Trump Impeachment 2021

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Drunk_PI

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#51 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Again, it's all emotionally driven and used, IMO wrongly, to stoke the fire. A mob? Yes. A riot? No argument there.

They were attempting to kidnap and/or kill politicians opposed to Trump. It was politically driven and were attempting to subvert the rule of law and governance. Facts are facts.

Cry more. It's all you Trumpettes can do.

Rioters armed with flags were going to kidnap and kill politicians? Kid, you sound unstable.

Rioters also armed with zip ties intent on kidnapping and potentially killing politicians. Additionally, some chanting death threats to Mike Pence.

Loading Video...

Zip Ties: Link to Forbes Article

Also armed with flags? Pipe bombs and other weapons were found at the RNC and DNC addresses. LINK

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Planeforger

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#52 Planeforger
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@Solaryellow: Rioters armed with batons, tazers, guns, zip ties, an assortment of blunt objects, and reportedly a bunch of molotov cocktails intended to kidnap and kill politicians - yes.

That's not conjecture. Some of them clearly posted their intentions on social media.

Speaking of flags, did you see the footage of a rioter beating the shit out of a police officer with a flag? What do you think the violent mob was going to do if they cornered Pelosi, or any of the others?

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mattbbpl

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#53 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19617 Posts

@Solaryellow: Yeah, it's all emotionally driven*

*Except for their definition.

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Silentchief

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#54 Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 557 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

He needs to be impeached and removed. It sends a clearly needed message that democracy is important. And they need to go after those in congress that allowed this.

Lol go after the members in Congress that questioned the election results? Jesus the left has gone full gestapo.

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Solaryellow

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#55 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Rioters armed with flags were going to kidnap and kill politicians? Kid, you sound unstable.

Rioters also armed with zip ties intent on kidnapping and potentially killing politicians. Additionally, some chanting death threats to Mike Pence.

Zip Ties: Link to Forbes Article

Also armed with flags? Pipe bombs and other weapons were found at the RNC and DNC addresses. LINK

Then I expect those arrested, who breached the capitol (with pipe bombs), will face additional charges for bringing explosives into the chambers? BTW, how many of those arrested for storming the building and chambers were arrested with such things? Looking at the list of charges of those arrested does not factually align with so many of the claims being made. Were the people with "zip ties" charged with having a weapon on federal property? You seem to be giving these people a great deal of credit.

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LJS9502_basic

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#56 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@silentchief said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

He needs to be impeached and removed. It sends a clearly needed message that democracy is important. And they need to go after those in congress that allowed this.

Lol go after the members in Congress that questioned the election results? Jesus the left has gone full gestapo.

That was an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election, the bedrock of our democracy. The right doesn't have people interested in democracy anymore if you an example.

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Drunk_PI

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#58  Edited By Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Rioters armed with flags were going to kidnap and kill politicians? Kid, you sound unstable.

Rioters also armed with zip ties intent on kidnapping and potentially killing politicians. Additionally, some chanting death threats to Mike Pence.

Zip Ties: Link to Forbes Article

Also armed with flags? Pipe bombs and other weapons were found at the RNC and DNC addresses. LINK

Then I expect those arrested, who breached the capitol (with pipe bombs), will face additional charges for bringing explosives into the chambers? BTW, how many of those arrested for storming the building and chambers were arrested with such things? Looking at the list of charges of those arrested does not factually align with so many of the claims being made. Were the people with "zip ties" charged with having a weapon on federal property? You seem to be giving these people a great deal of credit.

The denial is strong in this one and, as usual, continue to downplay the violence that right wingers commit.

The fact that they were going to illegally detain someone for not supporting their viewpoint is an indication of what they may have wanted, especially with their death threats. Hence the zip ties, as well as the pipebombs, nooses and gallows found on capitol grounds.

I've literally posted proof with links and pics and so has everyone else.

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Solaryellow

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#59  Edited By Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Then I expect those arrested, who breached the capitol (with pipe bombs), will face additional charges for bringing explosives into the chambers? BTW, how many of those arrested for storming the building and chambers were arrested with such things? Looking at the list of charges of those arrested does not factually align with so many of the claims being made. Were the people with "zip ties" charged with having a weapon on federal property? You seem to be giving these people a great deal of credit.

The denial is strong in this one and, as usual, continue to downplay the violence that right wingers such as yourself commit.

The fact that they were going to illegally detain someone for not supporting their viewpoint is an indication of what they may have wanted, especially with their death threats. Hence the zip ties, as well as the pipebombs, nooses and gallows found on capitol grounds.

I've literally posted proof with links and pics and so has everyone else.

You didn't just say I commit violence, did you?

Maybe I am just being unclear. Why don't the charges of those arrested (and there were a lot) fall in line with your claims and opinions? CNN, of all places, mentioned one man with some sort of napalm bombs, an "assault" weapon and a handgun in his truck some two blocks away from the riot. Another man had handguns and hundreds of rounds of ammo but it didn't specifically where except for being in a trailer parked outside of his hotel when he was arrested. The two men with "zip ties" were not charged with weapons offenses according to the dept of justice. I am merely asking why those involved in an "armed insurrection" in the capitol aren't being charged as such. Not saying there won't be any but if that was an armed insurrection that was the sorriest in recent times.

