Trump Fact Checked on CA Fires.

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Zaryia

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#1  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

The tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061168803218948096

Firefighter groups: Trump's California wildfire tweet was 'shameful' and 'ill-informed'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

The presidents of two professional firefighters associations have denounced President Donald Trump's assertion that "gross mismanagement of the forests" is to blame for California's devastating fires.

California Professional Firefighters president Brian Rice called the President's words "ill-informed, ill-timed and demeaning" in a written statement.

Harold Schaitberger, General President of the International Association of Fire Fighters, said the comments were "reckless and insulting."

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor," Trump tweeted. "Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!"

CNN Meteorologist Explains Why President Trump Is So Wrong About California's Wildfires

https://earther.gizmodo.com/cnn-meteorologist-explains-why-president-trump-is-so-wr-1830377986

“This is wrong on so many levels,” Sater explained. “This has nothing to do with forest management.”

“We’re not looking at dense forest here,” Sater said while gesturing at a photo of Paradise, California, where the town has been completely wiped out by the fires over the past few days. “Especially down in Malibu!”

“Forest management has nothing to do with mountain winds coming down the passes at 70 miles per hour. Or humidity levels in one hour dropping Thursday from 35 percent down into single digits, dryer than most deserts,” Sater continued.

“It’s like taking funds from the National Hurricane Center until you stop all these hurricanes, it’s the same notion,” Sater said. “But more importantly, people died in their homes, they found bodies outside their homes, in their vehicles trying to flee, outside their vehicles just trying to run away.”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/11/politics/california-wildfires-trump-tweets/index.html

Who lets Trump say this random nonsense?

Fortunately he (or a staffer) somewhat backtracked the next day, but why make such insane comments at first?

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foxhound_fox

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#2 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Since when does he ever speak the truth?

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LJS9502_basic

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#3 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178844 Posts

trump does NOTHING but lie. People are still surprised by this? Or by the fact that he's uneducated and uninterested in education?

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Damedius

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#4  Edited By Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

I worked down there for 6 months. You americans do have weird forest management.

There were fenced off zones where we weren't allowed to use motorized equipment. Some environmental regulations.

Those fenced off areas were a fire waiting to happen. Dead trees all over the place. So much so that it was hard to walk through because you were basically walking over the ground on fallen trees. You had to concentrate and navigate through the area slowly.

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Zaryia

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#5 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Damedius said:

I worked down there for 6 months. You americans do have weird forest management.

There were fenced off zones where we weren't allowed to use motorized equipment. Some environmental regulations.

Those fenced off areas were a fire waiting to happen. Dead trees all over the place. So much so that it was hard to walk through because you were basically walking over the ground on fallen trees. You had to concentrate and navigate through the area slowly.

"California officials and fire experts, including the head of the state’s largest firefighters association, blasted Trump’s comments as simplistic and ill-informed — noting that the federal government itself owns more than half of California’s forest land — and grossly insensitive in its timing."

Trump has failed to note that more than half the forested land in California is under federal control, essentially his jurisdiction. One fire expert said Saturday the president’s statements oversimplify a complicated problem.

“To have a president come out and say it’s all because of forest management is ridiculous. It completely ignores the dynamic of what’s going on around us,” said LeRoy Westerling, a climate and fire scientist at UC Merced."

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mrbojangles25

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#6 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58300 Posts

Do you want to know the big secret to why there are fires? Do you truly? OK, here it is:

1. We had record rainfall not too long ago. Yes, hard to believe, but it happened. In fact it pretty much undid that record drought we were suffering for so many years.

2. Rain, believe it or not, results in growth of plants. Record rain results in massive growth. Grass, trees, plants...the whooooooole shebang.

3. Drought dries out plants. We are suffering another drought. Or, at least, it's really dry. This record rain that resulted in massive growth now resulted in massive amounts of flammable material.

4. California is, for whatever reason, full of oily plants, grass, and trees. Sage brush, eucalyptus, cypress...

5. Add in some [suspected] corporate irrisponsibility, some neglected power lines--looking at you, Pacific Gas and Electric-- and high wind speeds....bam, fire.

6. And, last but not least, aliens love to start fires. Not illegal aliens, I'm talking about space aliens.

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N64DD

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#7 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

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Drunk_PI

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#8 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

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N64DD

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#9 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

I can't hear you over the flat earth videos your watching and all the tin foil.

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TryIt

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#10  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@n64dd said:
@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

I can't hear you over the flat earth videos your watching and all the tin foil.

oh come on being a Russia supporter is not as bad as it seems.

