Is "white privilege" a racist weapon?

you answered a different question.

My question is, why do you think blacks are committing more homicides? (as in what is the reason they are doing it in your mind, not questioning the claim)....and yes the question is a trap but its also a trap to bring the conversation to honesty, and most of my friends are liberal and white. Most of the people in the protests are white. So the my question is not about political views, its about color.

So to point number one, I'm asking you do you think they are unjustly focusing on particular high crime areas when it comes to being a more of a risk to public safety... and is it still racist that it might be a black/brown community? Again take a look at the statistics... middle-class/rich areas aren't exactly a threat to public safety, and don't have as much crime. And one might suggest that you end up with more drug users in those areas.. when caught... lead the dea into black/brown communities for dealers/distributors.

For point two, ok, that means nothing... but I'll say this. The united states have unquestionably has mobility from poor to middle class, so being poor in america isn't the only issue facing black community or driving high crime rates. Not to mention affirmative action gives black people a better chance to move to the middle class. And almost every ethnic group actually takes advantage of the mobility including black immigrants...

What it almost always comes back to with all the problems is cultural breakdown and the perpetuated myth of racism in america. It may have been true 60 years ago but not today. So exactly how do you think the 2 facts you mentioned actually factor in to the problem?

We're definitely reached a breakdown socially enough so that its a self sustaining problem, the police... might actually being doing their jobs... correctly and it ends up... effecting communities proportionally to the amount of crime an communities produce.

Nailed it. /thread

Because there is no emphasis in the black community to trust law enforcement or people in general. They are taught from a young age racism is everywhere. The police are correctly doing their jobs and aren't randomly and unjustly focusing on these particular communities. What you end up with is a community that is stuck in a self destructive culture who are unwilling to trust law enforcement, and democrats consistent perpetuate this myth for votes instead of maybe... expecting better from black communities. Maybe the black community needs to understand the focus on their communities isn't racism its that they are killing each other at alarming rates...

So its still the conservative view on the issue... so I don't understand why you think I didn't answer it.

lets think about that for a second. I will use an extreme example of what you are saying:

because of a liberal conspiracy to brainwash black people into thinking racism is everywhere and they need to watch out is why they are committing more crime.

well first off why would a liberal group do that and second off, having had black friends personally, I can tell you that thinking racism is everywhere makes you afraid of cops, they feel cops are more likely to pull them over so they are extra careful. Why do you think there are more white people protesting for BLM movements then black people? have you ever given that a thought?

Nice alt you have there.

I'm not saying its a conspiracy, I'm saying certain groups of white people are struggling to face the reality of the issues. Democrats in particular continue to perpetuate a myth that used to be true. They view almost everything through this filter as well as black people. Rubin is a good example of how someone can believe something without even understanding a single fact on the issue. KOD is a good example of the people that see everything through this filter. It must be racism because they are targeting black communities! Except its only racism if they are doing that explicitly because of race and not... violent crime statistics pushing them to do so because of public safety.

Its not like they are unjustly going to jail, they are committing crimes. Which leaves significant portion of single mothers in the community, and the men don't stick around, leaving a significant single mothers... We've got one of two choices the way I see it, we stop policing their streets and hope crime rates go down and they magically have higher standards in school... OR we start realizing there is no boogey man and if they want their children to succeed they need to adopt the 'white privilege' ability to self sacrifice everything so your kids will be better off. In most normal cases families that have these values move out of poverty in a couple of generations. Is it really so hard to believe that they are just failing... not being held back?

'used to be true' Charlotte Protests didnt make it look like very long ago.

So lets review:

1. someone who believe the police are being injustice to their kind are not going to commit MORE crimes, they are likely to commit less.

