Trump admin to roll back light bulb efficiency requirements set to take effect in 2020

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Serraph105

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#1  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 34180 Posts

Several years ago I remember a debate on Intelligence Squared about climate change, and one of the first counterarguments made by to people who were generally against the idea of fixing climate change was that "No one is really against efficiency."

Cut to several years later and we have a president who is actively working against policies that would implement greater energy efficiency yet also claiming that they want energy independence for the US.

This week, the Trump administration announced that it would be rolling back energy efficiency requirements for light bulbs that were set to take effect in 2020. The rules would have increased efficiency requirements for the traditional ‘light bulb’ shaped bulbs, and phased out the incandescent and halogen bulbs used in special applications such as candle-shaped lights, bathroom vanities, and recessed lighting. Those requirements, originally set up during the Bush administration and finalized under President Obama, were aimed at moving the country further away from energy-inefficient incandescent lights and towards more efficient options like LED lights.

Science journalist and author Annalee Newitz joins Ira to talk about the light bulbrule shiftand other stories from the week in science,

https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/a-dimming-plan-for-lighting-efficiency/?fbclid=IwAR2TCjIo9MFXUgzSnJ3opW0fZPZ9yZR06ak5A5rIs7PvUJeH6Ckx_I-ynJU

I will say that businesses seem to be smart enough to implement these light bulbs regardless of what Trump is doing. They understand that it pads their bottom line to have their energy costs be as low as possible, and if you don't believe me then the next time you're out and about somewhere, take a look up, if they don't have the big fluorescent tube lights, they will have the LED or CFL bulbs. Much like coal, the economics of incandescent bulbs are no longer making sense when compared to it's competitors.

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LJS9502_basic

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#2 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167854 Posts

He's the worst president ever. No debate on that.

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Horgen

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#3 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121542 Posts

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

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Serraph105

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#4 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 34180 Posts

@horgen said:

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

Apparently so.

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mattbbpl

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#5 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 17622 Posts

It's a cultural thing, just like the people who intentionally make their trucks belch out exhaust as dirtily as possible. It's stupid, yes, but they get to own the libs.

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Serraph105

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#6 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 34180 Posts
@mattbbpl said:

It's a cultural thing, just like the people who intentionally make their trucks belch out exhaust as dirtily as possible. It's stupid, yes, but they get to own the libs.

Ah yes, the "culture" of pissing other people off and generally being shitty human beings.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that people are basing their lives around finding new and exciting ways to show animosity towards their neighbors. What a great way to live.

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R-Gamer

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#7  Edited By R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1068 Posts

I'm a big fan of LED they are bright and last forever.

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Horgen

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#8 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121542 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@horgen said:

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

Apparently so.

I thought they had better things to spend their time on...

Anyhow if you live in a cold climate, the extra heat from those bulbs do add up. I got one high wattage bulb, like 230W. It does generate a lot of heat which is welcome in the winter. But still...

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Jacanuk

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#9 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@horgen said:

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

You mean this is something any administration has spent time on. And also this is something that needed to be posted here in PG?

TDS in full swing.

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LeicaM6

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#10 LeicaM6
Member since 2019 • 235 Posts

It is very sad that the US government has totally abandoned anything resembling leadership in the realm of climate change yet again. The Bush years were bad but even that is nothing compared to the Trump administration’s blatant disregard for the climate and the future of life on earth. Even by 2020 on the off chance Trump loses in the election, it will be too late (if it isn’t already) for any Democrat to rebuild confidence in the US government. This extends to other areas of government as well not just the fight against climate change.

They’ve left a huge empty hole that will no doubt be filled by someone like China or the EU.

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comp_atkins

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#11 comp_atkins
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@mattbbpl said:

It's a cultural thing, just like the people who intentionally make their trucks belch out exhaust as dirtily as possible. It's stupid, yes, but they get to own the libs.

rolling coal.

a class act.

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Horgen

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#12 Horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

You mean this is something any administration has spent time on. And also this is something that needed to be posted here in PG?

TDS in full swing.

I wonder if LED lights would have been as well developed as they are now if the bill wasn't made in the first place. I live in a climate where this change made zero impact on the electric consumption. Despite that I say it makes more sense to make the bill in the first place than to repeal it now.

