Rural America left behind, voting against their own interests.

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joebones5000

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#1 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

It's absolutely astounding. For more than 100 years, red states have been the poorest areas with the least opportunity, particularly rural areas, areas that vote overwhelmingly Republican.

Nearly all of the post-recession growth has occurred in metropolitan areas, you know, all the "big cities" with their "liberal elites". Employment in rural areas is below what it was during the Great Bush Recession. That wonderful Trump economy doesn't seem to be doing so well for his voters.

Why bother voting Republican if all you're doing is voting for the same people with the same bad policies that keep you poor and haven't managed to effect change for more than a century? Red states are the poorest in the nation, being the largest welfare, food stamp, and medicaid recipients. If Republicans are "fiscally responsible" and their economic policies "work", why are the blue states the ones always making the gains? makes no sense. Republicans promise progress, but the data is quite clear - Democrats are the ones who actually do it.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/rural-america-distressed-communities-181618799.html

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Jacanuk

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#2  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@joebones5000:

https://www.chcf.org/publication/low-income-californians-and-health-care/

Despite its large economy, California is also the state with the highest poverty rate (19%) according to the US Census Bureau (PDF).

Good talk and good try from you Joe

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vl4d_l3nin

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#3  Edited By vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 2536 Posts

You're comparing apples and oranges. Rural living has always been poorer and harder to integrate into modern societies, in every part of the world no matter who is in charge.

West Virginia is poor because it's a mountainous region that is fairly isolated and nearly impossible to maintain a functioning infrastructure. The people of Tibet are poor for the same reasons. It has very little to do with politics.

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joebones5000

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#4 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

@joebones5000:

https://www.chcf.org/publication/low-income-californians-and-health-care/

Despite its large economy, California is also the state with the highest poverty rate (19%) according to the US Census Bureau (PDF).

Good talk and good try from you Joe

So I point out the fact that red states are the poorest in the nation and you post something about one specific state. I take it you do not realize how your response in no way invalidates the fact I posted? lol

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

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texasgoldrush

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#5 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 13367 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

@joebones5000:

https://www.chcf.org/publication/low-income-californians-and-health-care/

Despite its large economy, California is also the state with the highest poverty rate (19%) according to the US Census Bureau (PDF).

Good talk and good try from you Joe

Which has a lot of rural areas.

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vl4d_l3nin

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#6  Edited By vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 2536 Posts

@texasgoldrush: wat

Cali population is 94% urban

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Zaryia

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#7  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14153 Posts
@texasgoldrush said:
@Jacanuk said:

@joebones5000:

https://www.chcf.org/publication/low-income-californians-and-health-care/

Despite its large economy, California is also the state with the highest poverty rate (19%) according to the US Census Bureau (PDF).

Good talk and good try from you Joe

@vl4d_l3nin said:

@texasgoldrush: wat

Cali population is 94% urban

Neither of these data points refute the OP, for multiple reasons. But here is one of them:

Midterms: Poorest states have Republican legislatures, and richest have Democratic ones

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/2018/10/21/midterms-poorest-states-have-republican-legislatures/1694273002/

Blue states on average have higher income and lower poverty. Blue states also have a far higher GDP on average and use far less federal tax dollars per person on average. Blue States on average have much better Education stats and Health stats. Bringing up 1 Blue Outlier is actually quite silly when we are discussing all Red vs all Blue.

The TC is correct, these Red voters seem to vote against their self interests.

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jeezers

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#8  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

Rural america has no interest in banning thier guns

or open borders or more welfare or higher taxes

You guys act like rural america is a monolith for republicans, they are not they just on average lean conservative. Rural people on welfare are already voting Democrat. On average most red states are a 65 35. Or 60 40 split on republicans vs democrats.

Of coarse rural places have poor people on government assistance, they just dont out number the ones who arent.

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npiet1

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#9 npiet1
Member since 2018 • 3538 Posts

It's probably the same as it is here. Either there isn't any jobs and the ones that do is farm work. Then if the town has a boom like mining. The town prices all rocket up in price. So the people already living in these towns can't afford rent. That's not including that generally small towns prices for crap is expensive as well because of independent stores and if you've can't get anywhere else bad luck. Then utilities are higher because "rural".

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mattbbpl

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#10 mattbbpl  Online
Member since 2006 • 19215 Posts

Interesting article on the subject.

