Here we ego again - big shooting in el paso, texas. Disgusting.

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joebones5000

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#1 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

One of those "guns everywhere" states

18 confirmed dead so far.

It's clear that Americans cannot and should not be trusted with guns.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/police-el-paso-issue-report-active-shooter-173500204--abc-news-topstories.html

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Serraph105

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#2 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 34106 Posts

Texas, a very red, gun loving state where "everyone has a gun" had a mass shooting in a store that famously sells guns, and 15 people still died. The shooter was not one of the people who died.

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Zaryia

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#3  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts

Hearing rumors he is a white supremacist, wanted Mexicans dead.

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn’t Like ‘Race Mixing’

Patrick Crusius allegedly left behind a racist manifesto before killing at least 15 people at Cielo Vista Mal

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-shooter-patrick-crusius/

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joebones5000

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#4 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

One of Trump's "fine people", I suppose...

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#5  Edited By mattbbpl  Online
Member since 2006 • 17527 Posts

They need more good guys with guns.

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#6 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3171 Posts

Remember guys it's not the time to talk about gun control.

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burntbyhellfire

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#7 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 456 Posts

@zaryia said:

Hearing rumors he is a white supremacist, wanted Mexicans dead.

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn’t Like ‘Race Mixing’

Patrick Crusius allegedly left behind a racist manifesto before killing at least 15 people at Cielo Vista Mal

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-shooter-patrick-crusius/

and those rumors turned out to be complete BS the last time you tried spreading them.. how about waiting for actual facts first?

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Zaryia

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#8 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@burntbyhellfire said:
@zaryia said:

Hearing rumors he is a white supremacist, wanted Mexicans dead.

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn’t Like ‘Race Mixing’

Patrick Crusius allegedly left behind a racist manifesto before killing at least 15 people at Cielo Vista Mal

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-shooter-patrick-crusius/

and those rumors turned out to be complete BS the last time you tried spreading them.. how about waiting for actual facts first?

When was this?

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#9 mattbbpl  Online
Member since 2006 • 17527 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

They need more good guys with guns.

This guy agrees:

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#10  Edited By iwilson1296
Member since 2005 • 2499 Posts

@joebones5000: so what’s the message you’re going for here?, should we disarm everyone that legally owns a gun?

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#11 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 456 Posts

i bet the shooter was taking, or missed a dose of his SSRI medications

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#12 SaltSlasher
Member since 2015 • 1346 Posts

I'm all for gun control, and would gladly hand over my single non-hunting gun that is more of a antique.

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#13 burntbyhellfire
Member since 2019 • 456 Posts

@saltslasher said:

I'm all for gun control, and would gladly hand over my single non-hunting gun that is more of a antique.

you'll be handing in the rest too

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#14  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14542 Posts

I don't wish it, but sometimes I think that what needs to happen in this country is a mass shooting on a scale unprecedented such as 9/11. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people killed in one go. We've become so numb to a few dozen at a time that an event is needed that is so bad that it would create such outcry that it would force action. Even then though, I doubt it would work. Sandy Hook changed nothing.

Sigh.

We're basically fucked, this is never going to stop. RIP to the victims and their families. Thoughts and prayers and all that...

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#15 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@burntbyhellfire said:

i bet the shooter was taking, or missed a dose of his SSRI medications

The suspect in a shooting that left at least 15 people dead at an El Paso Walmart may have posted and liked anti-immigrant leaning remarks on what appears to be his Twitter account.

Could be a fake account, but it's all leaning that direction.

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#16 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

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#17 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

It's 3 issues. Social (extremism), mental health, and guns.

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#18  Edited By Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@zaryia:

And where do the violent tendencies start?

Id combine social amd mental, btw

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Xabiss

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#19 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country. Quit looking at the tool being used and actually look at the source. The people doing this are mentally ill and have underlining issues. We need to stop trying to fix things with our emotions and fix things that are the actual problem.

Just like quit electing officials over emotional issues and start looking for officials that are looking at the source of the issues in this country. I know that stuff is boring, but rifles kill less people then people using cell phones in their vehicle and drinking and driving. No one care about this stuff because the majority of Americans do it. They only care about the stuff they don't like or understand.

