What was the science behind the "hug a Chinese" campaign in Italy to stop the virus?

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Maxpowers_32

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#1  Edited By Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

As the Wuhan virus was spreading the Mayor of Florence Dario Nardella has suggested residents hug Chinese people to encourage them in the fight against the novel coronavirus.

Since liberals claim their actions are science based, what was the scientific evidence that hugging people would help to stop the spread of the virus? Were there double blind tests of Italians who hugged Chinese people and those who didn't to determine which group was more likely to come down with the virus?

Do you think that it was smart policy to help stem the spread of the virus? Why is it the WHO and CDC now saying to avoid close contact including shaking hands? What changed about the method of transmission? Would you go to an area with a large number of people infected with the virus and go around hugging random people?

To my non-scientific mind it almost sounds like one of the worst things you could do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=40&v=mNMdg4morQs&feature=emb_logo

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#2 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

https://summit.news/2020/03/12/mayor-of-florence-encouraged-italians-to-hug-a-chinese-before-coronavirus-pandemic-hit/

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Vaasman

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#3 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15636 Posts

lol at Summit's biased shit, but even then it specifically says in your article the movement was to counter racism against Chinese folks. Do you like racism?

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Maroxad

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#4  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

There is nothing scientific about it but there is also nothing unscientific about it.

HOWEVER, the campaign is outright about fighting racism. And that ultimately is a good goal. Racism, Panic, and many other idiotic mistakes we do are not helping but rather making the coronavirus situation worse.

By attacking chinese, we are ultimately acting to look for a scapegoat, rather than trying to look for a solution. And the solution is ultimately us. It is WE (and everyone else) who need to take responsibility for our own health. It discourages co-operation between people when in an epidemic co-operation is needed by EVERYONE.

We also need to learn lesson from this, and if the lesson we learn from those is... "It is those chinese", then that seriously diminishes our ability to prevent another epidemic/pandemic from occuring where we live. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the origin of the disease, but racism against chinese is the singlehandedly most idiotic thing one could do about the Coronavirus. Good job actively breaking it.

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#5 KungfuKitten
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@Vaasman said:

lol at Summit's biased shit, but even then it specifically says in your article the movement was to counter racism against Chinese folks. Do you like racism?

I don't think that's a good defence. If I don't like racism I shouldn't do dumb things. It just doesn't make it a good idea.

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#6 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 7036 Posts

@Maroxad said:

There is nothing scientific about it but there is also nothing scientific about it.

You can say that again.

Lets just not hug until it is straightened out.

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#7  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15636 Posts

@KungfuKitten said:
@Vaasman said:

lol at Summit's biased shit, but even then it specifically says in your article the movement was to counter racism against Chinese folks. Do you like racism?

I don't think that's a good defence. If I don't like racism I shouldn't do dumb things. It just doesn't make it a good idea.

On the other hand, sewing resentment against other ethnicities for a pandemic that really wasn't in their control is beneath us. The movement presumably isn't literally telling you to hug it's telling you to stop trying to foist blame, resentment, and anger based on race.

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mrbojangles25

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#8 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58838 Posts

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise, because people don't want to be hugged by strangers. Maybe don't hug people in the middle of an epidemic.

There really is nothing to politicize here, I know progressives and conservatives and liberals and I can say none of them think hugging people in the middle of an epidemic is a good idea.

@KungfuKitten said:
@Vaasman said:

lol at Summit's biased shit, but even then it specifically says in your article the movement was to counter racism against Chinese folks. Do you like racism?

I don't think that's a good defence. If I don't like racism I shouldn't do dumb things. It just doesn't make it a good idea.

People think doing a good action, dumb or otherwise, is enough; they don't consider the fact they might hug someone and get sick, therefore making the whole idea backfire on them. In some regards, these people might actually be doing the racists of the world a favor.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" as they say.

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#9 Maroxad
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@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise

This is really how they should have done it.

Responding to an epidemic with racism, can seriously damage our critical thinking faculties, lead to a false sense of security among non-asian people and risk making us complacent "it wasnt us who brought the infection upon the world".

But hugging people, especially with a virus as infectious as this is also a really bad idea, they could end up hugging one infected person, only to carry on hugging an uninfected person.

Racist or Hug-A-Chinese, both camps are endangering themselves.

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#10 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise

This is really how they should have done it.

Responding to an epidemic with racism, can seriously damage our critical thinking faculties, lead to a false sense of security among non-asian people and risk making us complacent "it wasnt us who brought the infection upon the world".

But hugging people, especially with a virus as infectious as this is also a really bad idea, they could end up hugging one infected person, only to carry on hugging an uninfected person.

Racist or Hug-A-Chinese, both camps are endangering themselves.

