It seems like we need another thread about the U.S. healthcare system.

Hey all. I'm starting this thread since debates about healthcare were taking over a forum dedicated to Justice Ginsberg. This is a huge and complex issue that could easily get away from me, so I'm going to try to focus on one point for my initial post. We'll see where things go from here.

Someone made the assertion that Obamacare had caused healthcare costs to skyrocket, but all data I've found suggests this had been going on long before the ACA was even a twinkle in Mitt Romney's eye.

On the one hand, you can argue that the ACA has not caused a dramatic increase in costs, but on the other it hasn't reigned them in either.

While I do think Obamacare is a step up from where we were, it doesn't address the underlying problems with our system as a whole. Healthcare doesn't work like other commodities. It's not like buying a pizza as some would have us believe. You don't get a referral from your primary food provider to see a pizza specialist, who upon running some tests recommends you a certain type of pizza based on your condition, the cost of which is tallied up by multiple parties, and sent to you months later, long after the pizza treatment has been completed.

Anyway, I'm going to stop before this turns into a big wall of text and just see where the conversation goes. Here's the source of the chart:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#item-start

It's impossible to fix. There's no 1st world standard to examine when it comes to medical expenditures, pricing, and their relation to overall population health. But I heard extending HSA contributions might be our best bet. *snort*

/sarcasm

The US still has the best healthcare in the world. Capitalism incentivizes this. It breeds competition, innovation, and choice. Governments do the exact opposite. You can argue this till the cows come home - but it’s a fact.

The problem is the hospitals charging 100 dollars for off-the-shelf Tylenol, 50,000 dollars per night spent in intensive care, and so on.

There's a solution out there somewhere, and we'd have it by now if these assholes in charge would just work together.

Unfortunately they are all bought and paid for by companies.

and all it costs is our wellbeing or livelihood! Huzzah!

I sure am happy I had a super awesome doctor to fix my broken leg, if only it didn't cost me 100,000 dollars.

@Sevenizz: "Best" is debateable, but I do think our healthcare providers are overall very good. Insurance is what needs work. For one, having so many different plans with so little consitancy between them creates bureaucracy. They also take many decisions out of the consumers hands, which stifles the free market pressure to keep costs down.

Having a single payer system won't fix all this, but it would make coverage consistent. This would bring down administrative costs, and make pricing easier for consumers to predict.

The actual system is probably the worst out of all the developed countries.
Best healthcare in the world - where are you getting that from?

I do not trust and will never trust the US government with my health or my families health. There is hardly any government run programs that are not rut with corruption and over spending. Everyone bitches about how poorly everything is run by our government cough cough USPS, SS, welfare, and military, but lets trust them now with our healthcare.

SCREW THAT!

Who complains about any of those programs being poorly run? That's BS.

@diefthyntis: I think he meant in per capita cost?

bahahaha

where is the completion?

if that were the case, if it were a competitive marketplace we wouldn't see costs rising and quality of outcomes falling.... we would see the opposite.

What a mess.

Anything ran by our government is just a huge POS and I never want them touching my healthcare.

If they would just work together, consult with intelligent and informed professionals, I swear to god we'd solve this and many other problems.

The problem is politicians are payed to play sides. So even if they personally think it's a good idea, if a large company donates a few hundred grand to their campaign, it is going to get shot down.

The second we take the money out of politics, shit will get done. This government is by the people, for the people....at least on paper. And it's one of the best in the world in theory, we just need to start letting it work and stop fighting each other.

We are sitting on a winning lottery ticket here in the US, and yet we just keep ignoring it.

Yeah for real. USPS works well. SS people bitch about but the second you talk about taking it away everyone screams bloody murder. Welfare works. And....the military? For real? US military is the best in the world.

Very efficient too:

"Air Force spends $1,280 per special coffee cup, Sen. Grassley wants to know why

The 60th Ariel Port Squadron at California’s Travis Air Force Base is drinking their coffee out of $1,280 coffee cups and Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley wants to know why.

Fox News reported that over the last three years, the squad tallied up a $56,000 bill for the metal mugs. Just two years ago, the price of the mugs was around $963, but has risen even higher due to the expenditure process. The mug makes it possible for crew members to warm their drinks during flights aboard a highly-regulated air refueling tanker."

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/10/air-force-spends-1280-per-special-coffee-cup-sen-grassley-wants-to-know-why/

Only the best for the best, amirite?

Not only do they warm, but they're designed to handle G's when flying, obviously they're going to be expensive :D

Found some prototype test footage

@mrbojangles25 said:

@AfterShafter said:

@mrbojangles25 said:

@LJS9502_basic said:

Who complains about any of those programs being poorly run? That's BS.

Yeah for real. USPS works well. SS people bitch about but the second you talk about taking it away everyone screams bloody murder. Welfare works. And....the military? For real? US military is the best in the world.

Very efficient too:

"Air Force spends $1,280 per special coffee cup, Sen. Grassley wants to know why

The 60th Ariel Port Squadron at California’s Travis Air Force Base is drinking their coffee out of $1,280 coffee cups and Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley wants to know why.

Fox News reported that over the last three years, the squad tallied up a $56,000 bill for the metal mugs. Just two years ago, the price of the mugs was around $963, but has risen even higher due to the expenditure process. The mug makes it possible for crew members to warm their drinks during flights aboard a highly-regulated air refueling tanker."

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/10/air-force-spends-1280-per-special-coffee-cup-sen-grassley-wants-to-know-why/

Only the best for the best, amirite?

Not only do they warm, but they're designed to handle G's when flying, obviously they're going to be expensive :D

Found some prototype test footage

Ok, colour me impressed.

