Schools without mask mandate 3.5 times more likely to have COVID-19 outbreaks: CDC study

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Zaryia

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#1  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts

Schools without mask mandate 3.5 times more likely to have COVID-19 outbreaks: CDC study

Schools without mask mandate 3.5 times more likely to have COVID-19 outbreaks: CDC study | TheHill

A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study found that schools in two Arizona counties that didn’t require universal masking were 3.5 times more likely to endure COVID-19 outbreaks than schools with mask mandates.

Out of the 191 schools in Maricopa and Pima counties that experienced outbreaks by the end of August, 59.2 percent did not have a mask requirement, compared to 8.4 percent that required masks from the start of the school year.

Almost a third of outbreaks occurred in schools that implemented mask mandates after the school year began.

Not that this surprises anyone.

It's probably best to listen to entire fields of science and medicine over Q-Anon. Republicans are a weird bunch.

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Serraph105

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#2 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35418 Posts

But kids don't get covid! /s

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mrbojangles25

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#3 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 51756 Posts

Yeah but dude, my personal freedom and entitlement is more important than heeding common sense and caring about the greater good, so the statistics don't matter.

*Obligatory 😜so no one takes me serious

On a serious note, I don't find this surprising at all. Nor will I find the counter arguments to this fact surprising, either; no doubt people will come on and say something like "Oh well I blame _" or "Meh, kids can deal with COVID it's fine if they get it" and so on.

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sakaiXx

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#4 sakaiXx  Online
Member since 2013 • 13572 Posts

Just wear the damn thing till things get better.

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Maroxad

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#5  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18121 Posts

But kids don't die from COVID Remember 99.8% survival chance.

And if they spread COVID to me, I might as well just quaff hydrogen peroxide. That is what my Ivermectin group on Facebook has recommended to me.

/s

edit: Seriously do NOT use Hydrogen Peroxide to treat COVID. It doesnt work (COVID is a virus), and at large enough doses it cna make you sick, possibly fatally so.

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#6 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 47563 Posts

Here's the study since basic journalism remains a struggle for the hill.

I wish the CDC detailed which schools, elementary/middle/high, were associated with the "outbreaks" specifically (which the CDC defines as two or more confirmed cases).

The hospitalization/death risk to students remains astronomically low however.

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#7 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3259 Posts

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

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Eoten

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#8 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts

Still trying to push the disinformation that Covid is a reasonable risk to school age children? Instead of using percentages and multiplications of numbers that round down to zero, let's hear the actual numbers?

But, that's what you get from listening to uncredible sources like CDC, you know, the ones who changed the definition of "vaccine" just so they could call the Covid drug a vaccine.

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Eoten

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#9 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts
@Maroxad said:

But kids don't die from COVID Remember 99.8% survival chance.

And if they spread COVID to me, I might as well just quaff hydrogen peroxide. That is what my Ivermectin group on Facebook has recommended to me.

/s

edit: Seriously do NOT use Hydrogen Peroxide to treat COVID. It doesnt work (COVID is a virus), and at large enough doses it cna make you sick, possibly fatally so.

That's 0.2% of all people, the majority making up that statistic being elderly. It is significantly lower for people under 18, around a 99.998% chance of survival. But you won't be hearing the CDC admit to that. The fact CDC is even trying to use children to create an emotional overreaction that the science and facts do not agree with, that alone loses them a significant amount of credibility on the issue. This is about politics, not public health. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

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LJS9502_basic

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#10 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174321 Posts
@JimB said:

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

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#11 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 125799 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

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Zaryia

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#12  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

The hospitalization/death risk to students remains astronomically low however.

But I'd rather it be even lower, as this data shows masks help do. Less people suffering is always a good thing, in my opinion and that of the medical community (hence major groups recommending masks for schools and teachers). The benefits still outweigh these low risks going by most studies. And lets not forget long term symptoms of even those who do not die.

@eoten said:

Still trying to push the disinformation that Covid

But, that's what you get from listening to uncredible sources like CDC, you know, the ones who changed the definition of "vaccine" just so they could call the Covid drug a vaccine.