2. So if that is clearly not the reason then it leaves the question unanswered, if you believe blacks commit more crimes then I have to ask, why do they commit more crimes? because daddy isnt there? ok, why isnt daddy there? answer the question not in bits and parts but the whole thing, leave no hole uncovered for me to walk a mac truck thru. we dont get a ton of posts per day here. (incidentally, the majority of people do not have a father figure in the home because the father is usually working and when home catching up on other things)

Charlotte protest... against systemic violence... Do you understand the police's job of force is a monopoly on lawful violence? You know a non compliant black person who is forcefully (police use violence to subdue) arrested... and no one protests over white people. Your assuming the situation was unjust.. just like in every other encounter blown up by the media, can likely be traced back to a lie like "hands up don't shoot". Again not a conspiracy but a failure to get the facts right before reporting and allowing a community to be outraged over it.

1. No, and the amount of stupid charges goes up significantly when they fail to comply with police because of trust issues, or want to work in any lawful system because they believe they won't be treated fairly. And failure to comply always leads to police violence or forceful arrest.

2. What a load of shit, the majority of families don't have father figures because the father works? You realize a father that works in a house hold helps bring home money, which creates financial security (assuming the mother is still there)... with two parents it orients children to prepare for the future because they see two adults that... work and provide.

Black commits more crime because they are in poverty, there is know denying the cyclical nature of the issue, black people go to jail, their families are broken, their children grow up in poverty and resort to crime and have extremely high violent crime rates, and they go to jail. So whats racist about this problem and how would you propose we fix it? Even if white people's crimes are being ignored, I fail to see the what-aboutism stopping the self destructive black communities or high violent crime rates. So we stop focusing on black communities so we let them die in the streets instead of jail?

So please explain to me how police focus is a problem? Its only a problem if they are criminals from my point of view.

1. trust me I know from personal first hand experience that fear of the police is making black people become extra careful, not the inverse. But I will accept that as your answer, its just not based on facts. There are two reasons why the majority of BLM marchers are white..fear of cops and income keep the black folks away

So why are blacks in poverty more so then whites?

To answer your question, a person is NOT a criminal until they have a trail. A police office is not judge jury and executioner and I can assure you when someone you agree with gets charged you will have a completely different view on it being fair. which is why it works the way it does, to protect people from mob mentality of assuming guilt just because a cop said so

Personal experience isn't changing the fact violent crime rates and noncompliance with police are statistically dominated by black communities.

So why are blacks in poverty more so then whites?

I've answered this, 'underclass' culture, poor performance in school, financially unstable, dependent on government entitlements that aren't designed to give financial mobility but dependence.

To answer your question, a person is NOT a criminal until they have a trail. A police office is not judge jury and executioner and I can assure you when someone you agree with gets charged you will have a completely different view on it being fair. which is why it works the way it does, to protect people from mob mentality of assuming guilt just because a cop said so

That didn't answer my question. I said police focus on a community, we aren't talking about an individual.

They are not acting as judge/jury, they are reacting to public safety issues in violent crime areas. Again you'd have to believe that police are following black people and ignoring white crime to get those statistics... OR that black people are actually disproportionately committing crime.

So which is it? And you aren't answering the question of what are police supposed to do with high crime areas? Are you suggesting that cops shouldn't police high crime areas more vigorously if its racially sensitive?

1. its the other way around which is what you dont seem to understand. you think whatever a police officer does is justified without question. As a white person I can see how you might assume that is true, but I assure you its not. Cops being racist is a real thing, cops taking inappropriate actions toward black people is a very common thing, it just shows a great deal of inexperience to think otherwise frankly. You have to be willing at min. to listen to the complaints and look at the evidence of those complaints objectively and stop putting your entire life trust into anything a cop does.

2. but you havent explain WHY black communities are 'under classed'. I am looking for what is called a differenator. Something where I cant ask 'ok then what is causing X'. lets get to the root, the bottom why is it different. not what is different. If everyone is really given equal opportunity but one group fails a lot more than another then it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what the answer might be. So if you are to honestly believe equal access does exist, you have to subscribe to the other view there really is no other way around it

3. The problem is that in many cases the black person who could have explained what happened is dead. So as far as you are concerned that is where we are in society. The police is the judge...the jury...and the executioner and can do no wrong. A person with basically a Jr. College education is better than the entire legal system.