Hell Shannon Watts even Twitted this trash:

I am sorry to tell her. You can not go into any store in Texas and buy a rifle without doing a required background check. Quit using false narratives to try and push your agenda. Even then laws will not prevent someone with mental health issues from killing. They will just find another means of doing it. We need to focus on that!

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Zaryia

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#20 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country.

And guns and extremism.

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#21 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@zaryia said:
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

It's 3 issues. Social (extremism), mental health, and guns.

It is two of those things, the tool guns has nothing to really do with it. We had guns 30+ years ago and we didn't have the issues of mass shootings like we do today. Also Social(extremism) has a lot of ties to people who has mental health issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071634/

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#22 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@saltslasher said:

I'm all for gun control, and would gladly hand over my single non-hunting gun that is more of a antique.

Why stop at rifles. Rifles do not kill near the amount of people as handguns do:

FBI breakdown

  • In 2016, there were 11,004 gun homicides (65% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 30% other/unknown type)[75]
  • In 2014, there were 8,124 gun homicides (68% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 25% other/unknown type).[9]
  • In 2010, there were 8,775 gun homicides (68% handguns, 8% rifle/shotgun, 23% other/unknown type).[12]
  • In 2001, there were 8,890 gun homicides (78% handguns, 10% rifle/shotguns, 12% other/unknown type).[76]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Look they even combine rifles with shotguns. Seriously this is a mental health issue period. Nothing to do with the tool.

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#23  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country.

And guns and extremism.

No it is mental health issues period! Extremism has tendencies to have mental health in it. You fix that and people will not want to use the tool to kill.

You get rid of guns and don't fix mental health you will still have issues. They will just find a new tool to use.

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Zaryia

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#24 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@Xabiss said:
@saltslasher said:

I'm all for gun control, and would gladly hand over my single non-hunting gun that is more of a antique.

Why stop at rifles. Rifles do not kill near the amount of people as handguns do:

FBI breakdown

  • In 2016, there were 11,004 gun homicides (65% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 30% other/unknown type)[75]
  • In 2014, there were 8,124 gun homicides (68% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 25% other/unknown type).[9]
  • In 2010, there were 8,775 gun homicides (68% handguns, 8% rifle/shotgun, 23% other/unknown type).[12]
  • In 2001, there were 8,890 gun homicides (78% handguns, 10% rifle/shotguns, 12% other/unknown type).[76]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Look they even combine rifles with shotguns. Seriously this is a mental health issue period. Nothing to do with the tool.

Indeed, we should increase gun control!

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Zaryia

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#25  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country.

And guns and extremism.

No it is mental health issues period! Extremism has tendencies to have mental health in it. You fix that and people will not want to use the tool to kill.

You get rid of guns and don't fix mental health you will still have issues. They will just find a new tool to use.

If you increase gun control you will have less gun issues. Same goes for combating extremism and mental health. Yes there are components of mental health inside extremism, but also social components. Like shutting down extremist organizations and social media.

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#26 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country.

And guns and extremism.

No it is mental health issues period! Extremism has tendencies to have mental health in it. You fix that and people will not want to use the tool to kill.

You get rid of guns and don't fix mental health you will still have issues. They will just find a new tool to use.

If you increase gun control you will have less gun issues. Same goes for combating extremism and mental health. Yes there are components of mental health inside extremism, but also social components. Like shutting down extremist organizations and social media.

But if all you do is gun control which is all I ever hear from the screaming left. Then crazy will just find a new means to do their crazy deeds. BTW... I am all for shutting down anything extremist I don't give a damn what it is, but also those types of people need help. Again shutting down their tool does not fix the issue, just like guns are just a tool.

Or are you talking about social media as a whole? I do think that is an issue in our country and I also believe 24 hour news channels are an issue also.

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#27 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167369 Posts

Gun culture sucks.......

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Xabiss

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#28  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:
@saltslasher said:

I'm all for gun control, and would gladly hand over my single non-hunting gun that is more of a antique.

