Trump’s Immigration Plans Include Doubling DACA, Path to Citizenship, $25 Billion Wall

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-25/trump-would-double-daca-to-1-8-million-give-path-to-citizenship

just waiting to see how long Trumpists will say this is what they always wanted in the first place

I don't have a problem with amnesty for the Dreamers as long as future illegal immigration is slowed down (no way to stop it completely). Not all Trump supporters are against giving them a chance.

If you think that I'm lying and that I am just saying that now to save face, you can look at my older posts where I wasn't against the DREAM Act getting passed when President Obama was in charge.

Trying to slow future illegal immigration isn't an issue that anybody actually opposes.

The problem is trying to stop it with the stupid wall project that is so idiotic you have to either be willfully ignorant or have a learning disability to actually support it.

My GF's family is strictly on the pro-Trump team [diary farmer family], but even they think that building the wall is a stupid idea.

Why do Republicans want a $25 billion wall. I thought they were fiscally conservative, not big spenders on terrible, worthless things.

And what exactly does this do to slow down illegal immigration? All of the "reforms" are cutting pathways to legal citizenship, meaning fewer legal immigrants. You conservatives always hide behind this "oh, we're not anti-immigrant, we're pro-law" bullshit, but when the rubber hits the road you just jump behind a plan that aims to cut legal immigration for no other reason than the assumption that fewer immigrants is better for America. Don't even try explaining yourself anymore. We're on to your doublespeak, we see through your lies. You blew up the common ground during the Obama administration, this right here is what the political world you created looks like. Congratulations.

why do they need $25B when mexico is going to pay for it?

that took less time then I thought but there it is folks!

because Trump is in the construction business. that is the only reason this is a thing at all

@tryit:

Why don't they just keep DACA reinstated instead? Make it into law or something? It was already generating revenue, anyway. What's the harm? At least it's more realistic.

I'd......support....that?

Look, the wall is stupid, but doubling the amount of people who would be protected by DACA is a positive thing as is giving 1.8 million people a path to citizenship, and that's basically what Obama wanted to do (obviously the details of what that path looks like is important as we don't want it to be a near impossible path, but still). $25 billion could be better spent, and it sends a horrible message to both Mexico and other countries, but that's less than 1% of the annual budget so it's hard to get too upset about it when you know that context. Also, again, the wall would be an ineffective thing which makes it even more stupid, but is all the more reason to not get in a twist over.

Legalize Marijane and tax it. Use the taxes from it to build the wall. That's what should be done.

it shows you that trump is desperate for this wall victory because it's basically the number one thing he's been touting for months.

forget that it's a stupid idea and whatever. he just needs the victory and is willing to give these people amnesty in order to get it.

Yeah, part of me says to not give Trump a victory at all costs, but that's the really partisan part of my brain. If he is suddenly making proposals that are 90% good and 10% stupid should I really oppose him in that case? Normally, this wouldn't be such a dilemma, but he's been empowering bigotry and hatred as well as doing what he can to limit civil rights, and I really don't want that to continue so opposing his agenda might put a stop to that in four years and allowing him to have his victories might help him to get another four years.

That's the main dilemma, giving Trump victories increases his chances of getting re-elected. Being seen as a failure just might be the only thing that will make his core supporters give up on him, and denying him victories may be the only way to get him out of office to stop screwing up generations worth of work. Is getting what we want on immigration really worth the ripping up the social fabric and losing the social safety net? Even as I'm typing this, which helps organize it in my brain, I realize the answer is probably no, but how is that fair to the people who will get deported who have lived here all of their lives?

@loganx77: I was thinking the same thing. Roughly 24 million pounds of marijuana make it into the US from Mexico. About 2 million is actually seized, so 26 million pounds. Let growers with permits grow it in the US with a tax like tabacco.

Also, I think everyone is picturing The Great Wall of China when referring to the wall. There's already a wall up in most places. It just needs funds to repair and make certain areas harder to pass through. The terrain wouldn't allow a normal wall either. "Border security" would be a better word to use. I think "wall" has some people thinking an actual 20 foot high wall covering the entire border lol.

trump has said on numerous occasions, it is a physical wall, not a metaphorical one.