These are interesting Q-Anon conspiracy theories, but I will listen to the peer reviewed data and expert instead.

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

Yeah the studies show mask benefits outweigh the risks.

Why wouldn't someone want less kids sick and dead. Covid has long term symptoms even if they recover. Even if it's a small number, why not have less? And that's not even taking into account Teachers/Parents catching it from them.

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Zaryia

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#13  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@eoten said:
@Maroxad said:

That's 0.2% of all people, the majority making up that statistic being elderly. It is significantly lower for people under 18, around a 99.998% chance of survival.

@eoten said:

Instead of using percentages and multiplications of numbers that round down to zero, let's hear the actual numbers?

Sure. To put these numbers you are throwing around into perspective, we are at 2,000 Average Daily deaths this week.

I don't know why anyone but a demented psychopath wouldn't want this number to be lower. Masks and Vaccines lower this number. The vaccine saved over 100,000 lives (estimated, likely higher) so far. Including giving these to people not at risk, due to circulation. So why the hell not? Why not make it a lower deaths per day?

Help me, and every major health group, understand why this number shouldn't be made lower. Let me know why you aren't objectively wrong. Lets hear it.

@eoten said:

This is about politics, not public health.

Mostly the far right are being political in regards to this topic. It shouldn't even belong in politics section. We should listen to the health experts and studies. It's so simple.

Both masks and vaccines for Covid-19 are estimated to have saved hundreds of thousands of lives according to studies. Your incapability to refute said studies shows me you are and always will be wrong on this fact based topic which your side turned political.

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YearoftheSnake5

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#14 YearoftheSnake5
Member since 2005 • 9554 Posts

Masks should be mandated at schools until the vaccine is ready for young children. Then make that mandatory like other vaccines. I had to get certain shots before I went to school. My son needs certain shots before he can go. That, nor masks, should be controversial.

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#15 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13078 Posts

Ah yes, the typical conservative death cult has arrived to deflect. Fly those pro-life banners high!

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Zaryia

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#16  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Ah yes, the typical conservative death cult has arrived to deflect. Fly those pro-life banners high!

The main Q-anon Covid Conspiracy theorist seems to be @eoten, who is mis-representing the same data figures in every thread. Funny part is he's getting this data from the same organizations that completely and vehemtly disagree with his fictional stance on Covid.

(This is the equivalent of getting Climate Change data from NASA to say Anthropogenic Climate Change is fake....holy shit neverminded he actually tried to do that also lol.)

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts (apnews.com)

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

But apparently spamming misleading statements on a video game forums will lower that 2,000 average daily deaths. Which would be quite a bit higher if we didn't have our current vaccination rates.

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#17 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13078 Posts

@zaryia said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Ah yes, the typical conservative death cult has arrived to deflect. Fly those pro-life banners high!

The main Q-anon Covid Conspiracy theorist seems to be @eoten, who is mis-representing the same data figures in every thread. Funny part is he's getting this data from the same organizations that completely and vehemtly disagree with his fictional stance on Covid.

(This is the equivalent of getting Climate Change data from NASA to say Anthropogenic Climate Change is fake....holy shit neverminded he actually tried to do that also lol.)

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts (apnews.com)

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

But apparently spamming misleading statements on a video game forums will lower that 2,000 average daily deaths. Which would be quite a bit higher if we didn't have our current vaccination rates.

If this is the argument that they like to make just use it in context to other news as well.

'13 marines dead in Afghanistan? Cop killed on duty? 9/11 terrorists attacks? Barely a blip on the radar, 99% chance of surviving, not a big deal!'

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#18  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@zaryia said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Ah yes, the typical conservative death cult has arrived to deflect. Fly those pro-life banners high!

The main Q-anon Covid Conspiracy theorist seems to be @eoten, who is mis-representing the same data figures in every thread. Funny part is he's getting this data from the same organizations that completely and vehemtly disagree with his fictional stance on Covid.