Economies used to equalize in the US. That is, poorer low cost and low tax areas used to see increased economic gains compared to richer high cost and high tax areas. That trend has reversed in modern times.

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Master_Live

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#11 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20421 Posts

Out of all the tropes in American politics, the "voting against their own interest" probably is the one that makes me the angriest, most frustrated, and infuriated.

There is something about the arrogance, smugness and condescension from those who use it, because you see, it isn't that certain voters have a different set of values and a different conception of what is in their best interest, oh no, you see, it is that they are just, I don't know, just too stupid or too ignorant to know what is in their best interest. But don't worry, me, enlighten man, is here to guide you since it isn't your fault and I will help you to make the correct decision.

I can't describe how steamed it makes me inside and it one of the reasons, among many others, that Trump won. Because in your eyes they might be too stupid to vote how you want them to but they are smart enough to know that you are calling them stupid.

But you do you.

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joebones5000

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#12 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@Master_Live: but it is their fault that they vote against their own interests. The problem is that they don't think critically and they allow emotion to fuel their decision making, which means they fall for nonsense like "Welfare Queens", "open borders", "tax and spend", and other right wing nonsense propaganda.

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ad1x2

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#13 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8424 Posts

You should try avoiding being too smug to realize why a Republican that has entirely different values than the most popular Democrats running will choose not to vote for them. There’s more to the conversation than the little points you posted.

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#14 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Rednecks don't want growth and change, they want the status quo. They want everything done, just like it was done 100 years ago.

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jeezers

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#15  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@foxhound_fox: what are the dems offering rednecks? Lol

I dont think the stategy of calling them uneducated racists is working.

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joebones5000

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#16  Edited By joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@jeezers: No amount of reason will ever get through to rednecks. These people don't vote based on reason. These people vote based on emotion and propaganda because they are gullible and do not think critically, thus there is no point to court their vote. They're happy loving in squallor, voting for the same Republicans who get nothing done, but promise every year to "own the libtards", all while we see massive amounts of progress for everyone else.

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warmblur

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#17  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 6328 Posts
Loading Video...

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VFighter

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#18 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 7620 Posts

@warmblur: Huh weird, you could have put Obamas picture on that meme and it would have been just as true.

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LJS9502_basic

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#19 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171648 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:

You're comparing apples and oranges. Rural living has always been poorer and harder to integrate into modern societies, in every part of the world no matter who is in charge.

West Virginia is poor because it's a mountainous region that is fairly isolated and nearly impossible to maintain a functioning infrastructure. The people of Tibet are poor for the same reasons. It has very little to do with politics.

No isolation today in the US. And yes political policies effect economic status.

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jeezers

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#20  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@joebones5000: your doing a whole lot of insulting and not explaining what dems are promising them. But that's to be expected.

The same argument is used towards places like San Fran, where thier homeless is growing and living costs are sky rocketing. Yet they consistantly vote D.

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warmblur

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#21  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 6328 Posts

@vfighter said:

@warmblur: Huh weird, you could have put Obamas picture on that meme and it would have been just as true.

Not even close Obama was far from perfect but his supporters didn't act like a cult.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#22 deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

It appears to me that some states are basically 2nd or 3rd world countries that are lucky to be within the US.

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ad1x2

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#23  Edited By ad1x2
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@joebones5000 said:

@jeezers: No amount of reason will ever get through to rednecks. These people don't vote based on reason. These people vote based on emotion and propaganda because they are gullible and do not think critically, thus there is no point to court their vote. They're happy loving in squallor, voting for the same Republicans who get nothing done, but promise every year to "own the libtards", all while we see massive amounts of progress for everyone else.

If I’m pro-gun, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to make buying a gun nearly impossible?

If I’m pro-life, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants abortion to be legal until the end of the third trimester? A pro-choice person would say the same thing about a Republican that wants to pass heartbeat bills.

If I’m happy with my current health insurance plan, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to not only take my insurance, but wants to double my taxes so I have to pay the health care of every single illegal alien that crosses the border (I’m not talking about ER visits, I’m talking about routine care)? The VA is a huge reason I’m skeptical of government-run healthcare for over 330 million people when the VA can’t even get it right for an estimated 20 million veterans.

