Railways disasters, unions, and the failure of self-regulation

Regulation--which is based on force and fear--undermines the moral base of business dealings. It becomes cheaper to bribe a building inspector than to meet his standards of construction. Protection of the consumer by regulation is thus illusory - Alan Greenspan

While taken out of context and stated before these railway disasters have occurred, I thought it was a good quote to sum up what we are collectively experiencing in the US right now.

Whether it is the debacle of Southwest using ancient scheduling systems during the holidays, or the environmental disasters of toxic train derailments, I would argue that we have reached the point where we can't trust businesses to self regulate.

What say you, Political Gamers?

I'd like to offer up another quote that sums up my feelings pretty well:

Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all. -John Maynard Keynes

Seems about right.

We have pro-corporate government with Pete Buttigeg handing out gentle slaps on wrists and Joe Biden rebuffing union workers.

This corporation, Norfolk Southern, works in an industry that has made MASSIVE cuts to employment, benefits, and safety regulations while claiming the industry is dying...and yet they've made a 12 billion dollar profit. What did they do with this profit? Improve infrastructure? Pay workers better? No, they did stick buybacks. And in light of this disaster, they just increased their dividend payouts in order to incentivize investors to hold on to their shares.

Travesty.

Anyway, I recommend listening to The Problem with John Stewart podcast about this, for a quick rundown. While opinionated (as he usually is), he does get some good professionals on there and you can sift through the entertainment to get the facts (of course, you should verify with multiple sources).

Anyway, just curious how the rest of you feel about this. I'm pretty let down. Biden Admin was (and is, in many respects) doing a lot of good but this is a bit of a letdown. I had hi hopes for Mayor Pete, too, and while I imagine his hands are tied to some extent, he has to do better; this is his department, after all.

Maybe we need to make it so these companies are non-profit. You should be able to post record profits while neglecting safety, quashing unions, and worse.

Alan Greenspan's worldview was disgraced in just about the most spectacular way possible.

We've learned this lesson hundreds of times over. We will be forced to learn it hundreds more - and then hundreds more after that.

Yeah it's just sad to see us being given so many opportunities to learn and evolve and we just say "No, we're good, let's keep fucking things up".

I can't wait until the boomers are gone. I don't mean that in a malicious way, I mean my parents are boomers (well, my mom is, my dad is older) and I will be said to see many pass on, but honestly I think they're holding things up.

We know what needs to be done, we just need to be allowed to do it. Time to stop maintaining the status quo; cap salaries, take excess profits and either use them to improve things or pay workers, etc.

Capitalism and socialism don't have to be (and are not) mutually exclusive.

People at the top definitely have no work ethics.

Seems like that rail company needs a 12 billion dollar fine. Or double that.

FTFY

At least significant enough to hurt. Anything in the millions of dollars range is insufficient.

Seems like there's plenty of blame to go around for this. But the most direct culprit appears to be years of lobbying, cost cutting, and fighting regulations which most likely would have avoided this.

Fallout from Ohio train derailment: The DC blame game begins | The Independent

The Ohio train derailment was an accident waiting to happen - Vox

Removing a year of profit. Plus they should have to cover the cost of repairing this damage for years to come. With prison time for the leadership in the company.

@horgen: Yeah, full costs of cleanup/repair/restitution plus a enough of a fine for to ensure the loss of the safety guards is a net loss for them is the absolute minimum to be a deterrent.

Derailments happen. Tbh sometimes bad things happen where regulation whether federal or private can stop it.

Sometimes bad things have to happen for a specific regulation to even arise. Personally don't think this was due to negligence of any specific body

The NTSB chair addressed speculation that a rule on electronically controlled pneumatic (ECP) breaks -- if implemented -- would have prevented the train derailment, which she said was "FALSE."

"The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars," she tweeted. "This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes."

Finally, Homendy urged members of the public to let her agency lead the investigation.

"Anything else is harmful -- and adding pain to a community that’s been through enough," she tweeted. "But…if this derailment has moved you to want to become a safety investigator, we'd love to have you at the NTSB."

Earlier this week, the NTSB shared an update on its ongoing probe into the incident, saying "investigators have identified and examined the rail car that initiated the derailment."

"Surveillance video from a residence showed what appears to be a wheel bearing in the final stage of overheat failure moments before the derailment," the NTSB said in the investigative update on Tuesday. "The wheelset from the suspected railcar has been collected as evidence for metallurgical examination. The suspected overheated wheel bearing has been collected and will be examined by engineers from the NTSB Materials Laboratory in Washington, D.C."

@sargentd: This didn't have to happen and may not have if the Obama safety regulation wasn't repealed. Never go backwards, always forward.