(This is the equivalent of getting Climate Change data from NASA to say Anthropogenic Climate Change is fake....holy shit neverminded he actually tried to do that also lol.)

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts (apnews.com)

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

But apparently spamming misleading statements on a video game forums will lower that 2,000 average daily deaths. Which would be quite a bit higher if we didn't have our current vaccination rates.

If this is the argument that they like to make just use it in context to other news as well.

'13 marines dead in Afghanistan? Cop killed on duty? 9/11 terrorists attacks? Barely a blip on the radar, 99% chance of surviving, not a big deal!'

Yeah it's a bit crazy. The current death rate is basically another 9/11 every 2 to 3 days, which no American should ever be fine with. Not even remotely. Shit even half that should be troubling. The only reason I would suspect someone being fine with that kind of death is someone with mental issues, and should honestly seek help.

And that's not even getting into the thousands getting long term symptoms each day.

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#19 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@zaryia said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Ah yes, the typical conservative death cult has arrived to deflect. Fly those pro-life banners high!

The main Q-anon Covid Conspiracy theorist seems to be @eoten, who is mis-representing the same data figures in every thread. Funny part is he's getting this data from the same organizations that completely and vehemtly disagree with his fictional stance on Covid.

(This is the equivalent of getting Climate Change data from NASA to say Anthropogenic Climate Change is fake....holy shit neverminded he actually tried to do that also lol.)

Survival rates for COVID-19 misrepresented in posts (apnews.com)

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

But apparently spamming misleading statements on a video game forums will lower that 2,000 average daily deaths. Which would be quite a bit higher if we didn't have our current vaccination rates.

If this is the argument that they like to make just use it in context to other news as well.

'13 marines dead in Afghanistan? Cop killed on duty? 9/11 terrorists attacks? Barely a blip on the radar, 99% chance of surviving, not a big deal!'

99.998% chance or so. And that's only if they actually catch it, and have a serious enough reaction to be tested for it. So in reality, significantly better. You pretending this is some big number and a serious concern to justify screaming that the sky is falling isn't even an argument, just an unfunny joke.

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#20  Edited By Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts
@zaryia said:
@eoten said:
@Maroxad said:

That's 0.2% of all people, the majority making up that statistic being elderly. It is significantly lower for people under 18, around a 99.998% chance of survival.

@eoten said:

Instead of using percentages and multiplications of numbers that round down to zero, let's hear the actual numbers?

Sure. To put these numbers you are throwing around into perspective, we are at 2,000 Average Daily deaths this week.

I don't know why anyone but a demented psychopath wouldn't want this number to be lower. Masks and Vaccines lower this number. The vaccine saved over 100,000 lives (estimated, likely higher) so far. Including giving these to people not at risk, due to circulation. So why the hell not? Why not make it a lower deaths per day?

Help me, and every major health group, understand why this number shouldn't be made lower. Let me know why you aren't objectively wrong. Lets hear it.

@eoten said:

This is about politics, not public health.

Mostly the far right are being political in regards to this topic. It shouldn't even belong in politics section. We should listen to the health experts and studies. It's so simple.

Both masks and vaccines for Covid-19 are estimated to have saved hundreds of thousands of lives according to studies. Your incapability to refute said studies shows me you are and always will be wrong on this fact based topic which your side turned political.

We're not talking about the total death toll, 95% of which are adults over 50. We're talking about children which Covid has no greater effect on than flu. The majority of teachers and staff aren't even over 50 either.

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#21 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13078 Posts

@eoten said:

99.998% chance or so. And that's only if they actually catch it, and have a serious enough reaction to be tested for it. So in reality, significantly better. You pretending this is some big number and a serious concern to justify screaming that the sky is falling isn't even an argument, just an unfunny joke.

L O L

Yea, 700k dead. More than all combined US military deaths in the last 150 years. It's OK, I expect as much from a liar such as yourself.

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#22  Edited By vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3426 Posts
@HoolaHoopMan said:

L O L

Yea, 700k dead. More than all combined US military deaths in the last 150 years. It's OK, I expect as much from a liar such as yourself.