Why stop at rifles. Rifles do not kill near the amount of people as handguns do:

FBI breakdown

  • In 2016, there were 11,004 gun homicides (65% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 30% other/unknown type)[75]
  • In 2014, there were 8,124 gun homicides (68% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 25% other/unknown type).[9]
  • In 2010, there were 8,775 gun homicides (68% handguns, 8% rifle/shotgun, 23% other/unknown type).[12]
  • In 2001, there were 8,890 gun homicides (78% handguns, 10% rifle/shotguns, 12% other/unknown type).[76]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Look they even combine rifles with shotguns. Seriously this is a mental health issue period. Nothing to do with the tool.

Indeed, we should increase gun control!

Again the tool has nothing to do with this. It is the source and mental health/extremist today. Gun control will not help do anything with these issues. They will just find another means to cause harm. I will also say that Republicans are one of the many causes to the mental health crisis in this country. They defunded a ton of MHMRs and social programs in the 80s. That is one of the reasons I believe we are seeing a rise in these types of shootings.

Again everyone focuses on guns because they just don't like them period. They have never taken the time to learn about them and understand the actual laws. I was pro 2 amendment my entire adult life, but never owned a gun. I was arguing with someone about it and they called me out and I told them you know what you are right.

So I went out bought guns, rifles, and shotguns. I hit the range and took classes over all of this. I went to gun shows and found out you can't buy a gun from a vendor at the show without a background check. I have never bought a weapon were I didn't get a back ground check.

To be honest I bought so many guns over a period of time they hit me with a waiting period once. Trust me I see a ton of misinformation from people on guns all the time because they don't know anything, hell even the media does it.

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#29 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@Xabiss:

Lol@blaming republicans. No.

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#30 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 44781 Posts

Sad. I'll never understand how people can come up with the idea to kill.

If people have a solid plan to take all the guns (couldn't care less about the amendment), I'd be all for it.

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Zaryia

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#31  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 9866 Posts
@Xabiss said:

Again the tool has nothing to do with this. It is the source and mental health/extremist today. Gun control will not help do anything with these issues. They will just find another means to cause harm. I will also say that Republicans are one of the many causes to the mental health crisis in this country. They defunded a ton of MHMRs and social programs in the 80s. That is one of the reasons I believe we are seeing a rise in these types of shootings.

Again everyone focuses on guns because they just don't like them period. They have never taken the time to learn about them and understand the actual laws. I was pro 2 amendment my entire adult life, but never owned a gun. I was arguing with someone about it and they called me out and I told them you know what you are right.

So I went out bought guns, rifles, and shotguns. I hit the range and took classes over all of this. I went to gun shows and found out you can't buy a gun from a vendor at the show without a background check. I have never bought a weapon were I didn't get a back ground check.

To be honest I bought so many guns over a period of time they hit me with a waiting period once.

1. This is false. Gun Control will help.

Review of More Than 130 Studies Provides Powerful Evidence That Gun Control Saves Lives

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives

2. We also need to improve our mental health. Correct.

3. We also need to reduce and combat extremist. Especially far right terrorism which accounts for most of this domestic terrorism as of the last few years. It would help if the GOP didn't do things like sabotage hearings on White Nationalism.

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/10/republicans-use-black-woman-jewish-man-to-gaslight-congress-on-threat-of-white-nationalism/

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#32 npiet1
Member since 2018 • 2556 Posts

Why don't people just say what it was? A terrorist incident. It's political motivated.

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#33  Edited By joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@iwilson1296 said:

@joebones5000: so what’s the message you’re going for here?, should we disarm everyone that legally owns a gun?

That's too drastic. Licensure, registration, liability insurance requirements, and mandatory yearly training would suffice.

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#34 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country. Quit looking at the tool being used and actually look at the source. The people doing this are mentally ill and have underlining issues. We need to stop trying to fix things with our emotions and fix things that are the actual problem.

Just like quit electing officials over emotional issues and start looking for officials that are looking at the source of the issues in this country. I know that stuff is boring, but rifles kill less people then people using cell phones in their vehicle and drinking and driving. No one care about this stuff because the majority of Americans do it. They only care about the stuff they don't like or understand.

