Make no mistake, its not that Biden is winning, its Trump that's losing.

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texasgoldrush

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#1  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14943 Posts

With the district polls I am seeing in swing areas in key states, Trump is toast, and Biden will have a big victory......no, really is a big Trump defeat because Trump has single handedly tanked this re-election campaign. Trump is doing so poorly that Biden's horrendous weaknesses as a candidate are mostly being rendered irrelevant.

And really, giving Biden too much credit here would lead Dems to learn the wrong things. If Biden were to face any other candidate and run the same campaign strategy, he loses. Its nearly Mondale or Dukakis level bad. Biden would never be able to win a "choice" general election, and before the coronavirus really hit, the election was shaping up to be this, instead of the "negative referendum" we got because of Trumps stupidity on the coronavirus and the BLM protests.

Biden has failed to engage young voters, Latinx voters, and even general election black voters and the DNC failed to do this as well, Biden has done nothing to try and reduce his opponents "strength" (the economy), successful strategies that Rove used to do for Bush and what Obama did successfully. Biden has been very vague on many policy matters and made gaffes regarding them (like his Green New Deal gaffe at the debate), and he is lacking in ground game (and ground game wins elections).

But Trump bailed him out. And really, credit Trump for building a large coalition of Never Trump Republicans all the way to the Squad against him. Biden didn't do that. Its Trump that is actively getting young people to support Biden (along with AOC and Sanders GOTV efforts), not Biden himself. Its Trump that turned Biden from a terrible fundraiser to a record breaking one. And its Trump that keeps media scrutiny and attention off Biden, which prevents Biden from making a litany of mistakes he would otherwise make if the spotlight is more on him. In fact, Biden's campaign isn't much in the news, because Trump's stupidity dominates. Trump's ignorance of the coronavirus, not anything Biden has done this campaign, is the reason why seniors are defecting. And Trumps horrendous handling of the BLM protests and George Floyd's killing turned the race and doubled Biden's lead, and all Biden did was stay in the basement. Trump's poor handling on the presidency has also not allowed him to define Joe Biden, and Biden catches a huge break as normally, he would easily be defined by an opponent.

Polls routinely show more people supporting Biden do so because they are voting AGAINST Trump, not FOR Biden. This contrasts with Reagan and Clinton when they unseated incumbents, as voters generally voted FOR them more than AGAINST the incumbent.

Biden is really looking like Jimmy Carter 2.0. He has the luck from his opponent. Carter's campaign in 1976 was saved by Ford's big blunder, but when he met Reagan, Carter was exposed as a very poor campaigner (along being a poor president). This can happen to Biden (if he doesn't realize his age and just serve one term). Biden is only successful because Trump.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#2  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

Biden is like a used car with the check engine light on that the dealer forced you to buy. We just ignore that in hopes it will get us to where we need to be in order to get a better one.

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#3 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

Just like it was Hilary losing not Trump wining.

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Sushiglutton

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#4 Sushiglutton
Member since 2009 • 9885 Posts

Mostly agree, think Biden would too.

He's clearly past his prime. But because of some odd dynamic in the primary Biden is the last knight standing who can slay the dragon. Given his weakness I think the careful strategy he is employing is the best one. Just let Trump hang himself.

I don't think Biden has done anything wrong really. Being more aggressive would have turned the spotlight on him and alienated some part of the electorate no matter what. I think Elizabeth Warren for example would have been able to find a way to lose to Trump. She just can't help herself.

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mrbojangles25

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#5 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58453 Posts

Nobody should feel good about this election.

Trump is terrible, and Biden is less than ideal.

@thegreatchomp said:

Biden is like a used car with the check engine light on that the dealer forced you to buy. We just ignore that in hopes it will get us to where we need to be in order to get a better one.