There are many more examples besides those three that go beyond the classic “voting against their own interests line” people like to use against their political opponents.

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rmpumper

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#24 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 1194 Posts

Seeing as how the trailer park rednecks are the first to scream bloody murder as soon as anyone suggest higher taxes for billionaires, this should not surprise anyone.

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Rockman999

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#25 Rockman999
Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts

Lazy inbred welfare states. In a just world these peasants would be entitled to exactly what they contribute but we can't have white people feel like they're a burden on others so we force the hard working city folk to cough up the remainder of the balance all while these slack jawed yokels complain about the world like they're owed something.

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#26 Rockman999
Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts
@phbz said:

It appears to me that some states are basically 2nd or 3rd world countries that are lucky to be within the US.

Yeah and it makes perfect sense when you think about how MAGAs have more in common with ISIS than they do with Ronald Reagan.

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jeezers

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#27 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@Rockman999: the hard working city folk cant even help the homeless in thier own cities, rural folks dont gaf what they do in the city, leave the country folk alone and worry about your own cesspools.

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#28  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

The middle class and lower class do tend to vote for people who mostly help the upper class XD

I think it's because the upper class owns the media and it's usually an easy sell that the lower class are causing all the problems that the middle class face. Because nobody wants to be associated with the lower class. Everybody wants to be friends with the upper class. And this dream that you can go up a class if only you work hard enough, is very persistent as well despite the reality of it. I personally don't believe in that fairy tale. And I don't believe that kicking the downtrodden down is going to solve anything.

It sounds like a psychological problem where people who are looked down upon want to pretend they're not part of that group to the extend that they want to vote for people who treat their group harshly. (And I think that voting out of habit among older generations also has a lot to do with it.) Also this persistent notion of "well, we're quite rich" when they can barely pay off their debts.

For instance in my country we have social security nets and consequently we don't have as many homeless people as in the USA. They also get so little money that hardly any of the people depending on the social security net live happily, so no worries about that. They are being punished for being outcasts, or ill people, as the lower/middle class demands. However these people sometimes lie about things to get more money. Part of that is because they are treated unfairly or even as criminals at times by the government. Part of that is just them being desperate or maybe just darn evil. Either way, the politicians made a big fuss about the corruption in the lower class. And they were going to investigate. And they were going to let everybody know that they were going to investigate. There is not a newspaper you could find that didn't cover their investigation on the front page. And they upped the security with extra bureaucracy and layers and restrictions that made life even more miserable for those who had to make use of the social security nets. They spent an ungodly amount of money and people (unnecessary jobs) to do all this, and now we had to talk about the rising costs of healthcare and how there are too many elderly (who according to the people actually working in these branches did not really contribute THAT much to healthcare costs) and my oh my they would take this seriously and, and... nothing about that important report.

Nothing? Yes, we heard nothing about the report thereafter. Everybody forgot about it, because the whole media and the people went on this merry bloody witch hunt to criminalize the people in need of help. We were too busy setting quota's of how many people we would kick out of social security and how much money that would save the government. (We even have this system where they basically declare almost everyone 'able to work' to then put them in the same basket as people 'unwilling to work' so that they get paid less, not considering that a company is quite likely looking for healthy employees above employees that require 1 on 1 guidance and stuff like that...) Because what did the report say? Uh-oh. The report said there is no more fraud going on with our social security nets than anywhere else. There is a certain percentage, as we all knew, who do commit fraud. Which is always a bad thing. But it's nothing special and we're talking about a magnitude that amounts to... basically nothing. In fact, turns out that most fraud is being committed by the richest of us all. Amounts of money being misplaced that are... staggering. Well, we can't have people know about that because that's a bit of a problem when you just spent a gazillion euro's on stopping the 'enormous' problem that would somehow solve the financial struggles of the middle class. But we did talk about it. I spread the message as did other people with sad stories.

