The Grenfell Tower fire caused by Neoliberalism

Title says it all.

No one is likely to watch the video, so chances are that most will not realize that Neoliberalism has nothing to do with Liberalism, and is actually the goofy conservative policy of rampant deregulation and "small government".

Oh yeah, Neoliberalism is to blame. Never mind that official inquiry is still ongoing. Yup, those investigators can close this case right now; it's Neoliberalism, and let's not apportion any possible blame to the austerity cuts, the idiots who thought using the same cladding that caused a similar fire in Melbourne was a good idea, another idiot who spent millions renovating the tower but forgot to spend a few hundred thousand quid on a sprinkler system, or the brain-dead Tory-run Kensington borough council who are responsible for the area's social housing and the emergency response, who have been so embarrassingly incompetent the government of both the city and the UK had to shove them aside and take over. They can all go Scot-free.

I normally don't reply to threads like this because I think it's a waste of my time. But from my past interactions with you, you seem to be relatively more reasonable than certain other people who vomit threads of this ilk in this forum, so I'm making this one exception.

Or you know, it was due to a large abundance of hydrocarbon paneling combined with open flames.

The authorities had a choice to use fireproof cladding or flammable cladding. They chose the slightly cheaper flammable cladding, just to save a small percentage of money. Talk about being cheap. But with the excessive austerity of the Tory government, it's no surprise the council went cheap with the cost-cutting.

2017 has been a terrible year for the UK, what with four terror attacks. But the Greenfell Tower fire has been the deadliest tragedy of all, killing more people (in the most horrific way possible, burnt alive) than the four terror attacks combined. Simply because the authorities went cheap and couldn't be bothered spend a little more money on fireproof cladding. This is blatant corruption. The Tory government has a lot to answer for.

Why must we always look to blame the "other", in regards to tragedies. Polarization is the cancer killing politics.

Hydrocarbon paneling is to blame here.

Who exactly is the "other" in this situation? A political philosophy is an abstract idea, it is not a human person. If you are talking about politicians who are neoliberals well, so bloody what? Call a spade a spade.

The real "cancer killing politics" are corrupt politicians and incompetent officials not the ones who call them out on it. Did we really get so soft that we are afraid of hurting the feelings of people who are elected and fail miserably to do their job? Give me a break, it's this type of intellectual coddling that is the real issue in politics.

I couldn't watch more than a few minutes of that video, but I don't see why attributing the effects of policy to said policy should be shied away from. If anything, it more clearly defines the trade-offs we make for policies.

Maybe we think causing millions of people to lose health coverage is worth a 4% marginal tax cut. Perhaps we agree that curbing the effects of climate change aren't worth the inconveniences associated with doing so. And Perhaps we agree that these people's lives weren't worth the money saved by the regulations that were cut and the lower cost of materials.

But if we can't discuss the effects of policy, we can't evaluate the costs and benefits of these proposals.

The other in this situation would be the conservatives, that are being villified by Jimmy Dore.

Yes, crony capitalism escalated to this rather unfortunate situation. But instead of looking for future solutions, the left and right enter their little pissing content again. Pissing on eachother rather than looking at this situation with any level of nuance and develop real solutions. Not to mention this whole, I must be the opposite of what those other guys want mentality.

And no, this is not about protecting the other. My point is to argue against vultures and ideologues who take advantage of the spectacle of real world events to push their agenda. Vultures like Jimmy Dore.

Neither could I. The problem I had is not with him discussing the effects of policy but rather the blame game going around. It is just childish.

The conservatives have vilified themselves with their dopey gutting of protections for the sake of money. Time to accept reality.

It is fair game to blame the ones responsible for it. People DIED because of the policies of the local Tory government and the federal Tories. It does a disservice to those who lost their lives to forget who did this to them. One can definitely can do this while at the same time developing a solution so it never happens again. As well as, your appeal to the middle shtick is tiresome and intellectually bankrupt.

Just want to make it clear I didn't watch a second of that guy's video lol.

@Maroxad: At this point, at least in the states, I think it's clear that the party is not interested in finding sensible policy. It's engaged in an ideological march upon which I doubt it will ever find a destination it's satisfied with.

Lots of good points brought up in this thread. Good discussion, Love it.

Regardless of where we stand on the political spectrum, the victims, survivors and relatives affected by the Grenfell Tower fire deserve justice. Whoever was responsible for this disaster should be held accountable, and brought to justice for their gross negligence. The victims, survivors, relatives and locals have every right to blame and be angry at the Conservatives, as they were the ones in power, both on a national UK level and local Kensington level. There is no excuse for them to use flammable cladding (which should be illegal), when so many lives could've been saved by simply spending a small percentage more on fireproof cladding. Tory austerity and gross negligence has killed countless lives (possibly more than a hundred perished) in this 9/11-like disaster.

You are so full of crap.

This guy sounds like Infowars on the Left.

I think it was caused by a horde of gerbils doused in gasoline petrol (that's what it's called in England, right?) that worked their way into the vents, then like a Buddhist monk they chanted an oath in objection to the Chinese occupation of Tibet and then lit themselves alight.

Because that makes about as much sense (as the neoliberalism thing), and is a lot less insulting.

Or, you know, underground lizard people.

Yeah, I am more left leaning than most people here, but I just don't like the vulture culture coming from some. Just look at any terrorism thread where the first posts you see are people defending gun rights... Before anyone even brings the topic of guns up. I don't like it because it just comes across as insincere. Either way, it is clear you are being a LOT more sincere than Jimmy Dore in that video appeared to be.