Trump is trolling again. This might get support from both sides due to the increase funding for immigration, and then he'll be like "Look at the hypocrites" when a future issue arises. And, of course, his sycophants will go "HAHA Trump right, look at all the tricked liberals" while not understanding how you can be moderate/liberal, for legal immigration, and against illegal immigration.

And honestly? 25 billion? Not that much given the future tax revenue and productivity a more liberal immigration reform could bring. And who knows, maybe we spend 25 billion now to see this amazing wall fail, and it is never an issue again; given the alternative.

But then you read the fine print:

The administration Thursday night proposed giving 1.8 million undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children a path to citizenship in exchange for drastically reducing family-based migration, a $25 billion trust fund for a border wall, stepped-up security at ports of entry, and stricter internal enforcement.

And now I feel like saying "nope, better to fight Trump than make a deal with the devil". Because while the initial offering seems good--the negative of the wall, with the two positives of DACA and path to citizenship--the real truth is that it's a really shit bribe from the self-proclaimed deal-maker of all time.

And be wary of entering into any deal with Trump when it involves contruction:

He added that the border wall would not cost $25 billion. During his campaign Trump promised to make Mexico pay for the wall, a proposal the U.S. neighbor has repeatedly rejected and that Trump has essentially abandoned.

“We’ll build a great wall and we’ll have a lot of money left over, and we’ll spend it on other things,” he said.

So it won't cost $25 billion, it will probably cost 60, and when the Mexicans don't pay for it (they are not in the least bit obligated to, I mean why would they?) guess what? Joe and Jane Taxpayer is going to pay for it.

Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who was among the candidates who opposed Trump for the Republican nomination in 2016, blasted the idea of giving young undocumented immigrants a way to become citizens, and suggested the president was betraying his voters.

I...agree? But not for the wrong reasons that Ted Cruz does. I agree with the overall point because A.) Trump is betraying his supporters, which is OK to me because screw them, but also B.) it shows just how two-faced he is, and how unworthy of the position his behavior has made him.

With that said, I hope Democrats hold their ground and don't make a deal with Trump, and I hope more Republicans, whether for the right reason or not, realize what a scumbag Trump is.

He means a literal wall, and no not militant with turrets and pathways on top of it like the Great Wall of China is, but passive and pointless like a 20 foot backyard fence.

And it is not in most places yet.

@comp_atkins: Yeah, parts will be physical... Just like now but improved. He's also said parts cannot be concrete, steel or whatever he was planning on using because of the terrain. Have you ever been to San Diego and seen the wall that divides it from Tijuana? It's simple but effective and it's already built. San Diego residents probably appreciate that wall.(Tijuana isn't exactly the best place). People acting like there's no wall already separating the countries or something.

@mrbojangles25: The wall south of San Diego is not passive... Good luck trying to cut through that steel without getting noticed. If anything, a 20 ft wall(which also goes deep enough to prevent tunnels) is better than what we have now. The parts that don't need a wall have terrain that would be tough to travel through. Not a bad idea to get the cartel out of the border cities either. Mexico should want that also. Somehow I think if this does go through and the wall is built, we are going to see more drugs coming from the Canadian border lol. But at least illegals crossing the border should slow down.

@joshrmeyer: fair enough.

And that might be a good thing. Those Canadians make higher-quality stuff!

@mrbojangles25: Ha! For real. I'd move to Canada if it wasn't so dang cold. Good stuff!

@mrbojangles25: It's Trump, who didn't think he meant a physical wall?

@theone86: I have already stated multiple times that the wall is a waste of money. If you don't believe me, then I honestly don't give a shit.

The problem with people like you is you try to blame racism for being opposed to illegal immigration. While that may be true with some conservatives, the vast majority aren't racist and pulling the bigot card out during arguments isn't the best way to get conservatives to your side. No matter how much you hate them, until Democrats get a supermajority, they still need them.

Good job assuming that I was against giving Dreamers amnesty until yesterday.

Part of me thinks you are just N64DD's liberal alternative.

Maybe we do need the both of you to keep the forum alive, since so many other posters either got banned or left on their own.

Walls are also bad for the environment and wildlife who need to cross those areas.

