Trump admin set to label the IRGC on the FTO

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nintendoboy16

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#1 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

Vox

The Trump administration on Monday announced it had labeled the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) — Iran’s hugely influential security and military organization responsible for the protection and survival of the regime — as a “foreign terrorist organization.”

That will make it illegal for any American or person in the US to provide IRGC members “material support or resources” — a very broad definition that can mean almost anything — and anyone with connections to the group will be denied visas to visit the US or have their current ones revoked.

It’s the first time the United States has ever designated part of a foreign government in this way, and it has the potential to hurt Iran’s economy and complicate America’s Middle East policy.

In a statement, President Donald Trump said “this action sends a clear message to Tehran that its support for terrorism has serious consequences.”

This is a big deal, as the IRGC isn’t just any military organization. It has its hands deep in Iran’s economy, domestic politics, and foreign policy, aiding regimes and funding proxy groups in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and elsewhere in the Middle East. It views itself as the only organization in Iran that can truly defend the country’s Islamic system of governance, some experts say.

But some worry the move could ultimately backfire.

The complications of labeling the IRGC as terrorists

According to officials I spoke to, Iran hawks in the Trump administration argued that labeling the IRGC a terrorist organization would increase the administration’s maximum-pressure campaign on Tehran, which is aimed at curbing Iran’s activities in the region and weakening the firm grip the country’s leadership has on the reins of power.

Iran is already designed as a state sponsor of terrorism by the United States, but a State Department official I spoke to said that in recent meetings, US officials spoke openly about “really getting to” Iran’s government and “driving [it] crazy.” This move aimed to do just that.

But the Trump administration’s decision was controversial within the US government, including among some Republicans, according to multiple senior US officials and congressional aides I spoke to.

One reason they’re skeptical is that the US already has substantial sanctions on Iran and individual members of the IRGC. It’s unclear if the terrorist designation will add enough additional pressure to really make much of a difference, especially because few actually do business with the group now. “Only the incorrigibles are prepared to do so, and there aren’t even all that many of them,” Richard Nephew, a sanctions and Iran expert at Columbia University, told me.

Skeptics also worry it will complicate US policy in Iraq, where the IRGC has close ties to militias and politicians that the US also works with, and in Lebanon, where the group has close ties to Hezbollah, the terrorist organization that forms part of the government the US must talk to.

It’ll also make bringing an end to the war in Yemen that much harder, as the IRGC provides material support to the Houthi rebels. Labeling the IRGC a terrorist organization will thus make it more difficult for the US to work with the Houthis to end the conflict.

These and other concerns delayed the Trump administration’s announcement on the foreign terrorist designation, a State Department official told me, but ultimately the Iran hawks won out.

What happens next

The worry now is that the IRGC will retaliate against the roughly 5,000 US troops in Iraq and around 2,000 in Syria. Iran already threatened their safety if the group was named a terrorist organization.

Iran has already responded in kind by labeling the US military a terrorist organization, a move Tehran vowed to do.

“If the Americans take such a stubborn measure and endanger our national security we will put in place countermeasures in line with the policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran,” Maj. Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari, the IRGC chief, said on Sunday.

Put together, this is a risky move that shows just how much the Trump administration wants to counter Iran — consequences be damned.

What... the... hell? He has no idea how dangerous this sets up between the US and Iran. Gods help us all.

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mrbojangles25

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#2 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58155 Posts

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

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SUD123456

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#3 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6939 Posts

IRGC pretty much is a state funded terrorist organization, albeit fairly limited in scope.

Having said that, I am not sure it is wise to designate it as such since there doesn't seem to be much upside in doing so and there are many other issues more pressing,

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N64DD

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#4 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

Progressive? They throw gays off of the top of buildings...

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mrbojangles25

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#5  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58155 Posts

@n64dd said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

Progressive? They throw gays off of the top of buildings...

Pretty sure some hicks in the US have more or less done the same on occasion. Not going to stereotype an entire country based on the actions of a few backwards individuals.

It doesn't make it right, though, you are right.

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N64DD

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#6 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@n64dd said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

Progressive? They throw gays off of the top of buildings...

Pretty sure some hicks in the US have more or less done the same on occasion. Not going to stereotype an entire country based on the actions of a few backwards individuals.

It doesn't make it right, though, you are right.

Iran is iron clad crazy.

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Jacanuk

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#7 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

This post is pure sarcasm.

Iran a progressive country lol, not even John Steward or Oliver would go that far or even begun to claim that.

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mrbojangles25

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#8 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58155 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

This post is pure sarcasm.

Iran a progressive country lol, not even John Steward or Oliver would go that far or even begun to claim that.

Sorry, I should have put emphasis on the "relatively" and "muslim" part. Like, they "..are relatively progressive *pause* for a Muslim country"

What I am saying is that while the government and hardcore traditionalists are pretty prevalent, the people of Iran seem to be a bit more realistic and 20th century, unlike the rest of those shitholes where they're living in the dark ages. I wouldn't consider Iran as bad as, say, Afghanistan or even Pakistan. Even Iraq was on the mend, despite Saddam being in power, before the US invaded.