Perfect analogy dude.

lol "I just gotta get to work! I'm not driving across country, just needs to make it 20 miles. I can get a new car later"

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Eoten

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#7  Edited By Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8671 Posts

Yeah, all the polls that made the same predictions and had the same "leads" in 2016. Yawn. Just remember when you lose this time, it's not because the country is racist, sexist, or Russian trolls. It's because Americans just really don't like the extreme ideologies of the far left represented in this election.

Just remember, under Biden your taxes WILL go up, unless you pay none at all. Your costs of living are going to go up as well, especially the price per gallon of gasoline. And the US will be put into one, perhaps more major wars in the Middle East as Biden is 100% all for a full scale invasion of Syria. If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

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texasgoldrush

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#8 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14943 Posts

@eoten said:

Yeah, all the polls that made the same predictions and had the same "leads" in 2016. Yawn. Just remember when you lose this time, it's not because the country is racist, sexist, or Russian trolls. It's because Americans just really don't like the extreme ideologies of the far left represented in this election.

Just remember, under Biden your taxes WILL go up, unless you pay none at all. Your costs of living are going to go up as well, especially the price per gallon of gasoline. And the US will be put into one, perhaps more major wars in the Middle East as Biden is 100% all for a full scale invasion of Syria. If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

No, the district polls actually warned the Clinton campaign in 2016 and foreshadowed her loss. The same polling is showing Biden well ahead.

This isn't 2016.

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Serraph105

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#9 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36044 Posts

@eoten: stop fear mongering.

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tenaka2

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#10 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

@eoten said:

If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

So unless you vote for trump you are going to get drafted and called to war? You jumped the shark.

Disgusting.

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Eoten

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#11 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8671 Posts

@tenaka2 said:
@eoten said:

If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

So unless you vote for trump you are going to get drafted and called to war? You jumped the shark.

Disgusting.

There will certainly be a war, Biden has promised that.

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tenaka2

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#12 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

@eoten said:
@tenaka2 said:
@eoten said:

If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

So unless you vote for trump you are going to get drafted and called to war? You jumped the shark.

Disgusting.

There will certainly be a war, Biden has promised that.

Has he though?

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mattbbpl

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#13 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23048 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:

With the district polls I am seeing in swing areas in key states, Trump is toast, and Biden will have a big victory......no, really is a big Trump defeat because Trump has single handedly tanked this re-election campaign. Trump is doing so poorly that Biden's horrendous weaknesses as a candidate are mostly being rendered irrelevant.

And really, giving Biden too much credit here would lead Dems to learn the wrong things. If Biden were to face any other candidate and run the same campaign strategy, he loses. Its nearly Mondale or Dukakis level bad. Biden would never be able to win a "choice" general election, and before the coronavirus really hit, the election was shaping up to be this, instead of the "negative referendum" we got because of Trumps stupidity on the coronavirus and the BLM protests.

Biden has failed to engage young voters, Latinx voters, and even general election black voters and the DNC failed to do this as well, Biden has done nothing to try and reduce his opponents "strength" (the economy), successful strategies that Rove used to do for Bush and what Obama did successfully. Biden has been very vague on many policy matters and made gaffes regarding them (like his Green New Deal gaffe at the debate), and he is lacking in ground game (and ground game wins elections).

But Trump bailed him out. And really, credit Trump for building a large coalition of Never Trump Republicans all the way to the Squad against him. Biden didn't do that. Its Trump that is actively getting young people to support Biden (along with AOC and Sanders GOTV efforts), not Biden himself. Its Trump that turned Biden from a terrible fundraiser to a record breaking one. And its Trump that keeps media scrutiny and attention off Biden, which prevents Biden from making a litany of mistakes he would otherwise make if the spotlight is more on him. In fact, Biden's campaign isn't much in the news, because Trump's stupidity dominates. Trump's ignorance of the coronavirus, not anything Biden has done this campaign, is the reason why seniors are defecting. And Trumps horrendous handling of the BLM protests and George Floyd's killing turned the race and doubled Biden's lead, and all Biden did was stay in the basement. Trump's poor handling on the presidency has also not allowed him to define Joe Biden, and Biden catches a huge break as normally, he would easily be defined by an opponent.