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mrbojangles25

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#60  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 49307 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@mrbojangles25: For me, the biggest reason is precedent. We keep letting corruption slide in various ways, and it keeps getting worse.

I want to begin the process of shutting that door.

Indeed. Need to hold the people with power accountable.

@Solaryellow said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Again, it's all emotionally driven and used, IMO wrongly, to stoke the fire. A mob? Yes. A riot? No argument there.

They were attempting to kidnap and/or kill politicians opposed to Trump. It was politically driven and were attempting to subvert the rule of law and governance. Facts are facts.

Cry more. It's all you Trumpettes can do.

Rioters armed with flags were going to kidnap and kill politicians? Kid, you sound unstable.

As unstable as the folks that showed up with pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails, and have been posting on forums about killing and kidnapping politicians? Which, by the way, resulted in at least five deaths in a matter of like three hours, including a police officer.

Need I remind you not more than a couple months ago a right-wing kidnapping plot was thwarted and 13 people charged?

As unstable as those folks?

The threat from the far right is real. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: bad guys. Time to stop playing the victim. Give me a break.

...Six people were charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap, and seven other people, associated with the militia group "Wolverine Watchmen," were charged by the state, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced."The individuals in (state) custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan," Nessel said at a press conference.

...

"Just last week, the President of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups," she said. "'Stand back and stand by,' he told them. 'Stand back and stand by.' Hate groups heard the President's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight."...

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LJS9502_basic

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#61 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@mrbojangles25: FBI reports threats against all 50 state capitals and DC, Biden, Harris, Pelosi.

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Solaryellow

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#62  Edited By Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

As unstable as the folks that showed up with pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails, and have been posting on forums about killing and kidnapping politicians? Which, by the way, resulted in at least five deaths in a matter of like three hours, including a police officer.

Need I remind you not more than a couple months ago a right-wing kidnapping plot was thwarted and 13 people charged?

As unstable as those folks?

The threat from the far right is real. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: bad guys. Time to stop playing the victim. Give me a break.

...Six people were charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap, and seven other people, associated with the militia group "Wolverine Watchmen," were charged by the state, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced."The individuals in (state) custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan," Nessel said at a press conference.

...

"Just last week, the President of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups," she said. "'Stand back and stand by,' he told them. 'Stand back and stand by.' Hate groups heard the President's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight."...

For the past number of years we watched cities burn (by the left), police stations occupied (by the left), federal court houses attempted to be burned (by the left) and taken over and having to shut down (temporarily), people killed during occupations (by the left), police killed (by the left) and yet the sky wasn't falling and the government wasn't under threat.......until now when the right is involved. Cut the b.s. with your faux outrage. Unfortunately it isn't a surprise how certain people and media outlets have changed their colors when it comes to what happened.

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LJS9502_basic

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#63 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

As unstable as the folks that showed up with pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails, and have been posting on forums about killing and kidnapping politicians? Which, by the way, resulted in at least five deaths in a matter of like three hours, including a police officer.

Need I remind you not more than a couple months ago a right-wing kidnapping plot was thwarted and 13 people charged?

As unstable as those folks?

The threat from the far right is real. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: bad guys. Time to stop playing the victim. Give me a break.

...Six people were charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap, and seven other people, associated with the militia group "Wolverine Watchmen," were charged by the state, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced."The individuals in (state) custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan," Nessel said at a press conference.

...

"Just last week, the President of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups," she said. "'Stand back and stand by,' he told them. 'Stand back and stand by.' Hate groups heard the President's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight."...

For the past number of years we watched cities burn, police stations occupied, federal court houses attempted to be burned and taken over and having to shut down (temporarily), people killed during occupations, police killed and yet the sky wasn't falling and the government wasn't under threat by the LEFT.......until now when the right is involved. Cut the b.s. with your faux outrage.

Woah in the interest of fairness those actions were found to be under both the right and left. Not one exclusively. Nonetheless, what does that have to do with the attempted violent overthrow of the government?

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mrbojangles25

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#64  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 49307 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

As unstable as the folks that showed up with pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails, and have been posting on forums about killing and kidnapping politicians? Which, by the way, resulted in at least five deaths in a matter of like three hours, including a police officer.

Need I remind you not more than a couple months ago a right-wing kidnapping plot was thwarted and 13 people charged?

As unstable as those folks?

The threat from the far right is real. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: bad guys. Time to stop playing the victim. Give me a break.

...Six people were charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap, and seven other people, associated with the militia group "Wolverine Watchmen," were charged by the state, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced."The individuals in (state) custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan," Nessel said at a press conference.

...

"Just last week, the President of the United States stood before the American people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two Michigan militia groups," she said. "'Stand back and stand by,' he told them. 'Stand back and stand by.' Hate groups heard the President's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. When our leaders speak, their words matter. They carry weight."...