They have free health care and free education for all! that cant be that bad.

but I must say the whole Yoga thing with Russia kinda creeps me out

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Drunk_PI

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#11  Edited By Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts
@n64dd said:
@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

I can't hear you over the flat earth videos your watching and all the tin foil.

You spelled "you're" wrong. lol Trumpettes. At least Trump loves the poorly educated and sellouts.

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TryIt

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#12 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:
@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

I can't hear you over the flat earth videos your watching and all the tin foil.

You spelled "you're" wrong. lol Trumpettes. At least Trump loves the poorly educated and sellouts.

you mean Putin

corrected below

At least Trump PUTIN loves the poorly educated and sellouts.

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Zaryia

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#13  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@n64dd: Yeah those shitty firemen who are working tirelessly in CA that took issue at Trump for saying something objectively false are a bunch of snowflakes.

Facts are having meltdowns now.....

Shit-post less please.

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TryIt

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#14 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@zaryia said:

@n64dd: Yeah those shitty firemen who are working tirelessly in CA that took issue at Trump for saying something objectively false are a bunch of snowflakes.

Facts are having meltdowns now.....

Shit-post less please.

ironic how they are out there fighting fires and yet Trump is the only world leader who was scheduled to be out in the rain who could not muster it.

what a friggin beta male

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LJS9502_basic

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#15 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178844 Posts

@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

Once again n64dd posted nothing of value...........

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hrt_rulz01

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#16 hrt_rulz01
Member since 2006 • 22374 Posts

Lol, are we surprised? The imbecile just says whatever comes into his tiny brain.

And what's more pathetic is that some people actually listen to him.

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N64DD

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#17 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

Once again n64dd posted nothing of value...........

Did some spill milk again? Democrats are having complete meltdowns because their "blue wave" that had all kinds of polls and data ended up being shit.

kek.

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LJS9502_basic

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#18 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178844 Posts

@n64dd said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

Once again n64dd posted nothing of value...........

Did some spill milk again? Democrats are having complete meltdowns because their "blue wave" that had all kinds of polls and data ended up being shit.

kek.

Once again......nothing of value........

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Zaryia

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#19  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@n64dd said: @LJS9502_basic said:

Did some spill milk again? Democrats are having complete meltdowns because their "blue wave" that had all kinds of polls and data ended up being shit.

kek.

1. CA Fire Fighter groups correcting Trump as he stated objectively false things (with very poor timing) = Democrats meltingdown and whining about the blue wave? What are you talking about? Did you accidentally respond to the wrong thread?

2. I'll indulge in your off-topic post. The polling data was mostly correct for the Mid-Terms, and predicted (D) house and (R) Senate with minor seat gains. As most rational people predicted. What are you talking about? Are you one of those people who also thought the 2016 National Polls were wrong even though they were right and super accurate?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

(P.S. Nice WoW originated reference/meme at the end. I knew you loved PC!)

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#20 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

You are incorrect.

We have sold out for Russian women not money. Rubles aren't worth squat. Russian women on the other hand. They make American women look plain.

I blame American women. They need to get their act together and up their game. If they don't we will all be taking orders from Putin

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N64DD

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#21 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia: NE moonkin for lyfe. Love PC gaming.

Honeslty I think we all can agree Trump shouldn’t be on twitter.

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Zaryia

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#22  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Damedius said:
@drunk_pi said:
@n64dd said:

All these meltdowns are burning the wood.

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

. Russian women on the other hand. They make American women look plain.

Disagreed. They look weird imo, and don't age well due to Russia have way lower QOL. Also not diverse enough I like a nice variety of women.

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Zaryia

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#24  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Damedius said:
@zaryia said:
@Damedius said:
@drunk_pi said:

People's lives and property are lost. Great seeing a sellout like you and Jacancuck sellout for Russian money.

. Russian women on the other hand. They make American women look plain.

Disagreed. They look weird imo, and don't age well due to Russia have way lower QOL. Also not diverse enough I like a nice variety of women.

Can't tell if white knight or gay?

Since when does explaining why I find certain types of women more sexually attractive make me a white knight or homosexual? And since when do white knights bash certain women like I did? That was weird of you and made zero sense, to say the least.

Anyways, yes, Russia does have some very hot women. But overall I prefer American ones due to the reasons I listed.

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Damedius

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#25 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@zaryia said:

Can't tell if white knight or gay?

