How do people try to explain away racism.

@Sevenizz: Sure, racism isn't a problem in the USA and yet hate crimes are rising year on year against a backdrop of dog-whistle politics.

Why bother with the Unite the Right groups? Well they committed murder, that's a pretty big deal to me anyway. You don't think it's noteworthy that you have people openly marching under the swastika and donning the kkk hoods on the streets of America in 2018?

Antifa, another small group among the over 300 population have themselves been designated as a domestic terrorist organisation and are taken seriously, so why not these extremists too? Instead the POTUS defends them as 'very fine people.'

Furthermore, if you think they have no power, money or media support behind them then you're turning a blind eye to the whole alt-right movement in general.

It’s scary that someone had to remind people.

@mandzilla: You know what type of hate crimes those figures include? If you guessed anti semitism, you’d be correct. Multiple groups are responsible for this. Before Trump, Muslims were the highest immigrants coming into the US - legally. Put two and two together and that explains a lot. Also hate crime laws have changed so that also is included in recent statistics. Pretty soon, misgendering someone will be considered a hate crime.

You can whine all you want about the far right and the police violence, but black on black crime has exploded and yet there isn’t a single group protesting this. Not a one.

Nazis and the KKK have no power, money, or infrastructure in the US. That’s simply a fact. You watch too much CNN - a joke of their industry.

Let me ask you. I am a Trump supporter and I support the president’s poicies. Am I alt right?

is it satire? cause there's a difference between comedy and racism. You can tell racist jokes and not be racist.

Yeah I don't mind though. You can tell when he get's angry which makes me laugh. I love to debate and would love to do it face to face with him. It would be pretty interesting.

I just find it ironic that people spent years fighting segregation and now they have all ______(minority) colleges where ONLY people of X race can attend.

LOL

@tryit: "I know some racists who are nice people"

Didn't you give Trump grief for saying something similar to this? Lol

There's a few thousand still left in the country, mostly a few southern states. They really don't pose a huge threat to the country. I do know places around me that I wouldn't take my black friends to though, just out of caution. But same can be said about certain areas in big cities where whites shouldn't go.

And sevinizz is right, it was 2 Augusts ago. Small detail though.

Jewish people are the most targeted group in the USA, but the figures also include anti-Black, anti-homosexuality, anti-transgender, anti-Islamic and anti-disability hate crimes, among others. You're right multiple groups are responsible, but what do you mean by "put two and two together and that explains a lot". Are you suggesting that Muslim immigrants are responsible for the majority of anti-semitic hate crimes? Considering that those of Asian ethnicity account for a mere 0.7% of hate crimes in the US, compared to 50.7% committed by White offenders I find that hard to believe.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/topic-pages/offenders

Immigrants are far less likely to commit crime than native citizens in general, never mind hate crimes. Also, why wouldn't misgendering someone be considered a hate crime? That would fall under the anti-trans category.

Well I never whined about police violence, but it is a major issue as is black on black crime and crime as a whole. Black Lives Matter receives much positive and negative media coverage, however there are many other grassroots organisations protesting against crime in black neighbourhoods which you never hear about.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/opinion/black-activists-dont-ignore-crime.html

Here's an excerpt from the article which makes a good point on the conflation of anti-violence protest groups with Black Lives Matter:

"They (the organisations I mentioned above which protest black on black crime) share at least one main political message: Efforts to keep young people away from violence would be made more effective by addressing shoddy schools, the lack of good jobs, the easy access to guns and the neglect of urban communities. State and national politicians and groups — not local organizers — simplify this complex advocacy on crime and criminal justice into pro- or anti-police narratives."

In terms of Nazis and the KKK having no power or influence, if that is the case then why is it so hard for some of those in the current administration to condemn their actions, because they account for a certain portion of Trump's base? He can't afford to lose their votes, and so won't go against them publicly. In this way many of the more extreme groups which fall under the alt-right umbrella have a certain degree of political influence, which is why so many have felt comfortable enough to come out of the woodwork in recent years. As to CNN being a good news channel or not, I don't typically watch American media so can't comment on that.

No of course not, being right-wing and being alt-right are not synonymous positions. The same way I wouldn't associate all left-wingers with Antifa.

Yeah I understand they're a minority in the grand scheme of things. It's just surprising to me that the KKK is still a thing in 2018, or that people would disrespect their grandfather's sacrifices by goose stepping under the swastika flag. Don't get me wrong though, I condemn all violent groups whatever their race or political persuasion.

Ahh yes, my bad. You're right, I should have said last year instead of last August.

So giving one race an advantage in college because their race was treated horribly is racism, but making jokes about stereotypes on race is not?

hand to god if the person who made the jokes he did in that show was white the country would have exploded in fury

I most likely absolutely did!

I likely said 'he is a racist'

I am saying 'I am a racist'

consistent

I never said its bad, I just said he is.

If giving advantages to one race in college because their race was enslaved is considered 'racist' then I am proud to be called a racist

pure horseshit frankly.

if giving a race an advantage in college over another race because of past serious offensives is 'racism', then making jokes about a race is also racism

but here is the most important part you are missing....ready for it....pay attention closely....

the LABEL is meaningless.

what matters is justification, is one justified and the other not? REGARDLESS of what fucking label you call it. dont argue over semantics.