I think what you are missing is the continuous claim of 'unarmed black man shot dead'. That ALONE deserves an objective look at the facts with at least some level of fucking empathy.

Your misinterpreting what I'm saying.. I'm not talking about a single police officer. I'm talking about a department that sends many police officers into different communities and defines policies based on different criteria/crime rates. Once they are on the ground the police officer is doing his job and likely practicing the policy set for that particular area based on actual data.. again look at the FBI statistics...

Please answer the question... should they not do this? Should they treat violent crime areas with more or less or equal policing? Should they treat an area that is clearly a higher risk to public safety?

2. but you havent explain WHY black communities are 'under classed'. I am looking for what is called a differenator. Something where I cant ask 'ok then what is causing X'. lets get to the root, the bottom why is it different. not what is different.

I've pointed to statistically... single motherhood in almost all cases lead to most of the problems seen in the black community. Here's a quote!

"You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled - doubled - since we were children. We know the statistics - that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it." - obama

3. The problem is that in many cases the black person who could have explained what happened is dead. So as far as you are concerned that is where we are in society. The police is the judge...the jury...and the executioner and can do no wrong. I person with basically a Jr. College education is better than the entire legal system.

I think what you are missing is the continuous claim of 'unarmed black man shot dead'. That ALONE deserves an objective look at the facts with at least some level of fucking empathy.

What are you fucking talking about? I don't think you understand how escalation works. No cop is running down black people and murdering them. In almost all cases where a death happens the victim is being non compliant.

You want to know something people don't really talk openly about? All force is excessive. And messy. 5 people jumping on your or a cop panicking and pulling a gun can always result in serious bodily harm or death. You also don't seem to understand the term 'unarmed black man'.. is a fact of hindsight. Whether or not he's brandishing a weapon is clearly visible. What someone is reaching for is completely unknown. Cops don't know the person is unarmed until after he's in custody or a body bag.

I do look at this with empathy? You know what could save preventable lives? Tell black people to comply, if they are faced with a cop or an arrest, the cop is doing their job at that point. If you don't comply it can only get worse. Remember, if you don't comply he has a gun, he's a human, he's just as likely to make a mistake as any one else. Why don't you have some empathy for the cop because if a death should occur he'll be living with for the rest of his life thinking could he have done something differently so it wouldn't have escalated that way. Its not like this is a good outcome for either person.

I am going to say this one time and I am done.

'unarmed black man shot dead' deserves more empathy and objective look at the facts then you are even remotely coming close to doing. you think if a police officer kills someone who was not armed then you feel it is a FACT that said person deserved it and you have no desire to look more into it.

If you want to know why people are so upset.....THAT is why

For casual reading:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

You can say it as many times as you want... but again no one knows he's unarmed until after the incident.

you think if a police officer kills someone who was not armed then you feel it is a FACT that said person deserved it and you have no desire to look more into it.

How the **** did you pull this from your ass? I'm saying the people that are upset like you, are stupid because they don't understand the cop isn't privy to the detail of whether or not the person is unarmed until after an incident occurs.

let me ask you something... Why do you think the cops ask if there is anything that could hurt them in the suspects pocket after they have cuffs on them... and before they search the pocket? I'm suggesting that maybe if the person doesn't resist arrest he'll have the opportunity to tell the officer there is nothing in his pocket.

I don't think you understand how things... happen. Becomes something increases the chance of the another thing happening has no bearing on whether or not a person deserves it or not. If you x then y is a higher probability. Its just a fact of causation. If you are non compliant then bodily harm or death is a higher probability because the cop will have to use force if your non compliant.

You're being trolled by a few day old account.

probably.. this is why they deserve to be shot.

lol who deserves to be shot?

all the unarmed black people, then cops won't have to worry about making mistakes.

Wow

In your extreme ignorance and trollling, you have clearly demonstrated why black people are fearful of police. For many it has nothing to do with poverty, drugs, or racism, it has to do with the perceived likelihood of getting shot.

