Trump dismisses whistleblower complaint

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Horgen

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#1 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121727 Posts

Source

The Washington Post, definitely among one of President Donald Trump’s least favorite news outlets, published a story on Wednesday night that made tremendous waves. The president’s Thursday response sparked a lot of commentary and rapid reaction among legal experts.

The story regarded a whistleblower complaint that “triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress.” According to WaPo, that complaint involves a “promise” Trump made to an unknown foreign leader that was deemed “so troubling” that an unnamed whistleblower filed a complaint with the U.S. intelligence community’s inspector general — a complaint the IG “determined […] is both credible and urgent,” per House Intel Committee Chairman Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.). It’s also a complaint Acting Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Joseph Maguiredeclined to hand over to Congress. It’s also a complaint that the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) advised Maguire to withhold.

President Trump reacted to the story on Thursday by calling it “Fake News,” and dismissing as “dumb” anyone who believed something “inappropriate” had occurred. The tweets when combined:

Another Fake News story out there – It never ends! Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. No problem! Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. I would only do what is right anyway, and only do good for the USA!

These tweets were not received well.

It’s not “fake news.”

Steve Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law, said that three key aspects of the reporting were “not fake news”: 1) that the whistleblower complaint exists; 2) that the IG concluded the complaint was “credible”; 3) that the DNI did not forward the complaint to congressional intelligence committee.

Vladeck noted earlier — and others have highlighted this as well — that for this matter to “qualify as an ‘urgent concern’ under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, 50 U.S.C. § 3033(k)(5)(G),” the IG “had to conclude that the complaint identified conduct that meets the following statutory definition.”

This was the statutory definition Vladeck and other legal scholars pointed to:

A chilling effect?

National security lawyer Mark S. Zaid, who frequently represents whistleblowers but not this whistleblower, said that the way this was handled by the Office of the DNI is “undermining the existing [whistleblower] protections” and is “contributing to potential future harm to our [national security].”

CNN law enforcement and national security analyst, former FBI agent Josh Campbell, argued that the White House’s “obstructi[on] [of] alleged reports of abuse” will have a chilling effect on whistleblowing in the future.

Another protracted legal slugfest on the horizon?

CNN legal analyst and attorney Ross Garber suggested that this may be yet another situation “in which the directive of a statute (here that Congress be alerted to certain whistleblower complaints) may conflict with the Executive Branch’s assertion of its Constitutional powers and privileges.”

He, and others, noted that the Obama Administration took the same Executive Branch position.

In closing, Garber said that if Congress takes this to court, which we have seen time and again, it would be on “very shaky ground given that the information it is seeking relates to the President’s authority to conduct diplomacy and almost certainly will be considered diplomatic, national security, and/or military in nature.”

Lots of tweets as well in the article, as this copy/paste isn't really doing the article justice.

My take. Of course he dismissed it. What else would he do?

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LJS9502_basic

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#2 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

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Nuck81

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#3 Nuck81
Member since 2005 • 7907 Posts

I mean, can anyone imagine Trump saying something, or making a boast to a foreign country, rather it was true or not.

It's so out of his character

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Zaryia

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#4 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts

This is pretty crazy news, headlining everywhere.

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warmblur

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#5 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3544 Posts

Everyday is like.

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mrbojangles25

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#6  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 45029 Posts

He will get away with this, too.

It's frustrating because I feel like there is nothing I personally can do about this. I mean, I could write a letter I guess?

True or not, his demeanor and attitude (dismissive, to put it bluntly) is very troubling. If I was accused of this I'd take it seriously.

There is absolutely no class to this prick. Literally anyone would be better than Trump at president. I'm not exaggerating. My 5 year old niece would be better. My anarchist coworker that didn't graduate high school, he'd be better. The potato in my kitchen that has started to grow those little white rootlets, he/she/it would be better.

@LJS9502_basic said:

... if Congress actually would do their job...

God, that would be nice, wouldn't it?

Think of all we'd accomplish.

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Evil_Loli

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#7 Evil_Loli
Member since 2018 • 272 Posts

Now to figure out which dictator he was talking to.

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Horgen

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#8 Horgen  Moderator
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@evil_loli said:

Now to figure out which dictator he was talking to.

Putin or Abdel Fattah al-Sisi I guess. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is his favourite dictator.

@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

Remember when he flat out said "draining the swamp" was a lie? His cult must have missed that part.

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Vaasman

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#9  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14079 Posts

@horgen said:

Remember when he flat out said "draining the swamp" was a lie? His cult must have missed that part.