I do agree with you that the Tories have shown gross negligence, not only here but also elsewhere. It sets a dangerous predecament going forward (they are going to continue cutting spending and regulations most likely, leading to even more tragedies). But the only reason they got into power is because people put them in power. Needless to say, I think we can both agree that hopefully in the next election the Tories lose a lot of seats and thus power. They have shown gross government incompetence in the past few years.

On a side note, did you hear about the people who lived in the tower were trying to sue the owners in the past over the use of this flammable cladding, only to recieve threats.

That's because he is.

WTF is this thread? and why is it even still open.

And the fire was caused by the city not checking up and banning dangerous cladding. .

And that video, im not even going to watch and you could wonder if it's not TS just advertising his shit youtube channel.

I think it's safe to say that it's not that last one.

Ok, just a troll then.

I'm not really familiar with Jimmy Dore, and didn't watch the video in its entirety, so can't comment on whatever his agenda may be. The only terrorist attack I can think of that comes close to what happened at Grenfell is 9/11, which is what many of the witnesses described it as. What happened at Grenfell is a disaster (or rather, manslaughter) on a scale the UK hasn't seen in decades. And the 79 death toll number being reported in the media is an under-estimate, since there are many more missing people still unaccounted for (and likely incinerated by the fire).

At this point, we can't say with absolute certainty who was directly responsible for the dangerous decision to use flammable cladding, whether it was the Conservative council, the KCTMO owners working on behalf of the council, or the Rydon corporation they outsourced the contract to, or the Harley Facades cladding company. Whoever it was, a full investigation needs to be launched, and legal action needs to be taken, and those responsible should face criminal prosecution for manslaughter. Because that's what this was, corporate manslaughter on a mass scale. The Conservative government will also need to take its share of the blame, as its excessive policies of austerity and its local council's gross negligence played their part in causing this disaster. The mainstream press (which is extremely biased towards the Conservatives) is doing a lot of damage control at the moment, trying desperately to deflect blame from the Conservative government, especially now that this disaster has caused the Conservatives to trail behind Labour in the polls for the first time in years.

The Grenfell Action Group predicted a disaster like this was waiting to happen:

KCTMO – Playing with fire! (November 2016)

"It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders."

And the legal threats they got from the Conservative council which denied there was anything wrong with the building:

Grenfell Tower blogger threatened with legal action by council after writing about safety concerns

Yeah, a lot of people who don't like his brutally honest opinions will just say he is the infowars of the left. But if you look into many of the things he says, there is far more truth in it than you think. His only agenda is finding the truth, and telling it like it is, but some people just can't handle it. He did a follow up video.

Bernie sold out.

I watched the video he talks just like Alex Jones. He talked about sprinkler systems. Sprinkler systems are installed to protect the property not people. He mentioned other things he knows nothing about. He spouts out codes being removed but never mentioned what codes.

Speaks just like alex jones? he doesn't scream about the government making frogs gay. AJ is a complete phony, Jimmy Dore isn't. And in this case, he was pointing out that the gov axed 2400 fire regulations. I think that speaks volumes. Also, Jimmy never claims to know it all, he refers to himself as a comedy club jagoff, he simply looks for the truth, reports it, and tells it like it is.

I have searched and read several articles on the fire and no where is there a mention of 2,400 fire regulations being axed. One article was from the NY times and anther one from a London news paper. I looked for fire regulations that were removed and the is no mention of such action.

He accurately described neoliberalism. If you think it means something else, then you're full of crap, which isn't surprising given your post history.

I haven't checked it yet...

Edit: The video is.. On the lower scale of OK I guess. I mostly only listened, so if there were more information in the video than audio, then I have missed some. He doesn't give any sources for his claims, requires you to check everything. 2400 "fire" regulations were cut. That's one I personally would like a source for... Or several.

Yeah, its pretty disgusting. I sincerely hope the people responsible get what they deserve (whatever is the punishment for manslaughter).

In Jimmy Dore's case it felt more like he was exploiting a tragedy to promote his agenda. Which is why I am bothered with it. Taking advantage of this situation more than anything.

Sounds like a case of you not liking the truth.

You're right, I gave him far too much credit. My bad.

Looks like it was a fridge freezer that started it, and the poor insulation didn't help.

The video the TC linked stated as much. They were being cheap and cutting corners.

Isn't that...uh....a big part of neoliberalism?

So you agree with the video, yet want the thread closed. I'm perplexed.

Try reading my actual comment and not someone else's quote of it, before a edit.

You may discover something, but then again it´s you and you love those situations where you put words into other peoples mouth.

You edited it to safe face. Don't blame me for that.

You wrote that post.

You wanted this thread closed even though you agreed with the god damn video. And It's hilarious.

Oh, thank you very much for telling me why i edited that post. While you are at it, can you tell me what i think right now.

I know debating with you is a lost cause, but could you try to read what people post and not make up stories.

And no i don't agree with the video, Not to mention that up until someone told me it was a actual video and not TS , i assumed it was a advertisement of some shitty youtube channel. Since i never watched it. I tend not to watch morons speak just because they post a youtube video.

You should. He basically said what you did.

Lmao.

That the reason is government failure to ban a dangerous substance and make sure the building is up to code with fire prevention.

Or are you just digging yourself deeper down now, since you claim two different things.

You're probably a Trumpkin, so naturally you're a little slow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

"Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism)^[1] refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faireeconomic liberalism.^[2]:7 These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.^[10]These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980."