They don't think they're racist, but they are. They buy into racist narratives and fearmongering. Fox News runs headlines along the lines of "X thousands of immigrants coming into the country!" and they go berserk, why? Why does the number of immigrants matter? Why is Tom Cotton speaking as if numbers are the most important thing in this debate? It is dehumanizing and it draws on centuries of racist rhetoric and fears:

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/16897358/racism-donald-trump-immigration

I'm not trying to get you or any other conservative on my side, I don't give half a shit about that anymore. Like I said, you blew up the common ground, it's gone, no going back. Besides, Democrats have done nothing but caved on immigration in negotiations for decades and it never won any Republican support. Your side has not once shown itself to be an honest bargaining partner, and that is more true now than it ever has been. I am not persuading you, I am telling you. I am telling you that we're done talking about immigrants like pawns. We're done catering to your fears about numbers when we're talking about real people and real families. I am telling you that you are on the wrong side of history and if you don't get on the right side we're going to steamroll you politically. It is utterly laughable that you would even think anyone on the left has any illusions about negotiations or winning conservatives over after the way you treated President Obama, after the way this administration has spoken about immigrants, after disgusting bigots like Tom Cotton are allowed to pursue an agenda to punish families and people fleeing disasters just because of numbers. I am telling you that you had better wake up and pay attention to what liberals are saying or you are going to wake up one day and really hate the country you're living in. Live in your little ideological bubble, or treat your fellow Americans with some basic respect, your choice.

Hmm, 1.8million allowed in vs stricter immigration laws and no more lottery and a border wall.

I can live with that, especially since it means if the "dreamers" also have to abide by strict rules, so if they step over they can have their status revoked and sent back home.

Spend a little more $$$ and put the wall around NM,TX, and Arizona, and I'll have no problem with Trump's wall. Sure we will lose three key states, but that should make the Hispanics happy as they would reclaim the land they have hundreds of years ago.

Seems pretty narrow-minded of you to claim that anyone opposed to limits to immigration is racist and if they genuinely believe that they aren't, then it's because they are too stupid to realize that they are racist. Not all conservatives fall for fear-mongering. The number of immigrants does matter, since each person is a strain on resources. My personal opinion, instead of just opening up our borders so that they can get away from their country, is to improve their country so they don't have a reason to flee anymore.

Ever consider that some of the people against just opening up the borders may be perfectly fine with legal immigration? My ex-wife was an immigrant, and I paid thousands of dollars getting her plane tickets, a visa, tests, her Green Card, and eventually her citizenship. She was one of the biggest critics of illegal immigration I knew.

The last time we had a mass amnesty for illegal aliens was during the Reagan Administration. Google the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. The intent was amnesty in exchange for stronger enforcement of immigration law, to include prohibiting employers from hiring illegal aliens (the newly legalized immigrants were not only eligible to work, but could also eventually apply for citizenship).

30 years later, here we are again, only now Democrats are accusing Republicans of being racist for wanting to trade amnesty for stronger immigration enforcement. Maybe they are against the president's recent proposal because, if it is successful, it makes taking back Congress this November harder? Would they be against it if it was a President Hillary Clinton offering amnesty in exchange for hiring more border and ICE agents?

We can't save the whole world. We can save a few, but those other countries need to step it up. Acknowledging that is not racism, that is fact.

Show me where I have ever insulted President Obama as a person. I may have disagreed with some of his policies, but I never insulted him as a person. Anybody that did insult him as a person was totally uncalled for, and I include President Trump in that statement for his accusations that he was not a natural-born citizen or his requests for his college transcripts.

As for winning conservatives over, it is very possible. Just like not all liberals are the same, neither are all conservatives. Hillary Clinton, as a senator, wanted to get rid of violent video games. Does that mean you do too, since both you and her are liberals?

It's already too late for some people on both sides with that statement. You have Liberals praising Kim Jong Un for calling Trump a dotard (totally ignoring that he is a dictator that tortures and starves his people, and that he threatened to murder millions of Americans in nuclear strikes). Then you have NFL players that are actually being called racist because they refuse to kneel during the National Anthem.

