Is Donald Trump a racist?

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Tigerman950
Edited 3 months, 26 days ago

Poll: Is Donald Trump a racist? (94 votes)

Yes 57%
No 32%
Maybe 11%

When I was in high school back in 2010-2011, I remember believing Trump was racist after reading online about many of his racist controversies. And that was years before he ran for president.

Avatar image for joebones5000
#1 Posted by joebones5000 (2641 posts) -

lol. Someone voted no.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
#2 Edited by MirkoS77 (14375 posts) -

I don’t believe Trump’s a hardcore racist that hates anyone other than whites and actively wishes them harm, but I do believe he’s a racist nonetheless. Trump supporters love to attempt to paint the people accusing him of being a racist as claiming he embodies the worst of what racism has to offer in order to dismiss the accusation under absurdity, which it is because Trump’s nowhere near KKK/lynching levels of prejudice. But he doesn’t need to be for the claim to hold merit. He’s had many non-whites in his employ throughout the years (and even a colored girlfriend at one point). There’s tons of racists out there in the world who deal with other races all the time as their prejudices simply aren’t prioritized over their desire for opportunism. And man alive is Trump an opportunist if I’ve ever seen one.

From his past and considering how he holds certain attitudes and the things he’s stated towards people who aren’t white, from his endless anti-Obama rhetoric and posturing, to discriminating against black renters, to the New York five case, to vilifying immigrants, etc, any reasonable person would come to suspect him of racism and you’d have to be willingly ignorant or delusional (or in his cult) to reject it outright. I believe Trump looks at anyone who’s not white as inferior and with a large degree of contempt, but he doesn’t appear to me like he lives his life consumed by hatred borne of racism.

Avatar image for doomnukem3d
#3 Posted by DoomNukem3D (378 posts) -

Everyone is prejudiced whether they realise it or not.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#4 Edited by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@doomnukem3d said:

Everyone is prejudiced whether they realise it or not.

Assuming you mean racist then no...…...not everyone is. However those that are believe that. Congrats.

Avatar image for Nuck81
#5 Posted by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

@MirkoS77: you can be perfectly polite to minorities and still be racist

Avatar image for jcrame10
#6 Posted by jcrame10 (5153 posts) -

Anyone else see how the synagogue shooter this weekend was a white racist male who’s gone on record saying kill all Jews and citing hitler as an inspiration....yet Donald Trump tweeted thanking a border patrol agent for stopping him? Implying that the shooter was an illegal immigrant, until I researched the story myself I assumed the shooter was.

Avatar image for vfighter
#7 Posted by VFighter (5136 posts) -

@jcrame10: Did a border patrol agent stop the shooter though? If so what's wrong with Trump thanking him for doing so?

Avatar image for jcrame10
#8 Edited by jcrame10 (5153 posts) -

@vfighter: so it’s alright to provide adjectives for the person who stopped the attack but provide no context to the actual attacker? Trump is just using the case as agenda pushing for his wall

Avatar image for doomnukem3d
#9 Posted by DoomNukem3D (378 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: Prejudice and racism are not the same thing but a lot of people see prejudice as racism.

Avatar image for watercrack445
#10 Edited by watercrack445 (1740 posts) -

@jcrame10: I thought the shooter as white supremacist while reading that. I guess the border agent just happened to there.

Avatar image for Nuck81
#11 Posted by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

@vfighter: shooters gun jammed. He took off running.

Off duty agent fired at him as he ran hitting shooters car.

Agent called in the caught the shooter down the road

Avatar image for Stranger_36
#12 Posted by Stranger_36 (666 posts) -

Who cares?

Avatar image for n64dd
#13 Edited by N64DD (11970 posts) -

Quality threads.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#14 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@doomnukem3d said:

@LJS9502_basic: Prejudice and racism are not the same thing but a lot of people see prejudice as racism.

I know they aren't. Which is why I didn't use the word prejudice in my reply to you.

Avatar image for Litchie
#15 Posted by Litchie (24152 posts) -

Sure. He's a complete idiot and an american. Pretty safe to say he's somewhat of a racist.