For the past number of years we watched cities burn (by the left), police stations occupied (by the left), federal court houses attempted to be burned (by the left) and taken over and having to shut down (temporarily), people killed during occupations (by the left), police killed (by the left) and yet the sky wasn't falling and the government wasn't under threat.......until now when the right is involved. Cut the b.s. with your faux outrage. Unfortunately it isn't a surprise how certain people and media outlets have changed their colors when it comes to what happened.

Nice whataboutism. If you can't defend yourself, blame the opposition, amirite?!

I won't dispute what has gone on during the BLM and other protests, but let's mix in some context and facts about what's gone on in this country for a while now, but especially this past year:

One side is responsible for civil unrest resulting from documented and proven injustices....

...the other side is guilty of terrorism, kidnapping, treason, and sedition.

Guess which one is which.

*And before anyone accuses me of overreacting:

Sedition: Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organisation, that tends toward rebellion against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent toward, or rebellion against, established authority.

Like, for example, telling right wing hate group/s to "stand by" or telling your cult to fight for you to overturn a fair election.

Treason: the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of one's country or of assisting its enemies in war specifically

Such as storming a country's capitol.

Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

i.e. attempting to kidnap politicians, bringing bombs and incendiary devices to a protest, and forming "militia" groups with the intent of fighting against law enforcement and inflicting harm on civilians.

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

...

For the past number of years we watched cities burn, police stations occupied, federal court houses attempted to be burned and taken over and having to shut down (temporarily), people killed during occupations, police killed and yet the sky wasn't falling and the government wasn't under threat by the LEFT.......until now when the right is involved. Cut the b.s. with your faux outrage.

Woah in the interest of fairness those actions were found to be under both the right and left. Not one exclusively. Nonetheless, what does that have to do with the attempted violent overthrow of the government?

Can't think of any rational argument so they respond with "whataboutism".

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Solaryellow

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#65  Edited By Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

Nice whataboutism. If you can't defend yourself, blame the opposition, amirite?!

I won't dispute what has gone on during the BLM and other protests, but let's mix in some context and facts about what's gone on in this country for a while now, but especially this past year:

One side is responsible for civil unrest resulting from documented and proven injustices....

...the other side is guilty of terrorism, kidnapping, treason, and sedition.

Guess which one is which.

Of course of course. No one cared about much until the right got involved in something and then suddenly and like reading a script the sky was falling and the government was being overthrown which was both implausible and impossible. One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

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LJS9502_basic

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#66  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

Nice whataboutism. If you can't defend yourself, blame the opposition, amirite?!

I won't dispute what has gone on during the BLM and other protests, but let's mix in some context and facts about what's gone on in this country for a while now, but especially this past year:

One side is responsible for civil unrest resulting from documented and proven injustices....

...the other side is guilty of terrorism, kidnapping, treason, and sedition.

Guess which one is which.

Of course of course. No one cared about much until the right got involved in something and then suddenly and like reading a script the sky was falling and the government was being overthrown which was both implausible and impossible. One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

It was and it's neither implausible nor impossible. You need to get out of the us v them mindset. It will do you good.

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mrbojangles25

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#67  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 49307 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

Nice whataboutism. If you can't defend yourself, blame the opposition, amirite?!

I won't dispute what has gone on during the BLM and other protests, but let's mix in some context and facts about what's gone on in this country for a while now, but especially this past year:

One side is responsible for civil unrest resulting from documented and proven injustices....

...the other side is guilty of terrorism, kidnapping, treason, and sedition.

Guess which one is which.

Of course of course. No one cared about much until the right got involved in something and then suddenly and like reading a script the sky was falling and the government was being overthrown which was both implausible and impossible. One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

Seriously man. Are you a Trump supporter, or a GOP supporter? You can make the distinction. My best friend voted for Trump, and he is still my best friend. But he is also furious over what Trump supporters did this past week. Because he is an American first, GOP voter second, and a Trump voter a distant third.

You don't need to go down with the ship over some warped, misplaced sense of victimhood. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: the bad guys, with no redeemable qualities.

You can say "I still support the GOP, but Trump is terrible" and keep your dignity. Or do you genuinely support Trump and the right-wing cult?

The GOP needs good people and good politicians to support it when it finally gets it act together. As @LJS9502_basic said, get out of the us vs them mindset. Support America, not some wannabe despot and his cult like those hacks that tried to overthrow the government.

And yes, it's entirely plausible and possible.

...One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

Yes, exactly. Glad you finally understand.

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Solaryellow

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#68 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@Solaryellow said:

Of course of course. No one cared about much until the right got involved in something and then suddenly and like reading a script the sky was falling and the government was being overthrown which was both implausible and impossible. One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

Seriously man. Are you a Trump supporter, or a GOP supporter? You can make the distinction. My best friend voted for Trump, and he is still my best friend. But he is also furious over what Trump supporters did this past week. Because he is an American first, GOP voter second, and a Trump voter a distant third.

You don't need to go down with the ship over some warped, misplaced sense of victimhood. Sometimes the bad guys are exactly that: the bad guys, with no redeemable qualities.

