Does the US need a Post-Trump Truth and Reconciliation Commission?

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ComeOnMan

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#1 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

Robert Reich, Labor Secretary under Clinton, is calling for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission after Trump is out. Sorry I'm not tech savvy enough to link in his twitter feed, or thread, or whatever. But I copy/pasted the text of his tweet below.

When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.

So, what do you think? Especially you virulent anti-Trumpers. Is this something you would like to see happen? And do you want it to stop with just the list in Reich's tweet? Or should ordinary people be encouraged to identify anyone with a Trump yard sign, or seen wearing a MAGA hat, so they can be brought before the commission to confess their sin.

I would certainly not support this, but I am fully prepared to see it happen, given the absolute hatred and vitriol towards Trump and his supporters that has been whipped up.

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Eoten

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#2 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts

Politics trying to control the flow of information and make sure nothing that doesn't fit the narrative is allowed to come out. Yeah, sounds like a great idea, I think the Nazi's and KGB had stuff like that. Persecuting supports of a political opponent sound right up there with great ideas. That certainly wouldn't result in a "hot" AF civil war.

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mattbbpl

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#3 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19202 Posts

We just need people to stop being stupid. People have made themselves intentionally stupid, and they've made it a matter of pride.

This really isn't hard. You learn how to vet sources and identify misinformation in grade school. While everyone will make an occasional mistake, dismissing education as indoctrination, reputable sources as propaganda, and just outright ignoring science is not something to aspire to.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#4  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 10547 Posts

We will definitely need a program to address the trauma experienced by all those in the border camps.

I'm not sure if we'll need something like what's described there, if we have the government teaching "truth," it will be seen as propaganda. If there is any truth needed it should come out as a result of investigations and reports for the people to decide.

If there is any reconciliation, it should be a result of people coming together to move forward together. As for comfort to those who have been harmed, I'm not sure what you mean exactly. We have to own the situation that we created. This is our country and we have the power to decide what happens, and not everything is always going to go the way everyone wants. If we want change then we have to make it.

Is it really 4 years later and people can't accept that Trump became president because we put him there? If you didn't agree with the system we put in place, the officials we elected, the policies we supported or didn't fight, the people who abstained from voting because they didn't like the choice, the times we didn't call out injustice or reprehensible actions by others or stand by someone else who did, there are some hard truths to face by everyone because nobody is innocent and we can't always go to a support group meeting for everything in life.

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Chutebox

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#5 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 46916 Posts

The hell is this?

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ComeOnMan

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#6 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

We just need people to stop being stupid. People have made themselves intentionally stupid, and they've made it a matter of pride.

This really isn't hard. You learn how to vet sources and identify misinformation in grade school. While everyone will make an occasional mistake, dismissing education as indoctrination, reputable sources as propaganda, and just outright ignoring science is not something to aspire to.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

I don't disagree with anything you have said here, but I don't see how you are addressing the subject of the discussion.

Do you agree with Robert Reich?

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LJS9502_basic

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#7 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

We just need people to stop being stupid. People have made themselves intentionally stupid, and they've made it a matter of pride.

This really isn't hard. You learn how to vet sources and identify misinformation in grade school. While everyone will make an occasional mistake, dismissing education as indoctrination, reputable sources as propaganda, and just outright ignoring science is not something to aspire to.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

Good luck with that.

We need a better education system.

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mattbbpl

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#8 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19202 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

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LJS9502_basic

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#9 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

Perhaps but as they don't have a good foundation to form opinions it certainly is an education issue. Political Science/Government should be taught. Maybe if they understand the history and Constitution they wouldn't vote for trump and his like.

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mattbbpl

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#10 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19202 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

Perhaps but as they don't have a good foundation to form opinions it certainly is an education issue. Political Science/Government should be taught. Maybe if they understand the history and Constitution they wouldn't vote for trump and his like.

Don't they teach history and the Constitution? History was required for me every year. I went through 3 classes exclusively about the US constitution in addition to smaller curriculums in other classes. One was required for everyone in junior high. Another was required for everyone in high school. Another was part of the core curriculum at university. What else should the schools be doing? Was your experience significantly different?

I'm seeing people go through that curriculum, being given all the information, and then just choosing to ignore it because some bonehead on Youtube or some charlatan on Fox told them to, and damn it, it feels great to be told what you want to hear!

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Eoten

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#11 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

Perhaps but as they don't have a good foundation to form opinions it certainly is an education issue. Political Science/Government should be taught. Maybe if they understand the history and Constitution they wouldn't vote for trump and his like.