Avatar image for npiet1
#16 Posted by npiet1 (2481 posts) -

@MirkoS77: yeah i think it's similar to what you said. I think he just stereotypes every minority until he has met them personally and they prove otherwise. Like if you dress or live like your poor and a minority he would definitely hold racist views against you without a second thought.

Avatar image for Serraph105
#17 Posted by Serraph105 (33977 posts) -

There's really no doubt that he is, yes. I mostly just feel bad for other people who refuse to see the truth of the matter that Trump presents to them openly on a continual basis.

Avatar image for uninspiredcup
#18 Posted by uninspiredcup (34415 posts) -

Na, about as much as you or me. People just try to paint him out racist for protecting his country from foreign criminals who exploit a system.

If only the UK had such a strong alpha male leader. Trump is a real man.

Avatar image for watercrack445
#19 Edited by watercrack445 (1740 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Na, about as much as you or me. People just try to paint him out racist for protecting his country from foreign criminals who exploit a system.

If only the UK had such a strong alpha male leader. Trump is a real man.

Like Nigel Farage who bailed out of the Brexit movement?

Avatar image for uninspiredcup
#20 Posted by uninspiredcup (34415 posts) -

@watercrack445 said:
@uninspiredcup said:

Na, about as much as you or me. People just try to paint him out racist for protecting his country from foreign criminals who exploit a system.

If only the UK had such a strong alpha male leader. Trump is a real man.

Like Nigel Farage who bail out of the Brexit movement?

< - Labour

Jeremy Corbyn will bring peace to the world.

Avatar image for speedytimsi
#21 Edited by speedytimsi (973 posts) -

Not really...it's more like he hates poor people more which is 95% of the world's population.

Avatar image for waahahah
#22 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

I don’t believe Trump’s a hardcore racist that hates anyone other than whites and actively wishes them harm, but I do believe he’s a racist nonetheless. Trump supporters love to attempt to paint the people accusing him of being a racist as claiming he embodies the worst of what racism has to offer in order to dismiss the accusation under absurdity, which it is because Trump’s nowhere near KKK/lynching levels of prejudice. But he doesn’t need to be for the claim to hold merit. He’s had many non-whites in his employ throughout the years (and even a colored girlfriend at one point). There’s tons of racists out there in the world who deal with other races all the time as their prejudices simply aren’t prioritized over their desire for opportunism. And man alive is Trump an opportunist if I’ve ever seen one.

From his past and considering how he holds certain attitudes and the things he’s stated towards people who aren’t white, from his endless anti-Obama rhetoric and posturing, to discriminating against black renters, to the New York five case, to vilifying immigrants, etc, any reasonable person would come to suspect him of racism and you’d have to be willingly ignorant or delusional (or in his cult) to reject it outright. I believe Trump looks at anyone who’s not white as inferior and with a large degree of contempt, but he doesn’t appear to me like he lives his life consumed by hatred borne of racism.

He's not any more "racist" than the average person, where in lieu of information about a person, everyone will make snap judgments about what they think based on race and culture. Which is why presentation is so important, why traditional black names are seen more favorably then ghetto black names.

Which isn't racism... most people don't seem to understand what racism is today.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#23 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@Litchie said:

Sure. He's a complete idiot and an american. Pretty safe to say he's somewhat of a racist.

Ah the hypocrisy...........

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#24 Posted by Jacanuk (18726 posts) -

Ahh, I see we have one of those "threads".

So

Avatar image for Nuck81
#25 Edited by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

@waahahah: nah man, you just pretty much described racism and racial profiling.

If you're not sure, you're probably racist.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#26 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@waahahah said:

He's not any more "racist" than the average person, where in lieu of information about a person, everyone will make snap judgments about what they think based on race and culture. Which is why presentation is so important, why traditional black names are seen more favorably then ghetto black names.

Which isn't racism... most people don't seem to understand what racism is today.

Those who comfort themselves believing everyone is racist are racists. Hint: Not everyone is a racist dude.

Avatar image for waahahah
#27 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@waahahah said:

He's not any more "racist" than the average person, where in lieu of information about a person, everyone will make snap judgments about what they think based on race and culture. Which is why presentation is so important, why traditional black names are seen more favorably then ghetto black names.

Which isn't racism... most people don't seem to understand what racism is today.

