Ukraine forces Trans Woman to stay and fight Russia.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/22/i-will-not-be-held-prisoner-the-trans-women-turned-back-at-ukraines-borders

“Ukrainian border guards undress you and touch you everywhere,” Judis says. “You can see on their faces they’re wondering ‘what are you?’ like you’re some kind of animal or something.”

Judis is a transgender woman whose birth certificate defines her as female.

Legally, there is no reason why she should not be allowed to pass with the thousands of women who are crossing Ukrainian borders to safety every day.

Yet, on 12 March at about 4am, after a long and humiliating search, border guards determined she was a man and prevented her passage into Poland.

When Ukraine imposed martial law on 24 February, all men aged between 18 and 60 were banned from leaving the country. Since then, it is estimated that hundreds of Ukrainian trans people have attempted to cross the border. The Guardian has been told by activists and aid workers that, despite their legal status as women, dozens have been mistreated and pushed back at the borders, with many fearing for their lives in the event that Russia’s transphobic regime takes over.

Ukraine is making the men stay and fight if your between 18 and 60. Transwoman don't get a pass.

Sounds like if they check you and it swings you fight.

Interesting topic, if they did let trans woman leave and not fight I have a feeling a lot of dudes might start identifying differently, trans or not.

This article from the guardian is funny, they are saying they are trying to escape Russian transphobia... but it sounds like Ukraine is being transphobic... *shrug*

If it swings you fight..

Has Kotaku started supporting Russia yet?

@uninspiredcup: they better!

I think the situation speaks vey clearly about what happens to gender equality when the shit hits the fan.

If the ship sinks, war start, there is a fire.lf someone pulles a gun.

Then its women and children first. The men stay to protect others.

And its good that it's that way.

But it should also be a part or the gender equality conversation.

When the crucial time comes and it becomes dangerous, we are not equal. You leave to Safety and i stay to protect you.

That is part of our roles. Why is that not a part of the gender equality conversation?

Regarding the trans woman, i will be respectful and call her a she. She has the strength, speed and physical resistance of man. How you like to dress doesn't change that. She has to fight.

Two things. First, there's no such thing as "transwoman" so if they say men have to stay and fight, that's what they're looking for. The other problem is the coward types who will dress up as a woman, and be "trans" for about 10 minutes in hopes to get out of what their government has decided is their duty. We have a draft that says pretty much the same thing. So, this seems to be a non issue. Ukraine is drafting men, some are trying to shirk those duties, so they're keeping an eye out for them.

There should be some kind of medical/psychological evaluation in cases like this. No doubt some will take advantage, but not in all cases.

--

As for women and children not being forced to fight, makes sense from an utilitarian perspective. Both guarantee the continuation of the lineage, while men are disposable.

Ukraine is invaded and at war with Russia. A lot of fucked up stuff is going to happen.

I'd say this is the least of it. Moving on.

Seriously not trying to be unsympathetic but the fact is they are conscripting any male under the age of _ to fight the war, literally stopping them at the border as they try to flee Ukraine and turning them around and forcing them to fight. I think that is arguably the greater crime here, not that they made a trans woman conscript.

Obviously I personally feel you should defend your country but at the same time I think the right to choose to live, the right to choose not to fight, the right to move somewhere, and so on is more important.

Yeah that sounds like a good compromise, not really sure what the "right" way to go about this is. Or if they have time to really do a psychological study. Seems sort of like they need everyone rushed to the front lines.

She wanted to be a man, right? Well, there you go

Uh oh. Ukraine just stepped over their red line.

The way I see it, if they leave, they don't come back. If Ukraine wins the war, future generations will be sired by those who had the balls to stay and fight.

We will see. I don't think it's my place to judge people in that kind of situation. Easy to talk big when it's not you but when it comes down to it I don't think you can ask or demand another person to kill and/or die for a government, piece of land, or an ideal they might not share. That should be up to the individual, without fear of criticism for either choice.

Lots of people have been sold a romanticized idea of war only to realize later that they're just fodder for governments. Conversely some of the great causes of the world, namely the triumph over fascism, have only been accomplished by conflict.

Ironically, speaking of being "sired", whole generations of tall people have been wiped out by war. It's why Europeans for a long time tended to be shorter than Americans; they sent all their tall soldiers to the front to intimidate the enemy during WWI and WWII, and all that was left was short people. Also I don't think bravery is passed on via procreation.

We're not talking about joining the military to go dick around in the middle east because some people think it's cool to be a soldier, we're talking about defending your own country, your own home, your own family, your own community from complete and total destruction. There's nothing romanticized about survival, and for every coward who is in good health, and the proper age group that leaves, that means an even bigger advantage to the aggressors, and more of your own side dead.

Should the US be invaded, it's already been shown most people who identify as leftists would flee, which shows what kind of people they really are, the kind who don't actually give a **** about the country or those around them, and won't hesitate to turn their backs on their communities to save their own hides. And should "men" in that age group and good health flee, I don't want to see them back after the hard work is finished. They don't deserve citizenship, or courtesy from those who stayed. They deserve the punishment of deserters.

