Trump administration now wants to dismantle ObamaCare in its entirety

In December, U.S. District Judge Reed O’Connor in Fort Worth sided with a group of Republicans -- Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton spearheaded the lawsuit, alongside 19 states -- who sued to end ObamaCare, arguing that congress had eliminated a key provision in the legislation when it passed the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. The tax overhaul repealed the individual mandate, which required Americans to either get health insurance or face a financial penalty.

In a filing with a federal appeals court, the Justice Department said it agreed with a December ruling by a federal judge in Texas that struck down one of the biggest legislative accomplishments of the Obama administration as unconstitutional.

If ObamaCare is repealed, it would likely leave 32 million people without health insurance by 2026, according to a Congressional Budget Office report from 2017 about the effects of repealing the ACA. Average premiums would also likely spike as a result.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-administration-now-wants-to-dismantle-obamacare-in-its-entirety

This would represent a sizable disruption for good or Ill. I think it's specious reasoning on the legal front and counterproductive on the economic front, but what are your thoughts?

I'll ask the same thing I ask every time they try to get rid of it: what is the proposed alternative? Nothing?

So the GOP is trying, again, to upend our current structure completely, with no plan to iterate, improve, or replace it. All it would do is hurt a lot of folks who already can't afford a single medical emergency. And when enough people's paycheck to paycheck becomes horrible medical debt and destitution, it becomes time to eat the rich.

"The Individual Mandate can no longer be fairly read as an exercise of Congress's Tax Power and is still impermissible under the Interstate Commerce Clause — meaning the Individual Mandate is unconstitutional," O'Connor wrote in his ruling, according to Bloomberg. "The Individual Mandate is essential to and inseverable from the remainder of the ACA."

Sounds like there is no reason to keep it.

I may go back to not having to not having insurance, but I need to know if I can do it without jumping through hoops. A lot of people don't realize how difficult it is to get something as simple as a quote when you don't have insurance. Sometimes you can flat out be denied service. Not a great way to treat what is mainly poor people.

Why not go further? Medicaid and Medicare is costing rich people far too much money. Get rid of all of it and leave even more poor people to die. It's the most cost effective route.

What Republicans need to understand, is that the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare just to be clear) was kind of the last chance to save the free market insurance system. If this goes away, it pretty much makes single-payer health care (Medicare) a near inevitability. Medical costs have been outpacing inflation for decades now. That situation is not sustainable and will lead to a crash. When that happens, Medicare will be the only thing left standing because it's backed by taxpayers.

This won't end well for the GOP.

Why? Everything else seems to.

The scary thing is that it could still take decades to get people to agree on some form of medicare for all even with more and more people going into unpayable debt, or just being left to die without treatment. There's no guarentee or historical precedent for doing something in the world of healthcare quickly just because people are hurting.

When the number of people in unpayable debt start affecting productivity and profits, the tune will change. Profits seems to be almost the only language that would be understood.

So.. Unless I am mistaken. Cost of emergency will rise as well as cost of insurance as fewer and fewer people will foot the bill in reality while the number of people needing treatment most likely won't go down. Self-driving cars will probably lower the rate of car accidents, but it probably takes a while before there is enough self driving cars to make an impact on car related injuries. In the meanwhile, the population continues to grow.

The healthcare debate was one of the big reasons for their massive House loss in 2018.

This is a very very bad issue for them.

Yet not so bad that a massive vindication can't overcome. People need to start factoring in the Russia findings into their calculations; it's going to permeate into everything. This grants the GOP the massive benefit of the doubt not only respective to the collusion narrative, but of the GOP's selling and furtherment of policy. Legitimacy has been granted, and the ramifications will reverberate far past what the investigation encapsulated.

That's a shame. While far from perfect, it is much better than the alternative.

I personally don't see this happening. They aren't all of a sudden going to like the GOP's wildly unpopular policies because of the investigation being over. Just like they didn't like them before Trump.

Healthcare always backfires for them.

I'm not singling out healthcare in this point, but overall. The results of this investigation are not only going to strengthen the GOP, they're going to have people seriously questioning the credibility and competence of the Democrats (well, much more so than they already do) and that extends into policy. It's not like this investigation's over and we're back to where we started before it began.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overall is a pessimistic mood. I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican but an Independent. But after this ruling, Trump's fairly assured to have 2020 on lock down, two more SC Justices are guaranteed to be appointed (or at least one for sure), and this is tending towards a severe ideological slant in government. It's concerning to me.