Those who comfort themselves believing everyone is racist are racists. Hint: Not everyone is a racist dude.

Apparently you missed the "racist". Trump isn't a racist. Most people aren't racist. Most people due have some prejudices against culture when combined with race. IE the distinction most people will make between traditional black names vs ghetto black names.

If you are in a position that requires you to be selective, that additional cultural information can and likely is taken into account. This is not racism. Trump is not a racist.

Avatar image for waahahah
#28 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

@waahahah: nah man, you just pretty much described racism and racial profiling.

If you're not sure, you're probably racist.

Racial profiling isn't racism... and unfortunately it works.

For instance more black people are felons. Obama made a mandate that to become a federal employee they couldn't use a criminal background check in the process. So they just went off of statistics... hiring less black people.

If you have statistics that show, there is a particular area, that has a large amount of crime, that is perpetrated mostly by a specific minority, why would you prioritize race equally in profiling? Its blatantly stupid and less effective.

This isn't racism.

Avatar image for Sevenizz
#29 Edited by Sevenizz (4026 posts) -

Naw, not at all. He gets labeled that because he’s for border control aka doing his job as the American president. He has no business looking after the livelihoods or prosperities of Mexicans or what have you. That’s their leaders issues and they continually fail their people due to poor leadership and corruption.

People easily forget that an American president’s number one job is looking after the people that elected him and the country they reside - Americans in America. Their skin colour is and should be irrelevant.

Avatar image for comp_atkins
#30 Posted by comp_atkins (35805 posts) -
@Stranger_36 said:

Who cares?

clearly not the minority of voters who chose him

Avatar image for Nuck81
#31 Posted by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

@waahahah: lol. Jesus.

You ever think that more minorities are in prison due to the inherited racism in our judicial and economic systems.

Nah, you probably don't.

Best to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're racist than to open it and remove all doubt.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
#32 Edited by MirkoS77 (14375 posts) -

@waahahah: where's the distinction drawn where you'd be willing to concede someone a racist?

Avatar image for Sevenizz
#33 Posted by Sevenizz (4026 posts) -

@MirkoS77: Oh, haven’t you heard? If you aren’t a Democrat and lean anywhere right - you’re a racist now.

Avatar image for Nuck81
#34 Posted by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

@Sevenizz: nah, but saying that being black makes people commit more crimes does.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
#35 Edited by MirkoS77 (14375 posts) -

@Sevenizz: despite the Left’s attempt at the perversion of the term, it still holds meaning.

Avatar image for zaryia
#36 Edited by Zaryia (9489 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:

Na, about as much as you or me. People just try to paint him out racist for protecting his country from foreign criminals who exploit a system.

If only the UK had such a strong alpha male leader. Trump is a real man.

I think he may have been racist in the past, not sure now. He's likely just playing to his partially racist base now for votes by creating scapegoats and fear-mongering as browns are an easy target for the slow southern folk.

Donald Trump Says Central Park Five Are Guilty, Despite DNA Evidence

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-says-central-park-five-are-guilty-despite-dna-n661941

‘No Vacancies’ for Blacks: How Donald Trump Got His Start, and Was First Accused of Bias

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#37 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@waahahah said:

He's not any more "racist" than the average person, where in lieu of information about a person, everyone will make snap judgments about what they think based on race and culture. Which is why presentation is so important, why traditional black names are seen more favorably then ghetto black names.

Which isn't racism... most people don't seem to understand what racism is today.

Those who comfort themselves believing everyone is racist are racists. Hint: Not everyone is a racist dude.

Apparently you missed the "racist". Trump isn't a racist. Most people aren't racist. Most people due have some prejudices against culture when combined with race. IE the distinction most people will make between traditional black names vs ghetto black names.

If you are in a position that requires you to be selective, that additional cultural information can and likely is taken into account. This is not racism. Trump is not a racist.

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

Avatar image for waahahah
#38 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

Everyone is prejudice to some extent. Otherwise self expression has no meaning.

Everyone puts people into categories because that's how we have developed simplifying and describing the world.

So people use their own prejudice for a culture, to express their own ideas/values.

@MirkoS77 said:

@waahahah: where's the distinction drawn where you'd be willing to concede someone a racist?