Since when does explaining why I find certain types of women more sexually attractive make me a white knight or homosexual? And since when do white knights bash certain women like I did? That was weird of you and made zero sense, to say the least.

Anyways, yes, Russia does have some very hot women. But overall I prefer American ones due to the reasons I listed.

More than half of American women are classified as obese.

If Tess Holiday is your type of girl, I could see preferring American women.

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Zaryia

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#26  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Damedius said:
@zaryia said:

Can't tell if white knight or gay?

Since when does explaining why I find certain types of women more sexually attractive make me a white knight or homosexual? And since when do white knights bash certain women like I did? That was weird of you and made zero sense, to say the least.

Anyways, yes, Russia does have some very hot women. But overall I prefer American ones due to the reasons I listed.

More than half of American women are classified as obese.

If Tess Holiday is your type of girl, I could see preferring American women.

I don't count nor am I discussing unattractive (imo) women. That includes obese Americans or crusty 3rd world Russian ones. When discussing who I find more attractive, I'm strictly talking about good looking women.

Overall I prefer American ones due to higher living standards and more variety. Also I simply find the Russian models/stars to have this weird look in their face, It's pure opinion don't take it personally.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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JimB

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#27  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3862 Posts

The real culprit is Smokey the Bear and environmentalists. The forest need forest fires to burn the brush away that prevented the mass fires we see today. The environmentalists wanted the forests pristine so there was no removal of the under brush as a result the build up of the under brush caused the fires to burn much hotter causing the larger trees in some cases actually explode. Before when the under brush would burn the trees could withstand the heat those fires caused and not catch fire that can not be said for today.

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Zaryia

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#28 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@JimB: The sources I cited say you are wrong.

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#29  Edited By Lach0121
Member since 2007 • 11783 Posts

Fact checking a pathological liar is a 24-hour job.

Believing a pathological liar, like his supporters do, is also a 24-hour job requiring a massive dedication to being disillusioned, and a champion for misinformation.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#30 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49568 Posts

There is definite mismanagement, especially with respect to the massive drought and beetle infestation which killed millions of trees. Government bureaucracy at the federal level is more to blame than at the state level, as the majority of the forest in California is federally managed. Environmental lobbyists and the timber industry have been butting heads for a long while. There is so much fuel in the forest, and there simply isn't the manpower (incredibly understaffed for years) to keep it maintained.

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Chutebox

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#31 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50556 Posts

I mean, people still act surprised when he utters nonsense. It's expected.

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ronvalencia

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#32  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:

The tweet: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061168803218948096

Firefighter groups: Trump's California wildfire tweet was 'shameful' and 'ill-informed'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

CNN Meteorologist Explains Why President Trump Is So Wrong About California's Wildfires

https://earther.gizmodo.com/cnn-meteorologist-explains-why-president-trump-is-so-wr-1830377986

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/11/politics/california-wildfires-trump-tweets/index.html

Who lets Trump say this random nonsense?

Fortunately he (or a staffer) somewhat backtracked the next day, but why make such insane comments at first?

Need to improve building standards with high fire risk. Our house has roof eaves are very short (reduce expose wood materials) with external window shutters made of metal. It's mostly brick work on the outside with near zero wood materials exposed.

Trump's criticism is based on results.

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ronvalencia

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#33 ronvalencia
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@zaryia said:
@Damedius said:
@zaryia said:

Can't tell if white knight or gay?

Since when does explaining why I find certain types of women more sexually attractive make me a white knight or homosexual? And since when do white knights bash certain women like I did? That was weird of you and made zero sense, to say the least.

Anyways, yes, Russia does have some very hot women. But overall I prefer American ones due to the reasons I listed.

More than half of American women are classified as obese.

If Tess Holiday is your type of girl, I could see preferring American women.

I don't count nor am I discussing unattractive (imo) women. That includes obese Americans or crusty 3rd world Russian ones. When discussing who I find more attractive, I'm strictly talking about good looking women.

Overall I prefer American ones due to higher living standards and more variety. Also I simply find the Russian models/stars to have this weird look in their face, It's pure opinion don't take it personally.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

"3rd world" is not even politically correct i.e. it's either "developed" or "developing".

Russia is not "3rd world" like South Africa .

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Zaryia

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#34  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

Trump's criticism is based on results.

His criticism was partly factually inaccurate and partly misleading. This has been fact checked multiple times,

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

Our research

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

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ronvalencia

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#35  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Trump's criticism is based on results.