Can't drain the swamp if you are the swamp. That would be suicide, and suicide is illegal, and Trump never does anything illegal, he's the most legal person probably ever.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#10  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 8734 Posts

Weird, he's wondering why nobody else is coming forward yet made everyone sign NDAs to stop leaks and replaced everyone with 'acting' titles so they feel they still haven't got the job yet and need to stay on his good side

He said why aren't people on the other side of the conversation haven't come forward? If it's illegal activity why would they admit to it, and why blow whatever 'pro!mise' may have been made...

All the questions he's asking are easily answered.

Still complaining about fake news but doing nothing to stop it... Funny, he uses executive privileges for everything except solving his problems.

Just release a redacted version of the complaint if there is something so sensitive.

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JimB

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#11 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2669 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

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Horgen

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#12 Horgen  Moderator
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@Vaasman said:

Can't drain the swamp if you are the swamp. That would be suicide, and suicide is illegal, and Trump never does anything illegal, he's the most legal person probably ever.

Trump can't suicide in the eyes of his cult.

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

And yet you believe Trump?

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LJS9502_basic

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#13 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

Link? Because that is a falsehood.

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warmblur

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#14 warmblur
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Horgen

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#15 Horgen  Moderator
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@warmblur said:

Congress won't act. Anything the House does will be stopped by the Senate, more specifically Moscow Mitch McConnell.

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#16 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 16225 Posts

@JimB said:

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

Reality's a bitch, isn't it?

Apparently, Trump asked Ukrainian president to investigate Biden's son. Eight times. Oh, and also that he should work with Rudy.

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Zaryia

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#17 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts

Huge new WSJ article on this, just wow:

Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden’s Son

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176

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Horgen

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#18 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121727 Posts

@zaryia: Why not ask US intelligence agencies?

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#19 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

Gone for what? "making a promise"

No word on what the promise was or if it was actually carried out.

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warmblur

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#20  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3544 Posts

@horgen said:
@warmblur said:

Congress won't act. Anything the House does will be stopped by the Senate, more specifically Moscow Mitch McConnell.

I agree 100 percent but Nancy Pelosi is worthless too she's like a episode of Seinfeld she's all about nothing.

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#21 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

Link? Because that is a falsehood.

False?

Ok, so explain how someone in the intelligence community could have heard the conversation? while not being present in the white house near Trump? and also if I recall there are no legal tapes out there.

Try harder please, also this thread. Guess Peter and the Wolf is an unkown tale here.

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#22  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14079 Posts

Speculation points to a certain amount of aid required by Ukraine to hold Donbas from Russia. Approximately 250million dollars in aid dangling up the air for the last few weeks.

Pressuring a foreign government to help you cheat politically, on it's own, is already damning. However, I suspect given how big this is getting, this speculation has a lot of credibility (especially since Russia is suddenly reinforcing the point and Ukraine is suddenly pulling out). If this is the case, we are looking at unprecedented, clear cut blackmail and/or bribery (which is, of course, impeachable).

Something something fake news, something something nothing burger.

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#23  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 36781 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Even if Congress impeached, Moscow Mitch will snipe it down.

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#24  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14079 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@LJS9502_basic: Even if Congress impeached, Moscow Mitch will snipe it down.

Mitch on his own can't snipe an impeachment proceeding as the Senate leader doesn't operate it. Moreover he can be dumped at any time if the Senate is wanting it without any delay. We just need 20 folks in the GOP senate who will agree to wake the **** up.

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#25 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts

@Vaasman said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@LJS9502_basic: Even if Congress impeached, Moscow Mitch will snipe it down.

Mitch on his own can't snipe an impeachment proceeding as the Senate leader doesn't operate it. Moreover he can be dumped at any time if the Senate is wanting it without any delay. We just need 20 folks in the GOP senate who will agree to wake the **** up.

Don´t be sure all democratic senators would vote for a guilty, some of them may put actually justice in front of leftists feelings.

Also, some are in red states which will also make them think twice since they would need to go back to their voters and make sure their decision is backed up with actual evidence.

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#26  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

Gone for what? "making a promise"

No word on what the promise was or if it was actually carried out.

Trump asked Ukraine president to investigate Biden's son eight times in one phone call: reports

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/462378-trump-asked-ukraine-president-to-investigate-bidens-son-eight-times

Doesn't matter if it was carried out (like with his Obstruction), the fact that he was pressuring a foreign government to look this dirt up is extremely troubling and I see why the Whistleblower and IG took great issue with this.