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Nuck81

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#13 Nuck81
Member since 2005 • 7858 Posts

@Jacanuk: something political in a political discussion board?

Oh the horror!!

If you don't like it, maybe you should go back where you came from

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PurpleMan5000

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#14 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 9840 Posts

This is a big win for everyone's delusional grandparents.

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plageus900

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#15 plageus900
Member since 2013 • 2774 Posts

@Jacanuk: If you pull your face out of Trump's crotch, you might make more sense.

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comp_atkins

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#16 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 35993 Posts

the tungsten filament lobby is super influential

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SUD123456

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#17 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 5392 Posts

We need to waste more energy. Yippee.

The genius is strong in this POS...err...I mean POTUS.

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Gaming-Planet

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#18 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 20054 Posts

I really enjoy energy efficiency. It helps keep my home cool.

US government is bought by corporations and it's just pathetic at this point.

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FFCYAN

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#19 FFCYAN
Member since 2005 • 4969 Posts

The main argument in favor of this is that we have government telling people what kind of light bulbs we can install in our own damn houses. Why do people insist on thinking it's okay for government to regulate everything we can and cannot do on such macro levels? I understand the "right thing to do" argument regarding environmental concerns, but the road to hell is paved on what now?...

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Neclord06

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#20 Neclord06
Member since 2016 • 14 Posts

I'm not a fan of LED. Would consider OLED or Plasma lighting or practically anything else.

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Nuck81

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#21 Nuck81
Member since 2005 • 7858 Posts

Let's roll back to lead paint and asbestos tile and insulation for homes too.

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mrbojangles25

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#23 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 44800 Posts

Why? I mean, seriously, give me a reason.

Trump apologists, what say you?

@Gaming-Planet said:

I really enjoy energy efficiency. It helps keep my home cool.

US government is bought by corporations and it's just pathetic at this point.

The whole screwed up thing is that corporations should be for efficiency (and generally are). A lot of newly-built automotive plants aim for a carbon-neutral footprint. It helps their image and while the capital costs might be larger, the long-term benefits will pay for that cost and then some.

@Serraph105 said:
@mattbbpl said:

It's a cultural thing, just like the people who intentionally make their trucks belch out exhaust as dirtily as possible. It's stupid, yes, but they get to own the libs.

Ah yes, the "culture" of pissing other people off and generally being shitty human beings.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that people are basing their lives around finding new and exciting ways to show animosity towards their neighbors. What a great way to live.

Ensuring your opponents lose and rubbing their faces in it is more important than winning with dignity, it seems.

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Horgen

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#24 Horgen  Moderator
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@neclord06 said:

I'm not a fan of LED. Would consider OLED or Plasma lighting or practically anything else.

OLED for light? I get it for TV, but not as a source of light.

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PurpleMan5000

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#25 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 9840 Posts

@FFCYAN said:

The main argument in favor of this is that we have government telling people what kind of light bulbs we can install in our own damn houses. Why do people insist on thinking it's okay for government to regulate everything we can and cannot do on such macro levels? I understand the "right thing to do" argument regarding environmental concerns, but the road to hell is paved on what now?...

They are telling companies what sort of light bulbs they can manufacture, actually. It's the same end result, but not quite the same invasion of privacy.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#26 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
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This should be an issue dealt at the state level, not the federal government. If anything, the market will be the deciding factor in this -- consumers have choice available, and with that, can see the long term benefits of LED lighting if they decide.

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#27 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11036 Posts

Obviously the market and consumers are the only vectors for change we need. Just like how they got rid of leaded gasoline!

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SUD123456

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#28 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 5392 Posts

Who needs seat belts? Why are their food regulations? Why can't we buy that magic elixir in a bottle that whitens our teeth? Bring back the exploding Ford Pinto...it's my right to get bbq'd in a collision!!!!

Wondrous genius.

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#29  Edited By SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 5392 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer: So you will make sure to let the Trump Admin know that they should f-off on this equivalent state issue then, right? The clowns in your world apparently can't make up their minds who is accountable for what.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/trump-admin-threatens-california-automakers-over-emissions-deal/

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#30 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 45434 Posts

@SUD123456: Yes, I have close contact with the White House...

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Jacanuk

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#31 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:

This is something he has his administration spending time on?

You mean this is something any administration has spent time on. And also this is something that needed to be posted here in PG?