@LJS9502_basic: don't think that would have mattered with one over heated wheel bearing

This is a cost problem. Some a-holes in the government thought it was ok to keep dangerous elements free of safety regulations and companies will do as much as possible to cut costs. If the cost of updating something is bigger than the cost of paying compensations, then things can rust until the end of time.
It is not a hard concept. Capitalism 101 asks to prioritize money over everything. Turkey's disaster during the earthquake is the same story. The president made a zone free of regulations where buildings were made and they came down instantly because, well... some of these reinforcements against catastrophes are way too big.
The problem is the money incentive. As easy as that.

@curono: I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't the result of a cost calculation. Once again a company has decided to exchange peoples' lives for a few bucks when given the chance.

Derailments do happen, but they don't have to be a colossal disaster every time.

This is gross negligence and a failing of capitalism if there ever was one. I know you are a big libertarian and believer in capitalism, but there's a limit, right? There has to be a line you don't cross, and your indifference and apathy is pretty close to that.

• 29% of railroad workers have been let go, but no improvements have been made to make things more efficient or safer. Many of these employees that were let go were skilled laborers, not just bureaucrats and office workers.
• Demands of the job are sky-high due to the shortage, with many employees in critical positions (maintenance, etc) working double shifts.
• High rate of injury and illness (due to exposure to chemicals being transported, and lax safety regulations). Add to this the lack of PTO to get better, to pursue medical care.
• There is a huge demand for technological improvements, but an unwillingness to invest in them. Why not automate the railways? We can, we should...but we don't. Autonomous trains, anyone?

It's a perfect storm of bullshit. So basically pre-COVID you have an industry showing record profits, and as with all companies they want more record profits, so they let people go to make more money. Then COVID happens and we actually need MORE people to work, but they don't hire; no, they just demand more from their current employees. Many of us can relate to this, both from COVID but also from 2008 financial crisis. So then COVID runs its paces, things don't get shipped, which puts more pressure on the crumbling workforce and infrastructure, and the end result is disaster.

It's also a huge failing of the government, too! You should love that.

All I'm saying is, maybe we put things in place where these corporations can't make record profits until shit is in order. If it means they get 8 billion in profit instead of 12, so be it.

Argument number 92348232 of why we need to get money out of politics. For starters, let's repeal Citizens United.

We are backsliding into corporate feudalism where we are going to have a rich ruling class presiding over 99.9% of the population.

@mrbojangles25: I'm sorry but I'm laughing. A wheel bearing broke and derailed a train and your blaming capitalism.... Can you just accept it's a tragedy, and accident. Why do you have to jump to the entire economic structure...

I don't understand your logic... Trains are invincible under socialism or communism?? Lol

Why was the wheel bearing not replaced last time the train was in for service/repair?

We are not saying it isn't a tragedy, and accident. However neglecting maintenance will increase the rate that these accidents happen. Neglecting maintenance is in the owners and investors best interest if the cost of the accident is less than increasing the maintenance. So accidents like these needs to hurt the company financially. And maybe not just this year, but for years to come.

As it is now, it is most likely you who will foot the bill for this cleanup through taxes.

Believe it or not, yes, these things are all connected.

Let's say a train derails and kills a bunch of people. There was an investigation, and the government made some regulations that said the owner of the train needs to do more inspections, and get better at them.

So the company, instead of hiring more people and training them and not overworking them, decides to implement a superficial inspection program where they post fancy numbers like "60-second car inspections" or "two-hour turnarounds". WOW! That looks great, good job!

Only that's not long enough or thorough enough, but the people in charge don't care because technically they are doing more inspections as requested, and the company is making record profits, and they are lobbying to hell and back to ensure workers don't have any rights or any say in policy.

So things get marginally better for the company's optics, but worse for the employees. But then ten years go by and a new president decides to repeal these new regulations that kinda-sorta-help because his daughter's friend's uncle is on the board of this company. So now not only are workers getting the shaft, but now trains and railways are less regulated.

And, well, eventually this is where we end up: with broken wheel bearings on trains hauling chemicals that should have more stringent regulations but don't because loophole.

And of course these things happen all the time, they just don't happen in rich parts of the world, they happen in rust belt towns where the entire population can be bought off and told to keep silent, because capitalism. Oh your house is worth 350k? Well not anymore because there's a toxic spill two blocks away that WE DEFINITELY DID NOT CAUSE YOU SIGNED SOMETHING REMEMBER! so we will give you 150k. GOOD LUCK!

Does the above sound far-fetched? It shouldn't; that's more or less how this played out.

We are serfs to these people. To be ground up into a paste and spackled onto all of their problems as a temp solution.

Sincerely

Comrade Chairman Bojangles

People's Socialist Party of Gamespot

This wont work and isn't good enough. You basically just typed the train derailment equivalent of "thoughts and prayers" for gun violence.