That statement makes me laugh. You can't sit here and demand that conservatives respect liberal ideas, while calling conservatives every name in the book. While I am not saying you did it personally, there have been liberals that proudly fat and slut-shame (despite no proof she is promiscuous) Sarah Sanders because she is a Republican, but those same people call Tess Holliday who attended and breastfed her child at the Women's March brave for posing nude and Madonna who offered men that voted for Hillary Clinton oral sex (she may or may not have been serious) brave for claiming she thought about blowing up the White House.

I know in your dream scenario, the population of Liberals grows to the point that a Republican never gets elected again, but until that happens, we are going to have to work together if we want this country to be the best in the world.

Also, not all people that refuse to confess their undying hatred for Trump is a white Republican. I'm not white and I'm an independent that leans slightly right. There are several things Republicans do that I do not agree with, and if the Democrats were able to get a better candidate than Hillary Clinton in 2016, then I may have voted for them.

there needs to be liberal alternative to someone like Rush and N64DD not nearly enough liberal radicals in the world

I didn't say anyone calling for limits was a racist, nice strawman. I said that dredging up fears of massive waves of immigrants overrunning the country was racist, and it is. I said Republican politicians who point to the numbers of immigrants we receive as a problem without explaining what the problem is racist fearmongering, and it is. And can someone from your side please explain to me why we suddenly have an immigration problem to begin with when numbers have been dropping for years? Could it have something to do with the fact that the party elected on promises to "drain the swamp" is actually making it deeper than it's ever been and they need a scapegoat to detract from that? I mean, the Simpsons outlined your playbook in Much Apu about Nothing back in 96 and yet here we are twenty years later and it ain't changed a bit. You could at least try to get some new material, freshen things up a bit.

I don't care if every Republican voter isn't going around yelling slurs at every Latino they see (and plenty of them are, plenty more just say it behind their back). The fact of the matter is that they buy into the racist rhetoric, at best they brush it off as secondary. If you can't erase racism from your platform on immigration then to hell with it and anyone who supports it regardless of their reasoning (and BTW, there is such thing as rationalization, not every person who says they support it for pure reasons actually does). The fact of the matter is that every Republican who dares stand up for immigrants as people gets pummeled politically. Racism is a cancer that has infected the Republican party, and if you can't find the balls to stand up to it then I could care less about your intentions.

Who said anything about open borders? See, this is the thing I hate about conservatives, they think that if they give ground on anything then everything is just going to get completely out of hand and go to pot. Why should you have to pay so much money to get your wife into the country? What about people who were just as deserving of being here as her, but didn't have the financial resources? Is that what America is, some country club you have to pay dues to get into? We can spar over policy all we want, but I am NEVER going to accept that premise. I am also never going to call a human being a drain on resources. Let's never mind the fact that increased immigration actually makes economic sense and can help offset the disparity between boomers and their children in terms of numbers, they're people. They contribute when they can, they try to get help when they can just like any other person. I refuse to refer to them as a drain just because they weren't born here. You want to know why I call you a racist? Right there, because you're taking people who were born into circumstances out of their control and judging their character based off nothing but their nationality. It's not name-calling if I have reasons to back it up with.

And like I said, this legislation that serial racist Tom Cotton is pushing is aimed at cutting legal immigration. If you're such a big fan of legal immigration then why do you continue to support a party that is hell-bent on reducing it? As for improving their countries, sure, just let me pull my magical fairy dust out of my ass and make every distressed country on earth suddenly operate perfectly. What do you think just about every country on earth is focused on doing right now? That's what diplomacy, global economics, politics, the UN, all these things deal with on a daily basis. And while those gears turn slowly as ever people are stuck in poverty, fleeing war, coping with disease, and trying to make a better lives for themselves despite all of it. You know what helps those countries improve? When some of their population migrates to richer countries so that they can make more money, maybe get an education, and send money home to their families so that they can make more money, start building up wealth or at least some security for their kids, and slowly start to improve their surroundings. If we just tell these people that they should stay where they are and never come to our country until theirs is perfect then they're never going to break out of these cycles. You don't want people from poorer countries coming to your country? Then live in a poor country. As long as the US enjoys such a high standard of living people are always going to try to get their share. You can sit at the top if you want, but don't be surprised when other people want what you have. "Not prizing wealth will save the people from becoming contentious."