The reason I know you feel the police is infallible is because you stated (paraphrase) 'i know that if a police officer tells me to stop that I must stop'

ok...how do you know these people didnt stop? in many cases they DID! In fact, be honest with me, how much do you know about the incidents in question exactly? How do you know the officer didnt just pull someone over randomly and shot them? you would have to know something about the cases to know if that was true or not

First of all there is no such thing as "White Privilege. It is an excuse for bad life choice decisions.

So blacks have had the same success on average as white people?

What? Why would they be fearful of police? If I'm suggesting WE shoot them so police have no uncertainty in encounters..

Although if we go back to statistics and being serious... they are wrong about their perception and need to be re-educated to comply with police. Worst case scenario when resisting is getting shot, if the cop is in the wrong then solve that issue later. But you don't need resisting arrest charges along with potentially being shot.

The reason you think that is because your dumb and you don't understand that the police can give a lawful order and you have to comply while still being mistaken. The fastest and easiest way to clear the mistake is comply, the fastest way to get arrested is resist and you'll get a definite charge there any way.

ok...how do you know these people didnt stop? in many cases they DID! In fact, be honest with me, how much do you know about the incidents in question exactly? How do you know the officer didnt just pull someone over randomly and shot them? you would have to know something about the cases to know if that was true or not

Well... the new body cam's are showing these people aren't stopping... or stupidly resisting even to give a license to the police... so there's that.

lo...no your not following me.

as far as you know the police officer didnt give a command to follow, as far as you know he just walked up and shot the guy. besides...you think its ok to be shot dead if you get pulled over by a police officer and dont do exactly what he says REGARDLESS of what he says?

My stance is this, if people are willing to take to the streets over someone being shot dead and you want to argue with them the very least you can do is to know the facts.

I dont know the facts of these cases but I am also not going around telling the people who are taking to the streets over someone who is killed are wrong for doing so, and I wouldnt do that unless I knew the facts of the case rather just assuming

KNOW THE FACTS

We KNOW that's not happening, i mean most of the ones we keep hearing about are recorded by phones and.. shows the person being non compliant. Body cams... showing suspects being non compliant... car videos showing suspects being non compliant... the few where something happens that shouldn't have the cops get prosecuted.. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/roy-oliver-charged-murder-dallas-police-shooting-jordan-edwards.html

So why are you pretending the facts are unknown?

first off you are NOT required to do anything a cop says no matter what and if you dont you get shot.

reason for that is because cops are often times corrupt flat out fucking fullblown corrupt.

Second off, I state this again...if you are going to be the person who is going to tell people who take to the streets that the person who was shot dead deserved it, the very least you can do is know the fact of the cases. Which it is clear to me you havent.

and dont obfuscate, i never said the facts are not known, i said YOU dont know them. now your just running away I am not a moron I can see thru it

A cop is lawfully allowed to detain you for almost any reason to question you and if your in a car he's lawfully allowed to arrest and impound your car if you refuse to give your license/sign a ticket. He can detain you for as long as it takes to conclude his investigation. If you resist the use of force is a allowed to arrest and depending on how much it escalates (non compliant) the use of deadly force is permitted.

At the point a cop is detaining you, the worst possible thing you can do is not comply with his orders. From the cops perspective he can determine if your brandishing a weapon but he can not determine if your concealing one. So as a cop the best you have is KNOWING they are armed or not knowing. They'll never know your not armed and escalation and uncertainty can lead to the use of deadly force in a matter of seconds.

@waahahah I had to stop at 'detain'.

they do NOT have the legal right to shoot to kill you REGARDLESS of the circumstances order or not. That is factually completely and totally untrue.

They cant go 'suck my >>>>' and if you dont they have the legal right to kill you, they DONT have that right in such a case.

again with the massive amount of assuming that cops never do wrong, that their request is never unreasonable.

They can lawfully use deadly force if a situation escalates to violence or there is a imminent threat.