TDS in full swing.

I wonder if LED lights would have been as well developed as they are now if the bill wasn't made in the first place. I live in a climate where this change made zero impact on the electric consumption. Despite that I say it makes more sense to make the bill in the first place than to repeal it now.

No one can be sure of that, would we still be at the old bulbs or would we be a new more useful LED´s

But if we go by normal market forces, then the answer would be clear as day a resounding yes, we would.

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#32 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

This should be an issue dealt at the state level, not the federal government. If anything, the market will be the deciding factor in this -- consumers have choice available, and with that, can see the long term benefits of LED lighting if they decide.

Spot on here.

State-level not federal.

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#33 Horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk said:

No one can be sure of that, would we still be at the old bulbs or would we be a new more useful LED´s

But if we go by normal market forces, then the answer would be clear as day a resounding yes, we would.

Why? I mean, the price difference between LED lights and normal is significant. As in it would take me years to save the extra cost up front in lower electricity bills.

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#34 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:

No one can be sure of that, would we still be at the old bulbs or would we be a new more useful LED´s

But if we go by normal market forces, then the answer would be clear as day a resounding yes, we would.

Why? I mean, the price difference between LED lights and normal is significant. As in it would take me years to save the extra cost up front in lower electricity bills.

Sure, at the upfront market level it may seem higher. but let´s look at the facts here.

Incandescent LED
Watts used60W10W
No. of bulbs needed for 25,000 hours of use211
Total purchase price of bulbs over 23 years$21$8
Total cost of electricity used (25,000 hours at $0.12 per kWh)$180$30

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Horgen

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#35 Horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk said:

Sure, at the upfront market level it may seem higher. but let´s look at the facts here.

IncandescentLED
Watts used60W10W
No. of bulbs needed for 25,000 hours of use211
Total purchase price of bulbs over 23 years$21$8
Total cost of electricity used (25,000 hours at $0.12 per kWh)$180$30

Wow, the differences here are big between countries. I could buy 10 normal ones for the price of 1 LED when shops had both options here. And the heat from incandescent means less heat from other heating sources (which also are powered by electricity). Something to consider in cold countries.

Note that I don't want incandescent bulbs to return. LED lights have allowed for bright battery powered lights which I do make use of every morning.

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Jacanuk

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#36 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:

Sure, at the upfront market level it may seem higher. but let´s look at the facts here.

IncandescentLED
Watts used60W10W
No. of bulbs needed for 25,000 hours of use211
Total purchase price of bulbs over 23 years$21$8
Total cost of electricity used (25,000 hours at $0.12 per kWh)$180$30

Wow, the differences here are big between countries. I could buy 10 normal ones for the price of 1 LED when shops had both options here. And the heat from incandescent means less heat from other heating sources (which also are powered by electricity). Something to consider in cold countries.

Note that I don't want incandescent bulbs to return. LED lights have allowed for bright battery powered lights which I do make use of every morning.

Ahh, wonder if the cost is different because of extra tax in Norway or because of your deal with the EU?

But you are right about the heat,

And ya I also don´t want the incandescent back, they cost around 10times as much as the newer option so it would be crazy having that.

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Horgen

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#37 Horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk said:

Ahh, wonder if the cost is different because of extra tax in Norway or because of your deal with the EU?

But you are right about the heat,

And ya I also don´t want the incandescent back, they cost around 10times as much as the newer option so it would be crazy having that.

I guess shipping costs and profits differ on them. Prices across borders doesn't make sense. Translating the Norwegian retail price for iPhone 11 says it is an 1250$ phone, not 999$ as the US price is. There is no tax that explains the difference.

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Jacanuk

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#38 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@horgen said:
@Jacanuk said:

Ahh, wonder if the cost is different because of extra tax in Norway or because of your deal with the EU?

But you are right about the heat,

And ya I also don´t want the incandescent back, they cost around 10times as much as the newer option so it would be crazy having that.

I guess shipping costs and profits differ on them. Prices across borders doesn't make sense. Translating the Norwegian retail price for iPhone 11 says it is an 1250$ phone, not 999$ as the US price is. There is no tax that explains the difference.

Nope, it´s local price setting i guess.

The company looks at what it´s able to charge locally.