Yeah, I wouldn't be talking about the constitution. Whenever the side that claims it's a living document that needs to be redefined and reinterpreted because they cannot get a law they want past it, it's probably a safe bet they're not all for it. Even RBG said it was outdated. So, I don't think people on your side have any credibility on the constitution, and no high ground to "re-educate" people on what you think it means.

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LJS9502_basic

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#12 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@eoten said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

Perhaps but as they don't have a good foundation to form opinions it certainly is an education issue. Political Science/Government should be taught. Maybe if they understand the history and Constitution they wouldn't vote for trump and his like.

Yeah, I wouldn't be talking about the constitution. Whenever the side that claims it's a living document that needs to be redefined and reinterpreted because they cannot get a law they want past it, it's probably a safe bet they're not all for it. Even RBG said it was outdated. So, I don't think people on your side have any credibility on the constitution, and no high ground to "re-educate" people on what you think it means.

FYI some of the founding fathers felt that way. And they weren't wrong.

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LJS9502_basic

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#13 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Don't they teach history and the Constitution? History was required for me every year. I went through 3 classes exclusively about the US constitution in addition to smaller curriculums in other classes. One was required for everyone in junior high. Another was required for everyone in high school. Another was part of the core curriculum at university. What else should the schools be doing? Was your experience significantly different?

I'm seeing people go through that curriculum, being given all the information, and then just choosing to ignore it because some bonehead on Youtube or some charlatan on Fox told them to, and damn it, it feels great to be told what you want to hear!

Not around here they don't. They have a history class but it's not in depth and doesn't really address those issues.

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mattbbpl

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#14 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19202 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

Don't they teach history and the Constitution? History was required for me every year. I went through 3 classes exclusively about the US constitution in addition to smaller curriculums in other classes. One was required for everyone in junior high. Another was required for everyone in high school. Another was part of the core curriculum at university. What else should the schools be doing? Was your experience significantly different?

I'm seeing people go through that curriculum, being given all the information, and then just choosing to ignore it because some bonehead on Youtube or some charlatan on Fox told them to, and damn it, it feels great to be told what you want to hear!

Not around here they don't. They have a history class but it's not in depth and doesn't really address those issues.

Damn. Where is "here"? We should have a word with your board of education :-P

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Vaasman

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#15 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14685 Posts

I am eager to see what the final tally of the white house coke budget was for this administration.

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MirkoS77

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#16  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@comeonman said:

Robert Reich, Labor Secretary under Clinton, is calling for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission after Trump is out. Sorry I'm not tech savvy enough to link in his twitter feed, or thread, or whatever. But I copy/pasted the text of his tweet below.

When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.

So, what do you think? Especially you virulent anti-Trumpers. Is this something you would like to see happen? And do you want it to stop with just the list in Reich's tweet? Or should ordinary people be encouraged to identify anyone with a Trump yard sign, or seen wearing a MAGA hat, so they can be brought before the commission to confess their sin.

I would certainly not support this, but I am fully prepared to see it happen, given the absolute hatred and vitriol towards Trump and his supporters that has been whipped up.

I'd like to see this in full context, it's a bit hard to understand what Reich is speaking about here.

A "truth and reconciliation commission?"

...Seriously?? What exactly is that? Like some sort of tribunal for Trump supporters? Look, I disagree, oftentimes (especially in the era of Trump) vehemently with other peoples' decisions in who they support, but do I think they should be somehow blacklisted after he is out of office? **** no. This is something I detest about the Left, their assumption that they hold such the high ground to do shit like this. To go to these individual's houses, to disrupt them in public, to assault them simply by their vote. I am ardently opposed to such things.

This is laughably absurd. Reich is a moron in advocating this.

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HEATHEN75

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#17 HEATHEN75
Member since 2018 • 1283 Posts

The US needs an enema after Trump.

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Serraph105

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#18 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35045 Posts

This is weird and I don't really know what it would accomplish. My guess is it would accomplish nothing.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#19  Edited By HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11751 Posts

If the goal is to bring around people who believe in nonsense, this will not work. When people have their world view challenged they almost always double down in the face of irrefutable evidence. It's a form of 'sunk cost' or 'in for a penny, in for a pound' type of reasoning. These people believe it and it is a part of who they are. They'll probably take it to the grave. This problem will last for years and years and won't be fixed until a new generation replaces an old one.