Hell Shannon Watts even Twitted this trash:

I am sorry to tell her. You can not go into any store in Texas and buy a rifle without doing a required background check. Quit using false narratives to try and push your agenda. Even then laws will not prevent someone with mental health issues from killing. They will just find another means of doing it. We need to focus on that!

You can't get rid of mental illness, but you can get rid of guns.

Oh, and by the way, you can quite literally buy an assault weapon like the AR15 in any private sale out of the back of someone's car with no background check and no questions asked in Texas. All you need is a desire to own one and any idiot who is desperate enough to sell one. No questions asked.

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#35 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@Xabiss said:

Again the tool has nothing to do with this. It is the source and mental health/extremist today. Gun control will not help do anything with these issues. They will just find another means to cause harm. I will also say that Republicans are one of the many causes to the mental health crisis in this country. They defunded a ton of MHMRs and social programs in the 80s. That is one of the reasons I believe we are seeing a rise in these types of shootings.

Again everyone focuses on guns because they just don't like them period. They have never taken the time to learn about them and understand the actual laws. I was pro 2 amendment my entire adult life, but never owned a gun. I was arguing with someone about it and they called me out and I told them you know what you are right.

So I went out bought guns, rifles, and shotguns. I hit the range and took classes over all of this. I went to gun shows and found out you can't buy a gun from a vendor at the show without a background check. I have never bought a weapon were I didn't get a back ground check.

To be honest I bought so many guns over a period of time they hit me with a waiting period once. Trust me I see a ton of misinformation from people on guns all the time because they don't know anything, hell even the media does it.

The tool had nothing to do with this? Oh, I guess chainsaws have nothing to do with cutting down trees and belts have nothing to do with keeping your pants up, then. Man, why would you ever write something so stupid, seriously?

OK, assume we ban guns. The guy then walks into a walmart with baseball bat, or even a compound bow. Wonderful! I can run from that. Your average piece of plywood will stop an arrow. I can't run from a gun.

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#36  Edited By joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

Because he had a gun and he wanted to. You don't have to be "mentally ill" to kill someone. You just have to want to do it. People want to hunt and kill animals all the time. Are hunters mentally ill because they enjoy murdering innocent animals???

People with guns are the problem. Ask yourself one simple question - Who is doing all the shooting, people with guns, or people without guns? It's people with guns. What's so hard to understand about that?

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Heirren

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#37  Edited By Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@joebones5000 said:
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

Because he had a gun and he wanted to. You don't have to be "mentally ill" to kill someone. You just have to want to do it. People want to hunt and kill animals all the time. Are hunters mentally ill because they enjoy murdering innocent animals???

People with guns are the problem. Ask yourself one simple question - Who is doing all the shooting, people with guns, or people without guns? It's people with guns. What's so hard to understand about that?

The question is still why did he want to. What caused that motive? Lousy parenting? Bullied at school? Toxic media? Dont take the term mentally ill to literally. The important point is what socially built the person up to do this.

And please dont go the animal route. People hunt to survive. Isnt that what native americans did before their land was invaded?

So what you are saying is that if i were to give you a gun you would kill someone? Amazing. Lol. Cmon now.

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#38 BaelNergal
Member since 2019 • 570 Posts

@joebones5000 said:

Oh, and by the way, you can quite literally buy an assault weapon like the AR15 in any private sale out of the back of someone's car with no background check and no questions asked in Texas. All you need is a desire to own one and any idiot who is desperate enough to sell one. No questions asked.

You can do that anywhere in the United States, regardless of legality. You'd be surprised how many firearms that are legally part of collections were bought illegally.

Despite how many legal guns we have in the system, we also have a thriving underground firearms market. And a large supplier of that market is the United States Military, either through firearms given to groups overseas that are eventually smuggled back into the United States (this happens surprisingly often) or through arms dealers that buy directly from the government. Hell, if you know the right people, have a certain lack of scruples, and show a certain usefulness you can buy directly from the military yourself.

So, if you want to cut down on this problem, start with the ports and military bases. Audit the White House as well.