Racism is the belief your race is superior or another race is inferior.

Culture is at least backed up by actual values/ideas/behaviors so there is reason to avoid particular cultures... its just so happens that many cultures are linked to race. For instance rap culture is associated with black people and gang culture. So people make prejudice decisions based on that culture with that race. If a person is black and has adopted rap they'll more likely be associated with gang violence, and generally if your in a dark alley way... its not such a bad idea. However its harder to see white people that embody rap culture in the same way.. because that's not primarily how white violence manifests itself.

Granted white people tend to have better branding... the vast majority of white people don't associate with a violent culture, we don't where swastikas, if we enjoy biker culture your more likely to see a son's of anarchy vest then a Hell's angel vest. Mob culture tends to mimic wealthy culture. Even white music culture is more about doing drugs, being creepy towards woman, or pagan/viking nonsense.

Avatar image for waahahah
#39 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

How about listing some of that evidence.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#40 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166915 posts) -

@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

How about listing some of that evidence.

Sued twice for discrimination by the government. Comments about the Central Park 5 even after evidence provided proof of innocence, comments about a Mexican American judge, elevation of white nationalists in Charlottesville, referring to all Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. His words aren't hard to find nor is his history. But birds of a feather etc rarely condemn words/actions they agree with.

Avatar image for Tigerman950
#41 Posted by Tigerman950 (2503 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

How about listing some of that evidence.

Sued twice for discrimination by the government. Comments about the Central Park 5 even after evidence provided proof of innocence, comments about a Mexican American judge, elevation of white nationalists in Charlottesville, referring to all Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. His words aren't hard to find nor is his history. But birds of a feather etc rarely condemn words/actions they agree with.

Agree with everything you said here, except I must point out he was referring to just the illegal immigrants from Mexico, not all Mexican immigrants. Of course that doesn't justify what he said at all, but it's still important to be more accurate and not make it easier for his base to defend him.

That being said, I'd love for any Trump supporter (or anyone who thinks he isn't racist) to defend any of those points. The comments he made about the Mexican Judge Gonzalo Curiel (who was born and raised in the U.S...) are indisputably the textbook definition of racism. I invite ANYONE to change my mind about this.

Avatar image for waahahah
#42 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

How about listing some of that evidence.

Sued twice for discrimination by the government. Comments about the Central Park 5 even after evidence provided proof of innocence, comments about a Mexican American judge, elevation of white nationalists in Charlottesville, referring to all Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. His words aren't hard to find nor is his history. But birds of a feather etc rarely condemn words/actions they agree with.

Sued twice for racism? or his father which was the one who told agents not to rent to black people? And was it because a disdain for black people or the fact that he catered to racist white people? Part of that investigation into trump's discrimination had blacks referred to other trump buildings. Or maybe blacks have disproportionally committed crime... which would be a good reason to discriminate on housing... even if its to keep the majority of your residents happy.

Central Park 5? Oh he's racist because he doesn't believe the results the state came to? Or you know... public perception based on blacks committing crime disproportionally.

And no one is suggesting that blacks commit more crime because they are black... it largely has something to do maybe prior to those years things like jim crow... but that doesn't change how their behavior affects public perception.

There were more people then white nationalist at Charlottesville. He had a more accurate description than mostly all media. There were literally black people assaulting non white nationalist that day.

Referring to all Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. - this is factually incorrect. He referred to them as not the best. He literally says some of them are probably good people. You know how bad human trafficking is on the border? They bring kids because we'll let them into the country. Then they send the kids back to Mexico to cycle them back in. Cartels tell the migrants where to go to overwhelm border security and move drugs in other locations while the migrants are being detained. Do we even have remotely have the same issue on the north border? Is he wrongly picking out the southern border crisis.

So do you have anything where he's overtly racist or more just... circumstantial racial discrimination that overlap statistically with race difference and general public perception of race differences?

Avatar image for Tigerman950
#43 Edited by Tigerman950 (2503 posts) -
@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@waahahah said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Far more evidence exists as to trump's racism than not.

And most people don't have some prejudice......but like I said above........that's your prejudice wanting to believe others are similar.

How about listing some of that evidence.