What needs to happen is to continue to push education on vetting sources, logical thinking, rationalism, etc. That's always easier said than done though. Part of US culture, the portion where we belittle evidence and higher education as indoctrination, is rotten and putrid to it's core. That piece needs to die and it will take decades to probably have it sunset.

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Eoten

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#20 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts

And these people call those on the right "fascists." Yet, here they are thinking we should have some kind of government program to re-educate people who do not believe a pre-approved narrative, or think in a pre-approved manner. Of course, since the agency who would be in charge of such a thing would almost certainly be under the authority of the executive branch, the next republican in office could use that against you.

But, I doubt anyone supporting this ever thought that far ahead. Yeah, there's a reason that first amendment exists to protect free speech, freedom of expression, free exercise of religion, and free press which protects the outlets calling out the bullshit the legacy media refuses to. Hence the "LMFAO" I have to give when I hear people who support this idea, accuse anybody else of not understanding the constitution.

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Eoten

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#21  Edited By Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts
@MirkoS77 said:
@comeonman said:

Robert Reich, Labor Secretary under Clinton, is calling for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission after Trump is out. Sorry I'm not tech savvy enough to link in his twitter feed, or thread, or whatever. But I copy/pasted the text of his tweet below.

When this nightmare is over, we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It would erase Trump’s lies, comfort those who have been harmed by his hatefulness, and name every official, politician, executive, and media mogul whose greed and cowardice enabled this catastrophe.

So, what do you think? Especially you virulent anti-Trumpers. Is this something you would like to see happen? And do you want it to stop with just the list in Reich's tweet? Or should ordinary people be encouraged to identify anyone with a Trump yard sign, or seen wearing a MAGA hat, so they can be brought before the commission to confess their sin.

I would certainly not support this, but I am fully prepared to see it happen, given the absolute hatred and vitriol towards Trump and his supporters that has been whipped up.

I'd like to see this in full context, it's a bit hard to understand what Reich is speaking about here.

A "truth and reconciliation commission?"

...Seriously?? What exactly is that? Like some sort of tribunal for Trump supporters? Look, I disagree, oftentimes (especially in the era of Trump) vehemently with other peoples' decisions in who they support, but do I think they should be somehow blacklisted after he is out of office? **** no. This is something I detest about the Left, their assumption that they hold such the high ground to do shit like this. To go to these individual's houses, to disrupt them in public, to assault them simply by their vote. I am ardently opposed to such things.

This is laughably absurd. Reich is a moron in advocating this.

Now you know the kind of bullcrap that has pushed people, including myself, towards the right. When you really listen to some of these people, like Reich, you realize they epitomize fascism.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#22  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: You were always right wing and you know it. You are also trying to use one person next to nobody knows to bash an entire political movement.

This and having to listen to conservatives bash liberals as some America hating baby eaters, rig elections, lie, blame us for what they did, limit power of the opposition while expanding their own, silencing dissent. Is it any wonder why I got pushed to the left? And trends show most young people have as well. Hillary won all age groups under 40, and that won’t change.

The natural progression of conservatism is fascism and that’s what we are seeing now. FYI, the left can’t be fascist as that’s a right wing ideology.

Also, it doesn’t the right opposes all programs that help people and tell women what they can do with their bodies.

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judaspete

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#23  Edited By judaspete
Member since 2005 • 4183 Posts

No, we should not do this.

@eoten said:

Politics trying to control the flow of information and make sure nothing that doesn't fit the narrative is allowed to come out. Yeah, sounds like a great idea, I think the Nazi's and KGB had stuff like that. Persecuting supports of a political opponent sound right up there with great ideas. That certainly wouldn't result in a "hot" AF civil war.

So did we during the Cold War. The Department of Un-American Activities.

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judaspete

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#24 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 4183 Posts
@mattbbpl said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

Don't they teach history and the Constitution? History was required for me every year. I went through 3 classes exclusively about the US constitution in addition to smaller curriculums in other classes. One was required for everyone in junior high. Another was required for everyone in high school. Another was part of the core curriculum at university. What else should the schools be doing? Was your experience significantly different?

I'm seeing people go through that curriculum, being given all the information, and then just choosing to ignore it because some bonehead on Youtube or some charlatan on Fox told them to, and damn it, it feels great to be told what you want to hear!

Not around here they don't. They have a history class but it's not in depth and doesn't really address those issues.

Damn. Where is "here"? We should have a word with your board of education :-P

My education was basically like @mattbbpl. US education has a lot of local control, which is great if you live in an area with smart people and lots of money, but not every area is like that. I had a friend in college from Georgia who said she never learned about Charles Darwin in school, and the Civil War was referred to as "The War of Northern Aggression".