They knew they were fighting a contagious virus and encouraged people to go around hugging people from the area where the virus originated. Now Italy is in complete lockdown and many people are sick. Maybe I should have asked the question better, but is hugging people scientifically a good way to stop the spread of the virus?

Of course racism is bad, but common sense is good. So was Italy's leftist response scientifically sound? Do you think it helped or hurt the spread of the virus?

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jeezers

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#11 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

I havent even been shaking hands with people while working with all the panic going on, why in the hell would i want to hug people.

How bout we dont touch strangers while this virus stuff is going on

Was talking to a customer earlier today, we bumped elbows and laughed about it.

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#12  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58838 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:
@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise

This is really how they should have done it.

Responding to an epidemic with racism, can seriously damage our critical thinking faculties, lead to a false sense of security among non-asian people and risk making us complacent "it wasnt us who brought the infection upon the world".

But hugging people, especially with a virus as infectious as this is also a really bad idea, they could end up hugging one infected person, only to carry on hugging an uninfected person.

Racist or Hug-A-Chinese, both camps are endangering themselves.

They knew they were fighting a contagious virus and encouraged people to go around hugging people from the area where the virus originated. Now Italy is in complete lockdown and many people are sick. Maybe I should have asked the question better, but is hugging people scientifically a good way to stop the spread of the virus?

Of course racism is bad, but common sense is good. So was Italy's leftist response scientifically sound? Do you think it helped or hurt the spread of the virus?

I feel like you're trying to prove a point and asking a rhetorical question.

Of course it was not scientifically sound.

Now, what is your point? Liberals are the devil? I got news for you: idiots are the devil, not liberals. Just like when an idiot from the right says he has a "hunch" that the coronavirus is not that bad and the scientists are wrong (like Trump did).

Be an adult and stop politicizing everything. Trump is an idiot. Leftist Italians are idiots. People buying all the toilet paper in stores are idiots.

@jeezers said:

was talking to a customer earlier today, we bumped elbows and laughed about it.

Oh boy, you definitely have it now. Sorry bro

:D

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#13  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:
@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise

This is really how they should have done it.

Responding to an epidemic with racism, can seriously damage our critical thinking faculties, lead to a false sense of security among non-asian people and risk making us complacent "it wasnt us who brought the infection upon the world".

But hugging people, especially with a virus as infectious as this is also a really bad idea, they could end up hugging one infected person, only to carry on hugging an uninfected person.

Racist or Hug-A-Chinese, both camps are endangering themselves.

They knew they were fighting a contagious virus and encouraged people to go around hugging people from the area where the virus originated. Now Italy is in complete lockdown and many people are sick. Maybe I should have asked the question better, but is hugging people scientifically a good way to stop the spread of the virus?

Of course racism is bad, but common sense is good. So was Italy's leftist response scientifically sound? Do you think it helped or hurt the spread of the virus?

At this point, hugging ANY stranger is a bad idea. So yes, these leftists are stupid if that is the answer you wanted.

Someone being chinese has NOTHING to do with it.

This is exactly what I mean about false sense of security from people who aren't chinese.

Honestly, the racists these people are trying to counter are worse.

Unless we know exactly how highly represented the virus is in each demographic in italy, I cannot say if a Chinese person living in Italy is more likely to be infected than a non-chinese italian. At this point, Italy is severely underequipped to deal with the pandemic. China is sending doctors and gear to help them contain it. Idiots being racist or assuming that chinese people are more likely to infect people can only hurt relations, which may cause rifts between these chinese physicians and people who actually need the help. The racism some asians face, may even go as far as to discourage them from employing good medical practices such as wearing a facemask, citing safety over health.

Doctors have been telling us to avoid this racism, and quite frankly, I agree with them. They have also told us to avoid touching other people too.

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#14 SUD123456
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Obviously a dumb idea, both at the time and now. The sentiment was fine both then and now. The proposed action was stupid, but it appears far stupider today than at the time since there were few Italian cases at the time and Florence wasn't a hotspot. No science, never was science, have no idea why you are asking for science when there never was and no one ever thought there was....except the fact that you are trolling.

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#15 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

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#16 mrbojangles25
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@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

Hah! Nice word.

And you are totally correct of course.

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#17 Jacanuk
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@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise, because people don't want to be hugged by strangers. Maybe don't hug people in the middle of an epidemic.

There really is nothing to politicize here, I know progressives and conservatives and liberals and I can say none of them think hugging people in the middle of an epidemic is a good idea.

Well, this pretty much sums it up.

Also, it looks like the initiative has backfired.

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#18 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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@mrbojangles25 said:
@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

Hah! Nice word.

And you are totally correct of course.

I wish i coined it, but i've seen it used all the time. Lol.

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#19 AJStyles
Member since 2018 • 1430 Posts

I just imagined thousands of Italians running up to Chinese people randomally and hugging them.