Sued twice for discrimination by the government. Comments about the Central Park 5 even after evidence provided proof of innocence, comments about a Mexican American judge, elevation of white nationalists in Charlottesville, referring to all Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. His words aren't hard to find nor is his history. But birds of a feather etc rarely condemn words/actions they agree with.

Sued twice for racism? or his father which was the one who told agents not to rent to black people? And was it because a disdain for black people or the fact that he catered to racist white people? Part of that investigation into trump's discrimination had blacks referred to other trump buildings. Or maybe blacks have disproportionally committed crime... which would be a good reason to discriminate on housing... even if its to keep the majority of your residents happy.

I'll give you a chance to clarify this...are you actually saying it's OK to discriminate against blacks based on housing? Because if you are then you're definitely not helping your case in the slightest.

Avatar image for waahahah
#44 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@Tigerman950 said:

I'll give you a chance to clarify this...are you actually saying it's OK to discriminate against blacks based on housing? Because if you are then you're definitely not helping your case in the slightest.

I mean if all your paying customers will want to leave... sure its a reason to discriminate. Again the investigation that lead to the lawsuit weren't *all* trump buildings. Some buildings discriminated more while others had more larger black populations.

Have either of you actually read about these cases that are "proof" of his racism?

Avatar image for Tigerman950
#45 Posted by Tigerman950 (2503 posts) -
@waahahah said:
@Tigerman950 said:

I'll give you a chance to clarify this...are you actually saying it's OK to discriminate against blacks based on housing? Because if you are then you're definitely not helping your case in the slightest.

I mean if all your paying customers will want to leave... sure its a reason to discriminate. Again the investigation that lead to the lawsuit weren't *all* trump buildings. Some buildings discriminated more while others had more larger black populations.

Have either of you actually read about these cases that are "proof" of his racism?

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I can't believe I'm even having to say this, but assuming you aren't a troll....discriminating against ANYONE due to their race, for ANY particular reason, is racism. End of story. And you justifying such a practice, I'm sorry to say, is racism as well. There's NO excuse to deny someone their housing or any rights that are given to others based on their race, even if they're in a building full of racists that want them gone for that reason. So like I said before, you're not helping your case at all of defending Trump as not racist by making racist comments yourself. And yes, defending racial discrimination (which is what you're doing) IS racism. Sorry to break it to you.

Avatar image for MirkoS77
#46 Edited by MirkoS77 (14375 posts) -

@waahahah:

Culture is at least backed up by actual values/ideas/behaviors so there is reason to avoid particular cultures... its just so happens that many cultures are linked to race. For instance rap culture is associated with black people and gang culture. So people make prejudice decisions based on that culture with that race. If a person is black and has adopted rap they'll more likely be associated with gang violence, and generally if your in a dark alley way... its not such a bad idea. However its harder to see white people that embody rap culture in the same way.. because that's not primarily how white violence manifests itself.

Granted white people tend to have better branding... the vast majority of white people don't associate with a violent culture, we don't where swastikas, if we enjoy biker culture your more likely to see a son's of anarchy vest then a Hell's angel vest. Mob culture tends to mimic wealthy culture. Even white music culture is more about doing drugs, being creepy towards woman, or pagan/viking nonsense.

You can attempt all you want to try to obfuscate and excuse racism under cultural differences, and some people may be willing or gullible enough to buy into your bullshit, but I'm not one of them. Even if what you say is true, it's not incompatible with the term. By your own admission, many cultures are borne of traits of the race that has created and encompasses them. You cannot cite culture to exonerate or nullify attitudes of racism. If you hold prejudice against that culture, you hold prejudice against that race as the values, ideas, and behaviors are intrinsic to what has created it, and hence they must be viewed as synonymous.

Honestly, your position screams of racist apologetics and is exemplary of how Trump supporters love to try to rationalize their support of him.

Racism is the belief your race is superior or another race is inferior.

Right. So tell me, where is culture necessary to validate this definition? It's ludicrous to suggest that someone could be viewed as racist towards a minority in that person's culture but then suddenly have their prejudice conveniently deemed benign when that same minority is viewed in the context of another circumstance stemming from the predispositions of that race. That's entirely irrelevant. You are either racist, or you are not.