The problem is we're sick of trading more border enforcement for a heap of immigrants here or there. We're sick of people who have grown up in this country being used for bargaining chips. We're sick of Republicans threatening to send people back into war zones or unstable economies unless we ramp up what is already one of the best-funded border patrol forces in the world. What happens is we get one small group of immigrants who can rest easy, and then ICE gets free reign to terrorize people for decades to come. We have to read every day about ICE deliberately lying to people about their rights under US law, detaining US citizens in violation of court orders, ignoring protocol in obtaining warrants, splitting up families, we have to read about scumbags like Joe Arpaio who deliberately target ethnic minorities and attempt to physically and emotionally humiliate them, and then you Republicans come to us saying "Oh, you see what these assholes over here are doing, we want more money to keep doing it but on a larger scale and we're going to hold the immigration status of this group or that group hostage until we get it." It follows a very disturbing trend of Republicans making disproportionate demands, Democrats accepting those demands in exchange for a few minor concessions, and then Republicans going around acting as if Democrats are asking the world and putting the entire nation at risk. In almost every issue you've been getting almost everything you wanted for decades, and you do nothing but cry and moan about how you haven't gotten enough. If you want to know why most Democrats aren't interested in negotiating anymore, it's because of this dynamic.

The other big reason is because of how Republicans have treated President Obama. Like I said before, I don't care what you do personally, you support a party that systematically tried to humiliate and undermine our first black president for no apparent reason. Mitch McConnell came out day one and said his number one priority was to unseat President Obama and Republicans got behind him one hundred percent. Like I keep saying, you blew up the common ground. You spit in all our faces, and then you did it again by electing an unqualified, demagoguing, rapist dirtbag to be president, and now you want us to come crawling back begging you "please, please, let this small handful of immigrants stay, we'll put harsh quotas on legal immigration, we'll fund your lawless deportation agency, just please let us negotiate with you again, oh benevolent ones." Hell. No. You had your chance to stand up to people who undermined our president out of spite, you didn't. I don't care if you agreed with those people or were just complicit, you were cowardly and you sold out on the idea of bipartisanship. Welcome to the new normal, it's your baby.

Whataboutism, the penultimate act of irresponsibility coming from the party that can't stop telling everyone else to take personal responsibility. I'll repeat my demand, live in your little ideological bubble, or start treating your fellow Americans with some basic respect, your choice. For someone who actually does take personal responsibility, meeting that demand isn't contingent on the actions of others.

@theone86: Saw a lot of anger and accusations in that reply of yours. Especially with your claims that they all must be racists.

Here you are calling conservatives hateful, yet you’re the one saying that you will never compromise. Love them or hate them, you’re going to have to compromise until you can get both a supermajority and a Democrat back in the White House.

All I can tell you is everything isn’t so black and white in politics. Keep dismissing the other side because you believe that you are morally superior if you wish.

He's probably correct that bipartisanship is dead. The only way forward is probably for a party to flat out win majorities large enough to overcome filibusters (or destroy the filibuster outright).

I wonder how long the Republican party can retain power, or even relevance, under that scenario when they regularly lose the popular vote and rely on a dying demographic.

I think we’re just in a shitty political era right now. If we were able to come back together as a country after the Civil War, then we will get past the crap that is going on right now.

@ad1x2: I mean, during the civil war one party flat out won. After the great depression a party flat out won again. One could argue that after Reagan a party flat out won yet again.

That's the kind of win I'm referring to. One party politically pummels the other into fringe relevancy.

Yeah, no shit, I'm trying to convey anger. You Republicans think you have a monopoly on anger, you think that whenever you get pissed off the entire world should stop and make everything all better for you poor babies. I'm telling you that there are a lot of people who are extremely angry and extremely unhappy with Republicans and how you've been voting and acting for the past few decades. I'm telling you that this trend of Democrats bending over backwards to accommodate your demands and still getting called unamerican, communist, entitled, and whatever other dirty accusation you can come up with is over. You're either going to start taking us seriously as bargaining partners or we're going to treat you the way you treat us, as untrustworthy, unprincipled, bad faith actors.