@tryit: Making jokes about a race is racism. Glad you finally admitted you're racist btw. Just for the record, I don't think anyone should be treated differently or given free scholarships based on the past.

what do you mean 'finally'? I have been saying that I am a racist for friggin months now!

and regarding Trump I most likely said he was a racist, I likely did not say that racism is in of itself by default bad.

What IS bad however, is the Right trying to use the label to justify evil and inflict pain on to others by avoiding the substance and just focusing on the label. Its not good enough to just say 'racist' or 'not racist' you have to explain why the action in question specifically is bad...and 'cuz its racist bro' isnt good enough

it doesnt matter what makes you a racist or not, it doesnt matter if you are a racist or not.

what matters is what SPECIFIC policies or actions you agree with...FULL STOP.

that is called substance over labels.

the label doesnt matter, the substance DOES.

If you think black people should be hung by a rope then that makes you 'fill in the blank with whatever word makes you happy'

if you think black people should be given a slight advantage in college because they were once slaves in the not to distant past that makes you 'fill in the word with whatever doesnt offend you'

however those two things are RADICALLY different ON SUBSTANCE..and that substance DOES MATTER and pretending they are the same thing by drawing equivalency with the label is being fucking evil.

the 'label' does NOT make them equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

A common way for this fallacy to be perpetuated is one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.^[

False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. The pattern of the fallacy is often as such: "If A is the set of c and d, and B is the set of d and e, then since they both contain d, A and B are equal". d is not required to exist in both sets; only a passing similarity is required to cause this fallacy to be used.

@tryit: did your parents never teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

no...

but what does that have to do with False equivalence or are you just afraid to address it?

oh and providing a method of reconciliation for wrong done is not 'a wrong' in the first place, regardless of the label.

You dont beat someone up and then just throw them out of the car and say 'sorry bro' and drive off, crying how its unfair that he didnt have to pay for the gas

providing a method of reconciliation for wrong done is not 'a wrong' in the first place, regardless of the label.

its not wrong to provide reconciliation. you just want to make it appear that it is by methods of false equivalence tactics.

So for example, if i beat the crap out of you, leave you with a bloody nose and a large medical bill me saying 'sorry bro' and walking off is bad.

me providing help for your medical bill is NOT bad.

@tryit: it is wrong when. It happened to everyone but because of cultural choices of the blacks keep them in lower class not because of slavery or lynching. They want an advantage over other races when there are people from different races struggling to get out if the same thing. It wasn't just them that the wrong was done to, so why are they the only ones getting the advantage? It's not a false equivalence at all. I've made my point yet you keep bringing up random things instead of making a proper rebuttal. "I know I'm right but I can't prove it" is all I'm hearing from you.

If I beat the crap out of you and you end up with a large medical bill you are saying its wrong of me to try and help pay for that medial bill

I do not for a second believe you feel that way but that is effectively what you are saying

@tryit: you are comparing interpersonal things with something that's not. It doesn't work. It's not even close to what I'm saying. You need to learn to separate social and individual issues. You do it to much for me not to point out. Really think, I want this to be a proper debate so it's not so one sided.

its called reconciliation

what have we done for the black race as a reconciliation for enslaving them? metaphorically you are suggesting its wrong to do anything at all as reconciliation other than letting them out of the car.

THAT is bad, regardless of if you call it racist or not

@tryit: what about reconciliation for the Chinese or the white family's that where affected? If we reconcile for everyone id be on the other side of the fence, but we don't majority of the blacks play victim instead of doing something about it.

Racism... problem is its so easy to be labeled one. Distrust i think is what creates one. Like for example, if someone insults you. Some classics, we are bleeping all your white women etc. The question is are you suppose to not say anything, because would that be racist to self defense?. Like you could say something along the line, screw you wool head.

Either case, classical form of racism. Which is what i would define racism as is when you see your race or other races as inferior in some way. Like thats i think is the classical form that you just dont see them as humans. USA largest demographics is caucasian, think 70% if i am not wrong. So left wingers are also dumb on some issues like "privilege". Well... so if you live in a African country... well no shock. You are most likely not gonna find many people who look like you if you dont have lot of people that look like you. Thats called reality, like what is their solution here?. Equal opportunities and having laws against racial discrimination in terms of work place or public is the most simple effective way. The problem is i feel people who are racists dont try to talk with people. Like they just are most likely just on the internet, seeing all the hate dribble back and forth. And just are not actually going out and saying hello.

Like that is their problem.

I think racism is best summed up by Bill Burr here. It is quiet... people look around and see if the coast is clear. Because the ones who are racists, is usually just that 1% of people who just are loud, there is always that one guy. Like i dont think it cant be summed up any better right here. Its so true.