You can say "I still support the GOP, but Trump is terrible" and keep your dignity. Or do you genuinely support Trump and the right-wing cult?

...One was fighting for justice and the other wasn't. Amirite?

Yes, exactly. Glad you finally understand.

I'm not your friend though so we can keep things impersonal. Not believing these people were going to or trying to overthrow the government does not mean one is supporting their actions and it would be hard to do considering numerous people have been charged and not for jaywalking. No, I don't have to hate trump even though such a narrative has been pushed for over four years in which I was supposed to hate him. That isn't hyperbole. The media and the democrats want me to hate him. Finding fault when he acts like an ass isn't good enough.

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mrbojangles25

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#69 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 49307 Posts

@Solaryellow: I don't think anyone is asking you to hate Trump simply because he is in the GOP or represents the right, just to be concerned when he does in fact spur his supporters into a coup attempt via seditionist communications, tells preposterous lies, and tries to subvert our democracy for personal gain.

Though, yes, some people succumb to "orange man bad syndrome" while being concerned, which further entrenches folks on the right into their victim mentality.

I agree though, it's not illegal for someone to be an asshole (for better or worse), people need to be less outraged when our president acts like a dick. It's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" when you're yelling something about Trump every ten minutes.

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LJS9502_basic

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#70 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

. Not believing these people were going to or trying to overthrow the government does not mean one is supporting their actions and it would be hard to do considering numerous people have been charged and not for jaywalking. No, I don't have to hate trump even though such a narrative has been pushed for over four years in which I was supposed to hate him. That isn't hyperbole. The media and the democrats want me to hate him. Finding fault when he acts like an ass isn't good enough.

Why exactly do you think they attacked while Congress was certifying the vote? Did you listen to any of the interviews?

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Planeforger

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#71 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 18594 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

You didn't just say I commit violence, did you?

Maybe I am just being unclear. Why don't the charges of those arrested (and there were a lot) fall in line with your claims and opinions? CNN, of all places, mentioned one man with some sort of napalm bombs, an "assault" weapon and a handgun in his truck some two blocks away from the riot. Another man had handguns and hundreds of rounds of ammo but it didn't specifically where except for being in a trailer parked outside of his hotel when he was arrested. The two men with "zip ties" were not charged with weapons offenses according to the dept of justice. I am merely asking why those involved in an "armed insurrection" in the capitol aren't being charged as such. Not saying there won't be any but if that was an armed insurrection that was the sorriest in recent times.

There are a few possibilities

1. Perhaps it wasn't as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.

2. Perhaps law enforcement agencies are waiting for Trump to leave office before laying on any serious charges. If they announce those charges today, Trump can just pardon them tomorrow.

3. Perhaps law enforcement agencies are looking for bigger fish to fry. I imagine the mob was mostly comprised of mindless sheep, with some agitators and psychopaths amongst them. These aren't important enough to immediately throw the book at them.

If I was a federal prosecutor, I'd be much more interested in who organised the mob and what their intentions were. So I'd be looking into:

  • Who instigated the rally, what they knew, and what their intentions were (including what messages were circulating around the rally, and how much violence was promoted or premeditated)
  • Who paid to transport all those people from across the country, what they knew, and what their intentions were
  • How the mob so easily got into the Capitol, including which police officers let them through and who delayed in calling the national guard
  • Whether anyone inside the Capitol was assisting the mob, such as the Republican congresswoman who tweeted "This is 1776" that morning and was live-tweeting Nancy Pelosi's location during the assault (which may or may not be a coincidence, but needs to be investigated)

...and so on. Investigators can start by rounding up the protestors and searching their computers/social media posts, but you can guarantee there were more important people assisting them.

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comp_atkins

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#72 comp_atkins
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@Solaryellow said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

Again, it's all emotionally driven and used, IMO wrongly, to stoke the fire. A mob? Yes. A riot? No argument there.

They were attempting to kidnap and/or kill politicians opposed to Trump. It was politically driven and were attempting to subvert the rule of law and governance. Facts are facts.

Cry more. It's all you Trumpettes can do.

Rioters armed with flags were going to kidnap and kill politicians? Kid, you sound unstable.

no one accused them of being the sharpest tools in the shed...

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#73 HoolaHoopMan
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@comp_atkins said:

no one accused them of being the sharpest tools in the shed...

Let's not kid ourselves, a mob doesn't have to be smart to cause damage or work. Mob mentality is a euphemism for a reason. If they had entered the building earlier and happened to corner actual congressman do you really believe that nothing would have come of it? Hell, months earlier we had a kidnapping plot by 6 of these same assholes in Michigan.

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#74 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

@Solaryellow: I don't think anyone is asking you to hate Trump simply because he is in the GOP or represents the right, just to be concerned when he does in fact spur his supporters into a coup attempt via seditionist communications, tells preposterous lies, and tries to subvert our democracy for personal gain.

Though, yes, some people succumb to "orange man bad syndrome" while being concerned, which further entrenches folks on the right into their victim mentality.