How awkward would that be?

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#20 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

Virtual signaling cuckolds are incapable of critically thinking for themselves.

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#21 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@Maxpowers_32 said:
@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

It would have been better to argue that maybe don't hug people, chinese or otherwise

This is really how they should have done it.

Responding to an epidemic with racism, can seriously damage our critical thinking faculties, lead to a false sense of security among non-asian people and risk making us complacent "it wasnt us who brought the infection upon the world".

But hugging people, especially with a virus as infectious as this is also a really bad idea, they could end up hugging one infected person, only to carry on hugging an uninfected person.

Racist or Hug-A-Chinese, both camps are endangering themselves.

They knew they were fighting a contagious virus and encouraged people to go around hugging people from the area where the virus originated. Now Italy is in complete lockdown and many people are sick. Maybe I should have asked the question better, but is hugging people scientifically a good way to stop the spread of the virus?

Of course racism is bad, but common sense is good. So was Italy's leftist response scientifically sound? Do you think it helped or hurt the spread of the virus?

At this point, hugging ANY stranger is a bad idea. So yes, these leftists are stupid if that is the answer you wanted.

Someone being chinese has NOTHING to do with it.

This is exactly what I mean about false sense of security from people who aren't chinese.

Honestly, the racists these people are trying to counter are worse.

Unless we know exactly how highly represented the virus is in each demographic in italy, I cannot say if a Chinese person living in Italy is more likely to be infected than a non-chinese italian. At this point, Italy is severely underequipped to deal with the pandemic. China is sending doctors and gear to help them contain it. Idiots being racist or assuming that chinese people are more likely to infect people can only hurt relations, which may cause rifts between these chinese physicians and people who actually need the help. The racism some asians face, may even go as far as to discourage them from employing good medical practices such as wearing a facemask, citing safety over health.

Doctors have been telling us to avoid this racism, and quite frankly, I agree with them. They have also told us to avoid touching other people too.

So the campaign to hug a Chinese person when it was known that the virus originated in China and was being spread by Chinese was not a smart idea based on science? This was before the virus had spread worldwide. Just to be clear, if there is a highly contageous and deadly virus that you know originated in China would the best bet to avoid the spread be:

(a) check people coming from areas where the virus has spread and quarantine those who have the virus. In this case the virus was originally only in China

(b) have a "hug the people from the infected area campaign" to combat racism and the stigma people may feel towards the regions where the virus has spread

The reason I asked was that I'm experiencing cognitive dissidence and trying to resolve it. On the one hand I'm constantly being told that liberals "believe in science" and base their decisions on science. On the other hand they have policies like the one in the OP to combat "racism". Which is it? Is it xenophobic for countries without any infections to want to screen people who are from or have traveled to areas with the infection?

When the virus started it only existed in China. So if Italy didn't allow anyone from China or who had contact with anyone i China they would have saved countless lives and the economic/social problems caused by the virus. Instead they did nothing to stop infected people from coming. Here's another sincere question...

What's more important to liberals. (a) People's lives and the economy of the country and aggressively fighting a contagious virus or (b) showing has aggressive you are fighting "racism" by allowing people you know are infected to come in and infect people you know will die as a result?

Would it be "racist" to not allow Chinese or people who could have had contact with infected people into the country until the virus is gone, then encourage the Chinese to come in and assist in the efforts?

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#22 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts
@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

That's what I'm trying to do and I'm trying to figure out what tools are avaliable to do it and the best method.

So encouraging people to hug those who are from an area with a high infection rate is not a good idea? West Virginia has no confirmed cases, so they shouldn't setup a "people not viruses" campaign and encourage them to find people from states with a high rate of infections and hug them?

Is it ok to close borders to prevent people who may have the virus from coming in or is that still considered "racist or "xenophobic"? Biden said that it was xenophobic. Is that a scientifically sound way of combating the virus since he says he is pro science and he listens to scientist. What do infectious disease scientist think about having border control vs. letting in anyone who shows up as a method of fighting a deadly virus?

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#23 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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@Maxpowers_32 said:
@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

That's what I'm trying to do and I'm trying to figure out what tools are avaliable to do it and the best method.

So encouraging people to hug those who are from an area with a high infection rate is not a good idea? West Virginia has no confirmed cases, so they shouldn't setup a "people not viruses" campaign and encourage them to find people from states with a high rate of infections and hug them?

Is it ok to close borders to prevent people who may have the virus from coming in or is that still considered "racist or "xenophobic"? Biden said that it was xenophobic. Is that a scientifically sound way of combating the virus since he says he is pro science and he listens to scientist. What do infectious disease scientist think about having border control vs. letting in anyone who shows up as a method of fighting a deadly virus?