But if you ask the people in my country they are still convinced that the solution to all their problems like "the groceries are becoming so expensive" (which has basically replaced our talk about the weather) is not to stop voting for the current rightist government, but to put even more restrictions on the social security nets because we can save money on them. (The same government is also feeding them lies about how the groceries did not become more expensive. No, that's just all in their heads and in fact the groceries will become cheaper.) (That's a 10+ year running joke now.) The people obey the media and don't listen to a word of reason. Give them an easy target like the downtrodden and you get your votes. I don't know what it takes to wake the people up. It's not like the poor have their money. It's not like the ones in need of care are making food more expensive. Do you know that healthy people contribute to a better economy? Well what they did do is they made the food more expensive in exchange for doing away with all the taxations on capital. Which I believe every economist in my country thinks is a bad idea. I seriously could not find a single one who thought it was a good idea. But they are doing it anyway. And I believe every person working in health care thinks this new bureaucracy and the savings are idiotic because we now have more people going untreated causing way higher costs down the line. They do it anyway. No need to listen to anyone who knows something.

Point is: Words from people or from experts don't do enough to turn a nation. You kind of have to shove it in their face with camera footage. That seems to work much better. Documentaries, things like that. Like with the loot box thing. I've been telling people for ages how the loot box system can be used in unethical ways and people just seem to shrug it off until Jimquisition makes a video that shows companies talking about it and there you go: the very same people are now shocked. Or the Red Pill documentary. Same thing. People don't listen when you tell them sexism on either end is bad, until they personally experience it (that's a real quick wake up call) or they see a documentary like that and they're just completely shook even though I told them before. They just don't listen. I think you need it on TV. You need moving images. Or to take them there personally.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#29 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11773 Posts

Well, I can tell you that my rural farmer family members are hurting right now. They voted for a guy screwing with their bottom line (one family sells soy beans). It's always a nice conversation to ask them how they feel getting government hand outs from Trump. They know they're welfare recipients and they can't even hit back with anything else.

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#30  Edited By R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 2221 Posts

@joebones5000: Blue districts in every state have the highest crime. Why would anyone want to follow leftwing policies.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/highest-murder-rate-cities-2018

Not to mention based of current poverty measures California is the poorest state in the US.

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#31 mattbbpl  Online
Member since 2006 • 19215 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan: but that's not new. They've always been significant beneficiaries of government programs. There are now just more of them.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#32 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11773 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@HoolaHoopMan: but that's not new. They've always been significant beneficiaries of government programs. There are now just more of them.

Oh I know, it's just another sticking point to pin on them. They're a certain breed for sure. Welfare going to minorities = Bad. Welfare going to rural America = Good.

They don't even do mental gymnastics for it anymore. They simply say they're more important and deserving, 'just cause they're real 'Muricans'.

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vl4d_l3nin

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#33 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 2536 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: It is isolated in a geographical way modernization will not change. Half the state is surrounded by a massive mountain range. That has a huge impact on infrastructure.

Also, places that are landlocked will almost inevitably have less active economies than those on the coastline. That's just a fact. In California, the counties with the highest per-capita income (40k-60k) are all in the Bay area. The counties with the lowest (16K-19K) are those landlocked in the south of the state. Similar for all coastal states, which are mainly blue. The economic advantage of blue states is hardly political.

The biggest indicators for economic growth are geography and population. Public policy is a distant third, especially in a free country.

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joebones5000

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#34 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@joebones5000: Blue districts in every state have the highest crime. Why would anyone want to follow leftwing policies.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/highest-murder-rate-cities-2018

Not to mention based of current poverty measures California is the poorest state in the US.

Red states lead the nation in crime. Anyone can do a simple web search to see how wrong your statement is. Why even bother writing something so easily disproven?

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joebones5000

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#35 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@ad1x2 said:

If I’m pro-gun, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to make buying a gun nearly impossible?

If I’m pro-life, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants abortion to be legal until the end of the third trimester? A pro-choice person would say the same thing about a Republican that wants to pass heartbeat bills.

If I’m happy with my current health insurance plan, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to not only take my insurance, but wants to double my taxes so I have to pay the health care of every single illegal alien that crosses the border (I’m not talking about ER visits, I’m talking about routine care)? The VA is a huge reason I’m skeptical of government-run healthcare for over 300 million people when the VA can’t even get it right for less than ten million veterans.

There are many more examples besides those three that go beyond the classic “voting against their own interests line” people like to use against their political opponents.

No one wants to make buying a gun nearly impossible.

Abortion is already legal. States are free to regulate after viability.

No Democrat wants to take your insurance or double your taxes.

It's no wonder you believe what you believe - you are the perfect example the conservative who believes nonsense right-wing propaganda and makes emotionally charged decisions, instead of using reason.