Average age of covid deaths is 73.

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LJS9502_basic

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#23 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174321 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

L O L

Yea, 700k dead. More than all combined US military deaths in the last 150 years. It's OK, I expect as much from a liar such as yourself.

Average age of covid deaths is 73.

That doesn't mitigate the selfish are causing the deaths.

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#24 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3426 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

L O L

Yea, 700k dead. More than all combined US military deaths in the last 150 years. It's OK, I expect as much from a liar such as yourself.

Average age of covid deaths is 73.

That doesn't mitigate the selfish are causing the deaths.

Of course not. Just showing how disingenuous he was being comparing this disease to young men dying in war.

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LJS9502_basic

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#25 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174321 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

That doesn't mitigate the selfish are causing the deaths.

Of course not. Just showing how disingenuous he was being comparing this disease to young men dying in war.

Life is either valuable or it is not. Stop picking and choosing who is allowed to live. Also he was comparing deaths. Not age. But you showed us our bigotry.

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#26 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

L O L

Yea, 700k dead. More than all combined US military deaths in the last 150 years. It's OK, I expect as much from a liar such as yourself.

Average age of covid deaths is 73.

It's actually even higher. But they'll grasp at any straws to subject children to their delusional, anti science whims so they can pretend they're a part of something positive. At this point, they're just posturing.

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#27  Edited By TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@eoten: Its not and its getting lower. Why does life mean so little to you? And you crying anti science is hilarious since you have been spouting anti science BS for months.

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#28  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@eoten said:

We're not talking about the total death toll

Average daily U.S. Covid deaths cross 2,000 (cnbc.com)

2,000 daily average deathsfor the last 7 day average. Not total. Nice of you to skip that primary claim. You seem scared when you do that.

You're not answering my question. Don't you want it to be less than 2,000 Americans dying daily?

Gonna' keep skipping this?

@eoten said:

The majority of teachers and staff aren't even over 50 either.

Teachers and staff are still dying though. Why not have less deaths?

I don't get your thought process.

@eoten said:

You pretending this is some big number

How is 2,000 average daily deaths (currently) and 700,000k total deaths not a big number?

That's dumb.

@eoten said:

and a serious concern

The US and Global medical community disagrees with you, and think it is a serious concern. Only a manic would say otherwise. You lose this debate because my citation is great and vast. Yours is non existent. It's not even fair how bad you lose on every Covid topic due to that.

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Zaryia

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#30  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@eoten said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

But they'll grasp at any straws to subject children to their delusional, anti science whims

You're literally saying all studies and all experts are wrong because of Facebook posts by Q-Anon members. Don't talk about Delusional. This is as anti-science as one can get.

Your opinion is noted, but completely wrong and it lacks citation. I can cite major medical groups that recommend children's to wear masks in school and studies showing why. What do you got? Alex Jones? Tucker?

@eoten said:

they're a part of something positive

Less people getting infected and dying is positive. I'm glad to be part of it.

Not sure why you're part of the group getting people killed. Feel free to leave it and join the side of sanity and facts.

@eoten said:

At this point, they're just posturing.

At this point you're a full Q-Anon conspiracy theorist. I'll posture with scientific facts and medical experts, you keep posturing with Alex Jones.

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Zaryia

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#31  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

That doesn't mitigate the selfish are causing the deaths.

Of course not. Just showing how disingenuous he was being comparing this disease to young men dying in war.

Life is either valuable or it is not. Stop picking and choosing who is allowed to live. Also he was comparing deaths. Not age. But you showed us our bigotry.

Yeah he's just comparing numbers, I find it acceptable. I was using 9/11 deaths as a comparison, and it simply shows this should be taken seriously. Funny how vl4d will call out that as being "disingenuous" while Eoten is going full tin-foil hat and spamming lies in every Covid thread but not a peep from v4ld in that case.

Funny shit.

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#32  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18121 Posts
@eoten said:
@Maroxad said:

But kids don't die from COVID Remember 99.8% survival chance.