We have to see exactly what went wrong and try our best to prevent it.

Norfolk Southern also lobbied against a bill from Democratic senators Charles E. SchumerandKirsten Gillibrandof New York andChristopher S. MurphyandRichard Blumenthalof Connecticut to institute a series of rail safety reforms, including speed restrictions on trains carrying flammable materials and mandates for “oil spill response plans” for trains with hazardous substances.

However, that could change if Sen.Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Rep.Bill Johnson, R-Ohio, push legislation to change how the federal government classifies hazardous material transported by rail — something they said Thursday that they’re considering. Although the train carried materials that are linked to adverse health effects, it did not meet the federal government’s classification as a "high-hazardous material train,” meaning the company was not required to inform state officials about the chemicals these cars contained.

Sigh.........

If we had this attitude we would still be stuck under late 1800's working conditions. You know how things got better? By society actually doing something.

And in this case, it very much seems that Trump's deregulation is what caused these issues to get as bad as they did to begin with.

Attacking economic systems is a sign of our times. We're living in a time where a good portion of Americans don't believe inflation isn't real and we can just give people more money to combat rising prices. The fact that people are blaming a train accident on capitalism or regulation shouldn't be surprising.

The real story here is the endemic corruption that is so painfully obvious. Why were journalists arrested and thrown in jail? Why did the EPA and Mayor Pete do effectively nothing for three days while Norfolk Southern did unnecessary controlled burns of the chemicals? Why is the EPA working hand in glove with NS? Are there any independent investigations happening?

Massive shifting of blame is already happening. Nobody will pay, except the poor citizens around the crash site.

A water purity test was conducted that gave everything the go ahead.

By the company that owns the train.

EPA was handcuffed by Trump? Or was it another environment agency he robbed of any effective power?

Does any of this (the status of the rails) fall under infrastructure?

Technically this is the fault of NSR.

Not disagreeing with any of that, but this one derailment is not the only reason I want to discuss this. It's the other 1000+ derailments that occur each year.

Yes, that is a failure of regulation and capitalism. You don't hear about these derailments because they happen in areas people don't care about. This is a heartland issue that impacts the poorest of us, while the richest of us just sweep it under the rug.

Hell, Flynt, Michigan (separate problem, but similar causes) is still having problems with their water and we don't talk about that any more.

I'm not saying we can't be profitable, but when shit like this happens and they're making record profits, maybe it's time to ask why they're able to make record profits in light of the 1000+ derailments that occur each year, killing people, poisoning the land, and disrupting supply chains.

Yeah I thought that was shady as hell, and incredibly obvious. The sad thing is this area is too poor to probably afford a third-party testing company, so it was either the rail company or no one.

Either that or the local leadership was paid off and said "Sure, come on in, who needs impartiality!?"

Was only the results released or a full report on how it was done?

How Congressional Rail Industry Allies Helped Block Safety Regulations (theintercept.com)

Former regulators and rail workers toldThe Lever Newst hat the Norfolk Southern trains should have been designated as hazardous given the risks of carrying vinyl chloride, and that ECP would have at least reduced the damage caused by bringing the trains to halt more quickly.

Norfolk Southern also lobbied against a bill from Democratic senators Charles E. SchumerandKirsten Gillibrandof New York andChristopher S. MurphyandRichard Blumenthalof Connecticut to institute a series of rail safety reforms, including speed restrictions on trains carrying flammable materials and mandates for “oil spill response plans” for trains with hazardous substances.

oof.

Regulations would have helped. Dems are currently calling for more. Train regulatory policy is split among party lines, and guess which side has been historically against it.

Trump visits East Palestine, but Biden says the White House is engaged : NPR

In East Palestine, who 'shows up' isn't necessarily a sign of who's helping

Even if that particular rule wouldn't have prevented this, other safety measures could have, said Jennifer Homendy, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board.

"I can tell you this much: This was 100% preventable," Homendy said at a news conference this week.

Here's the most thorough explanation yet for the train derailment in East Palestine

But conservatives, who have descended on the town or called out Biden from afar for not being there in person yet, haven't offered much in the way of real solutions to prevent these kinds of disasters in the future — like any regulations they might support, which the industry has lobbied against.

"Enough with the politics," Homendy said. "I don't understand why this has gotten so political. This is a community that is suffering. This is not about politics. This is about addressing their needs, their concerns. That's what this should be about."

Agreed.

The failure of SVB (in which the bank lobbied to be exempt from Dofd Frank regulations, won, made risky bets against interest rates, and then collapsed) further highlights that relying on companies to self regulate does not work.

The boss made lots of money before selling all his shares in the company. That's all that matters. :P

@horgen: Whew, I can sleep well tonight!