There's no reason to be patronizing like that.

Obviously, hugging random people is not advisable during the middle of a pandemic. That's a poorly thought out campaign. Likewise, multiple politicians and political leaders have made multiple mistakes in the early phases of this pandemic. But it's really not helpful to have each political side screaming, "gotcha!" and touting that as some political win. We should be working together for the best outcome. I fail to see how divisive partisanship makes this crisis better.

As for what infectious disease doctors will tell you about border control and the spread of this disease, I suspect they'd say that it likely came to the US from legal citizens returning from abroad, from tourists and business people legally visiting the US, etc. I dont think the spread of this new virus has been linked to illegal aliens crossing the southern border.

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#24  Edited By R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@Maroxad: Chinese isn't a race... Jesus christ the ignorance on this forum and among the left is cringe inducing. When we start blaming Asians then it becomes racist. When you blame the Chinese you acknowledge that a nation that happens to be Asian is widely responsible.

If Poland was responsible for the Virus would we be calling it racist?

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#25 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58838 Posts

@sonicare said:
@Maxpowers_32 said:
@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

That's what I'm trying to do and I'm trying to figure out what tools are avaliable to do it and the best method.

So encouraging people to hug those who are from an area with a high infection rate is not a good idea? West Virginia has no confirmed cases, so they shouldn't setup a "people not viruses" campaign and encourage them to find people from states with a high rate of infections and hug them?

Is it ok to close borders to prevent people who may have the virus from coming in or is that still considered "racist or "xenophobic"? Biden said that it was xenophobic. Is that a scientifically sound way of combating the virus since he says he is pro science and he listens to scientist. What do infectious disease scientist think about having border control vs. letting in anyone who shows up as a method of fighting a deadly virus?

There's no reason to be patronizing like that.

Obviously, hugging random people is not advisable during the middle of a pandemic. That's a poorly thought out campaign. Likewise, multiple politicians and political leaders have made multiple mistakes in the early phases of this pandemic. But it's really not helpful to have each political side screaming, "gotcha!" and touting that as some political win. We should be working together for the best outcome. I fail to see how divisive partisanship makes this crisis better.

As for what infectious disease doctors will tell you about border control and the spread of this disease, I suspect they'd say that it likely came to the US from legal citizens returning from abroad, from tourists and business people legally visiting the US, etc. I dont think the spread of this new virus has been linked to illegal aliens crossing the southern border.

Dude is just looking for justifications to hate on liberals. I don't think he is, or ever was, legitimately asking a question.

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#26  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@Maroxad: Chinese isn't a race... Jesus christ the ignorance on this forum and among the left is cringe inducing. When we start blaming Asians then it becomes racist. When you blame the Chinese you acknowledge that a nation that happens to be Asian is widely responsible.

If Poland was responsible for the Virus would we be calling it racist?

I never said Chinese was a race. Work on your reading comprehension skills.

The fact of the matter is that non-chinese asians are being targetted too.

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#27  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts
@Maxpowers_32 said:

So the campaign to hug a Chinese person when it was known that the virus originated in China and was being spread by Chinese was not a smart idea based on science? This was before the virus had spread worldwide. Just to be clear, if there is a highly contageous and deadly virus that you know originated in China would the best bet to avoid the spread be:

(a) check people coming from areas where the virus has spread and quarantine those who have the virus. In this case the virus was originally only in China

(b) have a "hug the people from the infected area campaign" to combat racism and the stigma people may feel towards the regions where the virus has spread

The reason I asked was that I'm experiencing cognitive dissidence and trying to resolve it. On the one hand I'm constantly being told that liberals "believe in science" and base their decisions on science. On the other hand they have policies like the one in the OP to combat "racism". Which is it? Is it xenophobic for countries without any infections to want to screen people who are from or have traveled to areas with the infection?

When the virus started it only existed in China. So if Italy didn't allow anyone from China or who had contact with anyone i China they would have saved countless lives and the economic/social problems caused by the virus. Instead they did nothing to stop infected people from coming. Here's another sincere question...

What's more important to liberals. (a) People's lives and the economy of the country and aggressively fighting a contagious virus or (b) showing has aggressive you are fighting "racism" by allowing people you know are infected to come in and infect people you know will die as a result?

Would it be "racist" to not allow Chinese or people who could have had contact with infected people into the country until the virus is gone, then encourage the Chinese to come in and assist in the efforts?

It isnt just being spread by the chinese anymore. Odds are the disease spread via tourists, either business or otherwise. To the rest of the world. Given that the disease takes quite some time to show symptoms, and how important international trade and tourism is to our economy. This is the most likely reason. Why would a chinese person living in italy for 5 years be more likely to contract the SARS-CoV-2 Virus.