His criticism was partly factually inaccurate and partly misleading. This has been fact checked multiple times,

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

Our research

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

Snope's argument is a red herring since the left discourages controlled burning. Hint: Federal government leftist deep state is real.

Full context

Leftist environmental laws has been operating at both state and federal levels. Trump doesn't fully control federal government since there is institutional resistance against Trump admin or institutional inertia for leftist environmental laws.

Only solution to preserve leftist environmental laws while fighting fires are to improve building standards with high fire risk i.e. zero exposed wood based material building structures would have high resistance to forest fires. Window glass needs to be covered during forest fires. Build an old school stone based castle instead.

Notice my argument is coming from the left with experience (Australia's building standards with high fire risk) with forest fires e.g. increase building standards regulation.

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Zaryia

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#36  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Trump's criticism is based on results.

His criticism was partly factually inaccurate and partly misleading. This has been fact checked multiple times,

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

Our research

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

Snope's argument is a red herring since the left discourages controlled burning. Hint: Federal government leftist deep state is real.

Uh huh. Can you directly disprove my 4 fact check links (With Citation) or are you going to just spam conspiracy theories?

Until shown otherwise, Trump's tweets were incorrect and misleading. Like most of his tweets, including recent ones on the stock market drop, climate change, voter fraud, and other shit. Lie. Lie. Lie.

@ronvalencia Full context

It's out of context because that is the wrong tweet, buddy. It's November, not August.

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#37  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Trump's criticism is based on results.

His criticism was partly factually inaccurate and partly misleading. This has been fact checked multiple times,

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

Our research

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

Snope's argument is a red herring since the left discourages controlled burning. Hint: Federal government leftist deep state is real.

Uh huh. Can you directly disprove my 4 fact check links (With Citation) or are you going to just spam conspiracy theories?

Until shown otherwise, Trump's tweets were incorrect and misleading. Like most of his tweets, including recent ones on the stock market drop, climate change, voter fraud, and other shit. Lie. Lie. Lie.

@ronvalencia Full context

It's out of context because that is the wrong tweet, buddy. It's November, not August.

That's a red herring. Trump's argument hasn't changed from August to November.

Leftist deep state has been shown with video recordings.

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#38  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

That's a red herring. Trump's argument hasn't changed from August to November.

Nothing I've written in this thread is a red herring.

Trump made a tweet and over 5 sources have directly corrected that tweet via fact checking, in top of Fire Man groups and forest experts. Feel free to show me what information is incorrect, and disprove it with your own.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Now all I have left is to ask if you also believe his insane voter fraud tweets or insane stock market drop tweet, out of mere curiosity.

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#39 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

That's a red herring. Trump's argument hasn't changed from August to November.

Nothing I've written in this thread is a red herring.

Trump made a tweet and over 5 sources have directly corrected that tweet via fact checking, in top of Fire Man groups and forest experts. Feel free to show me what information is incorrect, and disprove it with your own.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Now all I have left is to ask if you also believe his insane voter fraud tweets or insane stock market drop tweet, out of mere curiosity.

These are repeated well known leftist sources not from original source i.e Trump's twitter postings.

Trump criticized environmental laws.

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#40 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

That's a red herring. Trump's argument hasn't changed from August to November.

Nothing I've written in this thread is a red herring.

Trump made a tweet and over 5 sources have directly corrected that tweet via fact checking, in top of Fire Man groups and forest experts. Feel free to show me what information is incorrect, and disprove it with your own.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Now all I have left is to ask if you also believe his insane voter fraud tweets or insane stock market drop tweet, out of mere curiosity.

These are repeated well known leftist sources not from original source i.e Trump's twitter postings.

Trump criticized environmental laws.

They are merely citing facts. Those sources all have "HIGH" fact ratings.

His tweet, like most of his tweets, are wrong.

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#41  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

That's a red herring. Trump's argument hasn't changed from August to November.

Nothing I've written in this thread is a red herring.

Trump made a tweet and over 5 sources have directly corrected that tweet via fact checking, in top of Fire Man groups and forest experts. Feel free to show me what information is incorrect, and disprove it with your own.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Now all I have left is to ask if you also believe his insane voter fraud tweets or insane stock market drop tweet, out of mere curiosity.

These are repeated well known leftist sources not from original source i.e Trump's twitter postings.

Trump criticized environmental laws.

They are merely citing facts. Those sources all have "HIGH" fact ratings.

His tweet, like most of his tweets, are wrong.