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#39 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@heirren said:
@joebones5000 said:
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

Because he had a gun and he wanted to. You don't have to be "mentally ill" to kill someone. You just have to want to do it. People want to hunt and kill animals all the time. Are hunters mentally ill because they enjoy murdering innocent animals???

People with guns are the problem. Ask yourself one simple question - Who is doing all the shooting, people with guns, or people without guns? It's people with guns. What's so hard to understand about that?

The question is still why did he want to. What caused that motive? Lousy parenting? Bullied at school? Toxic media? Dont take the term mentally ill to literally. The important point is what socially built the person up to do this.

And please dont go the animal route. People hunt to survive. Isnt that what native americans did before their land was invaded?

So what you are saying is that if i were to give you a gun you would kill someone? Amazing. Lol. Cmon now.

I'm not saying I would kill anyone. That was a weak straw man.

Hunters today do not hunt to survive. Hunters today hunt for sport, because it's fun. They murder animals for fun, because they want to.

It doesn't matter why he wanted to. We can't stop feelings. We can remove the tool, but we can never remove the person.

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Xabiss

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#40 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@joebones5000 said:
@Xabiss said:

This is nothing more then a mental health issue our country. Quit looking at the tool being used and actually look at the source. The people doing this are mentally ill and have underlining issues. We need to stop trying to fix things with our emotions and fix things that are the actual problem.

Just like quit electing officials over emotional issues and start looking for officials that are looking at the source of the issues in this country. I know that stuff is boring, but rifles kill less people then people using cell phones in their vehicle and drinking and driving. No one care about this stuff because the majority of Americans do it. They only care about the stuff they don't like or understand.

Hell Shannon Watts even Twitted this trash:

I am sorry to tell her. You can not go into any store in Texas and buy a rifle without doing a required background check. Quit using false narratives to try and push your agenda. Even then laws will not prevent someone with mental health issues from killing. They will just find another means of doing it. We need to focus on that!

You can't get rid of mental illness, but you can get rid of guns.

Oh, and by the way, you can quite literally buy an assault weapon like the AR15 in any private sale out of the back of someone's car with no background check and no questions asked in Texas. All you need is a desire to own one and any idiot who is desperate enough to sell one. No questions asked.

No you can't even get rid of guns. Even if you ban guns people will still make them and with the amount of guns in our country a ban will only increase the criminal activity of selling those guns.

Mental health is an issue and of course you can't get rid of it, but you can get people the help they need.

Again you are talking about something you know absolutely nothing about. When you call an AR15 an assault weapon you just show your stupidity on the subject. You do know that is only a type of Armalite Rifle right? There are tons of different types of AR rifles AR15, AR10, AR5, AR18, etc. etc. You probably think this last gunman used an AR15, but no it looked like an AK47 from the pictures. So please educate yourself on this.

Also you know rifles kill less people every year then mobile phone use in a car and drinking and driving. I don't see you with any outrage.

In 2016, there were 11,004 gun homicides (65% handguns, 6% rifle/shotgun, 30% other/unknown type)[75] that is including rifles&shotguns equals 660 deaths!

2016 Cell phone deaths and this is the only ones they can prove. Fatalities in distraction-affected crashes decreased from 3,526 in 2015 to 3,450 in 2016, or a decrease of 2.2 percent. 263 teens (age 15 to 19) were killed as a result of distracted driving in 2016.

Also notice they combined shotguns/rifles so rifle deaths are really even less.

In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.

Cell phones while driving are over 5X likely to kill and drinking and driving is 10X likely to kill over rifles. I see no outrage over this. You are more likely to be killed by a person using a cell phone in a vehicle and a drunk driver then someone using a rifle.

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Heirren

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#41 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@joebones5000 said:
@heirren said:
@joebones5000 said:
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

Because he had a gun and he wanted to. You don't have to be "mentally ill" to kill someone. You just have to want to do it. People want to hunt and kill animals all the time. Are hunters mentally ill because they enjoy murdering innocent animals???

People with guns are the problem. Ask yourself one simple question - Who is doing all the shooting, people with guns, or people without guns? It's people with guns. What's so hard to understand about that?