I agree though, it's not illegal for someone to be an asshole (for better or worse), people need to be less outraged when our president acts like a dick. It's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" when you're yelling something about Trump every ten minutes.

For over four years anyone who contemplated voting for him, anyone who did vote for him, etc..., were told they were racist, sexist, bigoted, etc..., the lowest of the low. Condemning his actions (when unbecoming) was not good enough and has never been good enough. Condemning the people who rioted at the capitol is also not enough because one MUST believe the ideas of a government overthrow. The boy who cried wolf, chicken little, etc.., are all apropos to the last four and one quarter years or so and we even go back longer if we wanted. No one is ever wrong all of the time contrary to what the opposition would have one believe. IMO we've lost our way when it comes to being objective.

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#75 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

@Solaryellow: I don't think anyone is asking you to hate Trump simply because he is in the GOP or represents the right, just to be concerned when he does in fact spur his supporters into a coup attempt via seditionist communications, tells preposterous lies, and tries to subvert our democracy for personal gain.

Though, yes, some people succumb to "orange man bad syndrome" while being concerned, which further entrenches folks on the right into their victim mentality.

I agree though, it's not illegal for someone to be an asshole (for better or worse), people need to be less outraged when our president acts like a dick. It's a bit of "boy who cried wolf" when you're yelling something about Trump every ten minutes.

For over four years anyone who contemplated voting for him, anyone who did vote for him, etc..., were told they were racist, sexist, bigoted, etc..., the lowest of the low. Condemning his actions (when unbecoming) was not good enough and has never been good enough. Condemning the people who rioted at the capitol is also not enough because one MUST believe the ideas of a government overthrow. The boy who cried wolf, chicken little, etc.., are all apropos to the last four and one quarter years or so and we even go back longer if we wanted. No one is ever wrong all of the time contrary to what the opposition would have one believe. IMO we've lost our way when it comes to being objective.

Oh stop with the deflection. trump has no character. He never has. I don't tend to agree with the GOP platform because they say one thing and do the opposite. They run the deficit up every time they are elected. They benefit the wealthy to an obscene degree on the backs of the middle/working class of this country. But I have never seen such a poor Republican as trump. The fact that they have made excuses for him for years is why the party is as it is today. And as an FYI, the moderate, well measured, intelligent members are leaving the party. So put the blame on everyone but trump. It's helping the GOP so much.

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#76 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 1611 Posts

@Solaryellow: Same happened with Obama, where even Trump had that type of discourse himself. Had the good luck of inheriting the good work done by Obama and instead of saying "Ok this was good but I'll make it better" he just wiped his ass on it and demonized anything or anyone that wasn't his or him. Talk about being divisive.

There's no doubt a lot lot to discuss but this victimization from Trump and his supporter is comical. Trump is without a doubt one of the most vicious politicians I can think of. He viciously attacks anyone who opposes him, not only on a political level but personal too.

Before his race he rallied his base with racist innuendos regarding Obamas origin. During his first election he rallied his base to chant for the imprisonment of his main political adversary. Even towards John McCain he was a complete POS. After his loss he shamelessly lied about voter fraud and cared not for consequences, until he became a victim of himself.

Most powerful person in the world yet he keeps playing the victim card. He deserves no sympathy and did very little to deserve any. Very literally he reaped what he sowed.

Oh no, some people were mean to the cruel narcissistic sociopath in the white house. Wha-wh-Whaaaaaaa! Well the other half were enablers.

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#77  Edited By Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh stop with the deflection. trump has no character. He never has. I don't tend to agree with the GOP platform because they say one thing and do the opposite. They run the deficit up every time they are elected. They benefit the wealthy to an obscene degree on the backs of the middle/working class of this country. But I have never seen such a poor Republican as trump. The fact that they have made excuses for him for years is why the party is as it is today. And as an FYI, the moderate, well measured, intelligent members are leaving the party. So put the blame on everyone but trump. It's helping the GOP so much.

Exactly my point being proven. Your side (and save the b.s. claim of being a middle of the roader) wants complete hatred of him. Nothing more and nothing less will be accepted. Everything he says and does is wrong. If someone is not on the wagon of full on hate, look out. Oddly enough the lefties didn't start hating on him until he became a threat in the political world and his lack of character meant nothing to the democrats and certain left leaning power brokers until it looked as if he actually had a chance of winning election. They were lap dogs until it became politically and socially unfeasible. In a more rudimentary way of speaking: People knew his attitude well before he ever got into politics and it meant nothing.

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#78 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 124912 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Oh stop with the deflection. trump has no character. He never has. I don't tend to agree with the GOP platform because they say one thing and do the opposite. They run the deficit up every time they are elected. They benefit the wealthy to an obscene degree on the backs of the middle/working class of this country. But I have never seen such a poor Republican as trump. The fact that they have made excuses for him for years is why the party is as it is today. And as an FYI, the moderate, well measured, intelligent members are leaving the party. So put the blame on everyone but trump. It's helping the GOP so much.