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Well known leftist sources haven't stated any facts.

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#42  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:

Nothing I've written in this thread is a red herring.

Trump made a tweet and over 5 sources have directly corrected that tweet via fact checking, in top of Fire Man groups and forest experts. Feel free to show me what information is incorrect, and disprove it with your own.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Now all I have left is to ask if you also believe his insane voter fraud tweets or insane stock market drop tweet, out of mere curiosity.

These are repeated well known leftist sources not from original source i.e Trump's twitter postings.

Trump criticized environmental laws.

They are merely citing facts. Those sources all have "HIGH" fact ratings.

His tweet, like most of his tweets, are wrong.

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Well known leftist sources haven't stated any facts.

That old link which has no mention of Trump's tweet in no way disproves my 4 factually accurate and current links directly dealing with Trump's tweet. Which you have yet to disprove.

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

Gilless added that Trump’s tweet ignores additional key factors driving California’s recent "firestorms," such as winds reaching near 60 miles per hour and bone dry conditions.

With those extremes, "even good preparation can be overcome," he said.

"I think the biggest problem with the comments was the lack of nuance," Gilless said, describing them as "uninformed." "It is a complex situation. Simple pronouncements on a subject like this are almost always in error."

Asked about Trump’s tweets in an interview on CNN, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection Deputy Chief Scott McLean declined to respond directly, citing "the lack of information given in that tweet."

He went on to describe California’s changing weather patterns.

"What’s been pushing all the fires these last couple years? The winds. The erratic wind behavior. The high temperatures early in the year that have dried out all this vegetation," McLean said.

Fire and climate experts also say the trend of more people moving into wildland areas increases the chances of sparking forest fires.

Jesse Miller, an ecologist who studies wildfires and lectures at Stanford University, described Trump’s comments as "off base and not capturing the complexity of the situation."

"Forest management might be part of the issue, but those are mostly federal lands up there (where the Camp fire started east of Chico). So, (Trump’s) actually in charge of most of those lands. … He’s also not recognizing the role of climate change. That’s by far what I and a lot of people think is the biggest factor driving these fires right now in California."

The White House did not respond to a request for evidence supporting Trump’s tweet.

But the dead trees themselves do not catch fire easily, because they are too big, said Chad T. Hanson, the principal ecologist at the John Muir Project of the nonprofit Earth Island Institute.

A spotlight on the people reshaping our politics. A conversation with voters across the country. And a guiding hand through the endless news cycle, telling you what you really need to know.

“It’s like starting a campfire,” he said. “You don’t put a big log on the fire and put a match to it and expect it to burn — it’s not going to happen. Fires are driven by kindle.”

Logging gets rid of trees, but it does not get rid of the kindling — brush, bushes and twigs. Logging does, however, enable the spread of cheatgrass, a highly combustible weed, which makes a forest more likely to burn.

In fact, the wooded land that abuts Paradise, Calif., the community so badly damaged by the Camp Fire, underwent the kind of post-fire logging that Mr. Trump’s tweet and Mr. Zinke’s article suggested. That was just under a decade ago, Dr. Hanson said, but the city is now in ashes.

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#43  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:
@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

These are repeated well known leftist sources not from original source i.e Trump's twitter postings.

Trump criticized environmental laws.

They are merely citing facts. Those sources all have "HIGH" fact ratings.

His tweet, like most of his tweets, are wrong.

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Well known leftist sources haven't stated any facts.

That old link which has no mention of Trump's tweet in no way disproves my 4 factually accurate and current links directly dealing with Trump's tweet. Which you have yet to disprove.

Trump’s claim suggests the state government controls decisions over how and whether to thin forests, clear brush and set prescribed burns. In reality, California owns just 2 percent of forest land in the state, while the federal government owns upwards of 60 percent, said Keith Gilless, a UC Berkeley professor of forest economics and chairman of the California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection. The rest is owned by private landowners, timber companies and Native American tribes.

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. In August, McClatchy reported the Trump administration "proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars" for tree clearing.

Gilless added that Trump’s tweet ignores additional key factors driving California’s recent "firestorms," such as winds reaching near 60 miles per hour and bone dry conditions.

With those extremes, "even good preparation can be overcome," he said.

"I think the biggest problem with the comments was the lack of nuance," Gilless said, describing them as "uninformed." "It is a complex situation. Simple pronouncements on a subject like this are almost always in error."

