Trump Administration's response to the coronavirus pandemic has led to between 130,000-210,000 deaths.

“130,000 – 210,000 Avoidable COVID-19 Deaths – and Counting – in the U.S.”

Direct Link to the factual report so you don't deflect: https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deaths-US-NCDP.pdf

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/health/covid-response-deaths-columbia-report/index.html

The Trump Administration's faltering response to the coronavirus pandemic has led to anywhere between 130,000 and 210,000 deaths that could have been prevented, according to a report released Thursday by a team of disaster preparedness experts.

Insufficient testing, a lack of national mask mandates or guidance, a delayed overall response and outright mocking of basic public health practices by the administration has put the United States at the top of the global coronavirus death toll, the report from Columbia University Earth Institute's National Center for Disaster Preparedness finds."We estimate that at least 130,000 deaths and perhaps as many as 210,000 could have been avoided with earlier policy interventions and more robust federal coordination and leadership," the report reads.

"The data establishes that a significant number of lives could have been saved if the Trump administration acted on the advice from the scientific and public health community," said Dr. Irwin Redlener, founding director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia. "As the country faces a second wave of this virus, we need to hold leadership accountable. The magnitude of loss, caused by a disorganized response, will have devastating and long-lasting consequences for millions of American families."

Not sure how anyone can still be behind this disasters Administration after more and more studies come out on how bad they objectively screwed up. Sadly we can put a more concrete number of the deaths caused by gross inaction by certain individuals now.

He didn't screw up. He decided that your lives we're less important than his ego/reelection.

Yet if he placed your lives above his ego/reelection, he would have most likely had both. Now he might have none.

@horgen: Right! With a little up front pain and delayed gratification, he could have dressed himself in the robes of a hero.

Some people rise to the occasion, others don't.

So they took the mortality rates of other nations and multplied with the US population. Any high school student could have done this “research”. It’s laughable.

I really despise abusing the good name of science for political goals.

Does Trump strike you as one with patience though??

@horgen: No, not at all, lol. It's one of the reasons he's a particularly unqualified leader.

Ahh look, an arm-chair scientists!

Question, do you all understand how the government of the United States of America works? Do you know what Trump would have had to implement to have a real federal response to COVID?

I'm sure those of your ilk would have been all for him reducing your liberties, right? /s

All he had to do was wear a mask and his sheep would have followed him.

His pride stopped him from doing it and cost 100k+ lives

Did you read the report you posted? I could do the same study in excel in five minutes. And it’s written by four people. How can you be so naive that you think this is a scientific study?

I understand disliking Trump, but don’t turn off your brain!

I did read it. I don't find issue with the methodology - but that's us getting subjective. I disagree with your unprofessional opinion on this matter. Naïve? I never used the word study in this thread.

But it is in tune with detailed studies that show major mistakes by the US.

Because it is written on the Internet so he takes that as the truth ONLY if it supports his narrative. Just like he takes outlooks and uses them as fact, like outlooks can't be wrong?Seriously this person can't think for himself outside of the narrative driven drivel he can pull out of a Google search.

I mean if it was just my narrative you're going to be able to find a report or study from a reliable source that shows the opposite. And you would post it. And you would use that data to shut me up.

But we can only find studies and reports pointing in this direction....so you don't use the smart approach and refute me with your own citation. It's as if you're objectively wrong.

You're ad-homs are not very good.

Sorry I have a hard time trusting any news source that provides any information anymore from BOTH sides. It is getting very hard to separate the politically biased data from both sides so I tend to not read it anymore. So much news is politically driven and I am sorry you can't see it.

Again both sides are at fault for this crap. Also social media and large tech companies are making this even worse!

There is no issue with the methodology. Just as there is no issue with finding the mass of two ham sandwiches by putting them on a scale. It’s just not worthy of four people, a couple with phd:s. They are using their titles and their university to supply CNN with more “science” to hit Trump with.

I hate that stuff.

CNN is fully capable of doing the multiplication themselves. This is just a trick to fool uncritical people to think that there is more weight to it.

Absolutely! The ”scientists” commenting on climate change at Fox are far worse than this 😆

It should be easy to find a study or report showing Trump is not responsible for some of the poor Covid-19 response.

You won't find it because that's literally not what happened. That's just a fact. It's why you're coming up short. Same reason why you can't find serious climate studies saying AGW is fake now, or studies saying the Earth his Flat.

Guys it's just human lives. Chill!

You seriously don’t need a study, scientists or a news organisation to point it out. The data is freely available.

The US is around 4.25% of the world population and it has around 20% of the total global COVID-19 infections and 20% of the total deaths.

If anyone thinks this is anything other than Trump’s tragic management of a pandemic then I am speechless.

So the people that aren't wearing mask, are making personal decisions to not do so?

You now its not just Trump supporters not wearing mask right?

You know that many of the most hard hit places, aren't places that voted in mass for him right?

So it sounds to me, the personal decisions of individuals are costing 100k lives.

Now if we want take away their personal decision, the best method to do so it at the state level, because you know, this is the United States of America. Again, I ask would you (and those of your ilk) have been fine with Trump limiting your liberties?

Where did I bring Trump in any of this. Again this is what you do when you don't have a response, you immediately go to Trump. Quit using Trump as your escape goat. I was talking about how studies and news is biased now which is TRUE. If not why the heck do we have to use websites to see how a media source leans now. Seriously man!

Oh good! We've used personal liberty arguments to excuse endangering others during a pandemic!

The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty... Plainly the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of the word liberty.

Biden doesn't even know where he is 99% of the time. Nothing indicates that less life's would have been lost with him in charge.

@wiiboxstation: Everyone who bought into the gop's Biden senility propaganda should feel absolutely embarrassed. They've proven that they'll be a mark for the same scam again and again.

nice straw man their.

florida wants to have a word with you. so does texas. try again.