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joebones5000

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#36  Edited By joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@jeezers said:

@joebones5000: your doing a whole lot of insulting and not explaining what dems are promising them. But that's to be expected.

The same argument is used towards places like San Fran, where thier homeless is growing and living costs are sky rocketing. Yet they consistantly vote D.

Of course I am not explaining the Democrat position. The post has nothing to do with what Democrats are offering. This post is about what republicans are promising and not delivering, as well as how gullible republican voters fall for the same crap every single election that does nothing but keep them behind the rest of the country, completely unaware of that fact.

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ad1x2

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#37  Edited By ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8424 Posts

@joebones5000 said:
@ad1x2 said:

If I’m pro-gun, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to make buying a gun nearly impossible?

If I’m pro-life, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants abortion to be legal until the end of the third trimester? A pro-choice person would say the same thing about a Republican that wants to pass heartbeat bills.

If I’m happy with my current health insurance plan, why am I going to vote for a Democrat that wants to not only take my insurance, but wants to double my taxes so I have to pay the health care of every single illegal alien that crosses the border (I’m not talking about ER visits, I’m talking about routine care)? The VA is a huge reason I’m skeptical of government-run healthcare for over 300 million people when the VA can’t even get it right for less than ten million veterans.

There are many more examples besides those three that go beyond the classic “voting against their own interests line” people like to use against their political opponents.

No one wants to make buying a gun nearly impossible.

Abortion is already legal. States are free to regulate after viability.

No Democrat wants to take your insurance or double your taxes.

It's no wonder you believe what you believe - you are the perfect example the conservative who believes nonsense right-wing propaganda and makes emotionally charged decisions, instead of using reason.

You should watch the debates and previous interviews the candidates have given. For example, Kamala Harris has said she wants to get rid of private insurance and Bernie said that taxes will increase to pay for Medicaid for All, which, if it is up to most of the candidates, will cover illegal aliens as well as those here legally or are citizens. If you’re wondering why I linked the Hollywood boycott to the abortion statement, it’s showing how liberal elites from Hollywood are trying to bully a red state into adopting their preferred policies.

You want people like me to vote Democrat in 2020? Stop throwing virtue-signaling politicians my way that are saying things like they need to make sure trans men have the right to get an abortion during debates. That isn’t a statement claiming that trans men aren’t real men, although Castro actually said trans women when he meant trans men (assigned as female at birth) in his failure to virtue signal properly. That is a statement on how saying that was an obvious attempt to virtue signal to the LGBTQ community when any reasonable person would know what was meant when the candidates said women need abortion rights, which I agree with.

I didn’t vote for Romney in 2012, so yes I am willing to vote Democrat if I see them as the better choice for my desires for that election.

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joebones5000

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#38 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@ad1x2: clearly, according to the data, everyone should be voting for Democrats.

You can come up with whatever bogus arguments you want, but none of it changes the fact that everyone does better under Democrats.

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ad1x2

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#39 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8424 Posts

@joebones5000 said:

@ad1x2: clearly, according to the data, everyone should be voting for Democrats.

You can come up with whatever bogus arguments you want, but none of it changes the fact that everyone does better under Democrats.

In other words, since I provided links showing that your statements were false, you pivoted to your original point that Republicans are voting against their interests with no consideration of how people in those rural areas have different needs than people that grow up in urban areas.

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#40 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2924 Posts

@joebones5000 said:

It's absolutely astounding. For more than 100 years, red states have been the poorest areas with the least opportunity, particularly rural areas, areas that vote overwhelmingly Republican.

Nearly all of the post-recession growth has occurred in metropolitan areas, you know, all the "big cities" with their "liberal elites". Employment in rural areas is below what it was during the Great Bush Recession. That wonderful Trump economy doesn't seem to be doing so well for his voters.

Why bother voting Republican if all you're doing is voting for the same people with the same bad policies that keep you poor and haven't managed to effect change for more than a century? Red states are the poorest in the nation, being the largest welfare, food stamp, and medicaid recipients. If Republicans are "fiscally responsible" and their economic policies "work", why are the blue states the ones always making the gains? makes no sense. Republicans promise progress, but the data is quite clear - Democrats are the ones who actually do it.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/rural-america-distressed-communities-181618799.html

Sounds like the same thing the blacks are doing voting for Democrats for the last fifty years. Keeping voting for them and your life is guaranteed to get worse.