And if they spread COVID to me, I might as well just quaff hydrogen peroxide. That is what my Ivermectin group on Facebook has recommended to me.

/s

edit: Seriously do NOT use Hydrogen Peroxide to treat COVID. It doesnt work (COVID is a virus), and at large enough doses it cna make you sick, possibly fatally so.

That's 0.2% of all people, the majority making up that statistic being elderly. It is significantly lower for people under 18, around a 99.998% chance of survival. But you won't be hearing the CDC admit to that. The fact CDC is even trying to use children to create an emotional overreaction that the science and facts do not agree with, that alone loses them a significant amount of credibility on the issue. This is about politics, not public health. Pretending otherwise is just silly.

For starters, those numbers are wrong. The actual rate is at around 98% worldwide. 98.4% for the US.

And that would be MUCH lower if it werent for healthcare professionals overworking themselves in this pandemic. No this has always been about public health. In a lot of european nations for instance, EVERY politician is on board with this, regardless of political affiliation. However, based on your prevoius posts on this board, I would say your oppoisition to the vaccine is very likely to be rooted in politics. Werent you the one literally arguing for opposing the vaccine to stick it up to big pharma? Hmmm...

Also, I find that to be incredibly ridicilous of a position to take as well. Do you realize just how cheap vaccines are in relation to the actual treatment for COVID 19? By discouraging people from taking the vaccine, you would actually result in big pharma getting more revenue.

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#33  Edited By Planeforger
Member since 2004 • 18754 Posts

Hey all, slightly off topic, but I'm planning to travel around in space next week and I'm undecided about whether or not I need a helmet.

As far as I can tell, physicists and medical experts around the world keep saying that I'll die without a helmet. It's something to do with pressure and breathable air? I don't really understand it.

On the other hand, Eoten keeps pointing out that astronauts never die from not wearing a helmet - or if they do, it's usually from other causes (like their underlying susceptibility to the freezing cold of space). He threw around some really high survival rates from an old NASA study, and they sounded convincing.

So what should I do - should I listen to the experts whose job it is to keep people alive, or should I listen to Eoten and his cold, hard statistics?

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#34  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3259 Posts

@horgen said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

You would go to any lengths to support something even if it hurts children for a political outcome.

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Eoten

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#35 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts

@zaryia said:
@eoten said:

We're not talking about the total death toll

Average daily U.S. Covid deaths cross 2,000 (cnbc.com)

2,000 daily average deathsfor the last 7 day average. Not total. Nice of you to skip that primary claim. You seem scared when you do that.

You're not answering my question. Don't you want it to be less than 2,000 Americans dying daily?

Gonna' keep skipping this?

@eoten said:

The majority of teachers and staff aren't even over 50 either.

Teachers and staff are still dying though. Why not have less deaths?

I don't get your thought process.

@eoten said:

You pretending this is some big number

How is 2,000 average daily deaths (currently) and 700,000k total deaths not a big number?

That's dumb.

@eoten said:

and a serious concern

The US and Global medical community disagrees with you, and think it is a serious concern. Only a manic would say otherwise. You lose this debate because my citation is great and vast. Yours is non existent. It's not even fair how bad you lose on every Covid topic due to that.

Oh look, more irrelevant stats. How many of that alleged 2,000 are children again? How many are even under 50?

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JimB

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#36 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3259 Posts

@JimB said:
@horgen said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

There have been billions of dollars spent on Covid research but none on the effects the masks have on children. This is what happens when something is made political.

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

You would go to any lengths to support something even if it hurts children for a political outcome.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/8/13/22623659/requiring-kids-to-wear-masks-all-day-at-school-does-more-harm-than-good-utah

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Eoten

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#37  Edited By Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts
@JimB said:
@JimB said:
@horgen said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Masks don't harm anyone. As I recall kids willingly wear them on Halloween.

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

You would go to any lengths to support something even if it hurts children for a political outcome.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/8/13/22623659/requiring-kids-to-wear-masks-all-day-at-school-does-more-harm-than-good-utah

You're talking to people who think there have been thousands of child Covid deaths.