Completely agreed upon. Well said.

Where as I already did my time in the military and left that life behind years ago I would step back into a leadership role to rally our people and keep our country safe from foreign invasion without thinking twice. Most of these all bark no bite leftists would be looking for a one way train out of town or be cowering at the people's feet that were fighting back looking for protection or sympathy. Unfortunately it's reasons like those that the draft is a necessary evil if not enough volunteer. There is a difference between doing your governments bidding and protecting the future of your country, family, and livelihoods... it's the ones that don't see the difference that should do us all a favor and just not come back if and when the time ever arises.

Well, hopefully we never have to find out.

And as I said, it's easy to second guess and talk big (exceptions of course for those that have actually served) but I don't think it serves anyone to say a certain side is more or less cowardly than the other.

Plenty of democratic and liberal veterans out there in addition to Republican and conservative which, if extrapolated to the general population, would indicate we wouldn't suffer a shortage of people willing to defend their home.

You might even make the argument it would unify us, get us over our petty differences. Wouldn't that be nice. "Oh you voted for Trump/Biden? Whatever, hey remember that time we defeated the Mexi-Canadian Unified Coalition when they invaded the US? Yeah, love you too, bud"

We probably won't find out, because unlike Ukrainian citizens prior to an invasion, we have too many Americans who would fight back, are well armed, and can use their rifles probably better than Russian soldiers can use theirs. You can see how much Russia struggles because rifles were handed to a bunch of civilians who had never touched one before, so you could only imagine how that would turn out here, where they have.

And it would certainly unify those who remained, as they would all view those who chose to flee with nothing but contempt.

But do not forget Ukraine is where it is at now because of political division. People outside of Ukraine have been able to use that against them to instigate and back a coup in 2014 to overthrow the elected government, then replace it with one more cooperative with NATO expansion. This pissed off even more people to the point the eastern provinces seceded. This lead to the installed Ukrainian government declaring them terrorists, and attacked. Russia then exploited this to their advantage, playing on that division as an excuse to invade for what is most likely ulterior, self interested motives. The division within Ukraine was exploited on multiple sides to destroy it. The US isn't in that much better status right now.

Russia invading has not united Ukrainians that weren't already on one side or another.

@eoten: You have the most stupid takes, jebus.

Well, feel free to whine some more about it. It certainly beats your "Putin must have gone crazy and turned into Hitler!" take, that's for sure. Not that people who still watch MSM and think WaPo is a legitimate news organization can fathom anything being more complex than black and white.

@eoten: I honestly can't say if you just keep posting Russian propaganda because you're a farm troll or have some form of metal disability that makes you a pathological contrarian.

Putin had his reasons and guess what, so did Hitler. So what's your point? But only a low IQ idiot will deny Putin make a huge mistake. Unless you think losing thousands of soldiers and billions in material, while the economy collapses is all part of his genius plan.

The majority of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia nor want a pro Russian puppet government. That's what went on in 2014.

Of course the situation is complex. Being such a young country neighboring an oppressive and predatory superpower, to which they already lost millions of lives through history, there's nothing simple about it. No one said it was simple, even if in your retarded mind you like to create that imaginary scenario where you, a compulsive liar with a flat earther mentality, are the only one right because you don't watch X channel. You're so edgy!

Bullshit. There are many non Republicans in military service.

Meanwhile, in non-hypotheticals, Republicans just betrayed their country last election.

That's true. Every branch of government.

And you're basing this off of?....

I'd love to see some proof for this claim...

@tocool340: He's got nothing and he knows it. His statement is a projected hypothetical to support his claim that Democrats don't care about the country while Republicans actively advocate for and attempt to overthrow the country.

It's projection. They don't give a shit about their country, and they try to deflect that elsewhere.

Just imagine if the husband of a sitting 'liberal' judge on the Supreme Court was caught texting to overthrow a duly elected government. They'd have impeachment proceeding written up at this point.

What would happen if that judge then voted to seal information regarding that incident away?

@HoolaHoopMan: You might want to reread those text, then reread them again and again.

You might want to try that.

I have. Thanks for the advice though.

I'd say we'd irreversibly damage the SC (or at least that specific person's credibility). In Thomas' case he was a lone dissent so the court is largely spared. Part of the process that keeps our system intact is trust. If the highest court in the land loses trust in other local or state governments, I'm not sure how they could effectively enact laws and decisions.

Rather off-topic, aren't we?

No shit. Play pretend time is over. Got a country to defend, gentlemen.

EDIT: We would do the same if we were in Ukraine's position. Any country would.

Equality is bittersweet for some people. I’m shocked I haven’t seen feminists protesting equality for all the men that were forced to stay and fight, or offer to fight to protect themselves…

@ratchetclank92: because equality is never the goal. Otherwise programs to benefit women in the work place (expanding the proportion of female manager or female employees at tech companies) would take in consideration the wealth level of the applicants. But they never do.

The overwhelming bald faced transphobia out in the open here really says everything I need to know about this message board. Hate is eating you guys alive from the inside out.