Noam Chomsky - Libertarianism = Predatory Capitalism

It is so obvious that right wing Libertarianism is BAD for society, and destroys the planet, and lives. Try telling this to brain dead morons like Stefan Molyneux, Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder, Mark Dice, and other crazed right wing douche bags, and they'd give you a smug smile, and mock you, calling you a communist, but ironically, they are the true authoritarians.

We tend to agree on a lot of things. Libertarianism is not sustainable in the real world. It sounds great in an ideal world, much like communism, but we do not live in an ideal world and both are impossible.

You mean Marxism, communism is entirely possible and IMO, the direction we are headed.

I disagree, it's already been proven that communism doesn't work. Heavy regulation of the free market, and wall street. and focusing on and protecting workers, working families, the middle class, and not the rich, is the direction we are headed.

So, the problem with the argument of "____ has been proven it does not work" can be said about every single form of government. The real topic or conversation is on variations and what we will be facing, and its hard to see any other form of government properly functioning in the next 100+ years. And when i say functioning, i mean in the best interest of the majority of the people, not simply functioning. The functioning argument will be won by totalitarians every single time.

Unlike libertairanism, the only thing that really keeps Marxism or extremism communism from being a reality is needs (scarcity). Eventually our technology will be so great that those needs can be available to all. I know it sounds a bit silly but if you really want to dive into the best predictors of the future, look no further than science fiction writers. In this case, Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek.

I guess I do mean Marxism in a present day sense. I tend to consider Marx's definition of communism the real definition of communism.

Keep in mind that communism was thought up as an end game. Something after scarcity no longer mattered (probably never). It has not bee proven that communism doesn't work since we have never seen an actual communist society. Not to say that it would work, it probably still wont, but it hasnt been proven.

I agree that your opinion on the direction we are going though, however, I am skeptical we will get there without a revolution.

Its always been up for debate if Marxism and communism are the same thing. I tend to say its simply a variation, specific but a variation.

Now, what Marx described was basically starting with communism and then shifting to a system that removed the system, the structure, the government. So even by his own definition or idea, i wouldnt consider them the same.

They just opened up toll roads at a highway and the prices skyrocketed up to $30.

****.

That.

This is what I don't get. People talk about decrease infrastructure funding yet support toll roads but you're just shifting your spending to another entity except now that other entity has the ability to use and abuse your finances in the name of the "free market."

Fair enough, I consider it a change to the communist system and keeping the name but that doesn't really matter since we are both talking about the same thing in the end.

The thing i find funny is how American Libertarians oppose Marxism, but they don't quite understand that its probably the closest to their own ideology than anything else. Then again, American Libertarians have been convinced that its really all about business.

Lol true but I think that can be attributed to the amount of misinformation that is out there about it. Most of them don't understand what it is exactly, they only understand that they were told to despise it.

Right, and like i said in my edit, American libertarians has been hijacked by the right and they've replaced the citizens rights and liberties with businesses doing wtf ever they want and those two cannot co-exist.

I made a thought experiment a while back. Found Laissez Faire Libertarianism to be self defeating.

Give people too much freedom, and they will use their freedom to take away the freedom and rights of others.

these so called right wingers who spout BS about freedom and individual responsibility are just welfare leeches as much as the left are. Probably even worse, because they think they're in denial. Not to mention, alot of them are uneducated, barely passed highschool punks.

Nobody in this generation, or the past 10 generations of Americans has experienced real capitalism. Capitalism is based on free markets, and yes human greed driving innovations. But when you throw in stuff like patents and IPs, which are well meaning but utterly FLAWED, you create even bigger issues.

You should talk to the Hutterites. They've proven quite handedly that communism works. I'd totally be on board to join their community, but religion gets in the way.

Uh no. Communalism is not communism.

There is no central government and they share every single resource.

"a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state."

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/communism?s=t

Hooray, they have an attribute in common. That doesn't make them the same. My family unit is also a form of communalism.

Which one has centralized planning across numerous communes? Which one allocates resources broadly across a society? Which aggregates needs broadly across a society? Which one controls all the means of production across a society?

Or do you think the Hutterites own $300K combines because of communalism or communism. The answer is neither. They own them because of capitalism, they simply own the property in a larger collective than the family unit.

This is a far cry from all the elements necessary to operate a much larger collective at a nation level including all the means of production and all the necessary planning to allocate the means of production to meet the broad set of requirements for the society to operate.

This is exactly the same logic fault when people refer to kibbutz. They don't exist in isolation from the broader economic system so it is inherently flawed to compare them to national systems of economics/governance.

If the only attribute that mattered was local collective ownership of assets in a small scale largely agrarian commune then how do you reconcile the relative success of Hutterites with the abject failure of USSR farm collectivization? The answer is you can't because they are radically different things. Because communalism is not communism, even though they share an attribute.

I think Chomsky views any form of capitalism as predatory.

Nah, just todays version of it.