Trump bears most blame for shutdown (POLL)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/politics/cnn-poll-shutdown-trump/index.html

Amid the longest government shutdown in US history, a majority say Donald Trump bears more responsibility for it than the Democrats in Congress, and the President's disapproval rating has climbed five points since last month, according to a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS.

RELATED: Full poll resultsNegotiations between the President and congressional leaders have stalled as neither side seems willing to budge on funding for a wall along the border with Mexico. That proposal remains deeply unpopular with the public, according to the poll. Overall, 56% oppose a wall, 39% favor it. That's almost exactly the same as in December. And less than half view the situation at the border as a crisis (45% say it's a crisis, 52% that it is not).

On top of most people not wanting the wall, and the fact that he's using the livelihood of 800,000 workers to try and get the wall. Pretty bad.

He's 100% to blame for it.........

Can't imagine why....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/11/trump-oval-office-meeting-pelosi-schumer-shut-down-government

Trump can't avoid ownership of this outside of his base (who will believe whatever he tells them at any given time). All that's left at this point is the political leverage, and that's fairly simple.

Assume Trump continues the shutdown to the 2020 elections in an effort to secure his wall. Would Republicans be optimistic about their chances? How about Democrats?

There's your leverage.

He knows that if he doesn’t get the wall now he can all but forget about it between now and 2020. This is pretty much his last chance if declaring an emergency doesn’t get through the courts. It is really hurting him in the polls if CNN is correct.

At the same time, this isn’t helping Democrats either. With our total annual budget, the fact that they won’t sign off on five billion dollars for the wall when a few years ago they were praising building barriers and other border security measures makes them look petty at best and in favor of open borders at worst (even if they don’t outright state they want open borders)

When it’s all said and done, the right isn’t letting workers get paid because they want a wall, and the left isn’t letting workers get paid because they don’t want to expand on the wall that is already in place.

Why didn't he focus on the wall the first two years?

The decision was his, so it's all 100% his responsibility.

Right wing news was the difference maker.

I know they made him not sign the bill he said he would sign at first. But he had the opportunity to do it.

This is all smoke and mirrors to the real issue.

The Democrats standing firm against the wall is 99% politics, not policy. They concede, and they're weakened. While I believe there is a degree of objection to the wall stemming from things such as the disgusting symbolism it represents to our national values not to mention the fiscal irresponsibility and logistical nightmare it necessitates, the main motivation of its rejection is to weaken Trump's standing to be able to get things done. In that, the Democrats need to remain firm as what is at risk for them far surpasses what the wall would achieve. The same with Republicans. This wall really is nothing but a front for a far more significant and meaningful victory that will hold ramifications far past it. That's what makes this shutdown so concerning.

The whole situation still makes the Democrats look like hypocrites because of statements from current and former serving Democrats praising the idea of building a barrier on the southern border. When President Obama was in the White House, some of the same people calling the wall wrong to include Senator Schumer were the ones saying that we need to build one, although in more politically correct terms. Many of them were saying that migrants have no right to cross the border illegally, now we’re suddenly bigots for saying they need to be stopped.

It also makes Speaker Pelosi look like she is contradicting herself when she called the wall “immoral” when she was criticizing it. If it’s immoral, then what is immoral about it, the fact that it may reduce illegal crossings? Possibly immoral because the next caravan trying to rush the border will be met by steel and concrete instead of tear gas? Considering that she says it wouldn’t work, then is the immorality based on it being a waste of a small fraction of the amount of money we send to foreign nations every year, some of whom despise us?

Before you say it to correct me, the Republicans aren’t innocent in this either. They could have funded the wall with the Nuclear Option a long time ago after the president took office. Now, we’re dealing with the current shit show that may end with Trump declaring an emergency to fund the wall so he can sign a bill that gets federal workers paid and Democrats going to court to stop wall funding as a reaction.

I'm shocked that 45% of the poll thinks the border is a "crisis" type of situation, that seems really high imo.

Crisis is like, I don't know...the water has been off for a week, or the power is out, or there's no food, flooding, hurricane, tornado, and so on. But the border? A crisis? Really? Yikes.

No, this is ALL on him.

People evolve. Trump used to be a democrat, Obama against same sex marriage, etc.

But to your point, even if demos look like hypocrites, Trump looks like an idiot for saying Mexico would pay for it and he couldn't actually come up with that promise.

merk on the 13th

od on the 14th

Border security shouldn’t be a Democrat or Republican issue, but it has evolved into one. While most Democrats won’t outright endorse open borders because it is a great way to lose independents and some more moderate Democrats (far-left Democrats that believe any attempt to enforce immigration law is racist would be all for it, but they aren’t enough to win elections nationwide), they are indirectly endorsing it when they demonize border control agents and ICE. Who can forget potential 2020 presidental candidate Senator Kamala Harris bring up the comparison of ICE to the KKK?