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#27  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@Vaasman said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@LJS9502_basic: Even if Congress impeached, Moscow Mitch will snipe it down.

Mitch on his own can't snipe an impeachment proceeding as the Senate leader doesn't operate it. Moreover he can be dumped at any time if the Senate is wanting it without any delay. We just need 20 folks in the GOP senate who will agree to wake the **** up.

Don´t be sure all democratic senators would vote for a guilty, some of them may put actually justice in front of leftists feelings.

You do know many legal experts disagree with you when it comes to the 10 potential counts of Obstruction right? So it's only a "feeling" in your opinion, if that is what you are discussing.

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#28  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Jacanuk said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

Gone for what? "making a promise"

No word on what the promise was or if it was actually carried out.

Trump asked Ukraine president to investigate Biden's son eight times in one phone call: reports

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/462378-trump-asked-ukraine-president-to-investigate-bidens-son-eight-times

Doesn't matter if it was carried out (just like it doesn't matter if his Obstruction orders were not carried out), the fact that he was pressuring a foreign government to look this dirt up is extremely troubling and I see why the Whistleblower and IG took great issue with this.

If this is all it was then again it´s a nothing sandwich.

Don´t you ever get tired of crying wolf? just get rid of Trump by voting in 2020.

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#29  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts
@Jacanuk said:

If this is all it was then again it´s a nothing sandwich.

Completely nonsensical and invalid opinion based off of nothing. This is what we know:

Following the standard process, the IC IG conducted an independent, preliminary investigation to evaluate the credibility of the whistleblower’s complaint. That office found the disclosure credible and that it satisfied the statute’s definition of an “urgent concern.”

@Jacanuk said:

Don´t you ever get tired of crying wolf?

The IG cried wolf? Citation?

@Jacanuk said:

just get rid of Trump by voting in 2020.

What does this sentence have to do with any of my statements regarding this whistle blower matter? Are you lost?

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LJS9502_basic

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#30 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

This from the intelligence career people who illegally spied on him and his campaign and administration. I don't believe anything from the government agencies or the press any more.

Link? Because that is a falsehood.

False?

Ok, so explain how someone in the intelligence community could have heard the conversation? while not being present in the white house near Trump? and also if I recall there are no legal tapes out there.

Try harder please, also this thread. Guess Peter and the Wolf is an unkown tale here.

Pay attention to the conversation before veering off course with your apologies.

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sonicare

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#31 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 57096 Posts

I'd say I'm shocked, but it's Trump. The guys has no shame.

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#32 plageus900
Member since 2013 • 2804 Posts

Today, I watched a belligerent Trump supporter get punched in the face while getting arrested.

What started out as a traffic stop turned into a filthy incel yelling about how he won't tolerate liberal Oregon cops. He stepped out of his truck (decorated in Trump stickers) and got popped in the mouth. It was glorious.

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#33  Edited By Nuck81
Member since 2005 • 7907 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@zaryia said:
@Jacanuk said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Doesn't matter to his base. They would sell the country out to continue supporting him. Personally if Congress actually would do their job...……..he'd be gone.

Gone for what? "making a promise"

No word on what the promise was or if it was actually carried out.

Trump asked Ukraine president to investigate Biden's son eight times in one phone call: reports

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/462378-trump-asked-ukraine-president-to-investigate-bidens-son-eight-times

Doesn't matter if it was carried out (just like it doesn't matter if his Obstruction orders were not carried out), the fact that he was pressuring a foreign government to look this dirt up is extremely troubling and I see why the Whistleblower and IG took great issue with this.

If this is all it was then again it´s a nothing sandwich.

Don´t you ever get tired of crying wolf? just get rid of Trump by voting in 2020.

Threatening to withhold 100's of millions in aid unless they investigate his political opponents is a nothing burger?

Also, you guys remember all those times Trump claimed that "The real collusion was with Hilary"?

That lie was based on the false claim that Hilary was working with Ukraine to get dirt on Trump.

The GOP can't even spell irony...

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#34 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 8734 Posts

He says the whistleblower report is part of a deep state conspiracy. It's his 3rd year in office and he hasn't gotten anywhere in dismantling the deep state or draining that swamp apparently. Maybe if he sinks enough putts...

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#35 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2669 Posts

Biden blackmailed the Ukraine's in to dropping and investigation involving Biden's son Hunter. Biden also used his office to get his son Hunter 1,5 billion dollars. That all should be investigated. Of course you never heard about it in the mainstream media and never will. They are PR people not journalists.