Exactly my point being proven. Your side (and save the b.s. claim of being a middle of the roader) wants complete hatred of him. Nothing more and nothing less will be accepted. Everything he says and does is wrong. If someone is not on the wagon of full on hate, look out. Oddly enough the lefties didn't start hating on him until he became a threat in the political world and his lack of character meant nothing to the democrats and certain left leaning power brokers until it looked as if he actually had a chance of winning election. They were lap dogs until it became politically and socially unfeasible. In a more rudimentary way of speaking: People knew his attitude well before he ever got into politics and it meant nothing.

He was a much smaller fish before becoming President...

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#79  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy  Online
Member since 2015 • 11500 Posts

@Solaryellow: "anyone who did vote for him, etc..., were told they were racist, sexist, bigoted, etc..."

No I think they were just told they were voting for someone who was. It's widely recognized that people had a variety of reasons for voting for Trump. They thought he would give them various things they wanted if they would turn a blind eye to some of his behavior. That's kinda how we got here. Enough people made compromises for him and allowed him leeway because they thought it was a value proposition for them. That's why as the GOP says out of one side of their mouth they hold Trump responsible, they will still not vote to impeach or remove him, actually putting actions behind their recognition of responsibility.

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#80  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

Exactly my point being proven. Your side (and save the b.s. claim of being a middle of the roader) wants complete hatred of him. Nothing more and nothing less will be accepted. Everything he says and does is wrong. If someone is not on the wagon of full on hate, look out. Oddly enough the lefties didn't start hating on him until he became a threat in the political world and his lack of character meant nothing to the democrats and certain left leaning power brokers until it looked as if he actually had a chance of winning election. They were lap dogs until it became politically and socially unfeasible. In a more rudimentary way of speaking: People knew his attitude well before he ever got into politics and it meant nothing.

That's BS. Most people, no matter who they vote for in an election, want the country to succeed. I can guarantee I've probably voted for more R's than you have D's so spare me your attempts to call me biased. trump was on TV before he got involved in politics. He had a reality show. I didn't watch it. Some did apparently since it lasted awhile. I don't think he was revered though or taken seriously. So I don't know what point you want to make but in NY where he lived, he was disliked. So that shows the lie in your sentiment.

I don't like him because he's a bully. He's not well versed in what a president should be educated in. His appointments were not qualified for jobs but merely his yes men. His tax deductions benefited the very wealthy. His trade policy increased prices and hurt farmers. He made the US a joke on the world stage. He refused to take climate change and the corona virus seriously and we have a raging pandemic that's he's checked out on.

His constant lying about the election results with the complicity of other GOP leaders led to an attack on the Capitol on the 6th. And he has not denounced it yet. He didn't do a thing to get help for the beleaguered Capitol and left Congress to their own devices. I'm a veteran and I sat with tears in my eyes watching that happen. So don't you come in here and tell me what I feel about a president who displays no leadership. Who doesn't uphold his oath of office to the country and the Constitution with your better than thou attitude.

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#81 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@girlusocrazy said:

@Solaryellow: "anyone who did vote for him, etc..., were told they were racist, sexist, bigoted, etc..."

No I think they were just told they were voting for someone who was. It's widely recognized that people had a variety of reasons for voting for Trump. They thought he would give them various things they wanted if they would turn a blind eye to some of his behavior. That's kinda how we got here. Enough people made compromises for him and allowed him leeway because they thought it was a value proposition for them. That's why as the GOP says out of one side of their mouth they hold Trump responsible, they will still not vote to impeach or remove him, actually putting actions behind their recognition of responsibility.

You are correct. For some reason those who voted for him, rather than change their stance and recognize he was a poor president, play victim instead.

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#82 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Solaryellow said:

Exactly my point being proven. Your side (and save the b.s. claim of being a middle of the roader) wants complete hatred of him. Nothing more and nothing less will be accepted. Everything he says and does is wrong. If someone is not on the wagon of full on hate, look out. Oddly enough the lefties didn't start hating on him until he became a threat in the political world and his lack of character meant nothing to the democrats and certain left leaning power brokers until it looked as if he actually had a chance of winning election. They were lap dogs until it became politically and socially unfeasible. In a more rudimentary way of speaking: People knew his attitude well before he ever got into politics and it meant nothing.

That's BS. Most people, no matter who they vote for in an election, want the country to succeed. I can guarantee I've probably voted for more R's than you have D's so spare me your attempts to call me biased. trump was on TV before he got involved in politics. He had a reality show. I didn't watch it. Some did apparently since it lasted awhile. I don't think he was revered though or taken seriously. So I don't know what point you want to make but in NY where he lived, he was disliked. So that shows the lie in your sentiment.

I don't like him because he's a bully. He's not well versed in what a president should be educated in. His appointments were not qualified for jobs but merely his yes men. His tax deductions benefited the very wealthy. His trade policy increased prices and hurt farmers. He made the US a joke on the world stage. He refused to take climate change and the corona virus seriously and we have a raging pandemic that's he's checked out on.

