of a crime when you are trying to investigate that crime is ridiculous. The people who are testifying in this investigation are testifying to their recollections, and the credibility of those recollections can be assessed by the investigators, in this case Congress. Most important, there are no witnesses who are truly “unavailable”; rather, Donald Trump has made witnesses unavailable by refusing to let them submit to lawful subpoenas from Congress. To allow Trump to benefit from illegally making witnesses to his misconduct unavailable would be the equivalent of allowing a kingpin to benefit from killing his henchmen before trial.

Even if Trump is somehow allowed to get away with that, there are numerous other exceptions to the Hearsay rule that would apply if this were a trial, which it is not. There’s the “co-conspirator” exception for when statements are made “during the course and in furtherance of the conspiracy.” There’s the exception that allows people to testify to another’s state of mind. And there’s the “catch-all” exception that allows Hearsay testimony if witnesses are available and have been notified in advance that their statements will be offered at trial.

To recap: Hearsay doesn’t apply here. If it did, it would be Trump’s fault. If that didn’t matter, there are numerous exceptions available to allow this kind of testimony. Every Republican with a modicum of legal training who makes a “this is all hearsay” argument is an embarrassment to their profession, their country, and probably their family.

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N64DD

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#155 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia: lol nbc news.

You’re not even trying.

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Zaryia

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#156  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@n64dd said:

I mean I was throwing him a bone, the most damning testimonies are 1st hand so I honestly don't even have to defend 2nd hand testimonies. The two newest closed door ones, Vindman, Sondland, etc. I can link them all if you prefer. This is 100% a matter of fact, not my opinion.

That being said NBC is highly trusted and accurate. Please stop acting like I'm linking Infowars, Breitbart, FOX, or Op-Eds from CNN. Or some blog. That's just fiction on your part.

Can you even refute the link? Like any real reply or rebuttal? Anything other than weird one-liners copied from a Trump tweet?

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Zaryia

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#157 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@n64dd s

What are you thoughts on the 2 newest closed door testimonies that BOTH corroborate the new phone call Bill Taylor mentioned? Both first hand info.

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N64DD

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#158  Edited By N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia: yeah the transcipts and all the actual officlals involved disagree with people politically motivated to go after Trump.

You tend to make people guilty before everything is laid out.

NBC is pure shit.

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narlymech

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#160 narlymech
Member since 2009 • 2132 Posts

@joebones5000:

When was there never first hand evidence. You have Trumps own words on several occasions.

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N64DD

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#161 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@narlymech: Don’t mind joe bones, he’s an alt, and he embarrassingly left this site after talking so much shit about hillary was 100 percent going to win last election.

Transcripts of the call and the people

actually involved contradict heresay/testimony from non-players.

This is the democrats hail mary because they apparently can’t beat the stupidest, worst president thats ever won. What does that say about your party?

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horgen

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#162 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127502 Posts

@n64dd said:

@horgen

You can lock this since there is a sticky.

Aight.