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joebones5000

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#41 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@ad1x2 said:
@joebones5000 said:

@ad1x2: clearly, according to the data, everyone should be voting for Democrats.

You can come up with whatever bogus arguments you want, but none of it changes the fact that everyone does better under Democrats.

In other words, since I provided links showing that your statements were false, you pivoted to your original point that Republicans are voting against their interests with no consideration of how people in those rural areas have different needs than people that grow up in urban areas.

My man, you have done nothing but deflect. Nothing you have posted in any way has anything to do with the topic at hand. I and everyone else able to think critically can clearly see that posting a bunch of nonsensical propaganda articles about gun ownership, health care, and taxes has diddly squat to do with the fact that Republican voting rural America is far, far behind. I don't know what you think you "refuted" but it sure as hell isn't a refutation of the data posted in this topic. lol

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joebones5000

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#42  Edited By joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts

@JimB said:

Sounds like the same thing the blacks are doing voting for Democrats for the last fifty years. Keeping voting for them and your life is guaranteed to get worse.

lolwut? My man, no reasonable person knows WTF you're babbling on about! Seriously, what's the point of posting incorrect information that is easily disproven by a simple 30 second web search? Why do conservatives do that? Makes no sense.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/05/12/under-democratic-presidents-minorities-make-economic-gains-and-so-do-whites/

Economic outcomes clearly diverge under Democratic versus Republican presidents – especially for African Americans. As Figure 1 illustrates, Under Democratic presidents, black families’ incomes grew on average $895 dollars annually, but grew only by $142 dollars under Republicans. The black unemployment rate fell by a net 7.9 percentage points across the 26 years of Democratic leadership, but went up by a net of 13.7 points during 28 years of Republican presidencies. Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans the White House.

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joebones5000

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#43 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 3209 Posts
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: It is isolated in a geographical way modernization will not change. Half the state is surrounded by a massive mountain range. That has a huge impact on infrastructure.

Also, places that are landlocked will almost inevitably have less active economies than those on the coastline. That's just a fact. In California, the counties with the highest per-capita income (40k-60k) are all in the Bay area. The counties with the lowest (16K-19K) are those landlocked in the south of the state. Similar for all coastal states, which are mainly blue. The economic advantage of blue states is hardly political.

The biggest indicators for economic growth are geography and population. Public policy is a distant third, especially in a free country.

Oh, well there we have it. Rural areas do worse because of mountains. Dude, seriously, WTF is wrong with you? If you're not going to be serious, why even bother replying? In case you actually are this ignorant and are serious, allow me to be the first to say: LOL, STFU, and GTFO with that nonsense.

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#44 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11773 Posts

@Master_Live said:

Out of all the tropes in American politics, the "voting against their own interest" probably is the one that makes me the angriest, most frustrated, and infuriated.

There is something about the arrogance, smugness and condescension from those who use it, because you see, it isn't that certain voters have a different set of values and a different conception of what is in their best interest, oh no, you see, it is that they are just, I don't know, just too stupid or too ignorant to know what is in their best interest. But don't worry, me, enlighten man, is here to guide you since it isn't your fault and I will help you to make the correct decision.

I can't describe how steamed it makes me inside and it one of the reasons, among many others, that Trump won. Because in your eyes they might be too stupid to vote how you want them to but they are smart enough to know that you are calling them stupid.

But you do you.

I agree to a large extent. People aren't one issue voters and its insulting to assume I know what someone halfway across the country truly wants and will benefit from their positions. I can disagree with them all day but maybe they value their identity in different ways than I can imagine.

However, I will absolutely hit back and say that supply side economics and tax cuts have been sold as a cure all to the 'average Joe' when that isn't the case. There are certainly some issues where people don't understand it fundamentally (cause vs. effect) and won't benefit from its implementation in the fashion like they insist. So perhaps its better to approach the 'voting against their own best interest' at the policy and not party/candidate level.

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#45 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@joebones5000 said:
@Jacanuk said:

@joebones5000:

https://www.chcf.org/publication/low-income-californians-and-health-care/

Despite its large economy, California is also the state with the highest poverty rate (19%) according to the US Census Bureau (PDF).