Again, the problem with the bigotry against chinese, is that this will do nothing to help international relations. And what we need in order to properly fight this outbreak is international co-operation. It is quite literally, self-sabotage. The bigotry, behind a lot of the bigots, does nothing but harm.

There is a reason Doctors specifically told us to be wary, but not hysteric. The attitudes you seem to defend forgets the latter. The Hug a Chinese campaign forgets the former.

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#28 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@Maroxad: You said it was to combat racism. Blaming China isn't racist..

Stop with the ignorance.

When we blame Russia for things do you here any campaign's to stop racism?

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#29 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@Maroxad: You said it was to combat racism. Blaming China isn't racist..

Stop with the ignorance.

When we blame Russia for things do you here any campaign's to stop racism?

What part of "The fact of the matter is that non-chinese asians are being targetted too." don't you understand? I can guide you through the process slowly... if you want to.

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#30  Edited By R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@r-gamer: Again the blanket racism assumption

Show me proof? Where are Asians being mistreated because of the Virus? Show me a massive rise in hate crimes that have occurred.

A couple of rare instances being brought up by the media to act like there has been this massive spike in hate crime isn't really a cause for open boarders and hugs... especially not in this situation.

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#31  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@r-gamer: Again the blanket racism assumption

Show me proof? Where are Asians being mistreated because of the Virus? Show me a massive rise in hate crimes that have occurred.

A couple of rare instances being brought up by the media to act like there has been this massive spike in hate crime isn't really a cause for open boarders and hugs... especially not in this situation.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

Who exactly is advocating for open borders, as a result of a spike of hate crimes?

Proof only exists in mathematics and logic. As far as I know, we don't have any exact data yet. But the fact of the matter is, when we are getting crap like this, https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/17/chinese-students-flee-uk-after-maskaphobia-triggered-racist-attacks

And then https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/covid19-singapore-italy-lockdown-concerns-coronavirus-racism-12520994

These are anecdotal, but I am hearing stories like this all the time. It is frequent enough to become a problem. And as it seems to target all east asians, rather than just chinese, it is safe to say this is racism.

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#32 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@Maroxad: A few anecdotal cases isn't reason to advocate hugs. It's absolute nonsense.

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#33 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@Maroxad: A few anecdotal cases isn't reason to advocate hugs. It's absolute nonsense.

No one here is defending the hugs.

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#34 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@sonicare said:
@Maxpowers_32 said:
@sonicare said:

There's always a stupid attempt to make everything political. We're in the middle of a pandemic, put aside silly partisan politics and blamestorming for a bit. Focus on fighting this thing.

That's what I'm trying to do and I'm trying to figure out what tools are avaliable to do it and the best method.

So encouraging people to hug those who are from an area with a high infection rate is not a good idea? West Virginia has no confirmed cases, so they shouldn't setup a "people not viruses" campaign and encourage them to find people from states with a high rate of infections and hug them?

Is it ok to close borders to prevent people who may have the virus from coming in or is that still considered "racist or "xenophobic"? Biden said that it was xenophobic. Is that a scientifically sound way of combating the virus since he says he is pro science and he listens to scientist. What do infectious disease scientist think about having border control vs. letting in anyone who shows up as a method of fighting a deadly virus?

There's no reason to be patronizing like that.

Obviously, hugging random people is not advisable during the middle of a pandemic. That's a poorly thought out campaign. Likewise, multiple politicians and political leaders have made multiple mistakes in the early phases of this pandemic. But it's really not helpful to have each political side screaming, "gotcha!" and touting that as some political win. We should be working together for the best outcome. I fail to see how divisive partisanship makes this crisis better.

As for what infectious disease doctors will tell you about border control and the spread of this disease, I suspect they'd say that it likely came to the US from legal citizens returning from abroad, from tourists and business people legally visiting the US, etc. I dont think the spread of this new virus has been linked to illegal aliens crossing the southern border.

Dude is just looking for justifications to hate on liberals. I don't think he is, or ever was, legitimately asking a question.

Huh? I'm not looking for justification to hate on liberals. I'm asking a question about how to reconcile liberals saying they base their decisions on science after hating on Pence for "not believing in science" as justification to say he shouldn't head the virus task force with the policy of encouraging citizens to hug those that they believed were infected with the virus.

I'm asking about specific recommendations given, which was to find people from China right after we found out the virus originated in China and hug them. Not just anyone from China, but those they believed were infected. Given the information avaliable at the time, which is that the virus came from China. Not only that, but the Italians decided to open "bridges of understanding, not walls of hate" and allow people from the areas they knew had the virus to enter the country.

This is not a hypothetical, this actually happened. In liberals minds was it worth infecting and killing Italian people in order to show the world they're not racist and combat the evil racism of normal Italian people towards Chinese that they created in their mind.