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#36 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11039 Posts

@JimB said:

Biden blackmailed the Ukraine's in to dropping and investigation involving Biden's son Hunter. Biden also used his office to get his son Hunter 1,5 billion dollars. That all should be investigated. Of course you never heard about it in the mainstream media and never will. They are PR people not journalists.

I'm starting to think you're just the ghost account of Rudi G. at this point. American Thinker again, JimB?

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ad1x2

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#37 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 7870 Posts

I see a lot of posters talking about Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden's son, but nobody talking about what Biden's son allegedly did to to prompt an investigation being mentioned...

Loading Video...

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#38 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 17664 Posts

@ad1x2: Are you ****ing serious?

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#39 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts

@Nuck81 said:

Threatening to withhold 100's of millions in aid unless they investigate his political opponents is a nothing burger?

Also, you guys remember all those times Trump claimed that "The real collusion was with Hilary"?

That lie was based on the false claim that Hilary was working with Ukraine to get dirt on Trump.

The GOP can't even spell irony...

Oh, i can see the irony there.

But one thing is what he might have said and one is what he has done. Trump is a businessman so he approaches every deal with the same ideas. Is it a good thing, well who knows but there is nothing illegal about it.

Also it¨s strange that you guys are not concerned that your guy is corrupt, Biden and his son have deep ties to Ukraine and that needs to be investigated.

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#40  Edited By ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 7870 Posts
@mattbbpl said:

@ad1x2: Are you ****ing serious?

I let all of you have your usual anti-Trump circlejerk thinking this will be another impeachment gotcha, maybe some of you should look at all sides of the story.

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#41 Horgen  Moderator
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@JimB said:

Biden blackmailed the Ukraine's in to dropping and investigation involving Biden's son Hunter. Biden also used his office to get his son Hunter 1,5 billion dollars. That all should be investigated. Of course you never heard about it in the mainstream media and never will. They are PR people not journalists.

Should it not be investigated by US agencies?

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#42 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts

@horgen said:
@JimB said:

Biden blackmailed the Ukraine's in to dropping and investigation involving Biden's son Hunter. Biden also used his office to get his son Hunter 1,5 billion dollars. That all should be investigated. Of course you never heard about it in the mainstream media and never will. They are PR people not journalists.

Should it not be investigated by US agencies?

Not really since he didn´t break any US laws.

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warmblur

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#43 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3544 Posts

I just want to know where is corn pop in all of this?

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#44  Edited By Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121727 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:
@JimB said:

Biden blackmailed the Ukraine's in to dropping and investigation involving Biden's son Hunter. Biden also used his office to get his son Hunter 1,5 billion dollars. That all should be investigated. Of course you never heard about it in the mainstream media and never will. They are PR people not journalists.

Should it not be investigated by US agencies?

Not really since he didn´t break any US laws.

Ah blackmailing is legal in US. Good to know.

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Zaryia

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#45 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 10420 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@Nuck81 said:

Threatening to withhold 100's of millions in aid unless they investigate his political opponents is a nothing burger?

Also, you guys remember all those times Trump claimed that "The real collusion was with Hilary"?

That lie was based on the false claim that Hilary was working with Ukraine to get dirt on Trump.

The GOP can't even spell irony...

but there is nothing illegal about it.

Citation?

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Jacanuk

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#46 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts

@horgen said:

Ah blackmailing is legal in US. Good to know.

Despite what you may think, Ukraine is not America.

So I hope I don´t have to explain jurisdictions to you?

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LJS9502_basic

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

@ad1x2: Are you ****ing serious?

I let all of you have your usual anti-Trump circlejerk thinking this will be another impeachment gotcha, maybe some of you should look at all sides of the story.

The president is NOT above the law.

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mattbbpl

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#48 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 17664 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: He's hopeless. We have a president accused of extorting a foreign ally via national security policy to gain a personal political advantage, and he's asking why we aren't discussing Biden's son's actions instead.

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LJS9502_basic

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#49 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167965 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: He's hopeless. We have a president accused of extorting a foreign ally via national security policy to gain a personal political advantage, and he's asking why we aren't discussing Biden's son's actions instead.

Yeah I guess I can't understand the cultist behavior wherein trump can trample all over out laws and constitution and they defend him. It's sad.....so very sad.

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#50 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11039 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: He's hopeless. We have a president accused of extorting a foreign ally via national security policy to gain a personal political advantage, and he's asking why we aren't discussing Biden's son's actions instead.

Extortion and blackmail at the foreign policy level is a pretty black and white impeachable offense. But leave it up to Donnie Dotard and his goons to try and spin it on Biden.