For as much as the Left can be claimed to pervert the term racism and toss it at anyone under the sun they disagree with, hell if those on the Right aren't desperately, constantly jumping through intellectual hula-hoops trying to excuse the inexcusable so they can sleep better at night. It'd be far more respectable if many Trump supporters would just come out of the closet and have enough courage to live explicitly by their convictions instead of attempting to try grasp onto the rapidly fading pretense that their party once held onto until Trump arrived.

Avatar image for waahahah
#47 Posted by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@Tigerman950 said:
@waahahah said:
@Tigerman950 said:

I'll give you a chance to clarify this...are you actually saying it's OK to discriminate against blacks based on housing? Because if you are then you're definitely not helping your case in the slightest.

I mean if all your paying customers will want to leave... sure its a reason to discriminate. Again the investigation that lead to the lawsuit weren't *all* trump buildings. Some buildings discriminated more while others had more larger black populations.

Have either of you actually read about these cases that are "proof" of his racism?

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I can't believe I'm even having to say this, but assuming you aren't a troll....discriminating against ANYONE due to their race, for ANY particular reason, is racism. End of story. And you justifying such a practice, I'm sorry to say, is racism as well. There's NO excuse to deny someone their housing or any rights that are given to others based on their race, even if they're in a building full of racists that want them gone for that reason. So like I said before, you're not helping your case at all of defending Trump as not racist by making racist comments yourself. And yes, defending racial discrimination (which is what you're doing) IS racism. Sorry to break it to you.

Then you have no idea how statistics works... or racism.

If you have 100 planes to choose from, and all the white planes, based on real world statistics, would have a 1/1000 chance of busting into flames vs all the black planes 1/500... would you would most certainly discrimination against an arbitrary color. Because you know the black planes are bad, or even if you know its a statistical anomoly, you know your customers aren't going to buy tickets for flights with black planes.

If people just outright refused to buy plane tickets from black planes even though they had an equal chance in bursting into fire as the white planes... that would be racism.

Avatar image for Tigerman950
#48 Posted by Tigerman950 (2503 posts) -
@waahahah said:
@Tigerman950 said:
@waahahah said:
@Tigerman950 said:

I'll give you a chance to clarify this...are you actually saying it's OK to discriminate against blacks based on housing? Because if you are then you're definitely not helping your case in the slightest.

I mean if all your paying customers will want to leave... sure its a reason to discriminate. Again the investigation that lead to the lawsuit weren't *all* trump buildings. Some buildings discriminated more while others had more larger black populations.

Have either of you actually read about these cases that are "proof" of his racism?

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I can't believe I'm even having to say this, but assuming you aren't a troll....discriminating against ANYONE due to their race, for ANY particular reason, is racism. End of story. And you justifying such a practice, I'm sorry to say, is racism as well. There's NO excuse to deny someone their housing or any rights that are given to others based on their race, even if they're in a building full of racists that want them gone for that reason. So like I said before, you're not helping your case at all of defending Trump as not racist by making racist comments yourself. And yes, defending racial discrimination (which is what you're doing) IS racism. Sorry to break it to you.

Then you have no idea how statistics works... or racism.

If you have 100 planes to choose from, and all the white planes, based on real world statistics, would have a 1/1000 chance of busting into flames vs all the black planes 1/500... would you would most certainly discrimination against an arbitrary color. Because you know the black planes are bad, or even if you know its a statistical anomoly, you know your customers aren't going to buy tickets for flights with black planes.

If people just outright refused to buy plane tickets from black planes even though they had an equal chance in bursting into fire as the white planes... that would be racism.

I guess I'll put it this way: let's say you were a landlord of an apartment complex, and you had one black tenant who never did anything wrong, always paid his rent on time, never had any issues, etc. But one day a few racist tenants told you they didn't like living in the same building as the black man because they assume he's going to commit a crime of some kind based on the statistics you've mentioned. They make this presumption purely based on his race, and not his actual history or character. Do you evict the black man, or let those few racists leave your apartment complex?

I think your answer to this will pretty much tell me all I need to know.