Asked about Trump’s tweets in an interview on CNN, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection Deputy Chief Scott McLean declined to respond directly, citing "the lack of information given in that tweet."

He went on to describe California’s changing weather patterns.

"What’s been pushing all the fires these last couple years? The winds. The erratic wind behavior. The high temperatures early in the year that have dried out all this vegetation," McLean said.

Fire and climate experts also say the trend of more people moving into wildland areas increases the chances of sparking forest fires.

Jesse Miller, an ecologist who studies wildfires and lectures at Stanford University, described Trump’s comments as "off base and not capturing the complexity of the situation."

"Forest management might be part of the issue, but those are mostly federal lands up there (where the Camp fire started east of Chico). So, (Trump’s) actually in charge of most of those lands. … He’s also not recognizing the role of climate change. That’s by far what I and a lot of people think is the biggest factor driving these fires right now in California."

The White House did not respond to a request for evidence supporting Trump’s tweet.

But the dead trees themselves do not catch fire easily, because they are too big, said Chad T. Hanson, the principal ecologist at the John Muir Project of the nonprofit Earth Island Institute.

A spotlight on the people reshaping our politics. A conversation with voters across the country. And a guiding hand through the endless news cycle, telling you what you really need to know.

“It’s like starting a campfire,” he said. “You don’t put a big log on the fire and put a match to it and expect it to burn — it’s not going to happen. Fires are driven by kindle.”

Logging gets rid of trees, but it does not get rid of the kindling — brush, bushes and twigs. Logging does, however, enable the spread of cheatgrass, a highly combustible weed, which makes a forest more likely to burn.

In fact, the wooded land that abuts Paradise, Calif., the community so badly damaged by the Camp Fire, underwent the kind of post-fire logging that Mr. Trump’s tweet and Mr. Zinke’s article suggested. That was just under a decade ago, Dr. Hanson said, but the city is now in ashes.

My link proven California Air Resources Board supremacy despite obtaining federal approval for controlled burn.

California Air Resources Board controls the air quality over the state of California. CARB regs exceeds US Federal EPA.

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#44  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@ronvalencia

But your link doesn't prove Trump's tweet to be correct. You're drawing inferences. I'm directly showing you his tweets are wrong. CARB didn't cancel all burns, just look at recent events:

It’s also worth noting that forest management is primarily a federal, not state issue, headed by the Department of Interior and US Forest Service. As the Sacramento Bee reported:

The Trump administration’s own budget request for the current fiscal year and the coming one proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars from the Department of Interior and U.S. Forest Service budgets dedicated to the kind of tree clearing and other forest management work experts say is needed.

Ironically, California has been using the $256m allocated to wildfire risks from the state’s carbon cap and trade system revenues.

Also, you have to prove the scientists are wrong and that controlled burning alone isn't the issue. You have to prove how many controlled burns they declined. You have to prove that federal funding was enough and CARB just cancelled them all (clearly not the case, considering the $256m). You have to prove the areas would still not have burned as my last post showed. I only see data that they've been increasing burns year after year.

Recently, California has pushed for changes to the way its forests are managed, including performing more prescribed burns and advocating for harvesting timber from its forests for wood products or energy production. The U.S. Congress acted this year, too, creating a disaster fund to fight fires and stop diverting funds away from much-needed forest management.

Earlier this year California’s Brown doubled the amount of land open to vegetation thinning, to 500,000 acres from 250,000 acres, and streamlined permits for landowners to clear trees.

You're posting theories based off of an old article. I'm posting facts directly showing Trump's tweets are misleading or false.

Quote the incorrect data in these articles, and prove it is wrong:

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/aug/13/trump-reignited-his-war-with-california-but-his-tweet-got-burned

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#45  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Wrong, taken out of context (they never said the % of planned burns cancelled by CARB in recent years) and out-dated.

It’s also worth noting that forest management is primarily a federal, not state issue, headed by the Department of Interior and US Forest Service. As the Sacramento Bee reported:

The Trump administration’s own budget request for the current fiscal year and the coming one proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars from the Department of Interior and U.S. Forest Service budgets dedicated to the kind of tree clearing and other forest management work experts say is needed.

Ironically, California has been using the $256m allocated to wildfire risks from the state’s carbon cap and trade system revenues.

Also, you have to prove the scientists are wrong and that controlled burning alone isn't the issue. You have to prove how many controlled burns they declined. You have to prove that federal funding was enough and CARB just cancelled them all. You have to prove the areas would still not have burned as my last quote showed. I only see data that they've been increasing burns year after year.