Hints for the Democrats, if Trump uses UK's Nigel Farage to argue for certain points, Democrats should use Nordic/CANZUK politician who created low overhead single payer health care + private insurance duel system e.g. Australia's Paul Keating.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/from-the-archives-1984-medicare-is-introduced-in-australia-20190130-p50ui0.html Australia's Medicare history, it's creation and issues that surrounds it's predecessor i.e. Medibank.

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http://theconversation.com/why-biologics-were-such-a-big-deal-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-48595

To reduce universal health's cost, does the Democrats has the courage to fix the current "data-exclusivity-medications" which dampen open competition?

Australian center-right wing government has identified US "data-exclusivity-medications" condition as the killer to their universal health care system and that's against Obama administration.

Australia's center-right wing government shown to be more left wing in defending Australia's single payer system.

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https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

It's harder for GOP or Trump to argue against experienced politician who created Australia's operational single payer system.

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Context

PS; On medicare issues, I'm on the left side/3rd way politics but I disagree with Bernie Sanders/AOC's arguments. Any single payer health care delivery must be done with maximum efficiency and promote open competition.

Australia's center-right wing government shamed Obama administration and Democrats on creating low overhead single payer system.

If you need some sort of comfort, let me go ahead and point out a few things.

1. Current polling suggests "vindication" against collusion has done very little for Trumps approval. In the YouGov poll, he is at 41%, actually down from their last poll. And he has only gained anywhere between one to three points in polls conducted this week by Morning Consult and Ipsos compared to their last polls. Which is not nothing, but considering this was supposed to be a major win, it hardly seems like people are suddenly shifting to his side. Scandal-a-day fatigue works both ways.

2. The full picture of the investigation is not known, and our current summary is given by someone who specifically was chosen because of his track record for making Republican scandals go away, and doesn't believe in presidential obstruction. If and when details are revealed, I highly suspect there's still a lot of bad shit, whether it's criminal or otherwise. Probably no pee tape though, thankfully.

3. The report doesn't make terrible policy go away. If he gets what he wants and dumps a bunch of people's healthcare for no reason with no alternative, he's in trouble. If he keeps the economy in a rut or causes it to stagnate, he's in trouble. If USA continues to be at the front of egregious civil rights violations, be they immigrants or our own citizens in some cases, that's trouble too. He's still under 15-20 other investigations over other potential issues. There are still a lot of factors at play before 2020.

None of that is to say that he couldn't win, and indeed, the report as we know it now has potentially saved him from impeachment, primary, or a one-sided whoopin in 2020. But to say he's locking anything down because he isn't literally, brazenly betraying the country, is the exact kind of defeatist attitude the Russian trollfarmers want you to feel.

Not to mention Hillary "won" several investigations yet still struggled for 2016 (even before Comey shamed her).

This is nothing.

That will kill a lot of older GOP voters, that's why. Keep your government hands out of my Medicare!

@HoolaHoopMan: That's far more cost effective than paying for them to live.

@mattbbpl:

https://truepundit.com/white-house-and-nancy-pelosi-test-out-partnership-to-fight-high-drug-prices/

White House And Nancy Pelosi Test Out Partnership To Fight High Drug Prices

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/26/trump-and-pelosi-teams-in-early-talks-about-drug-price-legislation.html

Both Trump and Pelosi teams up on reducing the drug prices.

The Trump administration is in early talks with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s staff about legislation to lower prescription drug costs, a White House official tells CNBC.

Recall from http://theconversation.com/why-biologics-were-such-a-big-deal-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-48595

Australia has single out US "data-exclusivity-medications" condition as the killer to their universal health care system. Low drug cost also benefits the private insurance health care.

@ronvalencia: You have to add more context in your replies. I agree that the us needs better cost controls and a more robust healthcare system. Beyond that agreement, I don't know how to address your reply without additional context.

Obama Care is like Australia's first universal heathcare system i.e. Medibank with run away heath care cost, hence the following (Australian) conservative Fraser government killed it.

After the Fraser government, Hawk's Labor government created another universal heath-care system i.e. Medicare with cost controls (the credit goes to then treasurer Paul Keating).

Cost controls and open competition regulation (i.e. government mandated open competition capitalist regulation**) are important to sustain universal heath care and lower cost private insurance.

**3rd way method, can't trust bastard corporations with monopolistic behavior.

Like I said, if you want to argue for a more robust healthcare system, I'm with you - not against you.

US already has single payer health care system via the VA system, but high drug cost is killing it.

"Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney guarantees Americans covered by 'Obamacare' won't lose health care"

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/mulvaney-guarantees-americans-covered-obama-health-care-law/story?id=62062573&__twitter_impression=true

How, Mick? Because as far as I'm aware, people who are covered under a law that is ruled unconstitutional are no longer legally able to keep their coverage.

If you want this law gone so badly, why are you so uncomfortable with it's repeal's effects?

Republicans have no interest or plan in repealing Obamacare. Nothing but rabbling the ignorant base.

The administration is implementing a plan to repeal. What they don't have is a plan to replace.

@mattbbpl: Its not a serious effort. Like I said, they have no plans for it to actually be repealed. Its just a show

Taking it out of the party's legislative hands by putting it in the judicial system and then abdicating a defense of it in that system isn't a serious effort? Unless we assume partisan cooperation between the legislative and judicial systems, it certainly isn't controlled.

@mattbbpl: it's not a serious effort. Nothing Trump does is a serious effort. It's just to rabble the base.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/436572-gop-lawmakers-root-against-trump-in-court-on-obamacare

Look at how other countries do it. I agree with @Vaasman and @Serraph105:

I've heard quite a few complaints about Obamacare and I'm sure it's not ideal. But what is the alternative that will take its place? I hope it's not nothing...

And honestly, IF there is going to be no alternative it would be more honorable at this point to hunt down the poorest and kill them in public than to strangle them slowly and pretend nothing is happening. That you still care somehow about anyone but the richest. It would be more cost effective, and it would create jobs.

Just look at other countries and how they resolved health care. There are so many countries who have done a better job of it.

§

I think Trump just want to undo everything Obama did.

@horgen: yeah, Obama made fun of him in a speech one time.

Where he couldn't retort.

@horgen: Trump's facial expression was well worth it.

You can literally see the hate spewing from his greasy pores

https://youtu.be/zeGpLg0b3DE

Talk about wanting a one way street when it comes to make fun of people.

FALSE, Australia has both single payer and private insurance and both systems are being supported by pro-open competition medical patents and pro-generics to lower medicine's cost.

Yes above a certain income level the government levies a surcharge to make the wealthy buy private insurance. Weren't you guys whining about the US doing something similar?

@mattbbpl: yeah Republicans punting on healthcare.

It wasn't a serious effort.

Republicans know healthcare is a loss for them. They are scared shitless of it.

Right, basically Obamacare but with a public option.

What I'm saying is if you kill off Obamacare and let the private system's costs continue to spiral out of control, it will eventually crash.

Australia's Medicare levy surcharge (MLS) above a certain income level is like paying for private insurance without the extra benefits.

The base income threshold (under which not liable to pay the MLS) is $90,000 AUD ($63,754 USD) for singles and $180,000 AUD ($127,525 USD) for families.

http://theconversation.com/why-biologics-were-such-a-big-deal-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-48595

During Obama administration, Australia's center-right wing federal government has identified out US "data-exclusivity-medications" condition as the killer to their universal health care system and medicines subsidy's cost controls (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme). Aussie's medical patent system also supports private insurance system's cost controls.

Australia's Medicare system is version 2.0 universal health care attempt with Medibank system being version 1.0 universal health care attempt.

ObamaCare is not like Australia's Medicare single payer system i.e. Federal government pays directly to public hospitals without private insurance overheads.

The Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”) aims to expand coverage to about 30 million Americans by requiring people to buy private insurance policies (partially subsidizing those policies by government payments to private insurers) and by expanding Medicaid.

In the US, VA health care system is already single payer, but weak cost controls weakens the system.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/26/trump-and-pelosi-teams-in-early-talks-about-drug-price-legislation.html

White House and Pelosi's staff in early talks about legislation to cut high drug costs

The strong cost controls must be in place before any VA single payer health care service expansion.

3rd way method, Federal government must be strong against medical professional unions and extreme profit-seeking corporatist i.e. bash both left and right wing ideologies.

No one should be surprised by this. This administration has done a real good job of fu***ng things up so far... And they won't stop until they are gone.

In between talking about the "oranges" of the mueller report, and lying about his father being born in Germany, Trump said that republicans are really geared up to take on healthcare, because it's a yuge problem, and needs to be fixed. Republicans will cone up with the best healthcare plan.

But only after the 2020 Election.

And only if he wins.

And only if he wins, and they win the senate.

And only if he wins, they win the senate, and they take back the house.

THEN Republicans will take on healthcare.

Maybe they have a plan to where they give the Rich really great healthcare, and they hope that the great healthcare will trickle down to everyone else.