It´s the same with digital games,

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LJS9502_basic

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#39 LJS9502_basic
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@horgen said:

I guess shipping costs and profits differ on them. Prices across borders doesn't make sense. Translating the Norwegian retail price for iPhone 11 says it is an 1250$ phone, not 999$ as the US price is. There is no tax that explains the difference.

Too much no matter which monetary system you use.........

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SUD123456

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#40 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 5392 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@SUD123456: Yes, I have close contact with the White House...

Yes I understand that excuse, but you do have a vote.

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#41 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 35993 Posts
@neclord06 said:

I'm not a fan of LED. Would consider OLED or Plasma lighting or practically anything else.

interesting.

i have a mix of incandescent and led bulbs in my recessed kitchen lights and one cannot tell the difference visually between them. LEDs have gotten much better at matching the glow of incandescent in recent years.

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#42 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 5256 Posts

@horgen said:

I thought they had better things to spend their time on...

Anyhow if you live in a cold climate, the extra heat from those bulbs do add up. I got one high wattage bulb, like 230W. It does generate a lot of heat which is welcome in the winter. But still...

Remember that a prior administration spent time on the issue as well.

One article on nbc I read said the following: "Environmental groups argue that ending the regulations will result in higher utility bills for Americans and the production of more electricity by greenhouse-gas emitting power plants." Isn't a higher utility bill (if it did actually increase) the choice of the individual rather than environmental groups? Even their second concern is not necessarily a given.

I am a fan of LED lights because the lifespan seems tremendous and they don't get hot to the touch. The downside is the price compared with incandescent bulbs which are substantially cheaper. Some people might not have the liberty of paying 3x's as much for led bulbs no matter what the environmentalists believe. Burn a non scented candle if you need more heat.

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Serraph105

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#43 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 34180 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@horgen said:

I thought they had better things to spend their time on...

Anyhow if you live in a cold climate, the extra heat from those bulbs do add up. I got one high wattage bulb, like 230W. It does generate a lot of heat which is welcome in the winter. But still...

Remember that a prior administration spent time on the issue as well.

One article on nbc I read said the following: "Environmental groups argue that ending the regulations will result in higher utility bills for Americans and the production of more electricity by greenhouse-gas emitting power plants." Isn't a higher utility bill (if it did actually increase) the choice of the individual rather than environmental groups? Even their second concern is not necessarily a given.

I am a fan of LED lights because the lifespan seems tremendous and they don't get hot to the touch. The downside is the price compared with incandescent bulbs which are substantially cheaper. Some people might not have the liberty of paying 3x's as much for led bulbs no matter what the environmentalists believe. Burn a non scented candle if you need more heat.

The administration that signed this into law was the Bush admin. It's something of his that I support as it's a positive thing for the environment.

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#44 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121542 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@horgen said:

I thought they had better things to spend their time on...

Anyhow if you live in a cold climate, the extra heat from those bulbs do add up. I got one high wattage bulb, like 230W. It does generate a lot of heat which is welcome in the winter. But still...

Remember that a prior administration spent time on the issue as well.

One article on nbc I read said the following: "Environmental groups argue that ending the regulations will result in higher utility bills for Americans and the production of more electricity by greenhouse-gas emitting power plants." Isn't a higher utility bill (if it did actually increase) the choice of the individual rather than environmental groups? Even their second concern is not necessarily a given.

I am a fan of LED lights because the lifespan seems tremendous and they don't get hot to the touch. The downside is the price compared with incandescent bulbs which are substantially cheaper. Some people might not have the liberty of paying 3x's as much for led bulbs no matter what the environmentalists believe. Burn a non scented candle if you need more heat.

Yeah I know a previous administration spent time making this bill. Years ago that is, and these days undoing it seems more like done out of spite. Imo.

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#45 Master_Live
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#46 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 19322 Posts
@Master_Live said:

If that is the reasoning then I am at a loss for words.

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comp_atkins

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#47 comp_atkins
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@Master_Live said:

lol

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Horgen

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#48 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121542 Posts

@Master_Live: If he only reflects orange... It is perhaps because he is orange in colour?

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#49 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167854 Posts

@horgen said:

@Master_Live: If he only reflects orange... It is perhaps because he is orange in colour?

How does he explain his eyes that look like he had goggles on.

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#50 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3403 Posts

This shit is to funny lmao.