Avatar image for waahahah
#49 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@Tigerman950 said:

I guess I'll put it this way: let's say you were a landlord of an apartment complex, and you had one black tenant who never did anything wrong, always paid his rent on time, never had any issues, etc. But one day a few racist tenants told you they didn't like living in the same building as the black man because they assume he's going to commit a crime of some kind based on the statistics you've mentioned. They make this presumption purely based on his race, and not his actual history or character. Do you evict the black man, or let those few racists leave your apartment complex?

I think your answer to this will pretty much tell me all I need to know.

Its a stupid way to put it and irrelevant. Its a 50/50 choice. Not even close to any example we are talking about. What if all my other white customers dislike the racist? I tell the racist to eat a bag of dicks.

We are talking about, here is an unknown black person and I have an apartment with 99% white people that dislike black people. So I turn him away, and refer him to my other building that has 30% black population.

Did I just make the wrong choice? This is the result of the investigation into the trump apartments while Donald Trump owned them.

What If I have 100 applicants and 20 of them are black... and black people commit theft at something like 2:1 ratio compared to the other 80. Should I take the time to do background checks and get referrals on any of the 20? When I only have like 10 open apartments... why should I prioritize any of them if I have a 20% chance of getting someone that will likely cause trouble vs 10%.

Avatar image for waahahah
#50 Edited by waahahah (2462 posts) -

@MirkoS77 said:

@waahahah:

Culture is at least backed up by actual values/ideas/behaviors so there is reason to avoid particular cultures... its just so happens that many cultures are linked to race. For instance rap culture is associated with black people and gang culture. So people make prejudice decisions based on that culture with that race. If a person is black and has adopted rap they'll more likely be associated with gang violence, and generally if your in a dark alley way... its not such a bad idea. However its harder to see white people that embody rap culture in the same way.. because that's not primarily how white violence manifests itself.

Granted white people tend to have better branding... the vast majority of white people don't associate with a violent culture, we don't where swastikas, if we enjoy biker culture your more likely to see a son's of anarchy vest then a Hell's angel vest. Mob culture tends to mimic wealthy culture. Even white music culture is more about doing drugs, being creepy towards woman, or pagan/viking nonsense.

You can attempt all you want to try to obfuscate and excuse racism under cultural differences, and some people may be willing or gullible enough to buy into your bullshit, but I'm not one of them. Even if what you say is true, it's not incompatible with the term. By your own admission, many cultures are borne of traits of the race that has created and encompasses them. You cannot cite culture to exonerate or nullify attitudes of racism. If you hold prejudice against that culture, you hold prejudice against that race as the values, ideas, and behaviors are intrinsic to what has created it, and hence they must be viewed as synonymous.

Honestly, your position screams of racist apologetics and is exemplary of how Trump supporters love to try to rationalize their support of him.

Racism is the belief your race is superior or another race is inferior.

Right. So tell me, where is culture necessary to validate this definition? It's ludicrous to suggest that someone could be viewed as racist towards a minority in that person's culture but then suddenly have that definition negated (and conveniently deemed benign) when that same person is viewed in the context of another culture stemming from the predispositions of that race. That's entirely irrelevant. You are either racist, or you are not.

For as much as the Left can be claimed to pervert the term racism, hell if those on the Right aren't desperately jumping through intellectual hula-hoops trying to excuse the inexcusable so they can sleep better at night. It'd be far more respectable if Trump supporters would just come out of the closet and live explicitly by their convictions instead of attempting to grasp onto the rapidly deteriorating pretense that their party once held until Trump arrived.

Culture is not necessary to validate the definition of racism. Race is independent of culture. Races can have numerous and distinct cultures, and most likely those cultures will espouse different values... and people will respond different to those values.

People aren't racist against a culture, culture isn't a race. More likely they might be bigoted against a culture, or have valid reasons to dislike a culture. Culture results in concrete values and behavior.

Case in point. Rap culture vs Geek culture. These are going to be looked at differently regardless of race. Rap culture is celebrates gang culture while geek culture produces software engineers and shit like facebook. But I guarantee if I talk to any one about which is better they'll call me a racist because they can infer "black culture vs white culture" because of how highly correlated those cultures are to race. And then some asshole will try to claim I'm obfuscating racism with culture trying to explain the difference.