The wall in itself may not be the best option to stop illegal immigration, since visa overstayers and people smuggled in through other means are still going to be an issue. However, to say that it would do absolutely nothing at all would be ridiculous. That would be like saying there is no point in locking your front door because it wouldn’t stop a team of cartel assassins from breaking it down and killing you. Never mind that it would still stop most other intruders that aren’t as sophisticated. The wall may not stop the cartel from digging under it, but your average caravan members aren‘t going to be digging under it.

Trump should have never claimed that Mexico would pay for the wall, now he is paying for that blunder. One more thing, the idea that politicians evolve isn’t always true. Their public positions evolve in order to satisfy their base, even if that may or may not be their private positions. If the majority of the country was still against the LGBT cause then President Obama would probably still be against gay marriage too.

The Trump shutdown is certainly heating up. Hopefully his disapproval rating goes up with every passing week. There's going to be a breaking point in the coming months and he might have no choice. Does he swallow his pride and look like the moron he truly is? Or will his own party override a veto once they realize public opinion is turning against them?

I mean as much as he wants to put it on Democrats post shutdown, he literally said on television that he will be taking responsibility for the shutdown.

Much to the amusement of Chuck Schumer who be all like

@ad1x2: The whole situation still makes the Democrats look like hypocrites because of statements from current and former serving Democrats praising the idea of building a barrier on the southern border. When President Obama was in the White House, some of the same people calling the wall wrong to include Senator Schumer were the ones saying that we need to build one, although in more politically correct terms. Many of them were saying that migrants have no right to cross the border illegally, now we’re suddenly bigots for saying they need to be stopped.

What do you expect when Trump's rhetoric is taken into account? Calling the majority of immigrants rapists and criminals, what he said about that judge, calling places "shitholes", treating this issue like we're fighting an invasion and painting immigrants in the worst possible light imaginable, among others. But no, we can't suspect the motivation to build this wall stems not from only political motivations and ideological distinctions, but instead driven from a deep seated personal bigotry of which Trump's character and past easily suggests and supports. The only hypocrisy that would exist in Democrats' opposition to the wall now as opposed to then is if Trump didn't take such initiative to belittle and consistently demonize an entire population.

It also makes Speaker Pelosi look like she is contradicting herself when she called the wall “immoral” when she was criticizing it. If it’s immoral, then what is immoral about it, the fact that it may reduce illegal crossings? Possibly immoral because the next caravan trying to rush the border will be met by steel and concrete instead of tear gas? Considering that she says it wouldn’t work, then is the immorality based on it being a waste of a small fraction of the amount of money we send to foreign nations every year, some of whom despise us?

Do you believe that such adamant objection from the Democrats would exist had Trump not addressed this issue in incredibly disgusting terms as he has? I sincerely believe they'd be much more willing to work with him on this considering their past positions had he not. The point here is that to build the wall that Trump wants is to acknowledge and legitimize his abhorrent rhetoric and attitudes towards these people which stands antithetical to our values as a nation. It is, in action, to degrade them. To concede them to the values of the much lesser individual who unfortunately presides over us. That's why it's immoral. So perhaps before Republicans continue their bitching and moaning as to why they're not getting this wall of theirs and play the poor victim for being claimed bigots, maybe they should take a look at the character and actions of the person they're backing who's most advocating it.

I don't know if there's a breaking point for Trump on this issue outside of declaring a national emergency to go around Congress, but there certainly is for Congressional Republicans. Fortunately for them, they can take if out of his hands if they ever get to that point.

I'd have thought you would not be susceptible to the propaganda about the wall but apparently you fall for it as well. Democrats are on board with increased border security. They do not want to WASTE money on a damn wall that isn't addressing how the majority of illegals are in the country nor how drugs enter the country. It's a damn vanity issue for trump. Period.

Exactly. Both parties passed a bi-partisan bill in December which Trump said he would sign for increased border security, but when conservitive talk show hosts put pressure on Trump he backed out and now is blaming democrats. I mean who understands the guy?

Democrats support border security. Obama was big on it.

You're conflating border security with only the unpopular Trump Wall.

That's one of the few ways I see it ending.

1) A veto is overridden by Congress.
2) Trump declares a national emergency and a new bill (minus the wall) is passed. Lawsuits ensue.
3) Trump capitulates and somehow declares victory?

Somethings got to give.

Democrats give in and fund the wall in order to restore basic governance functions.

Don't laugh, I could easily see it happening.

I don't think they want to set that precedent. And the GOP and trump are the ones that are getting the most blame anyway.

I could see it happening too. However, I think public opinion would need to swing in the opposite direct for them to see any political expediency to do so.

We should want to support border security in spite of what our political enemies say, not avoid it just to spite them. If Trump is as bad as Democrats claim, then giving in on the wall won’t result in his second term, and once the Democrats retake the White House they can pass a new bill halting further construction on the wall. Assuming Trump loses reelection the new president will take charge in two years and it’s highly unlikely they will even come close to finishing it in two years.