Don't forget padding his bank account and those of his friends.

You're getting to be laughable with these threads.

Theres 223,000 deaths right now. So this study is saying if Trump listened to the experts, we could be at only 13,000 deaths? Riiiiight. Unless it's just my state, Americans don't wear masks when its mandated. They don't stay home. They do what they want. Trump couldn't have stopped this. Studies, as you like to use, show that the majority of us will get the virus at some point. All we're doing right now is slowing the infection rate down a little bit. Deaths are going to occur.

@Xabiss: She, her, herself. Zaryia's a woman. Things make a little more sense when you know this while reading her threads. Not being sexist. Just men and women think differently on things and it's nice having a mix in here.

@heathen75: Lol, I assume that meant scapegoat but that's pretty funny.

@joshrmeyer: I'm sure he did, but I couldn't help myself.

Most do. Unfortunately those who don't wear them or are complaining about having to wear them are the trump supporters. Imagine that.

That's a bit of antiquated thinking dude.......

@heathen75 said:

@Xabiss said:

@zaryia said:

@Xabiss said:

Sorry I have a hard time trusting any news source that provides any information anymore from BOTH sides. It is getting very hard to separate the politically biased data from both sides so I tend to not read it anymore. So much news is politically driven and I am sorry you can't see it.

Again both sides are at fault for this crap. Also social media and large tech companies are making this even worse!

It should be easy to find a study or report showing Trump is not responsible for some of the poor Covid-19 response.

You won't find it because that's literally not what happened. That's just a fact. It's why you're coming up short. Same reason why you can't find serious climate studies saying AGW is fake now, or studies saying the Earth his Flat.

Where did I bring Trump in any of this. Again this is what you do when you don't have a response, you immediately go to Trump. Quit using Trump as your escape goat. I was talking about how studies and news is biased now which is TRUE. If not why the heck do we have to use websites to see how a media source leans now. Seriously man!

Sorry for the mistake. It happens.

I never knew that, but I don't think it changes anything really. I don't ever assume gender or race when I respond to any threads to be honest.

South Korea and New Zealand both showed that you can shut this down hard with active test tracing and well developed leadership moving the cultural needle in one direction.

If Trump had just said "I agree with science and masks are the coolest!" Then masks wouldn't even be an issue save for the 1-2% of the population that's just out and out crazy. Fact is, as a demagogue leader his followers will do whatever he wants, and if he wore masks in public like a responsible adult we we wouldn't be here.

That's not to mentioned the clusterfuck of non-leadership on display for the whole situation in terms of government organization. If he hadn't fired the pandemic team then we could have had a far more comprehensive responses ready. If he hadn't left handling to states and forced them to all literally bid for supplies we'd have centralized and organized supply networking.

And if he wasn't downplaying it and telling people to stop taking it seriously, maybe that minority population that still listens to him would be taking it seriously. Even now he's trying to convince people losing 200k (soon to be 300k) Americans is no big deal and also there was nothing we could have done, but other developed nations are clearly demonstrating that is false.

Why should by default have higher death rates than other developed nations? It's almost as if you are saying US shouldn't be compared to other developed nations... That perhaps US isn't as developed as we are led to believe.

@Xabiss: Don't be sorry. That was an awesome mistake.

I have an Egg McMuffin maker at home. I slipped and called it the McMuffer once. It is now and forever more known as the McMuffer in my house now.

I make grammar mistakes all the time, so I am use to it. I wish I could write better, but I have always had issues. Grad school was a bitch because of it. Writing my thesis took FOREVER, but in the end my study/work was published.

I edited/rewrote my thesis so many times my professor finally told me to stop.

Oh no, CNN blaming the Trump for the failures like Cuomo, who'da thunk it?

Want to compare our countries based on the amount of international traffic?

travelling is the only reason for higher death rate?

The death rate among the infected is actually very low. Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, UK, Switzerland, Australia, France, Ireland, Sweden, and Italy all have higher death rates for those infected. Maybe it's because we have better hospitals and better doctors, or better technology. But for people who have caught it, they're more likely to survive here than in most of those "developed" nations.

Is denial a response?

@Vaasman: Different culture. Different geography. Sorry, if people have to mimic what Trump does for public health, then we're all screwed regardless. Like you said though, this is a very small amount of people. So it wouldn't make much difference anyways. Maybe the experts shouldn't have been telling us not to wear masks in the beginning of the spread. Telling us that you're more likely to get the virus by wearing a mask(which is actually still true).

Did you mean to say this? Do you think wearing PPE increases the chances of catching diseases?

@tenaka2: He did. Trump supporters lie to protect Trump.

I don't think it has much of an effect tbh. CDC shows about 85% infected either wear a mask all the time or most the time, while a poll suggests 74% of American's wear them so the effect is minimal at best purely by the numbers. However, it could have the effect of people BELIEVING they're useful, and putting themselves into situations that could be more harmful to themselves or others.. like coughing through the mask because you think it works, rather than using the inside of your elbow, or the inside of my coat as I do.

A parallel I can draw to this is NFL vs rugby, where the violence and full contact of each sport is actually about the same, but concussions are far, far more common in NFL where they wear state of the art helmets while rugby players wear non at all. Why? Because the NFL player feels they can take more risks because they feel they are better protected from injury, while a rugby player isn't going to run into a tackle head-first.

Protection, when it isn't particularly useful against a given disease or injury, can result in more disease or injury out of the false sense of security it provides. Masks provided that false sense of security.

False, do not lie please. This has already been discredited.

You're misrepresenting those figures.

The study's headline finding was that the 154 study participants who had tested positive were much more likely to have reported dining at a restaurant in the two weeks before the onset of their illness than were the 160 people who had tested negative.