As a foreigner, it's pretty obvious that the American military is the envy of the world twice over. On top of that, it is largely responsible for the stable global order that lets countries like mine (Canada) act all high and mighty because we don't have much of a military. Go figure, you have that luxury when the Americans do all the heavy lifting for you. Many in my country don't know how good we have it because Americans go off to fight and die to maintain the world order as it is. As such, I tip my at to the sons of a foreign land dying for global stability, and I feel sad when they die for political games.

I can understand complaints about it though. Every once in a while I see an article coming out of your news cycle which shows that it can be, at times, a money pit in ways that really could likely be improved upon.

The cup one was just the one I saw recently. Stuff like this comes around too:

"U.S. Army fudged its accounts by trillions of dollars, auditor finds

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States Army’s finances are so jumbled it had to make trillions of dollars of improper accounting adjustments to create an illusion that its books are balanced.

The Defense Department’s Inspector General, in a June report, said the Army made $2.8 trillion in wrongful adjustments to accounting entries in one quarter alone in 2015, and $6.5 trillion for the year. Yet the Army lacked receipts and invoices to support those numbers or simply made them up."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-audit-army-idUSKCN10U1IG

Greatest in the world? Absolutely. Needs a bit of house cleaning? Yeah, that too. One can understand a taxpayer getting a bit pissed hearing stuff like this.

Just for curiosity, how much does the average middle class American pay for health insurance each year and are there additional out of pocket costs for hospital stays, ambulances, emergency procedures etc?

@Sevenizz: Why do you think the US has the best healthcare in the world? What measure are you using?

There are different methodologies, I am just curious...

The WHO ranks the US at 15th...

The military is not a POS.

I love out military, but I do not like how our government runs our military. I will say under Trump I respect the fact that in the last 39 years he is the first president not to start a conflict with our military. I still think our veterans need more support then they are getting, but I also know he is trying to help fix that issue. I also think our soldiers need to come home and I don't like how our government keeps them in long sustained conflicts.

So again anything out government touches tends to go to shit. That is why I don't want them muddling in my healthcare. Hell just look at the mess the government caused with student loans and how that is all tied with the price of college going up. Look how out public education system is not even in the top 10 in the world. Look how our social programs don't actual help people get out of poverty, but we always think the answer is to pump more money into the programs.

the cost of are military... is way to much. 1 other thing is we need to support them after their tours.

now the cost of said military.... per year ....

i can make bezo my butler for a week.

@Xabiss: Military run as a private interest is even worse. How do you suggest it turns a profit? The military is not a business, it's a service.

I stopped engaging in the conversation when he said the US military is a government run mess to paraphrase.

I explained my stance and it is a government run mess. Just like all things our government touches. That is the reason I do not want them touching my health care. I don't trust the government with my health or my life. Sorry you you do.

Straw man dude. I mentioned the military.

@Xabiss: You want the troops home and not in armed conflicts? Where was this when liberals were saying that for over 60 years?

I have always said that. Have no idea where you are coming from me not saying this. I always think we over stay our welcome in conflicts and I would rather have your military men home.

I see you have no argument with what I said so please quit getting off topic it is against the rules.

I'm not off topic. You mentioned the military in your initial post. So if I'm off topic then you are as well. As for government health care..........seems most countries make it work.

@Xabiss: So is it poorly run, or something else? If poorly run you can opt for people who want to improve how things run.

Unfortunately there is no one running that is going to improve our government. We are a two party system and I really don't like how either side is acting right now. That is why I will be voting 3rd party and not giving any of them my support.

You can always also have your own insurance.

Protesting will most likely have a bigger effect.

Though since you mention it. It seems people in US think it is very OK for their leaders to be benefitting extraordinarily from working in elected offices.

This was in regards to the military. How would that work with insurance? :P

@LJS9502_basic: Private insurance is just as bad as government insurance.

@Xabiss: I’ve been attacked by the right for saying the same thing. As hating America, the military and loving terrorists.

Yes but the person I quoted was whining about government healthcare....so that's his option.

@horgen Yes but he moved the goal post when I responded to that.

@LJS9502_basic: He has two options, private or none. I suggest none, pay for it out of pocket if both bother you.

I can agree private insurance sucks also. I don't know what the fix is yet or how you fix the corrupt system that we have. I just know for a fact I do not want the government controlling anything to do with my health. That is just how I feel about it. They always run other programs to the ground and I don't want my health to be part of those corrupt systems.

I also don't want the government taking more money in the form of taxes to do what they want with. To provide healthcare taxes will be raised and I don't trust the government with my money.

@Xabiss: I oppose any tax hikes for health care. We already pay the most total and per capita in the world on health care. So no, fix what we have. We spend enough.

There has yet to be any kind of healthcare plan suggested that isn't going to result in tax hikes. Someone's paying for it.

tax hikes, and a net drop in total costs

@eoten: I said that not Matt. At least get who you are attacking right. Yeesh.

And who said I liked any of the current proposals? Not me.

Lol, he deleted the comment!

@thegreatchomp: I was wondering what you were talking about. I'm sorry I missed it!

@mattbbpl: I took a screenshot before he deleted it!

I can agree that we pay way to damn much as it is. I am soooooooo tired of taxes and seeing how it is wasted. That includes my local taxes also.

You also know if they did increase taxes to pay for health care you know dang well not all of it would just go to healthcare. So no new taxes!

@Xabiss: I want to know why we pay so much but still get crap care! How can Canada get universal health care while paying less. The government is mismanaging our money.

I don't find Canadas government as corrupt as ours is today. They are no wear near as big and not in the worlds eye as much which helps with the corruption. I believe it really just comes down to that and the US has a lot more money then Canada to pad wallets and corporations.

1k in taxes per year for healthcare? Hell, no!

5k a year in premiums instead? Hell, yes!