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Zaryia

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#38  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@eoten said:

Oh look, more irrelevant stats. How many of that alleged 2,000 are children again? How many are even under 50?

Don't play dumb. That was in response to your general misleading comments on Covid ITT, like:

@eoten said:

99.998% chance or so. And that's only if they actually catch it, and have a serious enough reaction to be tested for it. So in reality, significantly better. You pretending this is some big number and a serious concern to justify screaming that the sky is falling isn't even an argument, just an unfunny joke.

The above is objectively incorrect according to the data, studies, and experts. 2,000 Daily deaths and 700k total deaths is a big number and a serious concern. You are wrong. No ifs ands or buts. Entire fields of science > Q-Anon.

As for children,

KDHE confirms child’s death, one of 62 more COVID deaths in Kansas (ksn.com)

That's 62 too many. And that's only 1 state. This also isn't counting the long term symptoms surviving children get from Covid. That also isn't counting any spread to adults from the children. Is there a reason your non-expert recommendations are greater than that of the medical community?

I don't get it, the benefits of masks outweigh the risks. That's for all age groups. Why not just listen to the experts and medical groups instead of Tucker Carlson who has no medical degree? You are aware he knows nothing about this topic right?

Surely you have citation from experts or peer reviewed studies showing Children shouldn't wear masks. Can you link this in your next post? You lose debates often due to lack of citation. So lets hear it.

@eoten said:

alleged 2,000

Sigh. Prove it.

Average daily U.S. Covid deaths cross 2,000 (cnbc.com)

This figure pretty much shows why we still need to get a higher vaccination rate, and why people still need to wear masks when asked.

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Zaryia

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#39  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 16720 Posts
@eoten said:
@JimB said:
@JimB said:
@horgen said:

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/8/13/22623659/requiring-kids-to-wear-masks-all-day-at-school-does-more-harm-than-good-utah

You're talking to people who think there have been thousands of child Covid deaths.

That's an op-ed.

The original post uses a scientific reviewed study.

You two are walking memes. Everyone in this forum knows why you two very rarely post citation and when you do it's an Op-Ed or retracted study, because you two are typically dead wrong.

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Eoten

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#40 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 5749 Posts

@zaryia said:
@eoten said:
@JimB said:
@JimB said:
@horgen said:

They seem to harm the self esteem of many conservatives.

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/8/13/22623659/requiring-kids-to-wear-masks-all-day-at-school-does-more-harm-than-good-utah

You're talking to people who think there have been thousands of child Covid deaths.

That's an op-ed.

The original post uses a scientific reviewed study.

You two are walking memes. Everyone in this forum knows why you two very rarely post citation and when you do it's an Op-Ed or retracted study, because you two are typically dead wrong.

How many child Covid deaths do you actually think there are in the US? And none of this "one is too many" attempt to make an argument based on emotion. Tell me, how many.

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xdude85

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#41  Edited By xdude85
Member since 2006 • 6533 Posts

Eoten's whole stance is literally, "Covid isn't that bad because it literally doesn't kill EVERYONE."

Nearly 5 million people have died (possibly more), and he's creating a strawman just so he can win an argument on the internet.

The thing about Eoten, and people who are like him, is that they probably don't even believe the stupid shit they say, they just say it because they think it will give them the advantage in the argument.

The way you normally debate is, "When I'm presented with a truth, I will believe it, and will therefore defend it."

Eoten on the other hand, is operating on, "I'm defending it because I believe it, so therefore, it must be true."

This line of thinking is what happens when you spend all your free time debating and arguing with people on 4chan and Reddit.

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Ballroompirate

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#42 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26486 Posts

Ah yes lets continue to freak out about a virus that has a 98.4% survival rate

"but but the death rate is so high!!"

No it isn't, heart diseases kill more Americans than anything in a year but I won't see you wearing a mask protecting you from that Whooper or Big Mac. In fact in 2016 17.6 MILLION people died from heart diseases world wide.