Polls routinely show more people supporting Biden do so because they are voting AGAINST Trump, not FOR Biden. This contrasts with Reagan and Clinton when they unseated incumbents, as voters generally voted FOR them more than AGAINST the incumbent.

Biden is really looking like Jimmy Carter 2.0. He has the luck from his opponent. Carter's campaign in 1976 was saved by Ford's big blunder, but when he met Reagan, Carter was exposed as a very poor campaigner (along being a poor president). This can happen to Biden (if he doesn't realize his age and just serve one term). Biden is only successful because Trump.

I need some citations for this. Everything I've come across from professionals (ie not random forum posts) indicates the Biden doesn't have a popularity problem.

Example

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whiskeystrike

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#14 whiskeystrike
Member since 2011 • 12213 Posts

I'm fine with Biden as a president. He'll overall be a net good for the country but I hope he goes a bit bigger on a stimulus plan + fighting climate change.

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#15 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 178860 Posts

@eoten said:

Yeah, all the polls that made the same predictions and had the same "leads" in 2016. Yawn. Just remember when you lose this time, it's not because the country is racist, sexist, or Russian trolls. It's because Americans just really don't like the extreme ideologies of the far left represented in this election.

Just remember, under Biden your taxes WILL go up, unless you pay none at all. Your costs of living are going to go up as well, especially the price per gallon of gasoline. And the US will be put into one, perhaps more major wars in the Middle East as Biden is 100% all for a full scale invasion of Syria. If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

First..........thanks to trump taxes have to raised. Second.........Biden is going after the wealthy for the tax increase. Stop fearmongering. Yeah taxes may get raised but at this point in time Biden has not made that his policy. The wars we've been involved in have started on GOP presidents. So again fear mongering.

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Zaryia

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#16  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

@eoten said:

It's because Americans just really don't like the extreme ideologies of the far left represented in this election.

What. Democrats had 10million more votes in 2018.

Polls show them as more popular for Americans. Democrat policies win over GOP on most major topics in national polls. These are facts when looking at the average of polling for policies over the last 5 years. Furthermore when you take out old dying people, the Democrat lead grows significantly.

Stop saying Americans, be more accurate and say the EC so I can stop fact checking you on this lie. Thank you.

@eoten said:

Just remember, under Biden your taxes WILL go up, unless you pay none at all. Your costs of living are going to go up as well, especially the price per gallon of gasoline. And the US will be put into one, perhaps more major wars in the Middle East as Biden is 100% all for a full scale invasion of Syria. If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

Biden's economy will be superior to Trump's according to multiple analysists including the coveted Moodys.

Your opinion is noted, but as usual, irrelevant.

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#17 DaVillain  Moderator
Member since 2014 • 56317 Posts

As a former Bernie Sanders fan, Biden isn't my personal choice but he'll get my support because Trump needs to go and it's pretty clear Trump wasn't trying during these debates. I think Biden is in an excellent position to win this election, but I think we have got to do more as a campaign than just go after Trump. Being not-Trump is good enough for most American people, and it's hard to get out any message other than that when Trump floods the media with BS, but somehow Biden should get the message out that he's going to actually improve America...and I hope he sticks with it.

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mattbbpl

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#18 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23048 Posts

@davillain-: Plus, down ballot support. It's always criminally underrated, but this year it's especially critical.

Even once all national winners are announced, I'll be nervously watching state races.

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super600

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#19  Edited By super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33103 Posts

Biden is actually winning because he has used his many traditional strengths like his strong character to get the vast majority of the electorate on his side in a time of crisis. Biden has also rarely attacked the GOP itself and has mostly attacked trump for his handling of america and backed up these attacks by talking about his vision for the country. Trump on the other hand has run one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen in the modern era. He has provided no reasons for people to reelect him and he has been constantly on the attack against biden and anyone he disagrees with while ignoring people’s concerns about covid and his leadership. This is why biden is on track for a historic landslide win because trump’s campaign has alienated many traditional Republican voters while biden‘s has been appealing to these voters.