2:06 - 2:37

well its a fair question! lets talk about it.

but the problem is you are suggesting that reconciliation is not a question but rather that reconciliation is BAD..that is RACIST. any form of reconciliation is RACIST and bad. Not that its neutral and something worth discussing like non trollish human beings with some level of dignity

see the difference?

seeing something as impractical or not reasonable to do is RADICALLY different from calling it 'racist' and thus implying its 'bad' by default period end of story

@tryit: I think affirmative action is racist because it's putting blacks at a huge advantage compared to other races who struggle just as hard (not per capita though). It's pretty much the definition of racism. Reconciliation isn't bad if it happens to all that where affected but it doesn't. It picks and chooses. It racially divides instead of bring people together. Race should not matter unless it's for medical reasons. That's the only time race matters. Any other time you racial divide it's probably racist because it's either going to be an advantage or disadvantage for the individual. Which again is racist by the definition.

a few things

1. just drop the $%^&*()_ 'racist' term because that means nothing to me. Racist <> bad to me. just drop it forget about it and never think about it again. I dont care if something is racist or not, i care if something is bad or not. if you think its bad then just say 'i think its bad' do NOT say 'its racist' because to me 'racist <> 'bad' if you need a drill to get that thru you head then fine..use a $%^&*( drill because its really pissing me off. got it?

2. I dont think it gives them a 'huge' advantage. HOWEVER, if you are willing to drop the phrase 'racist' I am willing to listen on exactly how you think its a 'huge advantage' but if you insist on using the term racist to describe your point then you can go **** yourself and I am not interested in hearing your reasoning if you continue to use that word...got it?

3. I am actually open to an honest conversation about how addirmative action might be antiquated and in need of a revision, but I am NOT willing to have that conversation if the right continues with this 'racist' labeling bullshit. as far as I am concerned if they keep that up they can take moderation and stick it up their ass

@tryit: 1. I'm not right. I'm a left leaning centrist by definition. Complex issues require complex answers. Something the left and right don't really do but just want change.

2. It's racist by definition not because it's bad to me. However I'll stop for now. It puts them at advantage because they don't have to work as hard or get the same grades. There's already plenty of scholarships for blacks that everyone else doesn't get.

3. For affirmative action to work it should go by income not race.

then you and the Right can stick it up your ass.

again.. I am willing to talk about it because I do think affirmative action is antiquated and needs modifications but anyone who hangs on to as 'racist' can go **** themselves as far as I am concerned and I hope they never get to go to college or ever be in charge of anything and I have ZERO problem with them being marginalized until they start to show some level of mature understanding

lesson of the past is not learned until you and your friends get passed it.

peroid

end

of

story

@tryit: how is it not racist then? Are you so sure that it is I who doesn't have a mature level of understanding. When you are telling people to go f#@K themselves, shove things in their ads. or calling them a right wing when they have reasonable rebuttals that you cannot dispute other than pulling things like semantics etc. You also get very angry. Doesn't sound very mature to me.

it being racist is not RELEVANT to it being bad or not.

get over it, conversation is absolutely not happening until you drop the racist rant.

I could find middle ground but if you people havent grown the **** up then you dont deserve a break frankly

Usually if you think Racism is a major factor in your day to day life its because you are a loser. It's an easy excuse that any loser can use and one that is perpetuated by the media to keep you dumb and dependent.

They want you to think you are a victim and the ability to pull yourself out of your own rut is completely out of your control. They want you to focus on something that virtually doesn't matter so you will ignore everything that does.

@tryit: yes it is racism is bad. We never grew up? You can't even rebuttal. You throw hissy fits online. You want to by definition unless it doesn't fit your narrative. You call people names lol.

I know its racist, but its not bad.

again....on the question of affirmative action I am willing to be open minded EXECPT for when I person equates all forms of reconciliation related to race as 'bad' period. that level of immaturity is unacceptable and just prooves to me that such a 'race' is not worthy of leadership.

so suck it and cry

@blackhairedhero: pretty much. If you say anything against this you are put in the "right" category.

@tryit: haha why do you prove my points for me. Than act like it never happened. Serious question are you on the spectrum?

oh grow some balls and get over it.

just refocus the conversation back to the topic when I do that and jsut ignore it. stop the crying.

dont play the victim

'serious question'

are you being honest when you say that is a 'serious question' or should I put your honesty into dispute?

@tryit: no serious question means serious question or I would of just wrote are you autistic? I've asked you questions like this before because it helps my understanding of you. Something that has developed pretty well compared to everyone else I've met online.

when you say you are asking me a 'serious question' I do not believe you are being honest with me.

I think you are liar

BUT..when you are ready we can at least try to get back on topic.

@tryit: never in my life have I played "victim" have you read what I wrote. I'm against it.

when you are ready to get back on topic of the conversation let me know.

in the meantime consider me out

I can help with this question

What is reconciliation?

I do not accept that any form of reconciliation to a race that was impoverished is by default 'bad'

To answer this question they 'explain it away' by suggesting any form of reconciliation for a race based on past 'injustices' done against that race, as 'racism' and thus those who are trying to make things right are the ones who are the racists.

that is how they do it, they do that and expect some form of positive result by using that tactic....because they are stupid

@tryit: no I'm done. You've answer the question I really wanted the answer to(as well previous post). It has shown me that your not bright enough to have a serious conversation with. Your get to emotional invested on topics instead of applying reason.

bye then