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Maroxad

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#9  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23806 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

If I were a politician, I would support the hell out of Iranian Millenials and Gen Z.

Iranian Youth already have a pretty secular worldview, relatively speaking. Screwing Iran over with these idiotic sanctions and labeling them as terrorists, may have done far more harm than it did good.

Edit: In civilization terms. I would be going for a cultural victory over Iran. We were already winning and now we for some idiotic reason decide to go the conquest path... *facedesk*

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mrbojangles25

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#10  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58155 Posts

@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

If I were a politician, I would support the hell out of Iranian Millenials and Gen Z.

Iranian Youth already have a pretty secular worldview, relatively speaking. Screwing Iran over with these idiotic sanctions, may have done far more harm than it did good.

Edit: In civilization terms. I would be going for a cultural victory over Iran. We were already winning and now we for some idiotic reason decide to go the conquest path... *facedesk*

That's pretty much how I feel. Progress is simply the natural way to go, regression is not; you literally have to fight against things getting better to stop it, which is exactly what Trump and the right-wing nutsos are doing.

Deep down people want to listen to the music they want to listen to, they want to play more than they want to toil, and they want to live with the people they want to live with. They generally don't really care what other people are doing as long as they don't have to hear about it like it's some virtue. Obviously not everyone feels this way, but I feel it's sort of the default settings of humanity. Golden Rule and such.

I imagine the Iranian citizens are pretty much the same way, you literally have to have a government undoing all that to make it worse, not better.

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Maroxad

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#11  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23806 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@Maroxad said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

If I were a politician, I would support the hell out of Iranian Millenials and Gen Z.

Iranian Youth already have a pretty secular worldview, relatively speaking. Screwing Iran over with these idiotic sanctions, may have done far more harm than it did good.

Edit: In civilization terms. I would be going for a cultural victory over Iran. We were already winning and now we for some idiotic reason decide to go the conquest path... *facedesk*

That's pretty much how I feel. Progress is simply the natural way to go, regression is natural; you literally have to fight against things getting better to stop it, which is exactly what Trump and the right-wing nutsos are doing.

Sadly so, I would have thought they would have more common sense. But alas here we are, Iranians would have been such a good target for several reasons,

  • They are very educated.
  • They are far more likely to have a pro-western worldview than other parts of the middle east.
  • They have had Islam shoved down their throat, all the way growing up. Far more so than other generations.

All these have made them pretty resentful towards Islam.

This warmongering may harm how Iranian youth views the west. And will only drag the US into another pointless war, that gets nothing done except undermining point 2. The US repeating the same mistakes they have done since Vietnam. Letting the older generations die off, while the younger, more pro-west take over could have given the west another ally in the middle east but... alas.

Edit: Responding to your edit. I know several Iranians I have met via Online gaming, as well as immigration. These iranians I know are pretty socially liberal. They have had Islam pushed on them so hard it made them resentful. And I can't blame them. I am very negative towards Christianity because people were pushing that on me. But how Christianity treated me is NOTHING compared to how Islam treated them. Their resentment is completely justified.

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Jacanuk

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#12 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I don't understand why we continue to alienate a relatively progressive Muslim country like Iran. I feel like they'd be a lot better than, say, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

I'm assuming because we'd prefer not to alienate Israel, which is kind of dumb.

*waits for "HE HATES JEWS!" knee-jerk reaction*

This post is pure sarcasm.

Iran a progressive country lol, not even John Steward or Oliver would go that far or even begun to claim that.

Sorry, I should have put emphasis on the "relatively" and "muslim" part. Like, they "..are relatively progressive *pause* for a Muslim country"

What I am saying is that while the government and hardcore traditionalists are pretty prevalent, the people of Iran seem to be a bit more realistic and 20th century, unlike the rest of those shitholes where they're living in the dark ages. I wouldn't consider Iran as bad as, say, Afghanistan or even Pakistan. Even Iraq was on the mend, despite Saddam being in power, before the US invaded.

Who cares that the people are "relative" moderate? they are still supporting a regime that is one of the most hardcore sharia Muslim countries in the middle east and a country that would not blink twice if they had any chance of destroying Israel or the west.

You may want to go see Stewards movie about Iran just in case you have any more doubt as to how radical Iran is.

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ronvalencia

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#13  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

Vox

What... the... hell? He has no idea how dangerous this sets up between the US and Iran. Gods help us all.

Learn history. There's nothing new here. Move along.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/03/the-surprising-roots-of-trumps-travel-ban.html

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#14 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel on numerous occasions. We’re talking their leaders saying this. What are they relatively progressive about? What is progressive about sharia?

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mrbojangles25

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#15 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58155 Posts

@Sevenizz said:

@mrbojangles25: Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel on numerous occasions. We’re talking their leaders saying this. What are they relatively progressive about? What is progressive about sharia?

Talking about the people.

Right or wrong, if their government maybe didn't feel so isolated or threatened they might act differently? After all, look at their military hardware, it's all US built; there was obviously a time where the US and Iran were getting along :P