John Oliver's piece on the confederacy

well, good , but that still does not mean soldiers should be mentioned as you do.

Yes, your argument is the same , you judge everyone fighting for a side because you do not agree with the leaders main reason , despite it not being that black&white. So no your argument about confederate soldiers is again as i have pointed out just stupid and the same hippies used to mistreat soldiers from Vietnam.

What i listed was reasons not by-products. While the leaders may have felt strongly about slavery and their way of life and felt it was worth going to war over, that was as much of a cause as the problem with the north dictating how the south should live.

Stop trying to move the goal post, i never said anything contradicting , and what i said was the leftist movement not the removal of statues would change america. If you want to talk about byproducts, the removal of statues is just a by product of the main problem. The idea Leftist have that you a right to not be offended.

Oh for fucks sake......the Civil War was fought over slavery. I don't want to hear that they had other reasons nor blaming the leaders. They knew why their states seceded. As for soldiers.........I do not consider a hostile force to the US to be US soldiers. They were not. Also taking down statues does not do a damn thing to that individual.

Remember that when you go to the south that these are not americans. I am sure they will love to hear your opinion.

I lived in the south. Anyway I'm talking about confederate soldiers. They don't apply in 2017. The more you know...

Ahh, you are right, those soldiers is not someone that live todays family.

Ahh, you are right, those soldiers is not someone that live todays family.

I forgot all those soldiers came from Mars and left again.

Wow. You really think anyone has any feelings....let alone memories of ancestors so far in the past to maybe be a name on a family tree if they even know that. Way to move those goalposts a long distance dude.

Yes, some people do actually care. Like you seemed to care about Columbus day. oh and btw Happy be-lated Columbus day ;)

you know like the same people demanding that we all feel bad for what happened back then with the slaves. But i get your meaning , you only care about your side and the rest is not americans.

I think some hit on the point of it being a state rights issue and individuals property, but I also think what a lot of people are missing is that a lot of the soldiers from the south essentially fought because they had too as that was their career. If you grew up in the south back in those times it was either you had money and you were a slave owner, or you were poor and in the military. Hence, why the south was considered to have some of the best generals and army at that time as many made that their career. There weren't many options down there like there was in the North. The other thing is that a lot of soldiers were simply defending their home. How many of you would just walk away from your home, your property, and family when this was occurring? How many of you would fight for it? Its not simply a black and white issue with no grey area at all. Granted, the romanticizing of the confederate flag and all that other garbage is getting old and tiresome. However, this idea that we sit here and go out of way to remove this or remove that or keep harping on something such as this ad nauseam is also as tiring.

Like hey we ALL get it. Slavery was abhorrent, disgusting, and something that should never have been allowed to begin with, but this idea that people from 150 years ago should have known better or should be thrown in the garbage forever to be forgotten is petty and solves nothing. That was a different time, a much different society, and way of thinking. For us to sit here on our high horses and speak all high and mighty of something that happened close to 200 years ago is laughable.

A british comedian critiquing. Man He most know a lot.

You guys are filling your head with dog shit daily.

No no they don't. All they care about is pushing their agenda. No one cares about past relatives they never met. No one.

Like hey we ALL get it. Slavery was abhorrent, disgusting, and something that should never have been allowed to begin with, but this idea that people from 150 years ago should have known better or should be thrown in the garbage forever to be forgotten is petty and solves nothing. That was a different time, a much different society, and way of thinking. For us to sit here on our high horses and speak all high and mighty of something that happened close to 200 years ago is laughable.

LOL nice sarcasm. But at least you can see the truth so that is something.

So your thinking is that we should continue to honor these terrible people simply because it was a different time and we shouldnt expect them to have known better? That is even more ridiculous because I will let you in on a little fact, there were tons of people in those days that did know better, so your argument holds no weight. They decided what to fight for, they knew they were fighting for the side that wanted to continue owing fellow human beings, that is all on them. They don't deserve to be remembered outside of history books. Trust me, they will never be forgotten having been on the wrong end of the worst war in United States history.

Not disagreeing, but couldn't you apply that argument to all the founding fathers? Many of them were slave owners. The united states was created with both the institution of slavery and also genocide/displacement of the indigenous people. Many of the heroes we worship in the US and other countries, often have very checkered pasts.

Not disagreeing, but couldn't you apply that argument to all the founding fathers? Many of them were slave owners. The united states was created with both the institution of slavery and also genocide/displacement of the indigenous people. Many of the heroes we worship in the US and other countries, often have very checkered pasts.

You could and should question idolizing everyone but I don't see the comparison of the Founding Fathers to Confederate traitors.

The Founding Fathers fought for ideals that despite their own personal failings as human beings, are GOOD ideas and virtues. The stuff espoused by Thomas Jefferson is still quality and worth fighting for even if the man himself is of questionable virtue. Statues and monuments to the founding fathers emphasize those good things, not the bad. Statues to the Confederacy are the opposite - they are put up specifically to honour the bad parts, like breaking up the country and forcing it to have brothers, sons, and fathers fight against each other, and to honour the idea that blacks are inherently inferior to the white man and that their "natural state" is slavery to the white man. To me that is the difference between comparing the two.

Think of it in video game terms - when it comes to Thomas Jefferson, owning slaves is a glitch or an unintended consequence. When it comes to the Confederate leaders, owning and fighting for slavery is the main feature.

Could you do more mental gymnastics?

Just to be clear any slave owner is a slave owner, some are not more ok just because they share your side of the fence.

Could you do more mental gymnastics?

Just to be clear any slave owner is a slave owner, some are not more ok just because they share your side of the fence.

So then do you think that the Founding Fathers are as bad as Confederate leaders?

Not disagreeing, but couldn't you apply that argument to all the founding fathers? Many of them were slave owners. The united states was created with both the institution of slavery and also genocide/displacement of the indigenous people. Many of the heroes we worship in the US and other countries, often have very checkered pasts.