I never said all Republicans are racist, thanks for the strawman again. And thank you for proving my point, that you're not taking my side seriously. You can either actually listen to what I'm saying and understand why some of the rhetoric your side uses is racist, or you can just sit there in your sad little ideological bubble and tell yourself that everyone who disagrees with you is just name-calling. Your choice.

And when have conservatives compromised? Bill Clinton ran a campaign based on compromising, came across to the Republican's side on many issues, and yet Newt Gingrich and the Republicans tried to systematically destroy him. President Obama ran a campaign on compromise and incorporated Republican ideas into his legislation, and Republicans tried to systematically destroy him. The idea that a Republican would even utter the word compromise is laughable. You want compromise? Start by learning how to compromise yourself.

Keep telling yourself that we'll never get a Democratic supermajority and president. When we do I'm going to respond to all your complaints about the state of our country the same way Trump voters responded to mine "Oh, I love conservative tears, I drink a whole mug in the morning."

I'm dismissing the other side? You're the one who doesn't respond to the substance of my argument, who keeps throwing out detractions and fallacies. And you know what, if treating other humans beings like human beings is what differentiates my side from your side then yeah, my side is morally superior. If understanding the reasons why people do what they do instead of just labeling them as illegals, if not trotting out racist imagery of being overrun and not racistly stereotyping people as dangerous criminals, if not calling people from white countries "good" immigrants and people from non-white countries "bad immigrants, if that's the difference between my side and yours then mine is morally superior. My question is, Republicans are always going around calling themselves the ones on the side of morality, since they say they're all for family values and giving people a chance, then why are they acting so immorally? Why are they trying to break up families, why are they vilifying legal immigrants who just want a chance to succeed, why are they trying to punish immigrants based on nothing more than the country they're coming from? Why don't you, instead of just getting angry at me for calling out this behavior, live up to all your haughty rhetoric, take some personal responsibility, and seriously ask yourself whether you're doing the moral thing by supporting this behavior.

I do not support wasting money on a wall that is going to do nothing instead of spending money on healthcare, infrastructure, and education. It's like conservatives are happy with the slow steps to third world country.

The military budget proves that's a fucking lie.

Or... We don't build the Wall and put it towards useful things: education, social security, healthcare, infrastructure, the arts, science, technology, etc. Just the top of my head.

@luxuryheart: Spending over 100 billion a year on illegals and it wouldnt be useful?

Probably why he's raising the price of gas and saying it's for 'infrastructure.' He has to pay for the Wall because that's the one thing he promised, so he's going above and beyond for it. He was literally on the phone begging for Mexico's president to stop talking about how he wasn't going to pay for the wall. It made him sound like a huge pussy. Though his supporters swear he's Alpha. lol.

The whole Wall thing is a Trump vanity project. Though it's at our expense thanks to his stupid voters. The money could go into better things like improving Southern coastal state's infrastructure for the next hurricane, education, general infrastructure, business loans, healthcare, social security, etc. Instead $25 billion dollars is going to a Wall that won't even work.

i see that as more of a "oh shit, we really fucked the deficit with this whole tax thing, we better do something quick to make up the revenue we're losing"

Illegals pay taxes and barely get any benefits. Next!

Doesn't sound all that bad.

@luxuryheart: they would only pay sales tax which hardly comes close to what they take. You are delusional.

why any money to build a wall? just call up mexico and use your top notch art of the deal skills to get mexico to cut you a check

I got a smart idea.

Why not just line up all those immigrants and form a human wall?

You mean most illegals send a lot of money back to support their "families" each year

But nice try.

What do they take? A Conservative site said they cost about $84 billion dollars. Take in mind this is at the higher end. The American Immigration council says they pay more than they receive: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/giving_the_facts_a_fighting_chance_addressing_common_questions_on_immigration.pdf Also take in mind that it's mostly state and local for school and public services (firemen, police, school, etc.). Take in mind they also include their children (who are here legally) because they reason, "the kids wouldn't be here if the parents weren't here."

They aren't qualified for Medicare, SSI, food stamps, housing, etc. Their children can get food with school breakfast and lunch, and enough food stamps to feed THE KIDS BORN IN AMERICA. EMERGENCY medical assistance, not medicaid.