Instead, they are fighting just to deny Trump a “win.” Also, it is still making the Democrats look bad because the wall isn’t the only issue. Like I said, when you are demonizing the very law enforcement that is enforcing immigration law it makes you look like someone that doesn’t want immigration law enforced in the first place. It also doesn’t help when the media went all out to make the two migrant children that passed away recently as the fault of the president, but they gave almost no coverage to the police officer born in Fiji that was murdered by the illegal immigrant the day after Christmas.

By the way, get mad at me if you want for telling you this, but most reasonable people knew that the “rapists and murderers” comment was in regards to a small fraction of illegal immigrants. The media went out of their way to twist it and make it appear he was saying ALL Mexicans (legal or not) were those things.

I’m not a huge fan of the wall, but if it prevents any more incidents where people are calling border patrol heartless monsters for using tear gas to stop people from trying to storm the border then it’s a small price to pay. Most reasonable people know that illegal crossings isn’t the only way they get into the country, but there are a large amount of people that do get in that way. Those other methods we can use to slow down illegal immigration are hard to put in place too since many of the people responsible for performing those methods have been demonized recently, especially Border Patrol and ICE.

$5.7 billion for a slat steel wall is laughable. Estimates are anywhere from 70 billion to 100 billion in material and real estate. His concrete wall was around 25 just for materials.

5.7 doesn’t even move the needle. So if anyone is doing this for a political win, it’s trump.

Dems should continue to do what they are doing. Otherwise any time this fat orange baby wants money for something he will shut down the government.

@ad1x2We should want to support border security in spite of what our political enemies say, not avoid it just to spite them. If Trump is as bad as Democrats claim, then giving in on the wall won’t result in his second term, and once the Democrats retake the White House they can pass a new bill halting further construction on the wall. Assuming Trump loses reelection the new president will take charge in two years and it’s highly unlikely they will even come close to finishing it in two years.

We should absolutely spite any politicians that strive to implement policies that are predicated upon values we reject as a nation. We can have border security while not legitimizing Trump at the same time. You just told me that Democrats were in favor of border security and building walls, and that they are hypocrites. We would still appropriate funds, just not for this imbecilic, wasteful wall which will be viewed as a monument to Trump's narcissism and bigotry and indicative of his worst inclinations and symbolic of his bankrupt values he wishes to instill in the nation.

Instead, they are fighting just to deny Trump a “win.” Also, it is still making the Democrats look bad because the wall isn’t the only issue. Like I said, when you are demonizing the very law enforcement that is enforcing immigration law it makes you look like someone that doesn’t want immigration law enforced in the first place. It also doesn’t help when the media went all out to make the two migrant children that passed away recently as the fault of the president, but they gave almost no coverage to the police officer born in Fiji that was murdered by the illegal immigrant the day after Christmas.

Sure it's largely political. As I said, this fight also transcends the wall and it's going to hold big political ramifications for the loser and winner. For the record, I don't agree with the demonization of law enforcement, border agents or ICE, but that perception is Trump's fault. Had he not behaved as he has for so long, people wouldn't be looking upon those who enforce what he speaks on as the Gestapo. Trump has made it harder on everyone with his irresponsible, xenophobic and fear mongering rhetoric, including himself in getting his agenda passed.

By the way, get mad at me if you want for telling you this, but most reasonable people knew that the “rapists and murderers” comment was in regards to a small fraction of illegal immigrants. The media went out of their way to twist it and make it appear he was saying ALL Mexicans (legal or not) were those things.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

His phrasing here painted a large fraction as criminals, drug dealers, and rapists. "Some" are good people. Not most, some. The media didn't twist a thing, in fact Trump's supporters did, and you're not the first that I've seen attempt it.

Well of course. If you say Mexico is going to pay for the wall, had 2 years of a republican controled congress, a bipartisan bill is passed by both parties - and yet somehow you do a 180 because you're mad you lost control of congress... it isn't denying a win, more like making sure this manbaby doesn't get his milk.

@blackballs: @MirkoS77: The safety of our country should never take a back seat to making a political point or denying a political opponent the opportunity to meet a campaign promise, whether it is a border wall or affordable healthcare. Donald Trump will not be the president forever, but the actions of the Democrats over the remainder of his presidency will affect this country long after he leaves office.

Keep telling people that a wall and ICE/Border Patrol are racist enough and the feeling isn’t going to go away when the person sitting in the Oval Office has a D behind their name. It doesn’t help when some Democrats as well as many media outlets that traditionally report negative news about the president go out of their ways to ignore incidents like Mollie Tibbets and Officer Singh‘s murders because it brings questions about whether or not they would still be alive if the men accused of murdering them were stopped from entering the country.

...those weren't ignored. They were national stories, but in both cases the killer has been caught, meaning the stories drop out of national attention because there's always some new crisis to grab the public's attention

Yeah, it's almost like he brought in a bunch of cameras and then said "i will shutdown the government"

Then why is okay to be lacking TSA agents rightnow? And FDA employees? This isn't about the safety of the country......it's pure ego. Stop falling for his BS. By the way we aren't in any danger from the immigrants nor those seeking asylum. Get real.

What about the border patrol that was a serial killer? Maybe they are the problem.