Recently, California has pushed for changes to the way its forests are managed, including performing more prescribed burns and advocating for harvesting timber from its forests for wood products or energy production. The U.S. Congress acted this year, too, creating a disaster fund to fight fires and stop diverting funds away from much-needed forest management.

Earlier this year California’s Brown doubled the amount of land open to vegetation thinning, to 500,000 acres from 250,000 acres, and streamlined permits for landowners to clear trees.

You're posting theories based off of an old article. I'm posting facts directly showing Trump's tweets are misleading or false.

Quote the incorrect data in these articles, and prove it is wrong:

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/us/politics/fact-check-trump-california-fire-tweet.html

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/11/13/reality-check-california-wildfires-trump-forest-management-alvon-newday-vpx.cnn

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jerry-brown-veto-wildfire-bill/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

Wrong. CABA controls Cali's air quality beyond US Federal EPA regs.

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Well known leftist sources haven't stated any facts.

Forest management can be federal matter. but Cali's air quality is a state issue which exceeded US Fed's EPA.

Recently, California has pushed for changes to the way its forests are managed, including performing more prescribed burns and advocating for harvesting timber from its forests for wood products or energy production

The above move is too late.

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#46  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

You're inferring this means CARB has been stopping most major burns. Resulting in CA to squander the hundreds of millions they had to raise for themselves to control burn? If CARB was stopping all or most burns, why would they need to re-allocate $256 million? Why have CA's controlled burns been increasing every year? Clearly CARB are being more and more lax. Can you link an instance were federal forest land (60%+ of CA forest) burning was prevented bay CARB?

Your link doesn't state what you're trying to say it states. Hell, even your link says Brown has made great change.

It’s also worth noting that forest management is primarily a federal, not state issue, headed by the Department of Interior and US Forest Service. As the Sacramento Bee reported:

The Trump administration’s own budget request for the current fiscal year and the coming one proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars from the Department of Interior and U.S. Forest Service budgets dedicated to the kind of tree clearing and other forest management work experts say is needed.

Ironically, California has been using the $256m allocated to wildfire risks from the state’s carbon cap and trade system revenues.

And, are all the scientists wrong?

But human-caused climate change is clearly a major contributor. Under a high-emissions global warming scenario, a 2011 studyfound that by the end of the century the annual area burned by wildfires in California would increase by about 50%, and would double in heavily-forested Northern California.

Climate Change made matters far worse, WHILE funding was already low, WHILE the federal government did some mismanaging.

Trump was incorrect. Trump was speaking in present tense, which is why he threatened funding NOW. Deal with it man.

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#47  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

You're inferring this means CARB has been stopping most major burns. Resulting in CA to squander the hundreds of millions they had to raise for themselves to control burn? If CARB was stopping all or most burns, why would they need to re-allocate $256 million? Why have CA's controlled burns been increasing every year? Clearly CARB are being more and more lax.

Your link doesn't state what you're trying to say it states. Hell, even your link says Brown has made great change.

It’s also worth noting that forest management is primarily a federal, not state issue, headed by the Department of Interior and US Forest Service. As the Sacramento Bee reported:

The Trump administration’s own budget request for the current fiscal year and the coming one proposed slashing tens of millions of dollars from the Department of Interior and U.S. Forest Service budgets dedicated to the kind of tree clearing and other forest management work experts say is needed.

Ironically, California has been using the $256m allocated to wildfire risks from the state’s carbon cap and trade system revenues.

And, are all the scientists wrong?

But human-caused climate change is clearly a major contributor. Under a high-emissions global warming scenario, a 2011 studyfound that by the end of the century the annual area burned by wildfires in California would increase by about 50%, and would double in heavily-forested Northern California.

Climate Change made matters far worse, WHILE funding was already low, WHILE the federal government did some mismanaging.

Trump was incorrect. Trump was speaking in present tense, which is why he threatened funding NOW. Deal with it man.

It's worth noting that despite obtaining federal approval, federal wildland managers has to obtain permission from CABA, hence establishing supreme authority.

https://www.fs.fed.us/sites/default/files/usfs-fy18-budget-overview.pdf

Budget Overview – The 2018 Forest Service budget for discretionary appropriations is $4.73 billion, a decrease of $938 million below the 2017 annualized Continuing Resolution. It includes $1.75 billion for the management of National Forest System lands and $2.5 billion for Wildland Fire Management. The Administration outlined specific guidance and priorities in the FY 2018 Budget Blueprint to Make America Great Again. In particular, these are:

Fully funding wildland fire preparedness and suppression activities at $2.4 billion. Suppression is funded at 100 percent of the 10-year average for suppression expenditures to ensure the resources necessary to protect life and property.

