The LDS Church reminds us of their "snowflakery" (lack of better term) on coffee, etc

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nintendoboy16

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#1 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

AP

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has issued a warning to members that coffee is prohibited no matter how fancy the name, that vaping is banned despite the alluring flavors and that marijuana is outlawed unless prescribed by “competent” doctors.

The new guidance in the August issue of a church youth magazine does not include fundamental changes to the religion’s strict health code, but the clarifications are significant and seem to reflect growing concern about young Latter-day Saints’ adherence to the rules.

The article says it aims to clear up issues that could be confusing for young people within the religion’s “Word of Wisdom,” a set of rules about what foods and drinks are good for members and what substances they should avoid.

The rules prohibit alcohol, tobacco, illegal drugs and coffee and tea. They are based on what church members believe was a revelation from God to founder Joseph Smith in 1833. The faith’s rejection of coffee has long generated curiosity and more than a few jokes, including a scene in the biting satirical Broadway musical called “The Book of Mormon” where dancing cups of coffee appear in missionary’s nightmare.

The new instructions about coffee make clear that there’s no gray area allowing coffee infused drinks and allude to the wide variety that could tempt members of the faith widely known as the Mormon church.

“The word coffee isn’t always in the name of coffee drinks. So, before you try what you think is just some new milkshake flavor, here are a couple of rules of thumb: One, if you’re in a coffee shop (or any other shop that’s well-known for its coffee), the drink you’re ordering probably has coffee in it, so either never buy drinks at coffee shops or always ask if there’s coffee in it,” the article said. “Two, drinks with names that include cafe or caffe, mocha, latte, espresso, or anything ending in -ccino usually have coffee in them and are against the Word of Wisdom.”

As coffee shops have become common in the United States, more young church members feel comfortable going to places like Starbucks and drinking iced coffee, said Patrick Mason, a church member and religious scholar who is the Arrington Chair of Mormon History and Culture at Utah State University. For past generations, just entering coffee shops was considered taboo, he said.

The guidance will dash the hopes of some members who hoped the church would loosen the rules about coffee, he said. Starbucks announced recently that it would open its first stand-alone shop in the heavily Mormon city of Provo near the church-owned Brigham Young University next year. Starbucks does offer some non-coffee drinks, including hot chocolate and lemonade.

“This is the church clearly responding to higher levels of non-compliance to the Word of Wisdom than we’ve seen in previous generations,” Mason said.

Jana Riess, a church member and author, said she was shocked to find that four in 10 active church members under age 51 had drank coffee during the previous six months in a 2016 survey she conducted for her book, “The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church.”

She also found that younger members are less concerned than older members about obeying the health code, which is one of the ways that makes the religion distinct from many other faiths.

Church leaders have occasionally issued similar clarifications based on changing social norms and eating and drinking habits, Mason said. In 2012, church leaders clarified that the health code did not prevent members from drinking caffeinated soft drinks.

Church leaders provide additional instructions as needed to help guide members about the health code designed for the “physical and spiritual benefit of God’s children,” according to a statement sent by spokesman Eric Hawkins on behalf of the church. The church declined to say why it decided to issue the new clarifications now.

Brandt Malone, a church member from Detroit who hosts the Mormon News Report podcast, said he wishes the section on coffee would have instead provided guidance to young members about how to order and behave in coffee shops, which are a common place for professional work meetings.

“Let’s teach people how to make the proper choices and think for themselves based on the construct of your religious health code,” Malone said.

Malone and Riess both praised the church stance on vaping, which laments the misconception that e-cigarettes contain only flavors.

“Most vaping pods contain nicotine, which is highly addictive, and all of them contain harmful chemicals,” the article says.

The passage about marijuana seems to underscore the faith’s desire to carve out a space to allow some members to use medical marijuana, while reiterating that recreational use is prohibited. The faith worked with Utah state legislators, many of them church members, and medical marijuana advocates to craft a medical marijuana program last year.