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horgen

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#20 horgen
Member since 2006 • 127525 Posts

@super600: Trumps campaign also seems very much to attack his 4 years as president as well. At least that is my first impression of it.

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#21  Edited By Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 2709 Posts

I said it in the other thread before, its trump fighting himself. There is practically no interest in biden even remotely. It's for trump or against trump really.

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tenaka2

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#22 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

@super600 said:

Biden is actually winning because he has used his many traditional strengths like his strong character to get the vast majority of the electorate on his side in a time of crisis. Biden has also rarely attacked the GOP itself and has mostly attacked trump for his handling of america and backed up these attacks by talking about his vision for the country. Trump on the other hand has run one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen in the modern era. He has provided no reasons for people to reelect him and he has been constantly on the attack against biden and anyone he disagrees while ignoring people’s concerns about covid and his leadership. This is why biden is on track for a historic landslide win because trump’s campaign has alienated many traditional Republican voters while biden‘s has been appealing to these voters.

He certainly seems to have the likability and empathy factors, both of which trump lacks entirely.

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SUD123456

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#23 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6959 Posts

@eoten said:

Yeah, all the polls that made the same predictions and had the same "leads" in 2016. Yawn. Just remember when you lose this time, it's not because the country is racist, sexist, or Russian trolls. It's because Americans just really don't like the extreme ideologies of the far left represented in this election.

Just remember, under Biden your taxes WILL go up, unless you pay none at all. Your costs of living are going to go up as well, especially the price per gallon of gasoline. And the US will be put into one, perhaps more major wars in the Middle East as Biden is 100% all for a full scale invasion of Syria. If it's bad enough, you may even be drafted for it.

Yep. All of that.

Plus Biden is the head of the of the lizard king's army and once he is elected he'll order the first born of every white family to be offered as tithe.

And since he is also an extreme far leftist he will nationalize all companies, execute all CEOs, jail all bankers, burn all US currency, and give out a free bag of grain every month to all families. Two bags for brown or black families.

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mattbbpl

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#24 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23048 Posts

@SUD123456:

I did a double take at your name after that first line.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#25 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

Is this what the Bernie camp is discussing these days? I guess your 'enthusiasm' mantra got worn out. They got tired of making excuses of losing to Biden in the primary so now they're prepping excuses for his potential win.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#26 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan: WTF are you talking about?

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HoolaHoopMan

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#27 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: WTF are you talking about?

OP has was claiming months ago that Biden would lose as his 'enthusiasm' rating amongst voters wasn't high enough. That we were doomed by not picking Bernie.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#28 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan: I’m a Bernie supporter, I like almost everything about him. He is unelectable on a national level. He is too far to the left of the average American to win right now. We would be doomed with Bernie.

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#29 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I’m a Bernie supporter, I like almost everything about him. He is unelectable on a national level. He is too far to the left of the average American to win right now. We would be doomed with Bernie.

My comment was more poking fun at his OP which is basically saying, 'Biden will win but it's not cause he's good, it's because Trump is that bad.'

His goal posts shifted, that's all.

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#31 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

Trump is a loser, this is true.

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texasgoldrush

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#32 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14943 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I’m a Bernie supporter, I like almost everything about him. He is unelectable on a national level. He is too far to the left of the average American to win right now. We would be doomed with Bernie.

Bernie would also win this election, almost any Democratic candidate can, because Trump is so bad.
Also the polls I have seen showed him slightly underperforming Biden but still winning by a healthy margin. And historically, two more extreme ideological candidates have defeated unpopular incumbents. FDR and Reagan.

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: WTF are you talking about?

OP has was claiming months ago that Biden would lose as his 'enthusiasm' rating amongst voters wasn't high enough. That we were doomed by not picking Bernie.

Its still a problem and his victory would actually be an outlier in this regard. Also, he was only up 4 points in the polls at the time I posted the topic and looked to be in real trouble with key demographics.