Also masks don't do shit, here's a basic test you can see if masks work. Wear one, have your friend(s) fart right next you and guess what, if you can smell it that mask is not gonna help you from a virus 8+ hours a day /shock face.

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#43  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18121 Posts
@Ballroompirate said:

Ah yes lets continue to freak out about a virus that has a 98.4% survival rate

"but but the death rate is so high!!"

No it isn't, heart diseases kill more Americans than anything in a year but I won't see you wearing a mask protecting you from that Whooper or Big Mac. In fact in 2016 17.6 MILLION people died from heart diseases world wide.

Also masks don't do shit, here's a basic test you can see if masks work. Wear one, have your friend(s) fart right next you and guess what, if you can smell it that mask is not gonna help you from a virus 8+ hours a day /shock face.

It doesnt have to be the biggest killer to still be a serious threat. The 2000 daily deaths are for most of the part, completely avoidable. Not to mention, viruses spread and mutate. The reason COVID is so bad in the first place is because of anti-vaxxers and maskers. That 98.4% survival rate still means that 1.6% die. That is a LOT of people.

Obesity and heart disease is an issue too, and I have proposed solutions for that as well but those are for another topic.

Mask seem to have quite the effect though, your ridicilous dad joke does not disprove actual scientific data

Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission. The study looked at the reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Beijing households by face mask use (10). It found that face masks were 79% effective in preventing transmission, if they were used by all household members prior to symptoms occurring. The study did not look at the relative risk of different types of mask.

In a systematic review sponsored by the World Health Organization, Chu et al. (11) looked at physical distancing, face masks, and eye protection to prevent person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. They found that “face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection.” However, the review included only three studies of mask use outside health care settings, all of which were of SARS, not of SARS-CoV-2, one of which was incorrectly categorized (it occurred in a hospital, but during family and friend visits), and one of which found that none of the households wearing masks had any infections, but was too underpowered to draw any conclusions (12). The remaining study found the use of masks was strongly protective, with a risk reduction of 70% for those that always wore a mask when going out (13), but it did not look at the impact of masks on transmission from the wearer. It is not known to what degree analysis of other coronaviruses can be applied to SARS-CoV-2. None of the studies looked at the relative risks of different types of mask.

There has been one controlled trial of mask use for influenza control in the general community (14). The study looked at Australian households, was not done during a pandemic, and was done without any enforcement of compliance. It found that “in an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness.” However, the authors noted that they “found compliance to be low, but compliance is affected by perception of risk. In a pandemic, we would expect compliance to improve.” In compliant users, masks were highly effective at reducing transmission.

Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. Both the Australian influenza RCT and the Beijing households observational trial found around 80% efficacy among compliant subjects, and the one SARS household study of sufficient power found 70% efficacy for protecting the wearer. However, we do not know whether the results from influenza or SARS will correspond to results for SARS-CoV-2, and the single observational study of SARS-CoV-2 might not be replicated in other communities. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Edit: Why is it so difficult to take a 2 shots? It is far easier than all this mental gymnastics.

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#44  Edited By TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@Maroxad: You forget something, they dont care if you live or die.

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#45 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26486 Posts

@Maroxad: Someone dies from heart disease every 40 sec in the US, there's over 3,500 car crash deaths (globally) every day or over 1 million a year yet you don't see people go to extreme lengths to prevent those deaths. Also lets not even get into lung cancer deaths due to smoking.

Literally majority of these deaths from Covid are people who are 60+ years old or people who have serious health issues like auto immune disease.

Also if unless you're rocking a N95 mask you ain't protecting shit kid specially if you're wearing a surgical mask for 8+ hours a day, you do realize that not even nurses are suppose to wear them for more than an hour or two at a time till they have to change. If you ask why, it's simple with all of the dust, bacteria, germs and that poison we breath out called carbon dioxide gets stuck on that mask. Which btw for us who live in cold states during the winter I'll give you a little science test, what happens to carbon dioxide when it meets cold air. Answer is it turns into water droplets in your damn fraking mask which ruin the damn thing.