 Reducing funding for lower priority activities in the National Forest System, such as new Federal land acquisitions; instead, the 2018 President’s Budget focuses on maintaining existing forests and grasslands

Budget cuts was for new Federal land acquisitions

Deal with it.

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#48  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

It's worth noting that despite obtaining federal approval, federal wildland managers has to obtain permission from CABA, hence establishing supreme authority.

You're drawing inferences from that but providing no proof. How many controlled burns did CARB prevent from the 60%+ owned Federal Forest Land?

They give the permission, but what do they do when not enough requests even come down the pipe? Or funding? CA can't even keep up with the amount of funds it got to do controlled burns and had to divert $256million on of it's own cash. CA controlled burns increase every year. Obviously CARB isn't stopping much.

Your own LINK is at odds with TRUMPS TWEET.

In May, Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order to improve forest management, and with it, a dramatic change.

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor."

Donald Trump on Saturday, November 10th, 2018 in a tweet

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#49  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ronvalencia said:

It's worth noting that despite obtaining federal approval, federal wildland managers has to obtain permission from CABA, hence establishing supreme authority.

You're drawing inferences from that but providing no proof. How many controlled burns did CARB prevent from the 60%+ owned Federal Forest Land?

They give the permission, but what do they do when not enough requests even come down the pipe? Or funding? CA can't even keep up with the amount of funds it got to do controlled burns and had to divert $256million on of it's own cash. CA controlled burns increase every year. Obviously CARB isn't stopping much.

Your own LINK is at odds with TRUMPS TWEET.

In May, Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order to improve forest management, and with it, a dramatic change.

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor."

Donald Trump on Saturday, November 10th, 2018 in a tweet

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Published on Jul 16, 2018

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Too bad for you, there are U.S. Forest Service media complaints even after Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order on May 2018

PS; It's too late.

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#50  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ronvalencia said:

https://www.kqed.org/science/1927354/controlled-burns-can-help-solve-californias-fire-problem-so-why-arent-there-more-of-them

Published on Jul 16, 2018

Even when the permit is done and the weather is right and crews are available, the air might already be too polluted to add more smoke to the mix. Air regulators grant permission for burn days, and it’s hard to get: regional atmospheric conditions mean that smoke from Sierra Nevada forests funnels toward the central valley, where air pollution is consistently bad.

...

"We have to protect public health; that's our mandate,” says Dar Mims, a meteorologist with the California Air Resources Board. “But we also recognize that we need burning in the forest, and a lot of those trade-offs have to happen in real time because the decisions have to be made—do we want to potentially impact the air basin, or do we want to burn.”

Too bad for you, there are U.S. Forest Service media complaints even after Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order on May 2018

That link doesn't say how many requests CARB denied or prevented.

That link doesn't say how many requests the Federal Government, who owns most of that Forest, issued.

That link does disagree with Trump. Your inference of that link conflicts with Trumps tweets,

In May, Gov. Jerry Brown issued an executive order to improve forest management, and with it, a dramatic change.

Ironically, California has been using the $256m allocated to wildfire risks from the state’s carbon cap and trade system revenues.

And,

The state has made significant investments in forest management, he said, but "has no leverage" over the federal government to do the same. California policymakers are now trying to address these problems through a spate of new laws and increased funds. In May, Gov. Jerry Brown released an executive order and Forest Carbon Plan to improve forest management. And he requested $96 million to help fund the effort. The Legislature passed a series of laws in June to help contain the wildfire threat.

And,

Jesse Miller, an ecologist who studies wildfires and lectures at Stanford University, described Trump’s comments as "off base and not capturing the complexity of the situation."

"Forest management might be part of the issue, but those are mostly federal lands up there (where the Camp fire started east of Chico). So, (Trump’s) actually in charge of most of those lands. … He’s also not recognizing the role of climate change. That’s by far what I and a lot of people think is the biggest factor driving these fires right now in California."

The White House did not respond to a request for evidence supporting Trump’s tweet.

You're drawing inferences. I'm quoting direct facts. Trump was wrong - and he spoke in the present tense and threatened FUTURE/CURRENT funding. Facts are Facts.

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor."

Donald Trump on Saturday, November 10th, 2018 in a tweet