His constant lying about the election results with the complicity of other GOP leaders led to an attack on the Capitol on the 6th. And he has not denounced it yet. He didn't do a thing to get help for the beleaguered Capitol and left Congress to their own devices. I'm a veteran and I sat with tears in my eyes watching that happen. So don't you come in here and tell me what I feel about a president who displays no leadership. Who doesn't uphold his oath of office to the country and the Constitution with your better than thou attitude.

Sure you have. That's about as believable as saying LBJ wasn't racist.

My lie? He was friends with power brokers like Winfrey, The Klintons, Barbara Walters, etc.., The babe in the woods routine isn't flattering.

Your second paragraph describes most politicians and by that I mean they aren't perfect in having everyone agree with their policies, they tend to benefit those who help them or have $$$$, they appoint individuals who have zero business or experience in the specific government appointment, etc..,

Your dream about the c19 is a poor fantasy. I easily place some blame on the federal government but I also place it on the states as, you might not be well aware, each state required a different strategy. Not every state required drastic measures. Look at the numbers in this state. The mask mandate has been going on for over six months. Mr Millionaire Wolf shut shit down for multiple periods of time and look where we are at. Tell me what Trump could have done here to better minimize the situation we have thanks to wolf and levine. Those two fools and their response to c19 effect me moreso than Trump. Wasn't the idea of quarantining NYC passed around in March and the democrats almost lost their crap? What could have been done better on a federal level to minimize the state issues?

Crying huh? Tears of joy I bet. There's the hyperbole again with the violating his oath nonsense. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it so.

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#83 ComeOnMan  Online
Member since 2017 • 576 Posts

This sums up what I believe the democrats will accomplish

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#84  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

Sure you have. That's about as believable as saying LBJ wasn't racist.

My lie? He was friends with power brokers like Winfrey, The Klintons, Barbara Walters, etc.., The babe in the woods routine isn't flattering.

Your second paragraph describes most politicians and by that I mean they aren't perfect in having everyone agree with their policies, they tend to benefit those who help them or have $$$$, they appoint individuals who have zero business or experience in the specific government appointment, etc..,

Your dream about the c19 is a poor fantasy. I easily place some blame on the federal government but I also place it on the states as, you might not be well aware, each state required a different strategy. Not every state required drastic measures. Look at the numbers in this state. The mask mandate has been going on for over six months. Mr Millionaire Wolf shut shit down for multiple periods of time and look where we are at. Tell me what Trump could have done here to better minimize the situation we have thanks to wolf and levine. Those two fools and their response to c19 effect me moreso than Trump. Wasn't the idea of quarantining NYC passed around in March and the democrats almost lost their crap? What could have been done better on a federal level to minimize the state issues?

Crying huh? Tears of joy I bet. There's the hyperbole again with the violating his oath nonsense. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it so.

This is why no one takes Republicans seriously anymore or wants unity with such a divisive, hateful mindset.

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#85 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Go cry some more.

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#86 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35181 Posts

@comeonman: so you think democrats will do what Trump did over the last four years, and specifically on January 6th 2021.

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#87  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

@LJS9502_basic: Go cry some more.

Least I'm patriotic and don't follow a seditious party and cheer them on.

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#88 ComeOnMan  Online
Member since 2017 • 576 Posts

@Serraph105 said:

@comeonman: so you think democrats will do what Trump did over the last four years, and specifically on January 6th 2021.

I will agree that Trump has been pouring fuel on the fire since the election. But I can't go along with your statement that Trump has been doing this for four years.

I think that the democrats do not see the need to move on from Trump, and lower the temperature and division building in the country.

I am truly afraid for the future of my country.

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#89 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

@LJS9502_basic: Go cry some more.

Your complaints are funny. It's like if a Nazi complained about how people were so critical of Hitler.

Trump is a lot of things and not so much others but considering his base has largely been racist and support racist views, it's basically calling what it is, especially as Trump pursued policies and espoused rhetoric that has been prejudiced.

Don't like it? Not my problem. Trump and his supporters and enablers belong in the ash heap of history. ;)

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#90 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6068 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

@LJS9502_basic: Go cry some more.

Your complaints are funny. It's like if a Nazi complained about how people were so critical of Hitler.

Trump is a lot of things and not so much others but considering his base has largely been racist and support racist views, it's basically calling what it is, especially as Trump pursued policies and espoused rhetoric that has been prejudiced.

Don't like it? Not my problem. Trump and his supporters and enablers belong in the ash heap of history. ;)

Shocking how long it took a member of the party of tolerance to invoke Hitler. Go comfort Mr. Dresnock up above. He needs it too. I'm sure when senile joe comes into office next week peace and harmony and butterflies and sweet frosted cupcakes falling from the sky will be the norm.

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#91 RatchetClank92
Member since 2020 • 627 Posts

They need to remove him, it’s a bad message to these right wing lunatics to allow him to get away with an act of terror. Also the police at capitol should be held accountable for their incompetence.

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#92 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 2958 Posts

@ratchetclank92 said:

They need to remove him, it’s a bad message to these right wing lunatics to allow him to get away with an act of terror. Also the police at capitol should be held accountable for their incompetence.

some are atm

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#93 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19617 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Solaryellow said:

@LJS9502_basic: Go cry some more.