Also did you just link a study from WHO lol?, not only WHO but a study that they did in China......who already lied about their Covid infection numbers and deaths. But hey somehow ground zero only got away with 4k deaths so if you want to believe that then go ahead.

Lastly if you wanna take a drug that only took 7 months to role out and got "emergency" approval by the FDA, which btw the FDA takes on average 5 years for it to be deemed "safe" for even simple drugs. So feel free to suffer those side affects for the rest of your life. I'll stick to the 98.6% survival rate virus which ironically has a better survival rate than cancer, yet we treat covid like it's the black plague or spanish flu.

I do admit though I am getting a kick out of all these people who got the jab and are still getting covid

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#46 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 125799 Posts

Guys you didn't have to go to these lengths to prove my point.

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#47  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18121 Posts

The Car Culture Epidemic wont mutate and evolve. It it also far more costly and difficult to resolve. Often having to be done at the local level. Getting people 2 vaccine doses, is nowhere near as complex as completely redesigning our cities. And oh believe me, I want to completely rip our car culture apart. Because I have a lot to say about that. In fact, the topic of the car culture, is gaining a lot of prominence in left wing circles. But that is a red herring and has nothing to do with this topic.

The majority means not all happen. In fact there is a whole subreddit called Herman Cain Awards, full of people who didnt fear the virus and then passed away.

Cool, more genetic fallacies. It is a peer reviewed academic article. Attacking the source really only shows you ahve no way to actually refute what is in it. Do you know how the disease spreads through airborne transmissions? Because I have a feeling you don't. Because the masks people often use (at least over here), DO catch the particles, not all of them. But a 70% reduction is worth it. Especially, since if all parties use the masks it becomes multiplative.

Like I said, keep up with the mental gymnastics, to entertain the rest of us. Or don't, and save yourself the embarassment.

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#48  Edited By xdude85
Member since 2006 • 6533 Posts
@Ballroompirate said:

@Maroxad: Someone dies from heart disease every 40 sec in the US, there's over 3,500 car crash deaths (globally) every day or over 1 million a year yet you don't see people go to extreme lengths to prevent those deaths. Also lets not even get into lung cancer deaths due to smoking.

Literally majority of these deaths from Covid are people who are 60+ years old or people who have serious health issues like auto immune disease.

Also if unless you're rocking a N95 mask you ain't protecting shit kid specially if you're wearing a surgical mask for 8+ hours a day, you do realize that not even nurses are suppose to wear them for more than an hour or two at a time till they have to change. If you ask why, it's simple with all of the dust, bacteria, germs and that poison we breath out called carbon dioxide gets stuck on that mask. Which btw for us who live in cold states during the winter I'll give you a little science test, what happens to carbon dioxide when it meets cold air. Answer is it turns into water droplets in your damn fraking mask which ruin the damn thing.

Also did you just link a study from WHO lol?, not only WHO but a study that they did in China......who already lied about their Covid infection numbers and deaths. But hey somehow ground zero only got away with 4k deaths so if you want to believe that then go ahead.

Lastly if you wanna take a drug that only took 7 months to role out and got "emergency" approval by the FDA, which btw the FDA takes on average 5 years for it to be deemed "safe" for even simple drugs. So feel free to suffer those side affects for the rest of your life. I'll stick to the 98.6% survival rate virus which ironically has a better survival rate than cancer, yet we treat covid like it's the black plague or spanish flu.

I do admit though I am getting a kick out of all these people who got the jab and are still getting covid

Utterly psychotic, idiotic strawman right here. I'm sure the tens of thousands of people coughing up their lungs and dying agonizing deaths in the ICU would really like to hear your shitty take that heart disease and car crashes are more serious.

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Ballroompirate

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#49 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26486 Posts

@xdude85: Whatever you say sheep, can't have tens of thousands of bs amounts of people in your head when survival rate of the virus is 98.4%

Go back drinking your soy milk

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Ballroompirate

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#50 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26486 Posts

Damn it must suck to be in fear over nothing

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