Obama tried to make national standards more consistent with Common Core, but Republicans said he was basically Hitler for it.

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MirkoS77

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#25 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@eoten said:
@MirkoS77 said:

I'd like to see this in full context, it's a bit hard to understand what Reich is speaking about here.

A "truth and reconciliation commission?"

...Seriously?? What exactly is that? Like some sort of tribunal for Trump supporters? Look, I disagree, oftentimes (especially in the era of Trump) vehemently with other peoples' decisions in who they support, but do I think they should be somehow blacklisted after he is out of office? **** no. This is something I detest about the Left, their assumption that they hold such the high ground to do shit like this. To go to these individual's houses, to disrupt them in public, to assault them simply by their vote. I am ardently opposed to such things.

This is laughably absurd. Reich is a moron in advocating this.

Now you know the kind of bullcrap that has pushed people, including myself, towards the right. When you really listen to some of these people, like Reich, you realize they epitomize fascism.

I fully understand why people have been pushed away.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#26  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@judaspete: Pushed by the right, the left hated that witch hunt. And the propaganda the right pushes in our schools is more reasons I got pushed to the left. Why the right hates science and logic is beyond me.

@MirkoS77: Aren’t you a conservative as well? And the fact is the right does this crap RIGHT NOW! They think they are superior to everyone and if you aren’t conservative you hate America. It’s not liberals harassing governors at their homes, that’s conservatives. They bully and harass anybody who opposes them to the point of actual attempts to kill people. Wake up!

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MirkoS77

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#27 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@judaspete: Pushed by the right, the left hated that witch hunt. And the propaganda the right pushes in our schools is more reasons I got pushed to the left. Why the right hates science and logic is beyond me.

@MirkoS77: Aren’t you a conservative as well? And the fact is the right does this crap RIGHT NOW! They think they are superior to everyone and if you aren’t conservative you hate America. It’s not liberals harassing governors at their homes, that’s conservatives. They bully and harass anybody who opposes them to the point of actual attempts to kill people. Wake up!

Easy there hoss, I'm an independent, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to some of the Left's tactics. I am not a fan of the Left, while I believe they hold the right ideals, I am very opposed to their methodology and find much of it self-defeating. Both sides hold some responsibility.

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LJS9502_basic

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#28 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@judaspete said:
@mattbbpl said:

Damn. Where is "here"? We should have a word with your board of education :-P

My education was basically like @mattbbpl. US education has a lot of local control, which is great if you live in an area with smart people and lots of money, but not every area is like that. I had a friend in college from Georgia who said she never learned about Charles Darwin in school, and the Civil War was referred to as "The War of Northern Aggression".

Obama tried to make national standards more consistent with Common Core, but Republicans said he was basically Hitler for it.

I honestly believe Republicans don't want an educated populace.

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#29 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@MirkoS77: Why did you ignore what I said about the right?

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Eoten

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#30 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@judaspete: Pushed by the right, the left hated that witch hunt. And the propaganda the right pushes in our schools is more reasons I got pushed to the left. Why the right hates science and logic is beyond me.

@MirkoS77: Aren’t you a conservative as well? And the fact is the right does this crap RIGHT NOW! They think they are superior to everyone and if you aren’t conservative you hate America. It’s not liberals harassing governors at their homes, that’s conservatives. They bully and harass anybody who opposes them to the point of actual attempts to kill people. Wake up!

Really? Want to talk about bullying and harassment? Because the Portland rioters surrounded the mayors home and demanded he resign. They caused damage to many properties in the area and even tried to set it on fire. Want to talk about schools? How about trying to shut down every single speaker on a college campus that doesn't agree with the world view of the left? It's funny when I hear people accuse those on the right of hating science and logic, but think people can actually choose to switch genders.

You're a hypocrite who uses his imaginations on what people on the right do or believe to justify bigotry, intolerance, and violence which is fairly one sided right now. Americans are sick of it. That is why someone like Trump got elected, it's why he'll get re-elected, and why there will never be enough people with your radicalized world view in this country (which I doubt you even live in) to make any of Mr. 3rd Reich's dreams of political censorship come to fruition.

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#31 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@judaspete said:
@mattbbpl said:

Damn. Where is "here"? We should have a word with your board of education :-P

My education was basically like @mattbbpl. US education has a lot of local control, which is great if you live in an area with smart people and lots of money, but not every area is like that. I had a friend in college from Georgia who said she never learned about Charles Darwin in school, and the Civil War was referred to as "The War of Northern Aggression".