That was before the coronavirus really got going and the Floyd protests.

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texasgoldrush

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#33 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14943 Posts
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I’m a Bernie supporter, I like almost everything about him. He is unelectable on a national level. He is too far to the left of the average American to win right now. We would be doomed with Bernie.

My comment was more poking fun at his OP which is basically saying, 'Biden will win but it's not cause he's good, it's because Trump is that bad.'

His goal posts shifted, that's all.

No, the race did because Trump chose to basically tank his campaign with his stupid handling on the coronavirus. In fact, once again, Trump had better polling in the Spring and was actually cutting into Biden's lead.

And had the coronavirus not hit, Biden loses.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#34 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@thegreatchomp said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I’m a Bernie supporter, I like almost everything about him. He is unelectable on a national level. He is too far to the left of the average American to win right now. We would be doomed with Bernie.

My comment was more poking fun at his OP which is basically saying, 'Biden will win but it's not cause he's good, it's because Trump is that bad.'

His goal posts shifted, that's all.

No, the race did because Trump chose to basically tank his campaign with his stupid handling on the coronavirus. In fact, once again, Trump had better polling in the Spring and was actually cutting into Biden's lead.

And had the coronavirus not hit, Biden loses.

I think Trump loses even without corona. He's a disgrace. Not a Bernie sanders disgrace, but still pretty bad.

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#36 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@sonicare: Bernie is not a disgrace, you can’t just throw that label on people you disagree with.

Yes he is. In the united states of america, you can express an opinion against any person , especially a public figure. He's a disgrace. perhaps, you may hail from an autocratic country where free speech is suppressed and people are forced to stomach autocrats like Sanders, but in the US, we can voice dissent.

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#38 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@sonicare: I am an American, and like most we don’t think you just slap labels on people just because you disagree with them.

Sanders isn’t a disgrace just because you said so. He needs to have actually done something to warrant such a slur and he hasn’t. You also personally attack people who back him, which is uncalled for.

Stop hiding behind muh freedoms. Not all of us are like that. Oh and calling somebody not American just because you disagree is high level trolling.

I dont like sanders or his platform. To me, he is a disgrace. Stop trying to suppress my opinion. Unlike you, many people in this country respect free speech. You cant shut down opinions you disagree with. Shame on you.

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#40 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@sonicare: Oh, you’re just trolling. Thought for a second you were serious.

So if anybody disagrees with your point of view, they are trolling?

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Baconstrip78

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#42 Baconstrip78
Member since 2013 • 1855 Posts

@texasgoldrush: I live in white suburban PA. Trump is done, it was Trump and Hillary signs all up the block in 2016, now it’s only Biden.

I’m willing to bet accounts against anyone who thinks Trump still has a shot. Just line them up. Porn suicides for everyone.

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#43 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 2247 Posts

@eoten: You seem to be scare mongering and talking without any factual logic!

You claim taxes will go up if Biden wins? Well given the fact that the US will hit a new record high on debt-to-GDP ratio, taxes are going to increase no matter who wins.

Also, I’ll add interest on debt in the US is hitting 9% of the US budget next year and will climb further. This is due to a long history of excessive borrowing.

Trump borrowed quite excessively despite the US economy was growing when he should have been doing the opposite.

What is borrowed needs to be repaid. So those T-bills that China and Japan pick up, some of them will mature and the US needs to cough up.

The cost of living is coming down in almost every pandemic hit country since the beginning of the year.

If you look at factual data, inflation has increased every year in the US since 2015.

The US Federal Reserve is more concerned with deflation at the moment and they want inflation, ideally around 2.50%.

Gasoline prices are unlikely to be higher under Biden by much, if any, only if he increases taxes on it.

Global crude oil prices are extremely weak and likely to remain weak for the next 18-24 months. Remember WTI went negative a few months ago?

So even if Biden raises a little tax on gasoline (and he should) gasoline should be cheaper in 2021 and 2022 compared to 2019.