Good talk and good try from you Joe

So I point out the fact that red states are the poorest in the nation and you post something about one specific state. I take it you do not realize how your response in no way invalidates the fact I posted? lol

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

So what is worst 7.5million poor in one state or 7.5 million spread over 20-30 states

Or what about a state that is supposed to be the 5th largest economy, yet they receive more federal subs than any other state in America and have more poor people than any other state.

But nice try Joe and it´s fun to play spin the facts with you.

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#46  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Master_Live said:

Out of all the tropes in American politics, the "voting against their own interest" probably is the one that makes me the angriest, most frustrated, and infuriated.

There is something about the arrogance, smugness and condescension from those who use it, because you see, it isn't that certain voters have a different set of values and a different conception of what is in their best interest, oh no, you see, it is that they are just, I don't know, just too stupid or too ignorant to know what is in their best interest. But don't worry, me, enlighten man, is here to guide you since it isn't your fault and I will help you to make the correct decision.

I can't describe how steamed it makes me inside and it one of the reasons, among many others, that Trump won. Because in your eyes they might be too stupid to vote how you want them to but they are smart enough to know that you are calling them stupid.

But you do you.

I agree to a large extent. People aren't one issue voters and its insulting to assume I know what someone halfway across the country truly wants and will benefit from their positions. I can disagree with them all day but maybe they value their identity in different ways than I can imagine.

However, I will absolutely hit back and say that supply side economics and tax cuts have been sold as a cure all to the 'average Joe' when that isn't the case. There are certainly some issues where people don't understand it fundamentally (cause vs. effect) and won't benefit from its implementation in the fashion like they insist. So perhaps its better to approach the 'voting against their own best interest' at the policy and not party/candidate level.

It's a fair point I have to be more careful with thinking that way. I can see some things that appear to be so much more important to a country than other things, but the issues I focus on are not necessarily the things that someone else focusses on. And I can be overlooking things that matter more than I presume. I never meant to sound condescending but now I fear that I may have come across that way.

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#47 Rockman999
Member since 2005 • 7507 Posts
@jeezers said:

@Rockman999: the hard working city folk cant even help the homeless in thier own cities, rural folks dont gaf what they do in the city, leave the country folk alone and worry about your own cesspools.

Then stop mooching off of us and we will. We subsidize your entire way of life. Get off your lazy inbred asses and go pick up a trade that will actually contribute to the country instead.

This is OUR country, you worthless animals are just the pests and roaches that live in between the walls scavenging for our crumbs and leaving your shit all over the place.

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#48 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@Rockman999: dont blow a gasket there bud lmao!!!!

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#49 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8424 Posts

@Rockman999 said:
@jeezers said:

@Rockman999: the hard working city folk cant even help the homeless in thier own cities, rural folks dont gaf what they do in the city, leave the country folk alone and worry about your own cesspools.

Then stop mooching off of us and we will. We subsidize your entire way of life. Get off your lazy inbred asses and go pick up a trade that will actually contribute to the country instead.

This is OUR country, you worthless animals are just the pests and roaches that live in between the walls scavenging for our crumbs and leaving your shit all over the place.

Sounds like you think food just magically appears in the supermarket...

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#50  Edited By vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 2536 Posts
@joebones5000 said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: It is isolated in a geographical way modernization will not change. Half the state is surrounded by a massive mountain range. That has a huge impact on infrastructure.

Also, places that are landlocked will almost inevitably have less active economies than those on the coastline. That's just a fact. In California, the counties with the highest per-capita income (40k-60k) are all in the Bay area. The counties with the lowest (16K-19K) are those landlocked in the south of the state. Similar for all coastal states, which are mainly blue. The economic advantage of blue states is hardly political.

The biggest indicators for economic growth are geography and population. Public policy is a distant third, especially in a free country.

Oh, well there we have it. Rural areas do worse because of mountains. Dude, seriously, WTF is wrong with you? If you're not going to be serious, why even bother replying? In case you actually are this ignorant and are serious, allow me to be the first to say: LOL, STFU, and GTFO with that nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_people

The word "Hillbilly" is derived from people who live in the mountains.

There are some exceptions, but, take a look at some of the counties within the mountain range. Outside of some tourist locations, and urban centers, they're not that great. Do some research before you own yourself.