“Medical uses are being studied, but just like many pain medications such as opioids, marijuana is an addictive substance,” the article said. “Such habit-forming substances should be avoided except under the care of a competent physician, and then used only as prescribed.”

And this is the church that's running our state's politics...

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uninspiredcup

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#2 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 58929 Posts

I don't get the tea thing, without cream, sugar and other rubbish, tea (especially green) is good for you.

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Jacanuk

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#4 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

What on earth ??? religious people are just special snowflakes

Coffee is actually proven to be healthy also why on earth would anything in the bible even be against it considering that the Arabs was huge consumers of it.

But thank god you don´t have to be a member of that church of craziness.

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Serraph105

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#5 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

Personally I think that the idea that you should stay away from coffee is a bit dumb as it's health effects are minimal at best. It also really helps my wife from time to time, but that's a sort of special case of narcolepsy.

Being against tobacco and alcohol (despite the fact that I enjoy alcohol) makes sense from a health perspective so I can't really argue against that stance. Marijuana on the other hand is generally fine, and really helps a lot of people who are struggling with various pain so that stance doesn't make sense. Then again, hoping that religious organizations will take science into account when making decisions doesn't make a lot of sense either.

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LJS9502_basic

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#6 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178844 Posts

Why is this a big deal to you?

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#7 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36039 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

Why is this a big deal to you?

This is a question worth answering.

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#8 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58300 Posts

LDS: "we still crazy. Just wanted to reinforce that again if you forgot"
World: "OK, thanks"

@uninspiredcup said:

I don't get the tea thing, without cream, sugar and other rubbish, tea (especially green) is good for you.

It's not meant to be understood, it's religion. The only things that make sense in religion are also either general instinct or common knowledge.

I try to ignore it most of the time, but I can't help but imagine where we might be without it. Computers invented 500 years ago? Powered flight 400 years ago? Mars colonized 150 years ago? It's not hyperbole to say that religion has suppressed, inhibited, and otherwise halted humankind's progress for centuries.

It just does not make sense.

Anyway, it's hot as hell and I am crabby, and this felt good to say.

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mattbbpl

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#9 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23032 Posts

More power to them, as long as they're not trying to legislate it.

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nintendoboy16

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#10 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts
@Serraph105 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Why is this a big deal to you?

This is a question worth answering.

I live in a state where they run our government.

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mattbbpl

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#11 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23032 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:
@Serraph105 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Why is this a big deal to you?

This is a question worth answering.

I live in a state where they run our government.

Are they using the government to implement this by law or otherwise effect you?

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nintendoboy16

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#12 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts

@mattbbpl: They've pretty much gone against the people's vote in regards to weed and recently stuck to their guns on alcohol levels.

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#13 mattbbpl
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@nintendoboy16 said:

@mattbbpl: They've pretty much gone against the people's vote in regards to weed and recently stuck to their guns on alcohol levels.

The weed thing is like 80% of the states right now, so it's hard to condemn the LDS for that, but the alcohol levels could be interesting. What does that entail?

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#14 nintendoboy16
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@mattbbpl said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@mattbbpl: They've pretty much gone against the people's vote in regards to weed and recently stuck to their guns on alcohol levels.

The weed thing is like 80% of the states right now, so it's hard to condemn the LDS for that, but the alcohol levels could be interesting. What does that entail?

Here's an NPR piece on it from last year.

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#15 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

Religious zealots aren't really snowflakes. I'd say more uptight. Regardless I never liked coffee. Always thought it was disgusting and it ruins your teeth.

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mattbbpl

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#16 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23032 Posts

@nintendoboy16: I see the connection, for sure. It's not something I'd personally be up in arms over, but it wouldn't effect me much, either.

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#17 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mattbbpl said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@mattbbpl: They've pretty much gone against the people's vote in regards to weed and recently stuck to their guns on alcohol levels.

The weed thing is like 80% of the states right now, so it's hard to condemn the LDS for that, but the alcohol levels could be interesting. What does that entail?

Here's an NPR piece on it from last year.