So I think you can rest your concerns regarding Biden.

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#44  Edited By my_user_name
Member since 2019 • 1264 Posts
@texasgoldrush said:

And really, giving Biden too much credit here would lead Dems to learn the wrong things. If Biden were to face any other candidate and run the same campaign strategy, he loses. Its nearly Mondale or Dukakis level bad. Biden would never be able to win a "choice" general election, and before the coronavirus really hit, the election was shaping up to be this, instead of the "negative referendum" we got because of Trumps stupidity on the coronavirus and the BLM protests.

Are the democrats capable of learning?

Seems to me like they are not and have lucked into a win. (that may not matter anyways since the other side is doing everything in their power to steal the election)

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#45 super600  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 33103 Posts

@my_user_name said:
@texasgoldrush said:

And really, giving Biden too much credit here would lead Dems to learn the wrong things. If Biden were to face any other candidate and run the same campaign strategy, he loses. Its nearly Mondale or Dukakis level bad. Biden would never be able to win a "choice" general election, and before the coronavirus really hit, the election was shaping up to be this, instead of the "negative referendum" we got because of Trumps stupidity on the coronavirus and the BLM protests.

Are the democrats capable of learning?

Seems to me like they are not and have lucked into a win. (that may not matter anyways since the other side is doing everything in their power to steal the election)

Trump is on track to likely do the worst any incumbent president has done at the ballot box in 88 years. I wouldn't call the dems lucky for winning this election. They ran a pretty great campaign focused on a lot of the democratic ticket's strengths while the other side ran one of the worst campaigns in decades.

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#46  Edited By deactivated-63d1ad7651984
Member since 2017 • 10057 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

Biden is like a used car with the check engine light on that the dealer forced you to buy. We just ignore that in hopes it will get us to where we need to be in order to get a better one.

Great analogy so true.

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#47 BenjaminBanklin
Member since 2004 • 11241 Posts

It is what it is. Biden is not my first choice in a democratic nominee, but I'm voting for someone that remembers he's a politician that serves the people, not a mad monarchist wannabe trying to implode the country via Twitter. The far-right conspiratorial culture war bubble doesn't amount to jack shit in real crises.

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#48  Edited By Djoffer123
Member since 2016 • 2255 Posts

@texasgoldrush: as an onlooker from the eu I think you are spot on, it’s not like most ( any tbh) people are up in arms on how great a president Biden is going to be, like they were with Obama. It’s just no one wants another 4 years with trump.. guess the upside for the republicans are that the next election in 4 years are going to be in their favor if they have to go up against Biden. Unless he is dead before then of course:)

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#49 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8671 Posts

@super600 said:
@my_user_name said:
@texasgoldrush said:

And really, giving Biden too much credit here would lead Dems to learn the wrong things. If Biden were to face any other candidate and run the same campaign strategy, he loses. Its nearly Mondale or Dukakis level bad. Biden would never be able to win a "choice" general election, and before the coronavirus really hit, the election was shaping up to be this, instead of the "negative referendum" we got because of Trumps stupidity on the coronavirus and the BLM protests.

Are the democrats capable of learning?

Seems to me like they are not and have lucked into a win. (that may not matter anyways since the other side is doing everything in their power to steal the election)

Trump is on track to likely do the worst any incumbent president has done at the ballot box in 88 years. I wouldn't call the dems lucky for winning this election. They ran a pretty great campaign focused on a lot of the democratic ticket's strengths while the other side ran one of the worst campaigns in decades.

Where are you actually reading that crap? I do hope you will learn your lesson after this election, and not take them seriously going forward when you see just how wrong, or dishonest, those feeding you that information actually are.

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#50 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

@eoten said:

Where are you actually reading that crap? I do hope you will learn your lesson after this election, and not take them seriously going forward when you see just how wrong, or dishonest, those feeding you that information actually are.

The irony is incredible.

Where are you getting your information from?