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#35 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@r-gamer said:

@r-gamer: Again the blanket racism assumption

Show me proof? Where are Asians being mistreated because of the Virus? Show me a massive rise in hate crimes that have occurred.

A couple of rare instances being brought up by the media to act like there has been this massive spike in hate crime isn't really a cause for open boarders and hugs... especially not in this situation.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

Who exactly is advocating for open borders, as a result of a spike of hate crimes?

Proof only exists in mathematics and logic. As far as I know, we don't have any exact data yet. But the fact of the matter is, when we are getting crap like this, https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/17/chinese-students-flee-uk-after-maskaphobia-triggered-racist-attacks

And then https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/covid19-singapore-italy-lockdown-concerns-coronavirus-racism-12520994

These are anecdotal, but I am hearing stories like this all the time. It is frequent enough to become a problem. And as it seems to target all east asians, rather than just chinese, it is safe to say this is racism.

The fact of the matter is Trump said that it was a bad idea to allow people to enter a country that haven't done a health screening as they could be carrying a disease that we don't have in the US and people said it was racist. Now most countries are closing their borders due to the pandemic.

"The Democrats however, for strictly political reasons and because they have been pulled so far left, do NOT want Border Security. They want Open Borders for anyone to come in. This brings large scale crime and disease"

Would having a wall and not allowing people in the country who haven't been screened help or hurt in the fight against the pandemic? Maybe instead of calling everything "racist" people should actually look at the data and follow basic laws. Again, liberals claim they are the party of science but do everything based on slogans and people are dying as a result

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#36 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178946 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

The fact of the matter is Trump said that it was a bad idea to allow people to enter a country that haven't done a health screening as they could be carrying a disease that we don't have in the US and people said it was racist. Now most countries are closing their borders due to the pandemic.

"The Democrats however, for strictly political reasons and because they have been pulled so far left, do NOT want Border Security. They want Open Borders for anyone to come in. This brings large scale crime and disease"

Would having a wall and not allowing people in the country who haven't been screened help or hurt in the fight against the pandemic? Maybe instead of calling everything "racist" people should actually look at the data and follow basic laws. Again, liberals claim they are the party of science but do everything based on slogans and people are dying as a result

Using a pandemic to spout xenophobia. How republican of you.

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#37 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: xenophobia my ass, hes right

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#38 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178946 Posts

@jeezers said:

@LJS9502_basic: xenophobia my ass, hes right

His second paragraph clearly shows his agenda. And had nothing to do with the virus.

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#39 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6980 Posts

@jeezers said:

@LJS9502_basic: xenophobia my ass, hes right

LOL. Could you point me to where 'the Democrats' want an 'Open Border' for 'anyone to come in'?

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#40 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jeezers said:

@LJS9502_basic: xenophobia my ass, hes right

His second paragraph clearly shows his agenda. And had nothing to do with the virus.

What? Showed my agenda? Quoting the president about a basic policy that would help protect the country from this current virus and many other potential diseases if it had been in place? The virus is a disease that was brought in from outside the country. Right now we (and everyone else) are trying to keep people from entering that haven't been properly screened. If you have a giant migrant caravan or random people from all over the earth sneaking into the country they are not being screened.

This basic tenant of any country which is knowing who comes in and doing basic screening to ensure they aren't a danger to its citizens is opposed by the Democratic party. With this current virus Biden called it Xenophobic and hysteria to not allow flights from China. Going to far as to say "we will lead with science". This goes back to my original question about the science behind hugging someone potentially infected with the coronavirus. How is letting people into the country from an area with a huge number of people carrying the virus "leading with science"? Are all the countries now implementing travel bans also xenophobic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAdzW-mRKTk

Was it smart policy for the leaders from NYC to tell people "the risk to new yorkers from coronavirus is low" and to go to festivals, on the subway, parades, restaurants, etc"? Seems like a pattern of bad advice from the "party of science"

https://youtu.be/tNflR2Ia7Hc?t=23

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#41 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@Maxpowers_32 said:

The fact of the matter is Trump said that it was a bad idea to allow people to enter a country that haven't done a health screening as they could be carrying a disease that we don't have in the US and people said it was racist. Now most countries are closing their borders due to the pandemic.

"The Democrats however, for strictly political reasons and because they have been pulled so far left, do NOT want Border Security. They want Open Borders for anyone to come in. This brings large scale crime and disease"

Would having a wall and not allowing people in the country who haven't been screened help or hurt in the fight against the pandemic? Maybe instead of calling everything "racist" people should actually look at the data and follow basic laws. Again, liberals claim they are the party of science but do everything based on slogans and people are dying as a result

Using a pandemic to spout xenophobia. How republican of you.

Calling someone names rather than discuss any issues. That's the modern democratic party. Guess you see that you can't refute the basic facts so you call me names. How mature of you.