Do you see this as a problem? because I am not sure how anyone sane can be against strict driving under the influence, limits and laws.

If you drink/smoke/use any drug and go driving you should be barred for life-.

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horgen

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#18 horgen  Moderator
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@Jacanuk said:

Do you see this as a problem? because I am not sure how anyone sane can be against strict driving under the influence, limits and laws.

If you drink/smoke/use any drug and go driving you should be barred for life-.

0.05% is still high compared to many other countries. Here it is 0.02, other countries in Europe has zero tolerance.

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#19  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178844 Posts

@nintendoboy16: Really don't think people should drink and drive so I don't see the outrage over safer roads. People can have all the vices they want but they shouldn't damage others. As to the other items it's choice for those to follow or not follow that particular religion. They aren't forcing you to do so.

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Solaryellow

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#20 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 7034 Posts

Is LDS different than FLDS?

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#21 PimpHand_Gamer
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@r-gamer said:

Religious zealots aren't really snowflakes. I'd say more uptight. Regardless I never liked coffee. Always thought it was disgusting and it ruins your teeth.

It's often an acquired taste. I didn't used to like either but my wife's g/f got her onto it then before I knew it we always had it around the house so after I drank a few cups over the course of a couple weeks I gradually drank it more often until I realized that I like it. I used to take it with creap but now I love the taste of coffee and can do it without creamer.

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#22 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts

My grandparents were Mormons, and they were the greatest consumers of coffee I ever knew. Not sure why the LDS thinks Mormons shouldn't drink it, even with tea. Their stance on marijuana and vaping is more reasonable, though.

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#23 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

I would never give up coffee, mormans are wierd

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nintendoboy16

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#24 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41527 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:

@nintendoboy16: Really don't think people should drink and drive so I don't see the outrage over safer roads. People can have all the vices they want but they shouldn't damage others. As to the other items it's choice for those to follow or not follow that particular religion. They aren't forcing you to do so.

So, do you believe having more options in alcohol sales for the population is bad? People get out of the state just to get better booze. Drinking and driving is something no one should do REGARDLESS of regulations, which is common sense (go to a bar, but call a taxi, or have a designated driver). Hell, a local Fox affiliate (not associated with Fox News) that police don't care anyway and said that.

Even if you aren't a member of the church (I'm not, but I got family who is), they still find a way to creep their influence as high as Capitol Hill (try as SLC voters might vote against them).

I hate to use this excuse (like "bothsidesism"), but you REALLY need to live here to see their BS. They've intervened on so many other issues besides these, like our anti-gerrymandering vote and hell, have sometimes snuck out of state (California; Proposition 8).

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#25 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

I wonder how long a thread like this would be left open if, instead of poking fun at the mormons, it was poking fun at the followers of muhammad?

Who here wants to pretend that a thread titled "Islam reminds of us their snowflakery on bacon, women's bare heads, etc.", would be left open, and even have a mod contributing?

As for the subject of the thread: Leave the mormons alone. If you have a big hard-on for the way they live, don't live in Utah. Mormons are, in general, some of the most decent, helpful, self-reliant, law-abiding people you will ever encounter.

No, I'm not a mormon. I'm not even a christian.

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horgen

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#26  Edited By horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127503 Posts

@comeonman: My experience is that western society is usually more civilized and nuanced when it comes to discussing Christianity compared to Islam.

Edit: You're welcome to discuss Islam in a topic if you want, but unless it is how it is tied to politics, it will go in normal off topic, not political gamers.

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#27 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

@horgen:

So, how is this thread tied to politics?

The linked material is all about the church's guidance to its members.

The TC only offers his whining that this church runs the state's politics, but no proof that any of the prohibitions spoken of in the article, are prohibited by law to anyone in Utah.

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#28 horgen  Moderator
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@comeonman said:

@horgen:

So, how is this thread tied to politics?

The linked material is all about the church's guidance to its members.