The problem you don't understand is that judgment is in a large grey area because if it comes down to potential threat and the cop panics the highest probability of survival for the cop, and what they are trained to do when panicing, is pull a gun out and fire 3 shots.

I'm saying ASSUME the cop might do something wrong and panic, comply as much as humanly possible so he feels safe. He's actually allowed to panic if the situation gets out of hand and the more you resist the more grey area exists and he's likely not going to be charged if there is a perceivable potential threat and use of force was necessary. If you reach for your back pocket after resisting that is a perceivable threat and the cops best chance to survive if you do have a gun... is to shoot before you pull it out.

They can lawfully use deadly force.....if....

exactly..

the problem is you have ASSUMED that the 'if' conditions where met without even knowing the facts of the case....(s)

and if you are going to say a murder was justified the least you can do is learn the facts of the case...(s)

I should not have to point out another thing but clearly I do. BLM is not about ONE case..its about MANY case...(s)

how many times do I have to say that?

I didn't, again, based on body camera / bystander footage we KNOW that unjust use of force is an anomaly.

Again the difference is YOUR perspective on the facts. Cops are making judgments on probability, your making judgments with hindsight. People are marching in the streets regardless of the facts or even when its based on a lie that was proven like 'hands up don't shoot'

I will say this again.

If you are going to claim a murder was justified what YOU (personally) need to do is to look into the facts of the case...(s) as they are currently known and NOT assume that all conditions where met to justify force.

your bias ALONE.....is a fail in your argument

PEROID

you need to know specifically what BLM is saying, you need to know specifically which cases they are refering to and you need to know the facts of those cases, its the least you can do if you think murder was justified

Again your perspective is wrong.

My perspective is what exactly?

that if a person feels a murder is justified they should at least know the facts of the case.....(s).

really? why is that?

The facts of the shooting are based on probability and perspective of the time of shooting, not what we learned about the entire situation after the fact.

For example, lets say someone is vigorously resisting arrest, he gets one hand free and reaches around to the back of the pants. The cop shoots him. Is this just?

no they are not based on 'probablity'

seriously you are trying extra hard to say 'no I dont want to read the police report I am just going to go on averages'

That is a horrible way to find out if the cop did something he was not supposed to do in these case...(s).

see how your bias and assumptions are getting you into a whole bunch of hot water? you lost this arguement big time.

Either read the fact of the case...(s) or stop replying because I am done until you do

here...type in 'case' for a search there is enough links there to keep you busy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

@tryit Probability are not averages...

So no you are actually wrong. Cops use of force is lawful, and based on perceived likeliness of a threat, not actual threat.

You and the BLM are viewing this through this prism. Like Eric Gardner was considered justifiable homicide. The 'choke' that was used was trained by police and is not an actual choke, it does not apply pressure to the throat. The cops weren't away of Mr Gardner's health issues and when he resisted arrest they used violence to take him down. He died later of cardiac arrest. Basically had he gone with the cops he'd still be alive.

This wasn't even a case of use of deadly force. And this is what you see time and time again with the majority of these cases. Black person is non compliant, perceived threat goes up, the cops try to arrest forcefully, something bad happens.

I am wrong because i used the word probability? what are you talking about?

why do you REFUSE to read the facts of the case...(s)

how unbelievably biased is a person who explictly REFUSES to read the known facts of the case....(s) and instead argue over probability vs averages. are you being serious right not"?

Just read the facts of the case....(s) that is all I ask of you...PLEASE and please stop applying so many assumptions!

You thought probabilities were averages so you fundamentally do not understand how cops can use justifiable force when there is no actual threat. Where there being no real threat is something that can only be determined AFTER an incident happens.

You keep saying read the facts. I'm telling you your reading facts that aren't taken into consideration whether or not something is a mistake but justified, or a mistake and unjustified. Again the death is the worst case scenario, its whether or not the cop was grossly wrong in his judgment or if it was something that happened amidst a struggle with an adrenaline rush and the cops judgement was sound.

Eric Gardner's death was a mistake but justified because he resisted arrest and the cops couldn't have known that forcefully taking him down was significantly more probable to lead to his death.