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#42  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 24136 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

The fact of the matter is Trump said that it was a bad idea to allow people to enter a country that haven't done a health screening as they could be carrying a disease that we don't have in the US and people said it was racist. Now most countries are closing their borders due to the pandemic.

"The Democrats however, for strictly political reasons and because they have been pulled so far left, do NOT want Border Security. They want Open Borders for anyone to come in. This brings large scale crime and disease"

Would having a wall and not allowing people in the country who haven't been screened help or hurt in the fight against the pandemic? Maybe instead of calling everything "racist" people should actually look at the data and follow basic laws. Again, liberals claim they are the party of science but do everything based on slogans and people are dying as a result

What the hell are you talking about? Trump isnt being accused of being racist, because of that. He is being accused of being racist for other things related to this. Nobody is particularly advocating for open borders at this time.

Yes, screening would help. Screen everyone who comes into a country is not a bad idea.

Building a wall is futile. That is why reasonable people oppose it. There are so many ways to circumvent a wall they simply put aren't effective for the scale Trump wants one with. And there is a ton of academic papers written on this. Paperweight.

Science is a methodology, not a buzzword. And democrats got multiple factions in it.

Neoliberals are very scientific. As they are more empirically driven than ideologically driven.

Progressives are not particularly scientific. Being more ideologically driven than empirically.

But both of these are far, FAR more scientifically minded than Trumpettes.

And an FYI, merely looking at data, is not scientific thinking. That is what most pseudoscience does actually. Scrutinizing data, however is what a scientifically minded person would do.

I am no american, but I wouldnt go around assuming Americans (who now have the highest number of confirmed cases) are more likely to carry the virus. Just because they are american. Because of the following.

1. The data only shows the number of confirmed cases. There could be many current unconfirmed cases which could turn out positive.

2. The data could be lower in certain countries due to government censorship/deception.

3. The number of cases is a very small part of a much larger picture. Epidemologists don't spend 4 years in college learning how to look at a basic graph. It goes deeper, way, way deeper. A number alone wont give you a very clear picture of what is going on.

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#43  Edited By Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

What the...? This was actually a marketing campaign?

Might be the worst idea ever.

It’s official - progressives are not smart.

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#44 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Vaasman said:

lol at Summit's biased shit, but even then it specifically says in your article the movement was to counter racism against Chinese folks. Do you like racism?

I'm 1/4 East Asian and I dislike CCP.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who-as-chinese-health-organization-japan-slams-un-body-for-giving-into-chinas-spin/393961/

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-china/taiwan-doubles-down-on-virus-criticism-as-china-denounces-disgusting-behavior-idUSKBN21C16U

Taiwan doubles down on virus criticism as China denounces 'disgusting' behavior

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#45  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15636 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@Vaasman said:

Do you like racism?

I'm 1/4 East Asian and I dislike CCP.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who-as-chinese-health-organization-japan-slams-un-body-for-giving-into-chinas-spin/393961/

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-china/taiwan-doubles-down-on-virus-criticism-as-china-denounces-disgusting-behavior-idUSKBN21C16U

Taiwan doubles down on virus criticism as China denounces 'disgusting' behavior

You're conflating Chinese visitors and immigrants in Italy with the actions of the CCP? And what exactly are you trying to justify by doing so, I wonder?

I guess the answer was yes.

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#46 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@ronvalencia said:

I'm 1/4 East Asian and I dislike CCP.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who-as-chinese-health-organization-japan-slams-un-body-for-giving-into-chinas-spin/393961/

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-china/taiwan-doubles-down-on-virus-criticism-as-china-denounces-disgusting-behavior-idUSKBN21C16U

Taiwan doubles down on virus criticism as China denounces 'disgusting' behavior

You're conflating Chinese visitors and immigrants in Italy with the actions of the CCP?

I guess the answer was yes.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/second-developer-flies-82-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-to-china-20200326-p54e8n.html

A second Chinese property company based in Sydney flew more than 80 tonnes of medical supplies on a corporate jet to Wuhan in late February, at the time coronavirus was devastating the regional city

--------------

https://www.smh.com.au/national/former-chinese-military-man-behind-export-of-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-20200330-p54f8a.html

A former Chinese military officer worked with Chinese Communist Party agencies and a group with links to organised crime to export tonnes of Australian medical supplies to Wuhan at the height of the coronavirus epidemic there

--------------

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-chinese-ppe-border-force-intercepted/12085908

Australia seizes faulty coronavirus protective equipment imported from China

You're a naive fool.

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#47  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts
@SUD123456 said:
@jeezers said:

@LJS9502_basic: xenophobia my ass, hes right

LOL. Could you point me to where 'the Democrats' want an 'Open Border' for 'anyone to come in'?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/

Do you support extending the existing physical barriers on the U.S.-Mexico border?