Obama tried to make national standards more consistent with Common Core, but Republicans said he was basically Hitler for it.

I honestly believe Republicans don't want an educated populace.

You may want to look into common core mathematics and the hostility towards school choice before accusing anybody of not wanting an educated populace.

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LJS9502_basic

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#32 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@eoten said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

I honestly believe Republicans don't want an educated populace.

You may want to look into common core mathematics and the hostility towards school choice before accusing anybody of not wanting an educated populace.

Nah. I'm right.

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#33  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: Here we go again, more victimization and personal attacks from a Trump supporter.

Notice how he turns everything around to fit his narrative while giving the right a complete pass.

Attacking Portland “rioters” for doing what the right did in Michigan.

Damage to properties that the right did to.

Shutting down speakers when the right does that as well.

Can’t switch genders, learn what a gender is.

I’m a hypocrite? The whole comment above was hypocrisy and the hate come from the right as well.

You speak for all Americans?

I don’t agree with you so I’m not American? You realize you just proved me right?

Oh, so you assume I agree with him because of my political leanings?

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Eoten

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#34 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1993 Posts

My point is proven.

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mrbojangles25

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#35 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 48515 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@LJS9502_basic: @comeonman: It directly addresses it. It is unnecessary. People want to be stupid and would continue being so regardless of this.

Lj, our education system system isn't to blame for this. People believe in this BS because they WANT to believe it.

Perhaps but as they don't have a good foundation to form opinions it certainly is an education issue. Political Science/Government should be taught. Maybe if they understand the history and Constitution they wouldn't vote for trump and his like.

Don't they teach history and the Constitution? History was required for me every year. I went through 3 classes exclusively about the US constitution in addition to smaller curriculums in other classes. One was required for everyone in junior high. Another was required for everyone in high school. Another was part of the core curriculum at university. What else should the schools be doing? Was your experience significantly different?

I'm seeing people go through that curriculum, being given all the information, and then just choosing to ignore it because some bonehead on Youtube or some charlatan on Fox told them to, and damn it, it feels great to be told what you want to hear!

Yes, and I don't think it is an education issue. Granted, our K-12 system is TERRIBLE, but still...I don't think it is educational. It's not even political. It's emotional and fantastical.

All the repressed regressives finally get an outlet, and they will support it for as long as they can no matter how bad their mouthpiece get's.

It defies logic, basic human decency, and all that stuff...but screw it, you know ,they finally have their time to "shine" and they won't back down.

I fully expect humanity in general to actually be better than it was before. America is going through it's Rumspringa, and we can only hope people come back to their senses.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#36 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: There we have it folks. My point was just proven. People like you are why I rejected the right.

Sad you think calling people not American for not agreeing with you is somehow ok. Everything I said was correct.

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MirkoS77

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#37 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@thegreatchomp: because I don’t much care for whataboutisms. That doesn’t mean I don’t agree it happens everywhere, but I don’t feel compelled to make note of it when it is irrelevant to my response to the topic.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#38  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@MirkoS77: It’s not whataboutisms, it is making sure all examples from both sides get called out. Ignoring one side while attacking the other is unfair to both sides. It’s only whataboutism if you use the other to discount one, which I am not doing but eoten is.

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#39  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@thegreatchomp: I’m not ignoring one side, I’m simply not addressing it because it would add nothing to what I wish to say pertinent to the topic.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#40 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@MirkoS77: I didn’t say you were, it was in general not just you.

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#41  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 2924 Posts

If we have a truth commission lets look at all the truth. The Obama admiration role in trying to overturn the 2016 election, The attempted coup from people working in the Federal government. Hillary Clintons role in the Russian connection leading to a two year investigation. Joe Biden's kickbacks. We need to look at everything.

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#42 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

I can see from a lot of the responses here, that I did not do a very good job explaining what a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) is. I figured everyone was aware of how this is supposed to work. My bad.

A TRC is not about educating people about truth, or how to find truth. I am linking to Wikipedia for reference.

LINK

The most well known example of a TRC is from post-apartheid South Africa. It was a mechanism, or forum in which victims of apartheid could tell their story, and perpetrators could confess and request amnesty.

So, what Mr. Reich is calling for is an official body that will give those who think they have been victimized by the Trump presidency a forum to tell their stories, and those who were the perpetrators and/or enablers of the evil Trump to seek forgiveness, even amnesty.