The TC only offers his whining that this church runs the state's politics, but no proof that any of the prohibitions spoken of in the article, are prohibited by law to anyone in Utah.

The alcohol limit for driving is one example.

Here is another

The passage about marijuana seems to underscore the faith’s desire to carve out a space to allow some members to use medical marijuana, while reiterating that recreational use is prohibited. The faith worked with Utah state legislators, many of them church members, and medical marijuana advocates to craft a medical marijuana program last year.

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#29 deactivated-610a70a317506
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@horgen:

We all know the mormon church has a very heavy influence in the politics of the state of Utah. But any honest reading of the OP has to conclude the TC's purpose for the thread is to ridicule the mormons for their beliefs, not to spur an intelligent conversation or debate about the efficacy of the church's influence on the state's politics.

As for your 2 examples:

So blood-alcohol limits prohibited while driving, and legalizing medical marijuana are examples of Mormon snow-flakery ??

Surely you gest.

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horgen

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#30  Edited By horgen  Moderator
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@comeonman said:

@horgen:

We all know the mormon church has a very heavy influence in the politics of the state of Utah. But any honest reading of the OP has to conclude the TC's purpose for the thread is to ridicule the mormons for their beliefs, not to spur an intelligent conversation or debate about the efficacy of the church's influence on the state's politics.

As for your 2 examples:

So blood-alcohol limits prohibited while driving, and legalizing medical marijuana are examples of Mormon snow-flakery ??

Surely you gest.

Coffey would be one considered snowflakes, those two would be examples of how they affect politics.

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LJS9502_basic

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#31 LJS9502_basic
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@horgen said:
@comeonman said:

@horgen:

We all know the mormon church has a very heavy influence in the politics of the state of Utah. But any honest reading of the OP has to conclude the TC's purpose for the thread is to ridicule the mormons for their beliefs, not to spur an intelligent conversation or debate about the efficacy of the church's influence on the state's politics.

As for your 2 examples:

So blood-alcohol limits prohibited while driving, and legalizing medical marijuana are examples of Mormon snow-flakery ??

Surely you gest.

Coffey would be one considered snowflakes, those two would be examples of how they affect politics.

I don't think coffee is going to be banned.

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deactivated-5e9044657a310

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#32 deactivated-5e9044657a310
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@JustPlainLucas: it's the caffeine. They aren't supposed to drink caffeinated soda either.

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horgen

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#33 horgen  Moderator
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@Nuck81 said:

@JustPlainLucas: it's the caffeine. They aren't supposed to drink caffeinated soda either.

Romney was caught drinking coke and that was ok.

@LJS9502_basic said:

I don't think coffee is going to be banned.

Me neither.

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#34 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 7034 Posts

@comeonman said:

I wonder how long a thread like this would be left open if, instead of poking fun at the mormons, it was poking fun at the followers of muhammad?

Who here wants to pretend that a thread titled "Islam reminds of us their snowflakery on bacon, women's bare heads, etc.", would be left open, and even have a mod contributing?


What you point out is the sad part. Certain groups are protected to the point where you can't say much about them w/o yourself being attacked or labeled. Other groups can be punching bags all day long and nothing happens. The only way a line can be crossed is if you discuss the protected ones outside of sheer positivity.

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#35 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

@Solaryellow said:
@comeonman said:

I wonder how long a thread like this would be left open if, instead of poking fun at the mormons, it was poking fun at the followers of muhammad?

Who here wants to pretend that a thread titled "Islam reminds of us their snowflakery on bacon, women's bare heads, etc.", would be left open, and even have a mod contributing?

What you point out is the sad part. Certain groups are protected to the point where you can't say much about them w/o yourself being attacked or labeled. Other groups can be punching bags all day long and nothing happens. The only way a line can be crossed is if you discuss the protected ones outside of sheer positivity.

No No No. I was all wrong. This is a serious political thread to discuss if the Mormon church is going to ban coffee in Utah *sarcasm* *rolls eyes*

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#36 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts

An LSD church says you can't have coffee. Hypocritical much?