NO

These candidates said they would not support adding any more wall along the Southern border

Sanders

-----------

ONLY IF EXPERTS RECOMMEND IT

Others said they would consider the input of experts and local communities before ruling it out

Gabbard

------------

UNCLEAR/NO RESPONSE

Candidates who do not appear to have addressed the question, or who have not returned responses.

Biden

--------------

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/12/759442642/immigration-where-2020-democratic-candidates-stand-on-border-crossings-and-more

Decriminalize illegal border crossings

YESCory Booker

“I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again now — we have to do the right thing and decriminalize border crossing,” Booker tweeted in June. (Source: Twitter)

YESPete Buttigieg

“Mayor Pete believes that unlawful crossings of the border should be handled through the civil legal process, not through criminal law. Those who unlawfully reenter the border, commit fraud or put Americans at risk may still be processed through the criminal system.” (Source: Campaign email to NPR)

YESJulián Castro

“Sec. Castro was the first candidate to propose removing criminal penalties for unauthorized border crossings,” his campaign wrote in an email. “The act would continue to be against the law, with civil penalties applied, but would prevent families from being separated again.” (Source: Campaign email to NPR)

YESKamala Harris

Harris raised her hand at a June debate when candidates were asked about whether they would like to decriminalize illegal border crossings. (Source: HuffPost)

YESWayne Messam

Messam told The Washington Post that he would decriminalize illegal border crossings. (Source: The Washington Post)

YESBernie Sanders

“Bernie believes crossing the border should be a civil, not a criminal, offense. He believes that no human being is illegal, and we should not treat families who travel thousands of miles to escape violence and misery as criminals.” (Source: Campaign email to NPR)

YESJoe Sestak

“I would repeal Section 1325 as part of a broader comprehensive immigration reform compromise, making illegal border crossing a civil but not criminal issue, although if nothing can be accomplished through bipartisan negotiation, I would move to repeal Section 1325 by the end of my 1st term.” (Source: Campaign email to NPR)

YESTom Steyer

Steyer told The New York Times in July that he wants to decriminalize illegal border crossings. (Source: The New York Times)

YESElizabeth Warren

“As president, [Warren] will immediately issue guidance to end criminal prosecutions for simple administrative immigration violations.” (Source: Campaign email to NPR)

YESMarianne Williamson

Williamson raised her hand at a June debate when the candidates were asked whether they would decriminalize illegal border crossings. (Source: HuffPost)

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#48 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15636 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@Vaasman said:
@ronvalencia said:

I'm 1/4 East Asian and I dislike CCP.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who-as-chinese-health-organization-japan-slams-un-body-for-giving-into-chinas-spin/393961/

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-china/taiwan-doubles-down-on-virus-criticism-as-china-denounces-disgusting-behavior-idUSKBN21C16U

Taiwan doubles down on virus criticism as China denounces 'disgusting' behavior

You're conflating Chinese visitors and immigrants in Italy with the actions of the CCP?

I guess the answer was yes.

You're a naive fool.

Don't like that you got called out?

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#49  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@ronvalencia said:
@Vaasman said:
@ronvalencia said:

I'm 1/4 East Asian and I dislike CCP.

https://theprint.in/world/rename-who-as-chinese-health-organization-japan-slams-un-body-for-giving-into-chinas-spin/393961/

Rename WHO as Chinese Health Organization: Japan slams UN body for ‘giving into China’s spin’

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-china/taiwan-doubles-down-on-virus-criticism-as-china-denounces-disgusting-behavior-idUSKBN21C16U

Taiwan doubles down on virus criticism as China denounces 'disgusting' behavior

You're conflating Chinese visitors and immigrants in Italy with the actions of the CCP?

I guess the answer was yes.

You're a naive fool.

Don't like that you got called out?

Your problem. I agree with the views expressed by Taiwanese and Japanese.

Race neutrality test failures from Democrats

https://youtu.be/uqxzPnXhSo0?t=46

Democrats are still racist since they couldn't get race neutrality idea where skin color shouldn't be a factor, hence hypocrites

----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glKa_EI24RU

Democrats's Tlaib is racist.

Nationalist Socialism: State defined racial group in common control over the means of production

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#50 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15636 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@Vaasman said:

Don't like that you got called out?

Your problem.

Race neutrality test failures from Democrats

https://youtu.be/uqxzPnXhSo0?t=46

Democrats are still racist since they couldn't get race neutrality idea where skin color shouldn't be a factor, hence hypocrites

----

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glKa_EI24RU

Democrats's Tlaib is racist.

Nationalist Socialism: State defined racial group in common control over the means of production

What does any of that have to do with you being racist?