Your complaints are funny. It's like if a Nazi complained about how people were so critical of Hitler.

Trump is a lot of things and not so much others but considering his base has largely been racist and support racist views, it's basically calling what it is, especially as Trump pursued policies and espoused rhetoric that has been prejudiced.

Don't like it? Not my problem. Trump and his supporters and enablers belong in the ash heap of history. ;)

Shocking how long it took a member of the party of tolerance to invoke Hitler. Go comfort Mr. Dresnock up above. He needs it too. I'm sure when senile joe comes into office next week peace and harmony and butterflies and sweet frosted cupcakes falling from the sky will be the norm.

Why, oh why would nazis be on peoples' minds recently? Hmmmm....

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#94  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 12072 Posts

Saying we need to move on and ignore what's happened, and currently happening, in the name of 'ending divisiveness' is naïve beyond compare. We need to confront and be truthful with what's going on and acknowledge that fault lies primarily at the feet of the right. It's just an attempt at gas lighting. Accountability is needed, and accountability requires us to uphold the law and punish those in violation of our constitution and democratic duties. If we don't it will only encourage this behavior to continue, showing that we have no teeth to protect ourselves from violence and auto-crats like Trump.

I'd expect this type of rhetoric from an abusive relationship, not the core law makers representing our country.

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#95 narlymech
Member since 2009 • 2091 Posts

Dont start thinking the repubs wouldnt impeach biden for these 2 things or 50 other things trump did. They have proven to be major hypocrites this 4 years, like out of the world ones.

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#96  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15989 Posts

@Solaryellow: “For the past number of years we watched cities burn (by the left), police stations occupied (by the left), federal court houses attempted to be burned (by the left) and taken over and having to shut down (temporarily), people killed during occupations (by the left), police killed (by the left) and yet the sky wasn't falling and the government wasn't under threat.......until now when the right is involved. Cut the b.s. with your faux outrage. Unfortunately it isn't a surprise how certain people and media outlets have changed their colors when it comes to what happened.”

C’mon now Solar, you’re smarter than this.

It has nothing to do with the Right being involved, it is intent, and the potential consequence of that intent had it succeeded comparatively to the other that’s the determining factor in which is worse. What would’ve been? The Left killing people? Taking over a few police stations? Court houses and parts of cities being burned and rebuilt? Our country would still emerge. Smoldering, shaken perhaps, but existing with its integrity strong and hopefully ready to take initiative to reform in addressment of such grievances.

This insurrection targeted the very heart of our democracy. The literal halls of our legislature. Had it somehow succeeded (and I agree it was sloppy, but it’s nevertheless what it was), the very fabric and underpinning of our republic would’ve been eradicated. The Constitution would be rendered moot. Our democracy would’ve effectively ceased to exist, and EVERYTHING in our country symbolically would’ve been burned to ashes in an instant.

There is no comparison to be made here, it’s not even a worthy one to note. This was a direct attack in the literal halls of our people with the explicit intent to stop a constitutional process integral to the transfer of power. The Left could burn down the entire fucking COUNTRY and not begin to approach the level of what occurred a week ago. It’s really impressive how in one night, the Right gallingly outdid the Left in their years of collective destruction through one single action, simply by virtue of the implications of the consequences they sought to realize.

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#97 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 12072 Posts

So there are rumors of 10-25 GOP house members ready to impeach Trump. Liz Cheney has also said she would vote for impeachment in the Senate. Given McConnell's 'supposed' shift in stance, could we see more break aways?

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#98 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 172306 Posts

@MirkoS77: He doesn't care. He sees everything as us vs them.

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#99 Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 18594 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

You didn't just say I commit violence, did you?

Maybe I am just being unclear. Why don't the charges of those arrested (and there were a lot) fall in line with your claims and opinions? CNN, of all places, mentioned one man with some sort of napalm bombs, an "assault" weapon and a handgun in his truck some two blocks away from the riot. Another man had handguns and hundreds of rounds of ammo but it didn't specifically where except for being in a trailer parked outside of his hotel when he was arrested. The two men with "zip ties" were not charged with weapons offenses according to the dept of justice. I am merely asking why those involved in an "armed insurrection" in the capitol aren't being charged as such. Not saying there won't be any but if that was an armed insurrection that was the sorriest in recent times.

Small update: This man was just charged with a range of different weapons offences.

Prosecutors claim he had a car full of weapons, including a cooler full of 11 napalm-like molotov cocktails. They also claim he had a list of "good guys" and "bad guys" (possibly some kind of hit list?) and the supposed contact details of Sean Hannity and Ted Cruz.

He's obviously a nutjob, and he wouldn't be the only one in the crowd. Once again, I think we're really lucky that there wasn't a whole lot of deaths of Jan 6.

In other news, the FBI earlier today said they were "looking at significant felony cases tied to sedition and conspiracy", and they think they'll end up charging hundreds of people for their roles in the attack.

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#100  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19617 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan: I'm skeptical they'll have to do any thing. You know, few were really affected by this as directly as Mike Pence. Let's see what he plan on doing as a potential bellwether.