The anomalies where the cops are in the wrong, are almost always prosecuted. Especially for black people where visibility of what happens is pretty high with news coverage.

Yes, they do. The problem comes in with the number of unmarried Blacks having children out of wedlock. it is 80% for Blacks and 40% for Whites. There is where the underlying problems for the Black community begin. If there was White privilege the 40% of White unmarried women with children would be better off than the 20% of Blacks that have families with a mother and a father in the family unit, but that is not the case. Which brings us back to bad life choice decisions.

sorry are you altering my question?

I am asking are you saying blacks have the same success as white people (NOT CONDITIONALLY) not 'well if you factor out this and alter this and change this'

but if you like I can set you up for a different trap.

'why are blacks having more unmarried children then whites? what is the material differenator ?

Why can't he factor in conditions when your factoring in race as a condition. Your basic premise is race is the major factor then saying someone can't point to other glaring factors.

because I could say 'white are doing worse then blacks'

because you have to factor out all the married people.

no its a black and white question, are blacks (overall as a group) doing just as well as whites (overall as a group)?

and two...why are blacks so unmarried having kids?why more so then whites?

No, don't be dumb, race is 1 factor, so is underclass culture and being dependent on government entitlements, lack of responsibility, poor life decisions, poor role models, wide spread racism (white privilege) and white people falling for it (white guilt).

Yes they had a worse start because of racism but once the obstacles have been removed for 60 years and there are actual laws on the books that explicitly benefit black peopled, they have just failed elevate themselves due to cultural issues.

so your saying blacks as a group are not responsible, make poor life decisions, are poor role models, are underclassed and abuse government welfare?

why are they that way? because whites used to (but are not anymore) racist to them?

ok what should we (whites) do about the problem?

I'm saying they are responsible for their actions.

I don't know, ask a woman why she has multiple kids with different fathers that don't stick around, or why the men don't feel like its necessary to stick around, or why no one tells them to focus on less glamorous hard work avenues to success instead of selling drugs. Or if you believe that all white people are racists... its time to look in the mirror and realize how racist that statement is. Or if someone doesn't like you... it might not be because of your skin color?

Save for the highlighted portion most of this post is true. What you seem to fail to understand is that ALL of the factors you specify after race are LARGELY TIED TO RACE(second class citizenry, government entitlements, [reduced opportunities leading to] poor life decisions, etc.)

Also the obstacles have not been removed, they have been reduced. That's not the same thing. I don't know what else can be said to you @waahahah . You carry on as though the first 178 years of our country's history as it relates to race has been magically brushed away since the passing of Brown v. Board of Education.

That ingrained and institutional racism has been totally eradicated in the span of 1.5 generations. I truly wish I could view America via the lens you use.

Also, white privilege is not racism, it is a fact. Never have I had to argue over a fact more so than on this board.

Making poor life decisions isn't tied to race.. the fact you said that means your a racist.

Didn't you hear Martin Luther King ?

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

Also the obstacles have not been removed, they have been reduced. that's not the same thing. I don't know else can be said to you @waahahah . You carry on as though the first 178 years of our country's history as it relates to race has been magically brushed away since the passing of Brown v. Board of Education.

Martin Luther King got his dream, this isn't racism, this is largely prejudices against the underclass/gang culture that is entrenched in hip hop culture. People are just as prejudice against white biker gangs or people that live that culture. Race isn't the issue.

I'm not brushing it away, but people don't care about race any more.

That ingrained and institutional racism has been totally eradicated in the span of 1.5 generations. I truly wish I could view America via the lens you use.

Give me an example because the only racial laws on the books were designed to give blacks an unfair advantage. An example that aren't cops profiling based on statistical realities because that racial issue is not the cops being racist.

Also, white privilege is not racism, it is a fact. Never have I had to argue over a fact more so than on this board.

White Privilege is racism, your judging an entire persons life, choices and circumstances based on race. Its very literal racism. The underlying idea uses race to judge people.

Do you understand what racism is?