Now that I have done a better job of explaining what is being proposed by Mr. Reich, I ask again, do you support this idea? Do you think it is needed? Do you think it will bring about reconciliation?

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#43  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171588 Posts

@JimB said:

If we have a truth commission lets look at all the truth. The Obama admiration role in trying to overturn the 2016 election, The attempted coup from people working in the Federal government. Hillary Clintons role in the Russian connection leading to a two year investigation. Joe Biden's kickbacks. We need to look at everything.

Umm.............dude.

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#44 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

@mattbbpl:

I apologize for not doing a better job of explaining what a Truth and Reconciliation Commission is about. Please see my last post, #42, and see if your response vis a vie education still applies.

Thanks

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#45 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

@MirkoS77:

I apologize for not doing a better job of explaining what a Truth and Reconciliation Commission is about.

Please see my last post, #42 for a better explanation of what I believe Mr. Reich is proposing.

Thanks

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#46  Edited By judaspete
Member since 2005 • 4183 Posts

@eoten said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

I honestly believe Republicans don't want an educated populace.

You may want to look into common core mathematics and the hostility towards school choice before accusing anybody of not wanting an educated populace.

I am not against vouchers. There are some situations where they could be a tool to help get kids into better schools. This would have to be done carefully though, or it will just turn into another situation with taxpayer money funding lobbyists. Common Core math though? Seriously? I don't want to derail this thread, so let me break this down in the simplest terms I can. We can create a new topic if you want to go more in depth.

Old math focuses on the product. Teach the student the fastest possible way to get the answer so they can fill in all the bubbles on the multiple choice test before time runs out.

Common Core focuses on the process. Get the student to understand how the numbers interact with each other. It takes longer to reach the answer, parents get confused because it's not how they learned it, but it gives the child a better grasp of how numbers work.

Old math: 7+8=?

Common Core: _+_=15 How many 2 number combinations can you think of that add up to 15?

Answer honestly, which of the above problems is the child going to get more out of?

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#47  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 15767 Posts

@comeonman said:

I can see from a lot of the responses here, that I did not do a very good job explaining what a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) is. I figured everyone was aware of how this is supposed to work. My bad.

A TRC is not about educating people about truth, or how to find truth. I am linking to Wikipedia for reference.

LINK

The most well known example of a TRC is from post-apartheid South Africa. It was a mechanism, or forum in which victims of apartheid could tell their story, and perpetrators could confess and request amnesty.

So, what Mr. Reich is calling for is an official body that will give those who think they have been victimized by the Trump presidency a forum to tell their stories, and those who were the perpetrators and/or enablers of the evil Trump to seek forgiveness, even amnesty.

Now that I have done a better job of explaining what is being proposed by Mr. Reich, I ask again, do you support this idea? Do you think it is needed? Do you think it will bring about reconciliation?

Thanks for the elaboration.

Still no. For this to apply, you really need to establish a fairly undeniable grave injustice perpetrated upon a populace, not simply ideological distinction. This is something that was used to address the aftermath of apartheid that lasted for many decades, for crying out loud. Sorry, I don't buy that America, even under Trump, qualifies anywhere near that. Not racially insensitive tweets and policies, that, as much as I disagree with (such as those directed towards the LGBT community), I don't believe stem from hatred as much as I do ignorance and apathy.

As much as I vehemently despise Trump and his administration, we're a far cry from "gross human rights violations" as the Wiki article puts it. At best I'd argue that the civil rights of certain groups are being marginalized and are under threat. What are Trump supporters going to be held to account for, much less request amnesty about? Backing a complete moron and buffoon? Being selfish? A voting populace being gullible and naïve in supporting someone so obviously inept and transparent is something I mainly lay the responsibility at the feet of stupidity, ignorance, again gullibility and naivete, and most of all partisan fervor.....none of which are a crime.

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#48 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7148 Posts

Honestly, I think it's nothing but partisan posturing if you don't deal with the rampant, even habitual, dishonesty in your politics. If it fixates on Trump only, what's the point? He's a cobra in a pit full of rattlesnakes. Pretending like you're concerned about dangerous snakes is purely for show if you address the dangerous snake problem with an anti-cobra initiative.

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#49 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@JimB: Easy. Everything you said was bullshit. There, done.

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#50 ComeOnMan
Member since 2017 • 508 Posts

@MirkoS77:

Very well said. You know I do not share your strong dislike for Trump, but I appreciate that you can differentiate between real depravation of individual rights and freedoms, and the discomfort caused by a leader you despise on a policy and personality basis.