The question is still why did he want to. What caused that motive? Lousy parenting? Bullied at school? Toxic media? Dont take the term mentally ill to literally. The important point is what socially built the person up to do this.

And please dont go the animal route. People hunt to survive. Isnt that what native americans did before their land was invaded?

So what you are saying is that if i were to give you a gun you would kill someone? Amazing. Lol. Cmon now.

I'm not saying I would kill anyone. That was a weak straw man.

Hunters today do not hunt to survive. Hunters today hunt for sport, because it's fun. They murder animals for fun, because they want to.

It doesn't matter why he wanted to. We can't stop feelings. We can remove the tool, but we can never remove the person.

No that is your logic. Give a person a gun and they will kill someone. Fact of the matter is there are people that want guns as a means of self defense, either as a deterrent or a real means to defend oneself in a worse case scenario. No gun law is going to eliminate the black market. No gun law will stop criminals from obtaining guns.

Hunters also hunt like farmers. Gator season. Deer hunting. Its not all sport but it is often about money and plus you probably support the harm of animals in some way or another, whether you like to think so or not.

It absolutely matters why he wanted to. Thats what makes it a social issue. Was there big fights before guns? Im trying to think of some other weapons that pre date firearms but i cant think of anything.

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#42 joebones5000  Online
Member since 2016 • 2792 Posts

@heirren said:

No that is your logic. Give a person a gun and they will kill someone. Fact of the matter is there are people that want guns as a means of self defense, either as a deterrent or a real means to defend oneself in a worse case scenario. No gun law is going to eliminate the black market. No gun law will stop criminals from obtaining guns.

Hunters also hunt like farmers. Gator season. Deer hunting. Its not all sport but it is often about money and plus you probably support the harm of animals in some way or another, whether you like to think so or not.

It absolutely matters why he wanted to. Thats what makes it a social issue. Was there big fights before guns? Im trying to think of some other weapons that pre date firearms but i cant think of anything.

It doesn't matter why he wanted to, because if he had no gun he wouldn't be able to shoot anyone, despite what he wanted.

Your straw mans are weak, bruh.

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#43  Edited By BaelNergal
Member since 2019 • 570 Posts

@heirren said:

Was there big fights before guns? Im trying to think of some other weapons that pre date firearms but i cant think of anything.

Up until firearms finally replaced them, swords were a common tool of murder. So were knives. And gunpowder bombs predate firearms by quite a bit.

People also used to use a variety of tactics. A popular way to kill a large crowd of people prior to repeating firearms was to just barricade all exits and start a fire. Molotov cocktails have proven to be quite capable of accomplishing the same in a crowded area, with the bonus chance of a chance for the fire to spread around the crowd.

And there's also a recipe for mustard gas circulating on the internet. It uses materials no one would look at you weird for possessing. Well, not look at you weird for possessing one of them; the other will get you labelled a weirdo, but no one will think it's that harmful. It's amazingly easy to make, too.

Also, bioterrorism was a common medieval tactic for siege warfare. A diseased corpse, with a very virulant disease to make certain, tossed into a crowd can kill a lot of people.

Really, all firearms have done is encourage people to be lazy about mass murder.

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#44 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 35482 Posts

Another one from 8chan it seems.

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#45 Heirren
Member since 2017 • 2327 Posts

@baelnergal:

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Xabiss

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#46 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@zaryia said:
@Xabiss said:

Again the tool has nothing to do with this. It is the source and mental health/extremist today. Gun control will not help do anything with these issues. They will just find another means to cause harm. I will also say that Republicans are one of the many causes to the mental health crisis in this country. They defunded a ton of MHMRs and social programs in the 80s. That is one of the reasons I believe we are seeing a rise in these types of shootings.

Again everyone focuses on guns because they just don't like them period. They have never taken the time to learn about them and understand the actual laws. I was pro 2 amendment my entire adult life, but never owned a gun. I was arguing with someone about it and they called me out and I told them you know what you are right.

So I went out bought guns, rifles, and shotguns. I hit the range and took classes over all of this. I went to gun shows and found out you can't buy a gun from a vendor at the show without a background check. I have never bought a weapon were I didn't get a back ground check.

To be honest I bought so many guns over a period of time they hit me with a waiting period once.

1. This is false. Gun Control will help.

Review of More Than 130 Studies Provides Powerful Evidence That Gun Control Saves Lives

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives

2. We also need to improve our mental health. Correct.

3. We also need to reduce and combat extremist. Especially far right terrorism which accounts for most of this domestic terrorism as of the last few years. It would help if the GOP didn't do things like sabotage hearings on White Nationalism.

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/10/republicans-use-black-woman-jewish-man-to-gaslight-congress-on-threat-of-white-nationalism/

You always throw around your articles around here like they are complete facts. You should really be careful how you use these articles/studies. I can show you another study that shows the opposite. Have you ever been in grad school, took classes in research, and then applied that research to your thesis. You would learn a hell of a lot about how all this works. You do know studies can have bias, be wrong, among a multitude of other things.

I have in the past thrown a study at you that shows the opposite of what that first study said. You can look for it, because I know you will use some kind of excuse why it can't be used. You should also include studies how guns can also save lives. I know there are studies that go both ways on this because it is very hard to measure. The reason why is because someone doesn't have to kill someone for a gun to be an effective use of self defense. Guns in our nation do save lives.

Also have they ever measured gun control in areas that have the epics amount of gang violence we have in this nation. I do not even know how they could measure this do to fact that we have the largest amount of gang members in the world. Do you think gun laws or banning guns is going to control that mess? Do you think if we have a total ban on guns or more laws are really going to help with gang violence? Gang violence and suicide is one of the biggest causes of gun violence in our nation. Technically the mass shootings we had today only makes up a small amount of total gun deaths each year.

So you could say with mental health improvements in our nation we can help with the amount of suicides and some of the mass shootings we have. Then as a nation we really need to crack down in gangs in our inner city and that all starts at the home. That in itself would have a profound effect in the amount of gun deaths in our nation.

Finally you want gun control. So what do you think will help with all of this mess. You can say we need it but how do you control suicides (they will just use another method) and gang violence.

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#47  Edited By Nuck81
Member since 2005 • 7799 Posts

I do a lot of work in El Paso and have been to this Wal Mart personally many times.

This is the second mass shooting that has caught national attention that has touched me personally.

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#48 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@joebones5000 said:
@heirren said:

@zaryia:

So you agree its a social issue.

Do guns have ai or something? Why did this kid shoot those people: because he had a gun or because he was messed up in the head?

Because he had a gun and he wanted to. You don't have to be "mentally ill" to kill someone. You just have to want to do it. People want to hunt and kill animals all the time. Are hunters mentally ill because they enjoy murdering innocent animals???

People with guns are the problem. Ask yourself one simple question - Who is doing all the shooting, people with guns, or people without guns? It's people with guns. What's so hard to understand about that?

That is some dumb logic you used. If guns are gone and someone wants to murder they will just use another tool. Hell you are more likely to get killed with a hammer then a rifle. Technically speaking I always laugh at people who scream ban rifles when rifles technically do not even kill that many people each year. In the grand scheme of things rifles really do not even kill that many people each year.

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Xabiss

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#49 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts

@zaryia I would also like to add do you think the glamorization of these shooters in the media is part of the problem? I would love to see if that would also help with these mass shooting because some of these people are seeking attention.

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Xabiss

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#50 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 2917 Posts
@Serraph105 said:

Texas, a very red, gun loving state where "everyone has a gun" had a mass shooting in a store that famously sells guns, and 15 people still died. The shooter was not one of the people who died.

Dude again an idiotic statement. Not everyone in Texas has a permit to carry a gun and there was a mass shooting in Texas where someone did stop a gunman with a gun, Sutherland Springs. Also there was a black gentleman that helped save people and he used his gun. You failed to mention him.

Also in 2017 only 1.2 million people had a concealed to carry license in Texas with a population of 28.7 million people so right at 5% so stop with your false narrative bullshit.

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/